Oh how terribly things turned out. Yey was nothing but a puppet then and it didn't take him long to show his true colors. What's surprising about this thread is that some who displayed the most irrational exuberance over the war criminal yeey, continue to do so to this day. This, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I believe I can fly. LOL.

This SOB has been saying the same thing from the minute the Ethiopians set foot in Somalia. Either he's delusional or reality is difficult for him to comprehend. All the Ethiopians managed to accomplish is decimate the city and displace the population. This would be a great time for the TFG to call "reconciliation" conference. Just when there's no one left to reconcile with. LOL.

^^^ Only due to my prior exchanges with him that I am calm. And I'm also working on my temper, atheer. LePoint, let Jeffrey Gettleman and Chris Floyd defend their respective articles and stick to our chosen theme. Clearly, I rejected Gettleman's claims and hence my posting of Floyd's rebuttal, which you summarily dismissed. Now, are you gonna present a bloody case or what?

Originally posted by ThePoint: "an important motivation for the current conflict is to keep the looted properties. Not the sole reason and maybe not the primary reason." Then present your case. This seems like a decent theme to explore but since you're asserting it, you must present a case supporting it. You do remember that he who makes the positive assertion is obligated to back it up. In other words, the burden of proof is on you to convince me to get off my Buddha-couch and make a rebuttal. A demain indeed.

Originally posted by ThePoint: ^As you wish Castro. Hold fast when nothing else will do Despite your constant insinuations and indiscretions, I'm actually willing to engage you. Now, be a good boy, come up with a set of points we can agree on to discuss this issue of "looted properties" and I, in my Buddha-like generosity, will help you make a discussion out of it. Unless your whole aim was to practice saying the f-word in public? Edit: Focus on your claim that looted properties are a major reason for this war. And if you really hate this article by Chris Floyd, you can take it up with him.

^^^^ Won't you work on the "valuation" of the looted properties? ThePoint, in fact, my "intellectual interest" in this article has been completely satisfied. I feel no compulsion to defend it.

And some of you are people who have brain cells? What a fcking joke! I'm not sure where you lost your manners but you better head back and look for them if you want me to bother with a reply.

(AP) MOGADISHU, Somalia A missile hit a hospital ward packed with civilians wounded in fighting between Islamic insurgents and Ethiopian troops allied to the Somali government, but it was not immediately clear if it caused additional casualties, an official said. The ward already was housing 20-30 wounded adults, said Wilhelm Huber, regional director for the SOS Children's Villages. The children had been evacuated earlier, he said. Five missiles had actually hit the grounds in the lunchtime attack, but only one struck a ward, Huber said. People were wounded, but he did not have details because of the chaotic situation and because there already were wounded in the ward at the time. "What is happening now cannot go on," Huber told The Associated Press. He said he did not believe the hospital had been deliberately targeted, but that it clearly came from government forces because of the flight path of the missiles. "People are desperate," Huber said. "This is a tragic situation." At least 13 shells have hit the grounds of the hospital and children's orphanage in the last six days, including the latest attack, he said. Earlier in the day, civilians were caught in the crossfire as the Somali government's Ethiopian backers used tanks and heavy artillery to pound insurgent strongholds, witnesses said. Ethiopian military officials met with elders of Mogadishu's dominant clan to try to broker a peace, said Abdullahi Sheik Hassan, a spokesman with Mogadishu's powerful ****** clan. Hundreds have been killed in eight straight days of fighting. Analysts said U.S. and Ethiopian military intervention in Somalia has destroyed a fragile stability in this battle-scarred nation, as more than a week of unrelenting violence trapped desperate civilians in their homes with gunfire and artillery shells raining down outside. The leaders of an Islamic movement that was driven from power in December by the government and its Ethiopian backers are still active, and popular support for the group is unlikely to melt away, according to a report by the British-based think tank Chatham House. The Council of Islamic Courts ruled much of southern Somalia for six relatively peaceful months in 2006 before being ousted by Somali troops and their Ethiopian allies, along with U.S. special forces. Radicals in the council rejected a secular government and have been accused of having ties to al-Qaida. "Whatever the short term future holds, the complex social forces behind the rise of the Islamic Courts will not go away," said Cedric Barnes and Huran Hassan of Chatham House. Hundreds have been killed in eight straight days of fighting despite U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urging both sides to end the violence and allow humanitarian assistance to reach the needy. Late Tuesday, an extremist group claimed responsibility for car bomb attacks earlier in the day against Ethiopian troops and a hotel housing lawmakers loyal to Somalia's interim government. Known as the Young Mujahedeen Movement, the group is part of the Shabab, whose leader Aden Hashi Ayro was recently chosen to head Somalia's al-Qaida cell and was one of the people targeted by a U.S. airstrike in Somalia in January. The U.N. says more than 340,000 of Mogadishu's 2 million residents have fled since February, sending streams of people into squalid camps with little to eat, no shelter and disease spreading. The war-ravaged country is suffering its worst humanitarian crisis in its recent history, according to the U.N. Human rights groups say more than 350 people have been killed in the last eight days, the majority civilians. The last bid to wipe out the insurgency in March left more than a 1,000 dead, said local rights groups and traditional elders. Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi said Tuesday he believed the exodus and the death toll had been exaggerated. "I have been stuck inside for the last three days and have no food left," mother of nine, Hawa Mualim told AP by telephone, saying there was fighting outside her house in northern Mogadishu and she was too scared to venture outside. Western and U.N. diplomats fear Somalia's government is holding up vital aid supplies to people fleeing the fighting. The government has been demanding to inspect all food and medical shipments, holding up potentially lifesaving aid, European and American officials said in letters obtained Tuesday by the AP. U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said representatives of his office and other U.N. agencies met in the southern town of Baidoa on Monday with a newly established Inter-Ministerial Committee set up by the transitional government to discuss the lack of humanitarian access and the lack of cooperation from the government. At the meeting, Holmes said, "they have assured us of full support for humanitarian access and humanitarian workers," including to all airstrips, which he welcomed but cautiously. "The reassurances we received yesterday were good as far as they go, but they have to be translated into action," he said. Somalia has not had an effective national government since 1991, when warlords overthrew dictator Mohamed Siad Barre and then turned on one another, throwing the country into anarchy. The current administration was formed in 2004 but has struggled to extend its control over the country. (© 2007 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. )

^^^^ Very recent history is being revised, Faaraxow, in front of our eyes. Chris Floyd is the man.

^^^^ The ICU was not the motive, they were the opportunity. That's another topic however. Whatever plan they had (or you claim they didn't) never saw the light of day. And since we're on the topic, what is the TFG's "plan"?

Can you prove this: "they [the Courts] were not politicians and DID not have any tangible plans for the future of Somalia."? This is really why they failed. Fact, ‘atheer’, no conspiracy. Really? I thought the 30,000 Ethiopian troops had something to do with it. I may be wrong. LOL.

This is a rebuke of the New York Times' article (also posted on SOL) about those who fuel the anarchy for their own gain. Written by Chris Floyd Wednesday, 25 April 2007 The New York Times has finally deigned to bestow prominent notice on the Bush Administration's third on-going "regime change" operation, its blood-soaked proxy war in Somalia. But it should come as no surprise that today's front page piece by Jeffrey Gettleman (People Who Feed Off Anarchy in Somalia Are Quick to Fuel It) is riddled with the same kind of slavish spin, artful omissions and outright lies that the paper produced in those glorious Judy Miller days of yore before the invasion of Iraq. One can only hope that Gettleman submits an invoice to the White House, to get his rightful due for this remarkable piece of government propaganda. For the story is permeated with the Bushist ethos: blame the victims, bury the truth, and smear all those who oppose the Leader's will. The theme of Gettleman's piece is that resistance to the U.S.-backed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia is being led by a bunch of greedy gangsters grown fat on the anarchy that has plagued the land for more than 15 years. What's more, this chaotic gangsterism is evidently a national trait of Somalis, who are possessed of a "raw antigovernment defiance" that is solely responsible for the collapse of the nation, and is making it hard even for the entirely benevolent Bush Administration to do anything for them. For as Gettleman ominously notes, "many Somalis...will never go along with any program." Obviously then, the only way to tame these savages is by brute force -- such as the artillery and tank fire that the Ethiopian invaders and their native warlord allies are raining down on residential areas in Mogadishu even as we speak, killing at least 350 people in the last week -- and 29 civilians just yesterday, as the BBC reports, but which Gettleman politely declines to mention in his piece. This is classic Establishment thinking here: the reduction of complex human societies to a few unruly character traits, supposedly unique and endemic faults that the poor creatures can't control but which pose a danger to civilization, thus justifying massive military action to bring them to heel -- for their own good, of course. Gettleman is stalwart in this regard. He ignores the direct and quite open American military involvement in the invasion: the U.S. training, arming and funding of the Ethiopian military, the deployment of U.S. Special Forces in the invasion, the airstrikes launched by U.S. planes on fleeing refugees, and the role of U.S. intelligence agents in arresting and "rendering" Somali refugees to the torture chambers of the Ethiopian dictatorship -- all of which has been thoroughly documented by reputable mainstream newspapers in Europe, Asia, and Africa. Aside from one passing reference, in the 27th paragraph, of "covert American help" in the invasion, the only other mention he makes of any American involvement in Somalia is the Bush Administration's "pledge of $100 million to rebuild the country." Just another noble mission, in other words, another act of purest altruism from the "shining city on the hill." Of course, there are greedy gangsters in Somalia -- just as there are in every single human society on earth. (Even the "shining city" itself is not noticeably lacking in this regard.) So it's not very hard for Gettleman -- or rather, the local stringers he employs in Mogadishu -- to dig up some nefarious figures to illustrate his chosen theme. Take Maxamuud Nuur Muradeeste, for example, "a squatter landlord who makes a few hundred dollars a year renting out rooms in the former Ministry of Minerals and Water." Muradeeste says he would allow "insurgents" (i.e., those resisting the armed conquest of their nation by foreign invaders) to store guns at his place. Obviously a prime candidate for a set of Gitmo pajamas. Or what about the equally sinister Omar Hussein Ahmed, a Mogadishu olive oil exporter? In addition to sharing a name with anti-Bush terrorists like Saddam and Obama, Ahmed "and a group of fellow traders recently bought missiles to shoot at government soldiers." And why would they do this? "'Taxes are annoying,' he explained." And then there's...well, that's it. These are the people who Gettleman says are "fueling" the insurgency because the Ethiopian-installed government "poses the biggest threat yet to the gravy days of anarchy." A gangster who makes "a few hundred dollars a year" renting rooms in a long-abandoned government building. (Perhaps Gettleman could ask Dick Cheney's employers at Halliburton if they would consider a few hundred dollars of revenue a year to be "gravy.") And an olive oil producer who doesn't want to pay taxes. (Actually, Gettleman's first capsule description of Somalia's gangsters sounds exactly like Bush's corporate cronies: "They do not pay taxes, their businesses are totally unregulated, and they have skills that are not necessarily geared toward a peaceful society." So what's not to like about these guys?) But this would not be a classic NYT piece if its nakedly ideological framework was not subverted by the nuggets of fact buried deep beneath the sludge-like prose. And so it proves in this case. Although olive oil trader Ahmed first appears as a missile-toting gangster who just doesn't want to pay taxes -- one of the "many Somalis" whose "raw antigovernment defiance" compels them to "resist any program" or government -- far, far down in the story we learn that he and his fellow traders had actually accepted the imposed new government at first, but were driven into opposition by the Bush-backed warlords' own greed: For many Abgal [tribal members], an influential subclan of the ******, the last straw came in mid-March when the government raised port taxes by 300 percent. Mr. Ahmed, the olive oil exporter and an Abgal, said that after that, there was a mass Abgal defection to the insurgency. "The government is trying to destroy business as we know it," he said. The new "government" is led by clan leaders and warlords whose power and profits had been curtailed by the Islamic Courts government that took power in Somalia last year and brought the nation its first measure of peace and relative security in 15 years. So when they sought to recoup their losses with draconian tax hikes, many Somalis went into rebellion, including the "gangster" Ahmed. This is presented as some kind of wild, anarchic, even terroristic action. But what would good ole God-fearin' American businessmen do if Washington suddenly raised their taxes by 300 percent? And Gettleman's own portrayal of the deposed Islamic Courts system gives the lie to his earlier depiction of Somalis' inborn anarchy and gangsterism: Many in the business community became fed up with paying protection fees to the warlords and their countless middle-men. Business leaders then backed a grass-roots Islamist movement that drove the warlords out of Mogadishu last summer and brought peace to the city for the first time in 15 years. The Islamists seemed to be the perfect solution for the businessmen. They delivered stability, which was good for most business, but they did not confiscate property or levy heavy taxes. They called themselves an administration, not a government. “Our best days were under them,” said Abdi Ali Jama, who owns an electrical supply shop in Mogadishu. So it seems that Somalis -- even Somali businessmen -- can be governed, as long as people are treated fairly. It seems that stability and peace can be achieved in Somalia -- if it rises from the grass roots and is not imposed by foreign fighters shelling neighborhoods and American bombers attacking refugees. But you can only discern this by looking at Gettleman's piece upside down, and discarding the heavy scaffolding of spin he has erected around it. And now we come to the heart of darkness in Gettleman's story. For it is not enough for him, and the "Western security officials" who are his sources, simply to lampoon Somalis as a bunch of shiftless, lazy, quarrelsome darkies in the traditional Establishment fashion. No, Gettleman goes beyond this to concoct a completely false account of how this new front in Bush's "War on Terror" was launched. Here, he invokes the eternal cry of every aggressor from time out of mind: "They made us do it." It's what Hitler said when he invaded Poland. It's what Saddam said when he invaded Kuwait. It's what Bush said when he invaded Iraq. And it's obviously the Bushist party line now: But then a radical wing took over, and the Islamists declared war on Ethiopia, which commands one of the mightiest armies in Africa. The Ethiopians, with covert American help, crushed the Islamist army in December and bolstered the authority of Somalia’s transitional government in the capital. "The Islamists declared war on Ethiopia." This, of course, is a blatant and outright lie. (Although perhaps Gettleman, taking dictation from his "Western security officials" -- and apparently unable to access, say, the BBC on his computer -- doesn't actually know the truth. In any case, he obviously can't be bothered to find out.) The truth is that Ethiopia sent a 100-strong column of trucks and armored cars across the border into Somalia on July 20 of last year to bolster the Bush-backed warlords who were trying to overthrow the Islamist Courts government, which had taken over Mogadishu a month before. It was the day after this armed incursion into Somalian territory that the Islamist Courts declared a jihad "against Ethiopians in Somalia," not a "war against Ethiopia." Let's walk through that sequence of events once again: Ethiopia makes an armed incursion into Somalia. The Somalian government declares that the Ethiopian troops should be driven out of Somalia. (Yes, I know that if Mexico sent an armed column into Texas to join up with a Chinese-backed group trying to overthrow the government of the United States, George W. Bush would react with Zen-like calm and seek a peaceful solution through diplomacy, negotiation and compromise, and that's what the Islamic Courts guys should have done in this case. But you can't expect such heathenish savages to respond with the enlightenment and good will that has always marked conflict resolution among the Christian nations of the West.) Somehow from this sequence Gettleman manages to convey to readers exactly what the Bush Administration wants them to think: the Muslim terrorists started it, and now they're getting what's coming to them. And if you see any pictures on CNN or somewhere of innocent people being killed in the crossfire, well, that's just because a bunch of greedy gangsters and al Qaeders are causing trouble. And this is the "news" about Somalia that the New York Times believes is "fit to print": lies and spin about yet another war of aggression being fought at America's behest, with American money, troops, arms and bombs. Empire Burlesque

^^^^ Those invaders were "invited". The Puntland leadership is too busy serving them milk and cookies. :rolleyes:

^^^^ You're stuck with us insane lot atheer. Those fighting the enemy will bring back the security, civil and judicial order they created out of nothing prior to this invasion. If by an "alternative to the TFG" you mean parading around the world wearing suits sucking up to anyone who would listen, you're in for a rude awakening. We've seen in a few short months what the Courts have accomplished and absent further interference, I've no doubt in my mind it can be done again. Born-again warlord politicians do not a government make.

Ethiopians Cast Blame for Oil Attack By ANITA POWELL The Associated Press Wednesday, April 25, 2007; 9:00 AM ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia -- Ethiopia blamed its longtime enemy Eritrea Wednesday for an attack in eastern Ethiopia on a Chinese-owned oil exploration field that killed 74 people. Eritrea issued a swift, angry denial. In addition to those killed, at least six Chinese workers and a number of Ethiopians were taken hostage during Tuesday's dawn attack, for which the rebel ****** National Liberation Front claimed responsibility. The secessionist group formed from Ethiopia's minority Somalis has been linked to neighboring Eritrea. "Hand-in-glove with the Eritrean government, which hates to see Ethiopia's development, the terrorist forces in the region have acted out this horrendous act of terror," Ethiopia's Foreign Ministry stated on its Web site Wednesday. It called on the United Nations to take action against Eritrea. Eritrean Information Minister Ali Abdu denied the allegation, saying it was "a habitual nonsense statement" from Ethiopia. Relations between Ethiopia and Eritrea have been strained since Eritrea gained independence from the Addis Ababa government in 1993 following a 30-year guerrilla war. The two countries fought a two-year border war that ended in 2000. Recently, the two nations have traded accusations over involvement in Somalia. Eritrea is accused of backing an increasingly violent Islamic insurgency fighting Ethiopian troops supporting the Somali government. Tuesday's attackers "were wearing Eritrean military uniforms," Abdullahi Hassan, president of the region in Ethiopia where the attack occurred, told The Associated Press. "We are sure. They were speaking the Eritrean language." Hassan said the area of the attack is now under control. The attack took place early Tuesday in Abole, a small town 310 miles east of Addis Ababa in Somali Regional State and close to the Somali border. Xu Shuang, the general manager of Zhongyuan Petroleum Exploration Bureau's Ethiopia operation, said nine Chinese oil workers and 65 locals were killed and that seven Chinese workers were kidnapped. But the group said it is only holding six Chinese workers. China condemned the attack, the first against a foreign company in the Horn of Africa nation. The bodies of the nine slain Chinese workers were being flown to the Ethiopian capital on Wednesday, before being repatriated to China, said Sun Qing, a Chinese embassy spokeswoman. She said negotiations were under way to win the release of the hostages and that all Chinese staff were being evacuated. She had no detail on whether the attackers were wearing Eritrean uniforms. Ethiopian troops continued their search Wednesday for the rebel group and the hostages. Tuesday's attack by more than 200 fighters lasted about an hour, and followed a warning the rebel group made last year against any investment in eastern Ethiopia's ****** area. The group said in a second statement posted on its Web site that 400 Ethiopian troops were killed or wounded in the attack. It said the Chinese fatalities were caused by explosions caused by munitions during the battle. The statement added that the oil exploration field was attacked because ethnic Somalis were driven from their land by Ethiopian troops to make way for the facility. In recent years, the ****** National Liberation Front has only made occasional hit-and-run attacks against government troops, making Tuesday's attack its most significant one. It has fought for the secession of the ****** region _ an area the size of Britain with 4 million people _ since the early 1990s. The volatile Somali Regional State, as the ****** is known, "is not a safe environment for any oil exploration to occur. We urge all international oil companies to refrain from entering into agreements with the Ethiopian government," the front said in its claim of responsibility sent to the AP. The ****** National Liberation Front described Tuesday's attack as "military operations against units of the Ethiopian armed forces guarding an oil exploration site," in the east of the country. It did not give any details of casualties, but said they had "wiped out" three Ethiopian military units. The official Xinhua news agency reported that the attackers fought 100 Ethiopian soldiers protecting the facility in a 50-minute gunbattle. Ethiopia is not an oil-producing country. But companies such as the Chinese one and Malaysia's state-owned oil giant Petronas have signed exploration deals. Xinhua said Zhongyuan Petroleum Exploration Bureau had 157 Chinese and Ethiopian workers at the facility. The company is a division of the giant state-owned China Petroleum and Chemical Corp. that began its operations in Ethiopia in May 2004, according to its Web site. It began work in the volatile Somali Regional State last year. Washington Post

Row over aid to fleeing Somalis Somalia's interim government is suspected of preventing humanitarian aid from urgently reaching people who have fled fighting in the capital. Western diplomats say demands to inspect all aid shipments was adding to the misery, AP news agency reports. Earlier, the UN humanitarian chief said insecurity, checkpoint harassment and new administrative directives have all obstructed humanitarian efforts. An estimated 320,000 people have left Mogadishu since February, the UN says. There have been seven straight days of clashes between Ethiopian troops backing the interim government and insurgents and fighters from the city's dominant ****** clan. Ethiopia's prime minister says he hopes to have routed the insurgents within a fortnight. 'Free tests' UN, EU and US diplomats in the region have all appealed to the government to stop complicating aid delivery. "The efforts of international agencies to come to the aid of these stricken people are being thwarted on the one hand by militia looting relief supplies, demanding 'taxes' and violently threatening aid workers, and on the other by administrative obstacles imposed by the transitional federal government," AP news agency quotes a letter written last week by the German ambassador to Kenya. Earlier, US Ambassador Michael Ranneberger wrote that "these practices are unacceptable and undermine the legitimacy of your government". A doctor just outside Mogadishu told the BBC about the difficulties of running her own maternity clinic. "Around my hospital there are 2,000 families, mostly children and women," Hawa Abdi told the BBC's Network Africa programme. "There is no food or shelter. We have a small quantity of water, but we aren't able to get water from the well. The UNHCR reached us and gave us small plastic shelters, but it is not enough." Dr Abdi said she is trying to care for all who come to the clinic, both those who come to give birth, and those wounded in the fighting. Other medical staff have arrived from hospitals that have been damaged in the fighting in the centre of the capital. "Some people are injured, and they are coming to my hospital. I am not practising clan-discrimination as others are. If there is land where they can live, I will give them my land, and water free. Also medical tests I do free," she said. "Other doctors are coming from Mogadishu where there was heavy shelling of the Hayat hospital, and also from the Arafat hospital they are coming to help me." In a meeting with the government, the UN's humanitarian chief John Holmes received promises that things would change. "They have assured us of full support for humanitarian access and humanitarian workers," he said. Somalia has not had a functional government since 1991. A transitional government was formed in 2004, but has so far failed to take full control of the country. Ethiopian troops have started to withdraw, to be replaced by an African Union peacekeeping force, but only 1,200 of the 8,000 troops the AU says it needs have been deployed. BBC

^^^^ Perhaps from the comfort of your couch but not from where many Muqdisho residents are standing.

The Ethiopians, with covert U.S. help, crushed the Islamist army in December and installed Somalia's transitional government, which until then had been very weak, in the capital. Anyone who calls the recent US involvement in Somalia "covert" should be mistrusted. How much more overt can it get than with AC130's? LOL. War is profit and this one is no different. The loot many mention around here is mostly barren lands and demolished homes worth a pittance. (Homes and land whose pre-Afweyne owners may claim were ill-gotten to begin with.) Where is the real loot that all these men, women and children are being bombed for? In Iraq, it's clearly the oil. What is it in our case? Foreign aid? Regional hegemony? Access to sea ports? Resource mining? If every time loot is mentioned the thought of your aunt's villa in Hodan or your uncle's pharmacy in KM4 is all you can see, then y'all don't even know what loot is. :rolleyes: And the poster calls him self an "economist". Economics-ey xaal qaado.

Originally posted by me: Castro you haven't come clean yet? So answer the question, whats your stand on Somali unity and the war against Ethiopia. Get a hobby atheer. I won't entertain you any more.

Originally posted by me: Politically I am against secession because I have always supported Somaliweyn and always will be for the reason that we are a small nation and to survive in this global world we need to be united.[/qb] Nations (even recognized ones) survive on less people and land. Think Djibouti. Or how about Palau at a whopping 191 sq. miles. Weak argument atheer. My issue is social because clan discrimination does not happen to me only its a problem that happens in every Somali city and a strong Somali government and a change in social attitudes can change that. Even weaker. If you've ever lived in the west, you'd see that racism still flourishes despite the best efforts of stable and democratic governments. Tolerance can't be legislated. So my primary problem with the secessionists is that my political views and theirs clash and since I am a stakeholder in the area that they want to secede, I have a problem with them. Sounds like a two-way street. Talk it out with them. Or pick up a gun. Which ever suits your personality. Because why would I live a 'country' that I would be discriminated in and in who is against my political ideology? Are you in the UK? US? Canada? Elsewhere in Europe or the Middle East? Dude, you're discriminated against everywhere you go. Cry me a river. The problem is clannism and clan discrimination. Clans that are always rivaling for the power and let alone in'states'you can find clans rivaling for power in the smallest villages. That's a problem for the secessionists and non-secessionists alike. Did I ever show you my collection of small violins?

True or not, the Ethiopians had a window of opportunity to "clean up" Muqdisho before world opinion (and turning the other cheek) became a problem. That window is fast closing while the resistance grows stronger every day. Meles', who according to some on this site, has withdrawn his forces (LOL) is in deep shit. From bombings at home, to defections of soldiers, to urban warfare in Muqdisho, to rising costs in man and material, to plummeting morale, etc.. He thought it would be a cake walk. Dumb SOB.

Khalaf, that picture could easily have been taken anywhere. Anyone who understands propaganda would know that discrediting your enemy is a vital tool of warfare. And what better way to do so than accuse your enemy of employing child soldiers. Now, the resistance may have children in it but, as I explained above, it could be for many reasons not the least of which is the leadership purposely employing them. This, however immoral, pales in comparison to the carpet bombing of civilians the puppet government you support is guilty of. Originally posted by ThePoint: ^Castro - what you have a right to do and what is wise to do are not always the same. Don't tell me you're conflating the two also. No, I'm not. I'm sad to see a picture like this, if it is genuine. But I'm considerably more sad to read about what happens in Muqdisho. This, in my view, is a much lesser evil. Justified, too, in some ways.

^^^ This child may have had his home, his parents and his siblings bombed to pieces by the invaders. And while this is most unfortunate, as long as he can carry a gun, he has every right to fight. Or would you prefer he left town to live in the open 30 miles out of Muqdisho?

Originally posted by me: BTW no need for you to adress any issues of mine, issues of people like me, who can't live in their home towns because of clan discrimination, will be addressed by any proper Somali government, so don't worry. So, are you mad because Somaliland wants to secede or because Somalilanders are "racist"? You need to come clean son. Don't hide behind the secession smokescreen. Yours is a social problem, seemingly racism, while secession is a political problem. Racism is everywhere. Puntlanders, Benadiris and Jubbalanders may be just as racist as Somalilanders but they're not trying to secede. At least they've not declared they do. It seems you're more confused than most yet you accuse everyone of confusion. Originally posted by me: Japanese hadii aan ahaan lahaa, tooreey ayaan iska taagi lahaa, laakiin soomaali ayaan ahay marka afka ayaan buurayaa. You can become an honorary Japanese just for today.

And now the Somalis in the Oggadeen region will be bombed from the air and shelled from the ground like their counterparts in Muqdisho. This is just more money from the Americans in Meles' pocket. Allow sahal. Edit: And why on earth attack non-combatants?