Originally posted by Zenobia: I think this might answer some of your questions... Somaliland Constitution I also remember reading a interesting document about the Somali liberation movements. I can't remember the exact title or author, though. Zenobia, I hope you're not implying the Somaliland constitution is the same as the SNM manifesto, if it exists. I also read the Davies document. It doesn't go into any detail how a resistance movement led to the "birth of a nation" so to speak. Below, you can read the entire paragraph on the transition: Immediately after defeating the military forces of General Barre in January 1991, the SNM called a meeting in March 1991 of the Elders of all non-Issaq clans in the former British Somaliland to reconcile any potential differences between them and the **** clans – as agreed upon by all liberation movements before the end of the war-of-liberation. The SNM then met with the Elders of the **** group of clans in the middle of April 1991 in Hargeisa. They called a Congress of the SNM at the end of April, together with representatives of all clans, **** and non-****. This Guurti Congress of the Elders and other democratically-selected representatives forced the SNM, against its will, to announce the creation of the independent Republic of Somaliland on 16 May 1881. Seems like the whole thing went down in 5 months between January and May 1991. A very short gestation period, wouldn't you say?

^^^^ Good point, JB. The title may be too specific but I have a feeling more people know of the SNM and Somaliland than, say, the SSDF or the SPM. Many also may know of the USC but, frankly, I'm more interested now in the legacies of the SNM and the SSDF than the USC. I plan to focus later on the USC and its legacy.

Originally posted by -Nomadique-: I may be able to answer your questions. Give me some time though. Nomadique, take all the time you need. Unlike some around here, I'm really not interested in getting a reaction from anyone. My only aim is to understand the evolution of the resistance movements in Somalia.

^^^ Thank you, Nomadique. JB, I'm willing to sit in front of, behind, and on top of the PC to get some answers. Where is the SNM manifesto? Has any one seen it? Was it ever published? Did it include articles of separation or secession? If not, why not? Was the chosen name of the separatist entity "Somaliland"? If not, what was the chosen name? Did the SSDF manifesto include renaming the north eastern region of Somalia to Puntland? Did it also include using external powers to subjugate the rest of Somalia? Did Abdullahi Yuusuf read the manifesto of the SSDF? Come on JB, if you can't help me with the above, let someone else who can do so.

^^^^ I wish I could see you.

Where is the (authentic) text of the SNM Manifesto? And while we're on the topic, where are the manifestos of the SSDF, SPM, USC ( :rolleyes: ) and whatever other 'Sxxx' out there? I need to get to the bottom of this. Who did what, when, why and how?

^^^^ Thank you, MMA. Now, where is the SNM manifesto? Suddenly, I have an idea....

^^^^ So he's a collaborator? Well, in that case, invite (ok, lure) his dabodhilif behind to a coffee at the Jane and Finch donut shop and beat the xaar out of him.

Originally posted by Bokero: with acceptance of regional economic integration as way to increase trade and lessen poverty, the entire regional will sooner or later will be integrated by economic necessity, and u will achieve u somaliweyne as result, and guess what, u will have kenyans, ugandans, rwandese, Tanzanians, ethiopians and eriterian as bonus! Bokero, no offense saaxib but from whatever you're smoking, I'd like to take a hit. Past Somaliwayn to a larger East Africa-wayn? Pass the roach, atheer.

^^^^ Thanks Renegade. Would you happen to have or know of links to sites containing any discussion of secession in these conferences? Basically, what is the earliest recorded history of the secession? If, as you say, it had been discussed in meetings or conferences during 1990-1991, somebody must have been taking minutes or transcribing the discussions. Surely something this important must have been written down to be propagated to the masses, no?

^^^^ Edited. A tornado must have passed through.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: castro, we brought this movement and made its market ,,,,,, as you said in another thread it is the fastest and the most cleaver ideology brought in Africa. means the sellers are quite intelligent and know what they doing. Actually, I said it was the "most successful marketing campaign in the history of Somalia" not the cleverest ideology brought in Africa. If it were the latter, we wouldn't be where we are today, would we?. Unfortunately (or not), the success with which Somalilanders have been convinced of the idea was not achieved with external entities that bestow recognition.

Originally posted by Baashi: So insurgency is mixed bag eh? I got it! Yes. Unlike the one dimensional TFG leadership united under a flag of cronyism, greed and subservience to the external enemies of Somalia. Does it have a chance to succeed (through military means) given the situation? Probably, in the long run. A hated regime imposed through force by none other than Ethiopia will find it very difficult to gain legitimacy. And it is that lack of legitimacy and popular support that will aide the resistance. Stronger armies than the TFG or even Ethiopia have failed to subdue populations.

Originally posted by Yo-Yo Ma: Fake wadaad or not, as long as one party is winning and unifying Xamar, we should all be for it. Now lets see if Indhacade is taken out. N hopefully Yeey would be next. LoL. How far we have come from that time, Che. I even heard Qeybdiid is now a respectable statesman in Yey's "government". Uff. So that was July of 2006. It's now May of 2007. Any guesses for spring 2008?

Originally posted by Baashi: Horn, Baashi, Xiin, and Libaax are part of that section of the greater clan you refered to, are they as well guilty by association? It's admirable if you stand with Somali brethern in distress and it's also diserable to speak out against dulmi regardless of who commits but it is totally out of line to indict a section of the society because of the actions of politicians whose sole interest is to amaze wealth and exercise state power to satisfy their whims. A certain SOLer is missing from that list. Simple omission? Old Baashi, Paragon is venting. Don't make a big deal out of it. The perpetrators of our collective misery come in every clan, shape and form and he knows that but I suspect what's pissing him off is the support some of these killers get from their brethren in clan simply because they share a clan. You know, those who toe the party line, distort facts, minimize the suffering of others and shamelessly lie to advance indefensible ideologies and positions. I may be wrong but that's how I read Paragon.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^You are asking trouble wallee Castrow! I can see Oodweyne preparing one of his lengthy write-ups. We’ll soon be flooded with important quotes and historical clichés…all bold in a sea of regular fonts… May be that's exactly what we need atheer. There are more Somaliland threads on the front page than most other issues. And this at a time when Somalia is under a foreign occupation. It's as if the whole forum caught a fever of some kind. If the Somalilanders on SOL are any indication, not A/Y, the TFG, or even Ethiopia will make them change their mind.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: I didn't know buraanbur had clans. It doesn't. Buraanbur and that dance in the video belong to us. That's right, us.

^^^^ You're trying too hard, Red. Defending Somaliland against every Tom, Dick and Ali is an exercise in futility. Those who hate it, you could never satisfy and those who wish Somalia didn't split will get over it with time. You don't have to respond to every person that utters the word, and that includes me.

Guantanamo inmate says he only fought Ethiopians By Jane Sutton Reuters Friday, May 4, 2007; 6:59 PM MIAMI (Reuters) - A "high value" Somali prisoner at Guantanamo denied having al Qaeda ties but said he fought Ethiopian soldiers in his homeland and had the right to do so, according to a Pentagon transcript released on Friday. The U.S. military says Guleed Hassan Ahmed, a Somali in his early 30s, was a member of al-Ittihad al-Islami, a militant Islamist group the U.S. government classifies as a terrorist organization. The military has previously given the man's name as Gouled Hassan Dourad. It also says he was an al Qaeda cell leader in Djibouti and was part of a group that killed Ethiopians in the Somali capital of Mogadishu in 2002. Ahmed declined to attend an administrative hearing at the Guantanamo U.S. naval base in Cuba on April 28 to assess whether he had been properly classified as an "enemy combatant." About 380 suspected al Qaeda or Taliban fighters are still being held at the U.S. military prison on the base. But he submitted a written statement to the hearing officers, according to the censored transcript. In it, Ahmed acknowledged receiving paramilitary training in Afghanistan and said he fought alongside al-Ittihad al-Islami but never joined the group and had no links to al Qaeda. "My training was solely for the purpose of fighting in Somalia, but not against Americans," he wrote. "I did fight jihad alongside al-Ittihad against Ethiopians, which is my right to do," Ahmed was quoted as saying. "If Ethiopian ... military members came to Mogadishu, I would defend against them. That is my right to do as a Somali but it is against my religious beliefs to fight against civilians." The transcript did not contain details of the fighting. Somalia has been in chaos since the overthrow of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991. Ethiopia has sent troops into Somalia to attack radical Islamist groups it suspects could stir up trouble in the ethnically Somali regions on its side of the border. Ahmed is one of 15 "high value" prisoners sent to the Guantanamo base after being held in secret CIA prisons. He said in his note to the hearing officers that he was arrested in 2004, but the circumstances of his capture have not been made public. To classify him as an "enemy combatant" the hearing officers would have to find that he supported al Qaeda or other forces engaged in hostilities against the United States and its coalition partners. The Air Force colonel who headed the three-person panel had to ask another officer who prepared the case which of the nations mentioned at the hearing were U.S. coalition partners. "Somalia is not; Ethiopia is; and Kenya is, a coalition partner of the United States," that officer was quoted as replying. Washington Post

^^^^ All of us will have died of old age. Xiinow, can you tell my pessimism has reached an all time high?

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: Somaliland being one party has already put its case forth, the missing part is you Somalia. When Insha Allah somalia gets reall President trusted by the people of Somalia then Somaliland and Somallia shall come to the table to discuss where to go from there. Probably Somalia would need to take vote based on those who would want Somaliand to secede and those who don't. Based on what I am hearing the majority of Southerners don't mind secession. Red, while many here would argue against the legitimacy of the secession cause, I'm more interested in its history. You may not know this but do you have any idea who the god father of the movement is? And when did it first appear in the discourse? It may be that the secession of Somaliland is a forgone matter but I dare those who're for or against it to answer the questions I asked above. I sure don't know the answers.

^^ Oh but it is effective. I guess you missed this line: According to U.S. defense contractor sources, the project will cost several billion dollars and was prompted by fears that growing anarchy and unrest in Iraq will spill into Saudi Arabia. So the perpetrator of the "growing anarchy" is also the "contractor" building the fence. Now that is a diversified portfolio. Destroy (somewhere) first then rebuild (everywhere) later.

^^^ If it is, what does it signify?

^^^^ You know what I've wondered about for a long time? Unlike other declared secession movements around the world that go on for many years, that of Somaliland seemingly came out of no where. In other words, prior to the late 80's and early 90's, few have ever heard of the concept. Then suddenly it spread like wildfire. In fact, many of its most rabid supporters are either too young to remember that era or happily live in the diaspora. Who was the genius who sold this idea? He (or they) must have delivered the most successful marketing campaign in the history of Somalia. Almost forgot. Happy Birthday.

The $14 million given to Kenya pales in comparison to the damage Somalia can do to Kenya by stopping the import of Qaad. But we'd rather keep the party going.