Ngonge, Did you hear what Alexi Lalas ( former USA player) said about England? He said, "... and of course, we can always benefit from the fact that England always believe they are better than they actually are". I share his sentiments and think England will struggle. The way Slovinia played against Russia, they will not be pushovers. Algeria is even confident of an upset. By the way, I think in typical style to the hyped expectations of colombia's 1994 team, the following teams will disappoint: - England - Italy - Spain - Ivory coast The follwing teams will cause major upsets: - Cameroun - Serbia - Chile - Switzerland - Japan or South Korea

Originally posted by *Ibtisam: AT&T See what I mean (I bet you don't because you did not read my last post)- now you are onto my supposed more sophesticated and articulate way for defending SL. :rolleyes: Hal ka ku xidh this sheeko- If I may extend your misery dear Ibtisam, what did you said then that I misunderstood?

Dear Ibtisam, Why you always come back and refute the re-phrasing of what you actually said or implied, is because you purposefully chose to be ambigious even when your attempt at ambiguity invokes the ageold adage of "ninkii-dhuumanaayee-dhabarku-muuqdoow". Hence, what you said above about Egypt's role and rather the lack of it, was a subtle defence of the secession agenda which you admittedly presented in a much more sophesticated and articulate way than our resident mujaahid JB does. There was no room for misreading what you meant. Marx Which populace? Because you think on clan lines as evidenced by your earlier allusions about which business I should mind, let me ask you: is it the Awadal populace? the Sool and Sanaag populace? the Triangle populace? And what is the use of quoting refrendums which are not recongnised by anyone oustide those who organised it? Is it not the same as a student writing an exam and marking it as well?

Uztaad is right about the role Egypt's stance played in thwarting balkanization. Allh-ya-cizak! JB, I understand what you mean by 'me retreating'. No, I am not retreating from my stance on Faroole and puntland. But that doesn't mean I also buy the nonesense of falsifying history when I well know the facts of the SNM truimph. Also, I speak on issues and takes sides based on what I think of the issue at hand. It is not in me to ensure my arguments here are in conformity with another stance I have elsewhere when the issues discussed are different. I can be beneveolent and hostile to Somaliland at different times. So too with Puntland. That doesn't mean there is inconsistency. It means I deal with issues on a case-by-case basis, not on a blanket side-taking. Ibtisam, Sadly, when it comes down to the verdict and judgement of between a 20+ diaspora girl and a 65+ veteran intellectual of Professor Buuba's stature, I tend to agree with the latter without blinking an eye. Have you listened to him last week when he set out how the SNM was founded (he was among those who founded it) and why it is futile to seek secession? Or you are rather content with the delusional "recongnition-on-the corner" talk of JB and Jaaliyadaa Somaliland ee London? One would have hoped the multiculural environment you live in and your academic exposure would make you a bit wider in scope. Marx, You are officially joining the exclusive statistics club of Cowke's 80%. Do you know how that refrendum you talk about was organised? Do you know it wasn't even the decision of the SNM majority to go for UDI? It was a decision of the "Calan-cas" clique of the SNM who forced their agenda's by threatening and bullying. The main leaders of the clan-cas were Muuse Biixi, Maxamed Kaahin, Colonel Dahir and few others.

Mr. Somalia, I must say finally you are talking a lot of sense and most of the issues you raised are right. Like, that Somalilander commanders were part of the army people who massacred Puntlanders (SSDF-related). The guy who is loudest in decrying Siyaad Barre's crimes against Waqooyi, Colonel Maxamed Kaahin (of the extremist calan-cas clique of the SNM) was leading the somali army in the puntland massacres. But, I disagree with you that "dad qabiil loo laayey majirin in the North" and "dawladda cid waliba way ku jirtay" argument. As to be expected almost everywhere, traitors can join a system but it was obvious that "the clan that is pro-secession in the North" was systematically persecuted by the tribal Siyaad Regime (which was also a D-clan government in the real sense). Dadka la laayey eed leedahay qaxooti ayey ahaayeena, laftigoodu salaad taraawiix ah kumay jirin'e they were part of the oppression. That is the true history. Convienient or not! Marka, how do we address hadii la yidhaa it is two ways: 1- Waa in si dawladnimo loo xaliyaa: which I support 2- waaa in si qabiil loo xaliyaa: which is not a good way to do it but can be used to complement the State's national reconcilliation efforts.

Don't spook me with 'you were part of 88-91 atrocities'. My views on that are crystal clear! Now, don't you think we know the SNM phenomena inside out? Were they not on the verge of surrendering when the South fell to Aideed? War de, runta waa la ogyahay. The SNM would not have taken Hargeisa if Siyaad didn't leave Muqdisho. Also, the SNM were busy in hit- and -run attacks but never threatened the establishment in the north save for when they stormed Hargiesa in 88 and were brutally bombed. Adeer, the story of the SNM is not about 1887. It is about late 1980s. Raggi la mirqaami jiray SNM ta ayaad rabtaa inaad uga dhigto fire-breathing commandos who descended from the sky! Having said that, this is not to belittle their legitimate resistance. The issue is not about whether Egypt or IGAD supports mean anything. It was you who was waving right under our nose that IGAD is delivering something. When you are presented with a counter-facts, you say why didn't they help Somalia!! That is a different issue, again! Marx, speaking of whether it is right I get preocuupied with others when 'my people are in limbo', I think it is a valid point but one which should not be brought here when JB is smoked out. You can open another thread for that issue. By the way, I notice how you say "your people" meaning the O-community, and yet again talk of why Somaligalbeed is wider than the O. It depends on how wide one bigger one wnats to think of himseld. For me, the plight of the O-people in Somaligalbeed is just one issue of the bigger Somali problem. Hence, I feel I have a stake in Somaliland and Puntland as a somali as a beliver in Somaliweyn. Just because you have narrowed youself to the size of an infant's underwear doesn't mean I should follow suit.

"We defeated so and so and we are moving ..." is a sort of slogan I would expect from mujahid Muuse Bixi not from a learned person. Anyway, I don't like the certainity there. I can simply say you didn't defeat anyone. The Siyad regime was crumping anyway! But that is another matter. If Aideed didn't storm Muqdisho, chances are the SNM would have been stuck with the 'refugee militias' for another century. Let us be honest here! JB, qaabkaad u hadlaysaa waa qaabka dadka qiiraysan ee saaxibul-mirqaanka ah. Never be too much inward-looking. Kolkaad leedahay, we deafeat all miyaadan xishooneyn? who was arming SNM? not Ethiopia? Ibtisam, what you wrote there is pure nonesense. Of course, recogintion matters for Somaliland and it is not self-given. That is why Egypt and IGAD are entities that matter. When you speak of SL also you speak as if "somaliland" people are all for independence. It is one clan and even the unionists in that clan didnot get the chance to promote their cause. SL is there because Somalia is in shambles. The day you have a proper government in Somalia, AWdal, Sool and Sanaag will be part of it in a minute and the debate will rage in the triangle. It is only part of your TOLKA who want indepence Ibtisam. Let us not confuse people with facades.

Oodweyne, So it is the US and EU who are supposedly changing their stance on Somaliland? Then, why not be clear about it and go around IGAD? Well, what I know is that there are no official indications from both entities of a change of position. The UN too seems very much in support of Somalia's unity. Unless of course the business community from Somaliland ay si hoose u wada hadlin OBAMA oo ayna wax hoose isla ogeyn!

Oodweyne, Saaxiib, bal noo iftiimi how IGAD is going to help out for those of us who don't believe in miracles and conspiracy theories? Ethiopia - with it own separatist issue in Somaligalbeed knows it is dangerous to push for Somaliland's independence. In fact, that is what Meles confided to some senior Somali region officials on multiple occassion. Kenya- ditto, plus that some key decision-makers ( from NE) are against the idea Eritrea- we know they official position, which SL protested against. Sudan - supports the TFG Somalia- supports itslef as a member! Djibouti - Gheele is clear on this matter Kolka, ma anigoon ogayn ayaa Ghana iyo South Africa lagu soo daray si controband ah IGAD. I mean, fadhi-ku-dirika rer waqooyigu labadaa dal ayey odhan jireen waxbaan isla wadnaa. EDIT- Oodweyne, So it is the US and EU who are supposedly changing their stance on Somaliland? Then, why not be clear about it and go around IGAD? Well, what I know is that there are no official indications from both entities of a change of position. The UN too seems very much in support of Somalia's unity. Unless of course the business community from Somaliland ay si hoose u wada hadlin OBAMA oo ayna wax hoose isla ogeyn!

IGAD is led by Ethiopia and Kenya, none of who want to support somaliland's secession. Plus Somalia is also part of the IGAD. Djibouti and Eritrea also. I don't know which of these IGAD's you are relying on. It is funny how you make us believe IGAD is composed of Honduras, Peru and Fiji?

Egypt is a true friend of the Somali People. By the way, IGAD is in Somaliland as part of the process of resusciating Somalia. But I don't want to dumpen the spirits of credulous Jacaylbaro who jumps with anticipation everytime men with different hair and eye-colour passes by Hargeisa. No one can deny him the right of delusion.

Originally posted by Mr. Somalia: Laakin waxaa xaqiiqa-ah, dadkaa la laayey oo faraha badnaa oo ku xabaalan waqooyi galbeed iney ahaayeen A&T dadku uu ku abtirsado. Maantana nimankii saas u galey ayuu ii faaninayaa oo ileyyahay waa dad wanaagsan. Haba wanaagsanadaanee, ma yihiin dad Soomalinimada ogal ???--Mar hadaynan Soomaalinimada ogaleen-- oo ey cuqdad baas oo qabiil ku qufulantahay-- waxay ila muuqataa A&T hadalkiisu inuu yahay hal bacaad lagu lissay. Wabillahi Tawfiiq! For indeed one must not lie about the facts on the basis of convinience and to win arguments, I shall speak it. Also, it is not to self-incriminate to talk the evil deeds of your kinfolks. That the O-community have actively participated in the massacre and oppression of the northern brothers, as part of Jalle Siyaad's reign of terror, is indisputeable. If some of them were later killed as a reaction by SNM, that is not going to overshadow the crimes done in the name of the community I hail from. For that, my position has always been that the O-community needs to be brave enough to admit their historical wrong-doings and MUST publicly apologise and compensate (if possible) for all the damage they inflicted on the brothers from the North. It may seem foolish for you, it may make me look feeble-minded, but nothing advances the cause of Somalinimo than being frank about past misdeeds! As far as the Fa.qa.sh label is concerned, indeed, dear Mr. Somalia, you and me are not part of this, but if one is talking about collective responsiblity, we can fall under that catgory for we have supported the displacement and murder of fellow somali's at one point in our lives ( and you still support it). So, to the extent I don't appreciate the endless victim-playing of the Northerners and the criminal polluting of the minds of the younger generation, they are justified in not forgetting the immense sacrifices they paid to get back their freedom and safety. When national reconcilliation and healing process starts for real will be the time when we shall demand of them to start a new beginning and to base the birth of Somalinimo under more positive light. But all in all, I am not speaking for my clans, but what I know is that the Somali people in the North (what you call Somalidiid) are the most generous, good-hearted and friendly people among the Somali's. What little foible we see in them - by way of excessive tribal mindset, could be because they are very open about it than other communities. And when I say them and we, I know I am generalising. So, the new rapprochment with Mr. Big Fence is based on shared attitudes about some issues and mainly the damage done to Somalinimo by some regions who think they are promoting Somalinimo but who are doing the greatest harm to this vision in practice. This doesn't mean I buy the enclave-mentality of my friend, Mr. Big Fence.

Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: Here is Nate Silver's probability index. Who is this Nate and what is his methods? From what I see, this seems a ranking of teams based on past glory. What one expects from a real expert is to evaluate them on current form. If he thinks Nigeria is better than Denamrk (although they are in different groups, he is wrong. SOuth Korea is in a better shape than Nigeria too.

Sherban, I think they are the dark horses and will beat England. Perhaps you didn't notice novices like FU-fu, who take their sides from the media while lifting weights and never minding watching the teams paly, mocking my audacity.

with all due respect Dear bro Norf,we are not discussing the English Premier League and hence your opinion will not be taken as weighty.

collecting Zakaat to finance the next suicide bomber who will murder Sheikh Mustafa Ismaacil and Sheikh Umal this time round. Pathetic kufaar!

Tuujiye, People should not base their predictions on name or past achievements. Nigeria is not a very strong team from what I saw in their qualifying campaign. Cameroun has Achille Omana, a wonderful midfielder, but if SONG plays as the center back, they are out. England struggled against Trinidad and Tobago, and have difficulty whenever playing a technically good side. Algeria should give them some match. EDIT- loooool@Kim nuking South Africa I think the group will work out as follows: -brazil will beat NK -Ivory coast draws with Portugal - Ivory coast beats NK - Brazil beats Ivory coast - the communists hold Portugal - Brazil will draw with portugal (already qualified after winning the first two games, they will field an experimental 11). Brazil 7 points Ivory coast 4 points Portugal 3 points NK 1 point

Dear BOB, Which theory says Ivory Coast should beat Brazil? I think they have good players but not with the quality of brazillans. I think Brazil will beat them thoroughly, but I have the feeling they may be able to surprise Portugal. But they will conceed penalties, no question about that! Dunga has already come out and said Brazil is not in the group of Death. He sounds confident.

Wardheernews got its fact upright and the editorial is insightful. I saw Xuddeddi disputing some of the facts, like the fact the Puntland is indeed defeated politically and militarily on the Sool and Sanaag issue (which he belittles as a border skirmish yet we know it defines much more than that!). But one wouldn't expect a fair appraisal from some people who have long resolved to stick to the official lines of their admin. I wouldn't be surprised if Puntland Diaspora Forum reacts with yet another Press Release as a rebuttal.

Only a man of manichean simplicity as you are blighted with could not have noticed the growing understanding between two alikes, who took part in the art of war in all its dignity and indignity. And indeed, the camel-boys of burco and dhagaxbuur realize that they have been the best of friends in some seasons and the worst of enemies at other times. In which case, the rules of engagement were unequivocal and unambiguous when in peace and when at war. Hence, the temporal alliance building between me and the northern guru, in the shape of Mr. Big-fence follows in the patterns and precedents of the forefathers who sired us. Contrast this to the relations with Puntland. I, for one, cannot say much about the difficulties and duplicities many speak of when dealing with the inhabitants of this enclave. But, the literature is full of stories attesting to the pervasiveness of dual personality, machinations and immense self-centrism. In short, the northern guys can offer peace and war; their counterparts in the East are like treacherous in-laws who are part of you by blood as well as bondage, yet scheme day and night to dismantle your own house. It is very difficult to deal with such insidious quandary.

In a way, that the first response comes from the spiteful Mr. Somalia, who can not tell his toes from his elbow, does justice to the post and to the notion of virginity in the intellectual circles of the vociferous PL community in SOL. Yet, it will be only fair to address his accusations. Those arrested in bugland months ago were members of a political organisation. I defended them because they are ONLF. At no time, did I defend clansmen solely because they are from the community I supposedly come from. I didn't defend Xassen Turki, I didn't defend Ina-Cumar Jees, nor would I defend the terrorist who blew himself up ( if he is what you say he is). On the contrary, I am yet to see a Puntlander of the Presidential clan (for not all puntlanders are equal indeed in the political set-up of that adobe of shame)say negative things about the clowns the region is perpetually producing in the Somali political and diplomatic scenes. The Omer Jamal saga is a recent reminder. As to the good Oodweyne's solidarity in here, I guess he did balance his feelings very well; on the one-hand, acknowledging the truth in what I said; on the other-hand, not wanting to put his weight behind me in a duel where it is manifestly clear a seasoned deflowerer is pitted against virgins.

Resplendent in the unfailing Mudug temerity, intellectual virgins from Puntland have been on the loose for sometime in the cyber world. Perhaps one should have prepared himself to this eventuality as the early signs were there: of grade-eleven-complete young boys with eyeglasses and the bag of the glasses firmly tucked at the right end of their brown belts, grinning widely as their compatriots call them ‘doktor Abdiwali- merely because the subject is a cousin of a pharmacist or 'injineer' Jamac, solely because the said man helped the municipality in clearing some roads for construction. With the advent of technology anyone with the patience and time to enter a username and a corresponding password has become an analyst, a commentator, or a cyber intellectual who can dispense ideas or impart knowledge. Such breeds are from everywhere, but nowhere is their numbers greater than in Puntland. And the shamelessness about them is staggering. They have to come after me, for decrying the injustices of their administration, on a day of immense sorrow for the Somali race. The virgins desperately tried to link the horror inflicted by anti-Somali ‘Islamic’ mafia to a clan. They shamelessly tried to defend the actions of illegal renditions of Somali youth from a secular Somali rebel movement by trying to depict them as potential suicide bombers. The man who sanctions the utterances of the intellectual virgins from Puntland in SOL, Xinnfanin, himself the architect of the rebuttal Press Release from the clannish Puntland Diaspora Forum was here last night, conveniently discarding the strategically demure posture he is known for; of ‘let us wait for evidence’ façade, in support of the allusions made about the bomber. It is yet another example of the serious dearth of honesty in this creature. The key message I want to send to the likes of Duke, Cowke, Moonlight, Who-me, and their sponsors is that the ONLF is a secular organisation with no history of suicide bombings. In fact, they have been on the receiving end of the Alshaytaan movement who only few weeks back were claiming they are fighting ONLF. They have been sparing on their meal time to fight the unprincipled Islamists at a time they were also fighting the Ethiopian colonialists. The actions of Faroole were not right yesterday and will not be right today because a misguided member of a terrorist organisation struck and killed the crème of Somali intellectuals. What can save some face for Puntland is not to clutch at every seemingly helpful incident, even when it is tragic, to justify the indefensible actions of their adminstartion. It is making some serious soul-searching about their positions vis-à-vis the rest of the Somali’s. It is to go back to their archaic constitution which bars Vice presidents from succeeding outgoing presidents solely because they are not from the right clan. It is time they amend their constitution to allow for unchecked political ascendancy to others, to stop harming the interest of somaliweyn, which they falsely claim to be championing for. But, in the short term, this practice of multiplication of roles where members of the PL admin who perpetrated atrocities could also write press releases as members of a bogus Diaspora Forum is distasteful and must be stopped. It doesn’t help the confidence of those who view Puntland with suspicion on account of long-held belief about duplicitous history in that part of Somalia.

South Korea are fast and very energetic. The lethargic Nigerians will not cope. They struggled to beat Kenya.

Hamse, My understanding was the men arrested by Puntland were from ONLF. And we know there is no sucide bombings done by ONLF. Now, why conveniently mix issues on account of someone belonging to a clan? Who is looking bad here? me or you? I talked about Puntland because it is an entity. talk about ONLF because it is an entity. But you are going far in trying to bring individual clan issues into the picture. And I am not obliged to answer your top drawer drivels anymore. Seriously, isku xishoo. Reerkiinaa wax qarxieyey markaad leedahay miyaadan xishoonayn? Go attack Xassen Turki and let us see if I defend him?? My position regarding Alshabab and Xisbul Islam has been clear from the days Ethiopia left somalia. Markaa if you fell aggrieved by my attacks on Puntland, wait for another suitable time and a mistake by ONLF to have a go at me. But, STOP this nonesense. Edit- brother Maadeey, I have no doubt the criminal who killed Professor Ibrahim Xassen Cadow and innocent school boys will go to hell. If he isn't, I see no value in believing anyone will go to hell at all.

Originally posted by General Duke: [ Group H: Spain, Switzerland, Honduras, Chile Group G: Brazil, North Korea, Ivory Coast, Portugal (New Group of Death) Group F: Italy, Paraguay, New Zealand, Slovakia Group E: Netherlands, Denmark, Japan, Cameroon Group D: Germany, Australia, Serbia Ghana (Group of Death?) Group C: ENGLAND, United States, Algeria, Slovenia Group B: Argentina, Nigeria, South Korea, Greece Group A: South Africa, Mexico, Uruguay, France Teams to qualify from the Group stages: Group H: Spain and Chile (Spain will struggle though) - it could be Switzerland and Chile as well Group G: Brazil and Ivory Coast Group F: Italy and Paraguay Group E: Netherlands and Japan Group D: Germany and Serbia Group C: United Sates and Algeria* (*my heart here)Slovinia has a chance too. Not England. Group B: Argentina and South Korea Group A: France and Mexico