There is no people who have united to the man to do something. It is just natural there will always be those who go on different path than what most of their brothers desire for. It is a human nature, not specific to any race or group. If Norf is talking about unity among Arabs, the overwhelming majority have the same stance on Plaestine.

The last time I asked if that process will be allowed, the response I got was "that process has been followed in 1991 and there is no need to link it to stability in Somalia. People like Jama M. Qaalib and others who follow his ideals are traitors and therefore according to the Somaliland constitution (my foot!!) They cannot come and lobby for union. That is 'treason'". You must know a Lander is a lander if he beleives in Secession, according to this school of thought. Actually, Xidigo, me and others are called names by the 'genuine' landers. Iyagu waa biyo-raacis.

Then I got it wrong. The other factor worked this time. Somali's elect someone either if he is from the tribe or he is dishing out money. Waa nin gacan furan.

Originally posted by nuune: JB, kuwa baabuurta saaran ma schooleey baa baabuurtu waa tagaasida LA (Las Anod).

All Somali's are close relatives. Put in context here, I meant, waa jilibka Cabdullahi Yusuf. I am a bit too candid. Not good, but I know Somali politics and I am guessing. I am not sure inuu yahay iyo in kale. Gabbito MS arimihii?

Allah yarxam, nin fiican buu ahaa. raggi asalka ahaa. I think he was also kind of a poet!!not sure.

The politicians from the clan that is usually the vice-president in Puntland hawshoodu waa 'ila liqaa'. Waa sii socod, soo socod!! The same VP might end up in the 'Goloha Shacabka' ee Somaliland after six months. By the way, NG, I think Faroole is a close relative of Yey. That makes sense.

Ma anaan garan! Waa qiyaasay walaahi.

lool@hadaa ma adaa ku DHIX (not dhex) koray!

Emperor Odaygu waa qoloma? Iskadaa warka badan. I have the feeling he is from one of the powerful clans. And he may have got hand from Cadde (who if he realises he is losing) might want another naafo (useless) guy to take over, si loogu darsado; and may tell his friends, hadaad aragataan inaan liico, kan sakaraadka ah ugu shuba.

Poker Ngonge is a born-again somalilander. Dhulka kuma korinne, waa looga waramay, and he is wild with the pride of a proselyte.

As long as facts are manufactured in NG' lab, there is no reason why we should engage in objective debate. BTW, I know you are a born-again. But did the hardcore tolka tell you the dehumanised 'Gabooye' people are the large in the parts of the SL where the 'puritans' live. Do you know other clans (including that of the Sheikh who was once beaten in custody) are not small. Do you some people from the 'xaq-layaasha' dalka, will vote against secession for so many reasons, come a free refrendum? All this is to tell you that it is not true to say the majority of the people in the North support secession. But I don't want to go that way. Let me agree with you, for the sake of argument, that indeed Tolka is the majority. Is it not true that in terms of land mass, the areas inhabited by other clans is either equal or larger than that of the tolka? The fact is what Duke said, as much as it pains me to quote anything from that charlatan. IF SECESSIONSTS SECEED FROM SOMALIA, THEN OTHERS WILL SECEED FROM SECESSIONLAND. It is as simple as that.

Waa ninka ugu laan dheeraysanaa among the Musharixiin, I presume.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooool@the rural man. I agree 100%.

Originally posted by LayZie G.: The day syria's demands are met by yahuuda is the day terrorists reported to be sitting in a damascus hotel and giving phone interviews to AP, drinking At&T's cool aid or a choice of a faanto will be over.(He too will go back to his mistress aka axmaaro near the border) gabahdan waxbaaa ku kaa kacsan. Mistress maxaa baray.

Nur There is a group called The Union of Western Somali Liberation Front -an Islamic group with roots to Al-Itixaad Al Islaamiya. They are opertaing in the Somaligalbeed region, and the fighters are mainly coming from the same clan as that of the ONLF. Why is not others joining????? Surely Somaligalbeed is not divisive!! I fully agree with your general conclusion, but I think people tend not to see that the name is the least divider when it comes to the issue of self-determination in Somaligalbeed. Maxaa reerihii kale haysta oo u diiday inay arkaan dulmiga iyo dhulka la qaadanayo????ONLF's secetraian policy is one problem. Haye. Whatelse? Why not join the UWSLF? Or form a new one? Bal arintaa aad ha loo eego.

Awdalites were not part of the SNM. Big lie. It is not by happenstance that the only man who joined (and maybe few others) was named Abdirahman TOL-WAA. Awdalities are not pro-session. Where are SOL Awdal contingent. Even Riyaale is acting a movie. By the way, I am only speculating when I say that even the 'I' clan wants secssion. Without a fair process where believers in the alternative arrangements such as Jama M. Qaalib and many others are not allowed to freely campaign for union, and in an atmosphere of hysteria and to'laayey ma nimakii shalay baan ku laabana (oo haweenka lagaga oohinayo), thiniking even that clan is for secsion is a difficult proposition.

Originally posted by *Ibtisam*: So A&T until you and Mr. Mansoor can throw a plan on the table that does not involve drafting young 14year old boys to become brainwashed and addicted to human blood and killing, you can get off your high horse. Your so called leader, is doing more damage in the future by influencing and whole new generation whose only knowledge and interaction with others involves no more than pointing a gun and killing those who oppose you. This is wrong Ibti. It is wrong and ask for forgiveness. I can see where you get this kind of thinking though. As I said you are prone to western propaganda. It is understandable. But Sheikh Muktar and the kids you talk about are fighting for the dignity of all Somali's. They don't deserve this. Do you know when there is a war, there are pitfalls as well. Why can't you give the benefit ofthe doubt to the resistance fighters? They maybe making few mistakes, but they are the only genuine Somali's -free of clan- and with some somali pride left in them. Do you think Adan Madoobe and Nuur Cadde (who are summond to Addis Ababa) are bringing peace to Somalia? Ceeb Tacaal! We have a plan. But do you have the foresight and patience to wait until it is delivered????? Read history and you will seemost countries have opted for bloody wars to get lasting peace. Including the British and the Americans- the ones you trust. So, two or twenty years is not of much essence. What matters is that once we achieve peace it is should be one brought by willing Somali's and one which lasts. Now to the plan: Phase 1: End Ethiopia's occupation and political meddling for once and all. Phase II: Reconcile all Somali's. Here comes where the peace caravan and other efforts begin to be valid. WE will not have phase II without passing through Phase I. Phase III: Form a functional government led by technocrats and learned religious people. Abu Mansoor will have to go to the Mosque when he finishes his phase. Believe me, he will. Let me confide to you he has recently spoken to Somali Scholars in the Diaspora (cali khalif galaydh and others by phone) and have said " warkolkuu wadanku xoroobo idinka unbaa hagiye, balse halganka waa in la taageera". Let us give them the same benfeit of doubt you are giving to Ould Cabdalla and David Miliband.

Xinn Ma walaai adeer mar kasta. Maybe you find me defending somaliland at times. I do so when some fools try to comapre what they have achieved with the state in the East -puntland: the one creatd just out of envy and to say "Anna waa ikan". On the union matter, I have always been firm on my ground. "Somalidu waa mid qudha, mid kala sooc soocantiyo,soohdimo loo kala dhigayo malaha waxay kala sitaan!!!!" That drives why I may sound unreasonable to advocate for the secession of Somaligalbeed from Ethiopia and at the time object to Somaliland's secession. But, there is a flow in the analogy. While British Somaliland consented to the marraige with Italian Somaliland, we never were asked what we think when Ethiopia took over our land. As to the diverse clans in Somaligalbeed, its my belief they differ on what to call the region and who to join, but they all agree that they cannot live with Ethiopia. In any case, we can settle for a refrendum and will accept the result. An internationally sponssored Sponser. PEOPLE in Gaashamo and Harrtisheik are not REFUGEES. It is their land. They may not be fans of ONLF, but believe me they are not for union with Ethiopia. According to my vision, there will be no problem once we seceed from Ethiopia. For what I forsee is joining of Somalia, not to form another tiny 'republic'. That will solve the divergent clan intersts. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE CALLED SOMALIANS. The only question will be which province Gashamo will go under, and which province Dollo Addo will fall under. AfricaOwen Apart from this infatuation with independence, you cannot give good reasons why you cannot live with the rest of the Somali's. None of the reasons given for the secession of the said clan is good enough. Plus, did it occurred to you that in 100 years, the demography and geography will change? I know the oppressed "GABOOYE" community in Togdheer, Hargeisa and Saxil are pro- union as well. And their numbers are not few. Not to mention other clans who live in the same areas. Will you exterminate them??????? REDsea What was the option for other people in 1991? Bullyed by SNM, they could only be silent and expect the cloud to pass. The Garaad hebel was there is weak too. Ilka xanaf and Buuba are in Baidoa. Borama was chosen for Symbolism. It does not alter the substance that Awdalites are not pro-secession. Will Awadal people in this forum confirm this fact, please????????

yaad af-carabi wuu waalan yahay u qarinaysaa eeyaa Xinn?

You shoudldn't say I am right. I shouldn't do the reverse as well. Simply, knowing the age helps me why we don't see things the same way.

The care-taker husband is Somaliland, the real one Somalia; lest you want to engage in ambushing semantics. No hate mate. Simple facts. EDIT- The reference to kilil5 is an illegitimate analogy. Let us not detained by the fact that that issue involves somali's and Ethiopians; not fellow somali's who are legally still one country. Who are the majority of Somaliland? a clan. Do they need secession? Yes. So what? let them take their land and decide. I am against those who call for a forceful reunification. I am simply saying I know other clans are not pro-secession. And I have no agenda, that is what my conscience tells me. AfricaOwn asked so what? So, good luck with the clan and the quest for independence. You also understand that without Awdal, and SSC, the founding rationale for secession becomes meek and weak. So don't pretend you can bully around. Wixii shalay aad ka cabanyasay maanta ummad ha ku sameyn.

Trying it was wrong. That is where I want to differ with Xinn. It was wrong for Sheikh Sharif to break up the unified Somali resistance and to give a wrong signal to Ethiopia that the liberation fighters are desperate. It was wrong for him to allow the factionalisation of the Maxkamadaha. It was wrong for him not to heed the advice of many and to jump into a caravan whose destination he didn't know. It was wrong for Xinn not to see the big picture, which is that with Ethiopia's meddling Somali's could never come togather. It was wrong for Xinn not to realise that for Ethiopia, Somalia is a battleground where it is fighting Eritrea, and hence it will not allow the installation of any group it doesn't control. It IS Wrong for XInn to imply that Nuur cadde and Adan Madoobe can make autonomus decisions by their own and worse to assume that they have the power to eneter into deals not sanctioned in Addis. All these facts were overlooked by Xinn simply becuase he belived in the goodness of someone- sheikh Shariif. Hence, it is wrong to claim it was worth a try; when the fact us what Shariif did had left profound division in the islamist fighters and in the general public. You cannot just hide these facts and move on as nothing happened. That is even more annoying. Of course, Ibtisam shouldn't know all of this.

Thank you. It is not coincidence that you and Ibtisam think alike,then. Not that what you think is inferior to what I think, but it explains why we cannot understand each other.

Ayoub with all that wisodm of yours, do you judge the popularity of an issue in Somalia by the number of crowds????? Thousand used to listen to General Morgan and Gani in Hargeisa. Were they all supporters? Anyway, I bet if an anti-SL politician from Awdal calls for a rally equal number or more will march into the streets. The fact is, however primordial it sounds, the issue of secession in Northern Somalia is being persued by a Single clan. Cohorts can always be found. Ilka xanaf and Buuba are in Baidoa but we know their constituency don't back their agenda. And please it does not need scientifc research or statistical methods to know the stance of clans in Somalia. Let us be honest. I know Somaliland inside out.