Dulli-qarneyn ike peeling an Onion, kolba shaad kii-hore ka sii yar ii soo xidho. Yesterday, Ethiopia waxaa dhulka loo keenay in dad kale lagu cabudhiyo in the name of reviving the Somali nation, and when that failed miserably (precisely because other learned how to cope with it - namely playing stooge to Ethiopia), the talk is about Peace in Puntland. Saad u sii yaraanayso dhinaca maskaxda, yaad nigis ilmo-yar la ekaan doontaa! By the way, Allpuntland, Carmooyin, garoweonline and multitude of Tribe sites are blowing their covers by running hairbrained stories about divison among Ethiopian leaders, Calling Nuur Cade names (one wrote Col. Nuur instead of PM Nuur). Why is this significant? because, before now, the cover was "we are supporting an internationally back Government". Now, I guess you all understand what it is. For those who were in doubt! The problem with Yusufites is that they are a backward cult, dreaming about death and destruction for the attainment of mere titles and loots.

Originally posted by Emperor: ^Odwayne, AT was wrong on the money no one can doubt that, however I don't want to make our chit-chat or exchange about him, thus I leave it there and move on... Emperor, I have seen your perception of me in your post that preceed this one, but I would have liked if you could look at the issue. And speaking of personality, it is not me who is blindly following his tribeman; it is not me who is changing positions with every sun that rises. Was it not you, who a month or so ago was saying your love for TFG is ended? Kolba dhan ha igaga iman sidii lax wareertaye, meel aan kuugu soo hagaago. As to my political positions, which Oodweyne seems to doubt, it is not complicated. 1- To start with, I am against the secession of the North from the rest of the country. Here, I agree with Oodweyne on all the factors that led to this unfortunate situation, but I differ on the way forward. This is no fallacy. I don't think separation is the remedy for the ills of yesterday. 2- I oppose Pseudo-nationalists and "unionists" who will not blink to kill and massacre entire communities to realise their goals. That is wrong even when one is convinced of the sacredness of the unity of the country. I will rather see a Somaliland which is independent, than see a resumption of killing of fellow somali's again. It is not worth it! 3- I stand by all the comments I made yesterday as to who should take the bulk of the blame in Somalia.

Protocol, you said "I don't understand how you are blaming the ***** clan, abdullahi yusuf will always have the support of puntland and his clan, that is true but he's never been interested in tribal hegemony . Now if you said you are blaming the '*****' tribe, that's understandble." A sick mind always thinks of sick ideas. Now, if I were talking about the clan you talk about, I bet I am capable of coming out and saying so. I would have used the euphemistic tag Puntland. I was not referring to that clan, but to all the *****-clan, and I think I have said Siyaad Barre, and the refugees from the *****-land (if that is what you think I am hiding) were the ones who did most of the atrocities in the north. The Punties were victims themselves then. But, when it comes to the horrendous massacres in Muqdisho, the Punties will come to the play. I was in Nairobi few months back, and met a lot of somali's of all clans. Nearly 95% of the guys from Puntland I met over dinners, over hotel lobbies, sanctioned the atrocities in Muqdisho. So, I have the right to think it was a collective project, although initiated by one greedy man. Back home In Garowe and Bossasso, people may have different ideas. But, throughout the histroy of the wrold, it was the elities who were counted as the mouth-piece of the communities they purport to represent. In this regard, we talk about Israel collectively, and not Ariel Sharon as a person when talking about the oppression of Palestinians. By the way, nearly 100 elders from Puntland were hosted by the TFG in Mogdishu at the height of the massacres (to the dismay of the local), but have you heard a single declaration of disassociating themselves from the deeds of Ina Yusuf? Let us be blunt and frank here!! You said: "I don't mind being blamed for trying to revive the somali republic." This mind set was what I was trying to warn against. War Somalinimada nina xil gaar ah kama saara ee yaan dadka la xigsan. Typical Amhara- chauvinists in Ethiopia oppress the Oromos and other nationalities with same mantra of being the 'Only ethiopians'. You also said: "There were more ***** like the OG fighting against the TFG than ***** tribe. This has nothing to do with tribes, but more about ideology." True! but, the allignments among the uninvolved Somali's are based on calculations made by each clan of its interst. This does not include the TFG and the Muqaawamah, where I believe personal and group intersts are more dominant than tribal considerations. You went on: "The TFG and abdullahi yusuf always represent somali's who are interested in peace, government and rule of law well at least at the beginning. While the al shabab represent somali's extremist, former looters turned shiecks, ignorance and lack of education etc." BIG LIE! and a serious manefistation of dishonesty! And then this comes as the parting shot, and it revealed your true colours: Naxar Nugaleed, I'm not interested in babysitting savages and secessionists anymore, I say let them cannibalize each other and let's move forward and work on our regions. We have oil, a long coastline, resourceful and intelligent citizen in punt-land. What do we need Mogadishu and the south for? " Puntland has the potential to be the dubai of east of africa if the leadership was competent and not interested in engaging the south." Savanges and secessionists?????????? Maca salaama! [ November 21, 2008, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

Adigu Ottawa'daa da iska dhex joog. Odaygii ku keenay se inuu 4 SNM soo dilay ma war baad u haysaa? Don't worry, point, Puntland will not seceed. If it does so, it will mark the start of one of the biggest humanitarian tragedy. Hunger will reign. Meesha waxba mayaalaan, and it cannot survive.

war gabayga unbaan kuu sheegayee mushkilo ma jiddo!

Che, you said "The north's issue is with the entire south who sat idly while fellow citizens were massacred. If there is specific allegation against any group, the northern can explicitly say so, and we will go from there." It was not! It was NOT! Let us hear from the horses' mouth then. Away Jacaylbaro? They blame a clan for it, and you know it. Second, dealing with historical injustices is usually a good basis for rebuilding countries. So, while I am not saying it must be the way I said, the idea is not bad. Let the others feel secure as a start, and later when suspicions are done away with, let Meritocracy reign. You misquoted me on the Bay/bakool. It is not a sequence, it must happen regardless. If I wasn't clear, let me do it again. On the reconciliation, there is no shame if one becomes the pioneer in taking blames. Let the D start! Xinn; heede waayahaye, few days drama is not gamechanger, laakin nor do eternal journey which never rests as is your caravan! War ileen tan oo kale!

Saa unbaad ii daba taagantahay Faarax-badawoow! Igu kaadi Karaneey anaa imid kobtaadiye,,,, ayuu yidhi ninkii reer Fiiqeedka ahaa ee Jigjiga yimid.

Che, meesha dee academic and hypthetical solutions ka maynaan hadleyn. If so, I will tell you let Prof. Abdi Ismaacil Samater be elected President. Or let Sheekh Mustafa Sh. Ismaacil rule the nation.

Deputy has very valid points. I think his analysis is better than mine here and more general. But I still will think the share of blame is not distributed equally among all clans. And when it comes to the people of the North, they have not been part to this reciprocal mayhem. Dadkaas waa lagu gafay baan qabaa! Mana aha nidaam dawladeed oo kaliya, ee qabiil ahaana waa loola diriray. Xinn, awoowe, anna meeshi lagugu weeraraba inaan difaac ku dhinto, adna kolkaad iin yar ii heshid durban idaba qaadatid halkaad iga asturi laheyd, ma xeerbaa? Peace Caravan'ka meel inaga dhig isaga'oo bal TFGmaxay ku danbeyn bay kula tahay? Ma TFG'da ciidanka ilaalada Nuur cadde ku aamini la' cid aan xaafada aheyn yaad lee dahay way sii socon?

Ibtisam, waxan xaaraanta ah maxaad u dhaawaneysaa?

Well, precisely it is because what you said is true about hate and contempt, why I think soultion should come through the Islamic banner. on the clan issue, Kuwa laga cabanayo ayey u taal inay boogtii bogsiiyaan. 1- Elders of the ***** clan should declare that the genocide against the people of the North, perpetrated in their name, was wrong and apologise for the crimes. 2- The same elders should call upon their southern brothers to embrace peace, and should dispel any fears of a return to the old days if leadership comes from them. They should unequivocally declare that the post of President (with executive powers) should come from the people of Mogdisho. Once this happens, I am thinking it will set of a proces where others reciprocate and the people of Bay and Bakool will be asked for their forgiveness by the clans who starved them. Even if it is a wishful thinking, the mere gesture will serve as a symbolic move towards reconciliation and will open the arena for positive engagement. On the political side, the Alshabab and the courts must take over the country, and once they bring law and order back (for no other body can do this), the next phase of mobilising intellectuals, Culuma, moderates among them, and the Islamic world to reign on them must be started. If Hassen D. Aweys, and Turki can be lobbyed to allow free elections and broader political participation by Intellectuals (not seen as too secular, It will nice. I believe it can be done. Mukhatr wax qabtana la waayi maayo. Inta kalena, madrasooyin iyo iskuulaa loo kala diri. Koley Xassen Turki wiilkiisa anigaa aqaan oo aabahay waan qaban hadiii liiska argagixisada laga saaro ayuu leeyahay! [ November 21, 2008, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

He is old-style, he doesn't understand that Libya or Sudan or Uganda cannot help him. He should have focused on prostrating at the feet of Jandayi Fraser or Siyoum Mesfin, as he has been doing the whole of his life. Pathetic senile!

Che, What they should do is stop the nonesense of dreaming about Somalia under their sole grip. I am talking to the elites of this clan, who do not hide their contempt to their Southern brothers, and their hate for their northern ones.

Wiif-wiif ta maqal caawaan seexan karayaaye,,, Waa mahad alle maanta waa ayaan,,,,,,,,,,, Guul! Guulllllllll. Meeshi ehelu-naarkii ku kala tag dheh Nuune!

Yes, the USC was equally responsible. But, I don't know why you added SNM to the list. The clan fights that followed after the secession declaration surely wasn't different than similar ones occuring daily between other neighbouring clans elsewhere. This is not to exonerate anyone from blame, but surely at the macro level, those who led Somalia to abyss are those who started cronyism, looting and subjugation from the get-go. We can say they were individuals, and that they belonged to all sides, but I think they were predominantly from one clan. That is for sure.

I have to say he is telling the truth for once, and I must admire his survival instincts. But, I have the feeling it is the last kick of the dying traitor. Let him live long enough to mess up the false TFG. Ha dumiyee daa! Xabshidaa tidhaa "Ishoohin ba-shooh!", meaning Qodoxba qodoxbaa lagu saaraa! Edit Aw Dhubad; Maya lagama yaabo. Doofaar abidkii madaahiro.

Malika, It is good to be an idealist and a puritan one for that, but it hardly solves problems on the ground. I too would like to believe so, and certainly I am talking about perceptions. But, in all fairness, that what Siyaad did in the North and what yey is doing in the South is not confined to the coffins of 'the dictator' is evident from the cheery support the same evil men are getting from the not-so-representative but otherwise indicative sample of Solers we have here. It is not by concidence or fluke that Duke, Emperor, Hoosqarneyn and the like are ardent supporters of Somalia's occupation. It is not by quirk of fate that Gedo boys here will refuse to hear bad words about Jalle Siyaad, and would still post in SOL to honour '21 ka October' coronation. It is not by fluke you refuse to accept SOl and Sanaag boys were the main tortuers in the defunct regime. I am not calling for a new round of vendatta, and trading balme and hatred. I am calling for us to know our undoings and to try to outgrow our denial mentality as Somali's. It is a message to all, not necessarily to specific clans. Covering up dirt in your backyard won't stop the bad smell in your house. I strongly believe the clan that has dominated Somali politics from independence days to date, strengthened by massive influx of Somaligalbeed refugees from my home areas have worked to undermine all what Somalinimo stands for in their pursuit of power and priviledges. It is disingineous to say it was only Siyaad or a dictator. I meet all my uncles who were Generals and Colonels in foriegn land (legally speaking) and not one is repentent of what they did to fellow Somali's in the North or South. Given the chance, they will do it again. So, what proof - beyond political correctedness and the need to look balanced and civil in thinking for the consumption of the naive spectators, do you have good Malika, that we haven't been supporting our own dictators in deed, and thoughts??

There is no political vice here, her Majesty Malika. It is a truth that needs to be told. The clan I belong to in the 4.5 formation is the cancer of Somalia's unity. I know the resentment againt it in the North and in the South. I cannot pretend it is all because others are bad. That same tribe has dominated Somalia's economy and politics for too long, and some of the resentment is justified. I am saying so not in malice, but in all honesty, to bring a better somali nation togather. Finger-wagging at Somaliland, or messing the South will not bring the unity we all need. Thousands of the same clan were brtually murdered in Mogdishu in retribution killngs and I am not downplaying that too. Let us admit mistakes were made on all sides and move ahead. Hopefully, others will follow suit.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: Hello Folks , Firstly , To :- Mr. AT But, then, I thought, before I should ask that question, whether indeed you may have get on the wrong side of the bed this morning; which by that act alone, could account for, to your political disorientation, since your new take of the dilemma of Somalia is not, what is likely are freely dispense the local “Tolka” tee-joints ( with their colloquial slang of : Aga wajigaa gubay.. ); Regards, Oodweyne. Dear oodka, My political beliefs and convictions are all well too known to the Tolka and all others who met me. Of course, I do not wish to advertise them without being asked. But, I have always oppossed, even as a child, to the killings in the North, and the hypocrisy of Yeyisters.

By the law of assigning responsibility to the HEAD of the government, this time Abdullahu Yusuf, it could be seen as a ***** on ***** violence! Abdi Qaybdiid, Mahamed Dheere, Ali Gheedi and all are stooges but worked under Yey. (only that with the majority of Gedo and Jubboyinka people firmly opposed to the TFG, it will be Puntland on ***** this time). This is the perception. And Perceptions matter in somali politics. Remember Cali samatar, Ina dafle, Adan Gabyow and other Generals from Banaadir were more responsible than Siyad in the massacres of Hargiesa, Berbera and elsewhere. And yet, it is the big man who gets the blame. So, why the exception this time around? I believe Yey's bidding is not a tribal one; as much as he is a tribalist, he is also a selfish dictator. I beleive it is for his skin that he lit war in Puntland, and now in Mogdishu. I believe the vast majority of the people of puntland are not in this fight, but it is true the bulk of the false somali army doing Ethiopia's billing in the South are Puntland militias. Let's face it. Overall, I believe if Somalia breaks up into small fiefdoms, the blame will squarely fall on the shoulders of the D's more than anyone else. Forget about 'anagu Hargeisa markii la gubayey kumaanaan jirin, or anaguna imika kuwa xamar gubaya kuma jirno' claims of sub-clans of this clan, but those who made people weep in the North were the D's, those who are making people weep in the south are *****'s now. Waxaan hoos yaacaya ee Ethiopian'ku ku kabayaan ha ii tirinina. So, dadka sidan haloo dhaamo. Qaranimo Somaliyeed baan rabnaana waa la leeyahay, wixii qaran ku dumi lahaa oo ah 'wax walba anagaa leh, anagu aanu u sareeyno, kuwaasi waa secessionst'e waa in la cabudhiyo, kuwanina waa anarchists'e waa in la gubo' waa la wadaa. Wa bilaahi tawfiik!! [ November 21, 2008, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

The difference between Somaliland and Puntland's secession motives is that for the former it was more of a necessity than choice at the time of the unilateral declaration of independence. It was also largely based on understandable level of bitterness after the havoc wrecked on the Northerners by the tribalist former regime, in collaboration with virtually all Somali clans in the republic, and even refugees from my home areas armed to cleanse the indigeious natives of the land. For the latter, the motives were always based on interst, avarice, and most importantly ana-waa-ikan Jealousy. In fact,by the logic of the culture of assigning responsibility to the head of whichever government of the day to the misdeeds of the entire gov't (which makes Siyaad barre liable), Abdullahu Yusuf's killings in Mogadishu(far worse than Siyaad's in Hargeisa) can be viewed as a genocide by Puntland on the people of Banaadir. I rest my case.

The writer himself is preparing the ground for another mistake with his post-mortem on the courts. The Americans will now say let us empower the moderates and finish off the extremists. That heralds the start of a new phase of violence. The lesson should be to leave the Somali's solve their problem, whichever way they want. The Shabab's will triumph for a while, impose law and order, infringe on on personal rights, but that is a passing cloud. It is my hope Somali's of all walks of life will prevail upon the leaders of Alshabab to moderate, and to allow genunine political process that will lead for the formation of a transitional government which will will run by technocrats, but will not be a secular one so to speak.

Do you want me to say the tempatations to look unique? Grandiosity? or hypocracy? Well,those can come to mind, but it also may be CONVICTION to what he believes is right. I think this last one is the motive of the man I simply call "Pegasus" - the Sole owner of the P-caravan.

I am here for you. But soon should leave for lunch too. Chicken anigu ma cuno, typical pastoralist ayaan ahay.

^ That is called lack of consistency. Trademark Arsenal thing. It is a sign of a team which is average, but has the potential to surprise big teams. Not the otherway round.