Originally posted by Nur: the courts are not a centrally controlled organization, its more like a Professional Association of like minded citizens in different parts of the country, the courts in Mogadishu or elsewhere have no choice but tgo accept any town that applies for membership of the ICU after it chases away their local warlord agents. Well hold on their good Nur. I'm curious how you know this. I may be completely wrong but I was under the impression the UIC was very much centrally controlled under the leadership of none other than Sheikh Aweys? Not that being centrally commanded makes it any less popular or formidable organization. Furthermore, the citizens were already like minded. They just lacked the means to rid themselves of greedy and vicious warlords for some decades. Now that someone has shown them it is possible to defeat and chase these cowardly killers away, they are applauding the courts and are happy with them. It is a paradigm shift that has never been imagined, its a reveolution of revoloutions, its a grassroot revolt and a true peoples court Not only has this been imagined before but it has been tried before. The only difference this time is the willingness of the people (the "grassroots") to join in and repel the warlords. Hopefully that same grassroots support will not turn to its old ways of division along clan lines. Now, all of Somalia is not Safe from the phenomena of the miniature courts , who take control of their township and then declare allegiance only to Allah. I hope it is just a slip of the tongue and you don't mean the people have much to fear from these men of God when you say "all of Somalia is not safe". If it happens, it will not be the first time an ideologically-driven group of men lose their way after a revolution. Let's hope this does not occur but there's always a risk. Specifically, the subversion (using clan politics) by Ethiopia and/or Western powers of the popular support the ICU enjoys is a very real risk.

^ Ya Sheikh Nur all these struggles are interconnected for they're all a fight against oppression. That many of us are interested in the world around us, particularly the plight of fellow Muslims in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine and elsewhere does not deprecate our happiness with the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) and their extraordinary achievements in the past few months. Specifically, the ICU must ensure the hard earned victory over the US-backed killers does not go to waste. As Xiin posted elsewhere, military adventurism in stable areas of the country will unravel all that has been gained in the past few months. My advice? Strengthen the areas that are now under full control. When that is acheived, the UIC won't have to fight anyone (e.g. Abdillahi Yussuf or his Ethiopian army) alone. The entire Somali people will be on their side. They need to prove themselves worthy governors and that can't be done with fighting alone. We should not be distracted with regional wars of dubious nature when a clean cut victory is at hand that needs our undivided attention to safeguard it with all of our resources. All wars nowadays are nationalistic and/or regional wars fought over ever more scarce resources (land, water, minerals or oil) with religion thrown in to rally the troops. Somalia's is no different. Now that we're on the same page, cheer up atheer. The victories are coming in one after the other.

^ To be fair, what I've read of the Israeli press (mostly centrist or left wing, mind you) has been remarkably accurate but understandably somber. Something that cannot be said of most British and US press. Why it was just today that Bush was bestowing victory upon Israel. How ironic it is that the Israelis admit defeat yet the cowards and chicken hawks in Washington claim victory. :rolleyes: Sheikh Hassan Nassrallah and Xizbullah's well-deserved victory over the world's "4th strongest" army is a truly remarkable achievement. He did not exaggerate when he said this is a "strategic and historic" triumph over Israel. I was still (pleasantly) surprised by the victory of another Sheikh Hassan, better known as Sheikh Dahir Aweys of the Union of Islamic Courts, over the wicked and well-funded warlords of Muqdishu (yet another failed US proxy ), when in week 2 and 3 of this doomed Israeli adventure, it became clear Israel was desperate for a cease-fire more than the "rag tag terrorists" of southern Lebanon. I am always delighted when the proxies of the US are defeated but even more so when the real oppressors are humbled, even humiliated. Way to go Sheikh Hassan and Sheikh Hassan. P.S. Other than its cowardly destruction of civilian infrastructure and the cold-blooded, nay wanton, killing of fleeing women and children, Israel has achieved absolutely nothing. Now it will reap what it has sown in south Lebanon, insha-Allah.

^ No worries saaxib. Waxba ima daarin, meelna ima damqan. Riyaale probably means more to you than he does to me. It would be interesting to hear what the Islamic establishment in Somaliland has to say about the courts and their victory today. Sxb anuu waxaan ku leeyahay cabdulaahi Yusuf iyo daahir riyoode waa dameer iyo labadiisii dhagood waxba haa nookala sharaxin I believe you owe that dameer an apology.

Originally posted by General Duke: "Maxamed Dheere , Maxamed Qanyare , C/rashiid Ilqayte ,Bootaan Ciise iyo Cumar Finish ayaa gabi ahaantood maanta aan joogin halkii ay xukumi jireen." Remarkable indeed but not entirely unexpected, is it? Any authentic news on what, if any, alert the TFG has put its "armed forces" on?

Originally posted by Socod_badne: As evinced by Bin Laden excerpts above, Canada is in clear and present danger from Bin Laden group or ideologically affiliated groups. Not cooked up bogeymen to bring around waning public support for foriegn military excursions. Is that your final answer? Perhaps you'd like to phone a friend? In addition to shoring up support for a doomed mission in Afghanistan, the defence industry both north and south of the 49th parallel is delighted there's finally a right-wing government in power in Ottawa. This translates to an increase not only in the historically and relatively anemic defence budget, but also on discretionary domestic "security" spending. Furthermore, this grandstanding just happened to coincide with the supreme court of Canada deliberations into the constitutionality of security certificates. These certificates are used for "indefinite" detention of anyone suspected of terror. Quite convenient all these coincidences, wouldn't you say, analytical SB? Incidents such as the drama in Brampton this past weekend are staged to maximize the fear of the public and to show the government is actually doing something with all the money being siphoned to line the pockets of war (and security) profiteers. That's it atheer.

Soomaalow, saaxib, you and I have been down this path before and it wasn't pretty. Riyaale has his hands full with all the allegations against him. I can also assure you that the Shariif has no desire of marching to Hargeisa or even Las Caanood.

Atheer you can email Las Caanood and CC Hargeisa if you like. Neither of those towns have anything to worry about. It's the man in the blue suit (Abdillahi Yusuf) who is in a tough spot right now. His wish will be answered and the Americans will give him money and weapons to fight the courts. And since the courts have destroyed more vicious men then him, he will run. May be to Ethiopia? Who would have thunk things would turn out this way?

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: Furthermore, what is this "past" that they share for I see non? Abdillahi Yuusuf is a former warlord turned head of state. The ministers sacked today, were warlords turned ministers (who remained warlords). The past they share is warlordism. Is that clear atheer?

Originally posted by General Duke: The courts have support and they are winning so far on the ground. But what happens when they take over Mogadishu?? It is troubling. General, they have taken over Muqdisho. Better send an email to Baidoa. The bearded men are coming.

^ I'm hoping the courts would bring down A/Y and his cronies from "power". Let them flee overseas and leave. I hear the old man has a plane full of fuel with the engine running at all times.

^ Well said wise Ngonge. Even a dead cat would bounce if thrown to the ground. I have a feeling, however, that things will be different this time around. In nearly two decades, this is unprecendented to have consolidated power from Muqdisho all the way to Jowhar. Additionally, how ever so convenient it is that the "ministers" are just now being sacked when they have been crushed by the courts. Does this not reek of hypocrisy on the TFG's part? What if these blood-thirsty warmongers had beaten the courts? Would they be hailed as the keepers of the nation from a Talebanesque future? The leadership of the TFG, invariably, has the same past as these warlord criminals. They can sack these obvious budhcad to save themselves the same fate but only for so long can they keep this show going.

So the "Islamists" are in hot pursuit on their way to Jowhar. Hopefully the people of Jowhar will trap the killers (Qanyare and Yalahow) and keep them there till the courts arrive. Then summarily kill them in broad day light, in full view of cameras with a knife to the neck and chest. Nothing else will send a message to these cowards.

I don't know, good Xiin. Killing and raping the innocent is more grave than hunting down someone for bounty. Hopefully the courts will go all the way and capture or kill these criminals. It would be really nice to have the Americans see just how well their money was spent by the warlords. They'd use the last remaining dollars dressed as women trying to escape the major towns. I'd also like to see the courts take down Abdillahi Yuusuf and his globe-trotting junta in Baydhaba. Basically go all the way and rid the nation of all the warlords.

^ Really? I didn't know. I've never watched an episode of that show. Though I hear it had 50 million viewers in America. Imagine if 50 million Americans wrote to congress about stopping the war instead of using their cellphones to vote for the next American Idol? My point exactly.

^ I wouldn't be surprised one bit. Somalis are in fashion nowadays. From the London (foiled ) bombings to the war in Muqdisho at the moment. The mere association of the word Somali provides more bang for the marketing (of war) buck. Unfortunately, the Canadians did a little too much grandstanding for this to be credible. They had a bag full of broken remote controls and old Nokia cellphones to show as bomb material in the news conference. Not to mention the bag of Basmati rice doubling as fertilizer. Extremely cheesy, if you ask a veteran propaganda-buster like me. They receive an F for originality and an F for effort.

Originally posted by Snake-i: This is what is so startling about the west, they are able to control their citizens anytime they want, and the media is such a powerful tool to use against the masses. Controlling the masses is not such a novel idea invented by the west. It happens everywhere. The west has a population that has more freedoms than many other societies. To control a free society such as Canada, UK or the US, the rulers must jump through many hoops to gain effective control. They would control education, awareness and of course the media. They would shape the opinions of the populace through gradual indoctrination. If countries of the west were dictatorships, no dog and pony show would be presented to invade any country. It would just be invaded and the public told later. Finally, the degree to which the public is actively involved and forces the rulers to listen is the degree with which foreign (or domestic) agression is limited. It's an inverse relationship. A populace more concerned with who wins "American Idol" than why Iraq is the mess that it is, is a well indoctrinated and preferred populace. How about that American Idol season finale, eh?

If you look at these pictures here, you'll see what I'm talking about. Women clearly dressed in Islamic head cover the purpose of which is to link Islam to "terror". Of course, the real terrorists are in the background carrying police badges. Reinforce the idea in the first picture by doing a close up on the police officer's face. Of course the Muslim women remain faceless and generic. Their identity is of no consequence here. Their dress is. A man of "middle-eastern" decent riding in a tinted Ford Crown Victoria surrounded by armed policemen. The man also looks very "suspicious". LOL. Just in case you didn't think the first one was suspicious, here's another one wearing the Islamic beard looking all sleepy. He's probably wondering what in the world is going on. He also probably works in a convenience store owned by his uncle and never has seen any bomb making material in his life. More of the same. Just in case you're unconvinced of their guilt. I mean COME ON. The guys are handcuffed sitting in the back seat of the unmarked police cruiser. What more proof do you need? The alleged bomb making material seized. But if you look at the caption of the original picture, here's what it says: "Items are shown on display during a press conference in Toronto, Saturday, June 3, 2006. The bag of fertilizer, right, was not seized during the raid and was there for display purposes only." Here's the source of these pictures. And this is the "liberal" paper in Toronto. LOOOOOL. So, does any Canadian have any doubt why we still need to be in Afghanistan killing them gooks? I didn't think so. Bada bim bada fcuking bum. P.S. Most of these men will be released after sometime for lack of evidence. If the public is still unconvinced, they'll ship 'em to Guantanamo Bay and let the Yankee war machine sort them out.

^ Darul harb? Of what you speak woman? Originally posted by codetalker: Sometimes I wonder who truly rules the West: politicians or the TV? Simply, neither. The west, just like the east, north and south, is ruled by elites of one persuasion or the other. Whether owners of land, mines, oil wells, or what have you, these elites install whomever they feel best serves their interests in political office. They also own and direct the media. So, both politicians and the media are tools available to the elite to keep the masses under control. What happened in Canada is a classic example of using fear to force a population to support a war mysterious to the public. Recently, a Canadian soldier was killed in combat. She was young, white and blonde and her picture flashed across the tv screens the world over. Canadians started asking questions. "Why are we in Afghanistan spending our money and the lives of our youth?" They asked their politicans. And the death of that fine soldier coincided with the extension of the Canadian "mandate" in Afghanistan an extra two years through 2009. The public wanted answers to the death and the extension but the politicians have not the desire nor does the public have the aptitude to comprehend the answer. So to solve this problem, they find 17 "terrorists", of which 5 are children (LOL), and flash them across the screens. It's Xaax all the way to the bank.

Ah, yet another page straight out of the American book (ruse) of war on terror. First, the support for war is diminishing (in this case, Canadian troops in Afghanistan). The population questions why Canada has any troop in that country to begin with. Then the public must be scared into believing the war on terror is being fought there (Kandahar) so it wouldn't come here (Etobicoke). To accomplish this, descend upon some Arab/Muslim men in the middle of the night while being heavily armed. Call the news stations in advance to capture the whole "raid" on film for maximum television exposure. End result, the ignorant and scared public overwhelmingly supports the war again. Just like magic. Until a few months go by and the retarded public forgets again why their precious tax dollars are being pilfered in Afghanistan and elsewhere. Same film, different (Canadian) actors. :rolleyes:

Animal Farm, it's not that "no one cares" but the problem seems so trivial compared to what faces the nation and the people. So poverty, war, famine, displacement, illiteracy will make room for copyright laws? Not to mention the whole issue of permissibility of music in Islam and Xassan Adan Samatar has no chance of making money on his records. About those Ethiopians, eh? Total topic hijack. Jimcaale was begging for this.

Copyright Somali songs? LOL. Ducaqabe, I don't know what's gotten into you but calling millions of people "dirty" is bigotry and prejudice. And prejudice is "irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion." Now, what was that about copyright infrigement? :rolleyes:

^ Hi back at you atheer. Good to see you around.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: It's time to copy right the songs from these dirty xabash. Ayaan daro is not just the copyright infringement but the bigotry of that statement. Atheer ka noqo.

Paragon wrote earlier and I skimmed over: The clever person's deductions will unearth the true meaning of what nationalism meant in Somalia, it simply meant Glorified D--rodism. I disagree with this. Somalinimo is not D clan majesty (though some D'ers would love it were it so. ). That much Paragon is off the mark on. But there are many majesties being preserved here. The D just happens to be one of the largest. Even within it, however, there are quarrels that good Paragon couldn't easily explain away with his thesis. In my view each clan (and sublcan) is doing what is in its best interest and if that means their interests coincide with those of another clan, then they will proceed accordingly. It's not about A's, B's or D's. It's about the generic clan. Nationalism is not dead atheer, as I said in another thread, it never was born in Somalia. Let each clan stick a flag on its spot. I'll be in Houston, TX, while they sort out the many border conflicts that will surely come about.