^^^^ I'm flattered atheer, really. Castro adeer you were supporting Somaliland even though it was occupied by Ethiopia since 1991. The fact that Somaliland was being occupied by Ethiopia didn’t matter to you, and was irrelevant. That was my claim. It isn't exactly factual. It was my way of showing an occupier doesn't have to use force. I am flattered, again, you'd take my words as law. From there it is quite clear that you don’t position Ethiopia as your enemy; it is merely where your interest lies. You were with them when they were supporting your secessionist game but as soon as they started supporting the tfg they became your enemy. LOL. I can't decide which I hate more, the TFG, Ethiopia or secession. That order would be fair though. I think you may be suffering from what Ngonge lovingly refers to as comprehension deficit. Keep at it though. There's always hope. Wa salaam.

And with that, I think, we have given this argument a through going examination, if I may say so myself; hence it merely compels me to say it's time to call it a day, if, that is you would agree to it, from your end. Dear Mr. Oodweyne, I must admit your courage, as Xiin put, is admirable and I shall let you off the hook. But just to recap ( ), you admit the SNM was both a guerilla force and a political movement. In fact, it was the only entity vying for and had control of the Northwest post Barre. Second, the said referendum was hardly a referendum in so far as it didn't really refer any votes to the entire public concerned as the very definition of a referendum indicates. Third, secession was never discussed publicly (and if privately, never documented) as a goal of the national liberation movement prior to the nefarious declaration in 1991. Since you have agreed to all of the above, albeit reluctantly, you must then agree that a cabal within the upper echelons of the SNM (regardless of their motive) is responsible for hijacking its agenda and conning a traumatized, gullible public to go along with this evidently fraudulent idea of secession.

Originally posted by Northerner: quote:Originally posted by AAliyah416: you consistently pick on pro-united Somali Solers ??? Who are these pro-unity SOLers ya Castarow? I think she's referring to SOL's resident generals, emperors and chiefs.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: I can tell you though a lot of people are no longer talking about Ethiopian occupation and muqaawamah, and their efforts are focused getting their city back. Perhaps that’s what Ethiopia hopped from this. Classic divide and conquer. You got it saaxib.

^^^^ That's not very far from the truth. I've always had buyer's remorse with the idea. Secession just never sat well with me. I now see it for what it is. Better late than never, I suppose.

Listen, atheer Aaliyah, you probably are devastated with the "invasion and occupation" of Laas Caanood and it is why you're not your usual soft and religious self. I understand and sympathize with your anger and frustration and will, therefore, find it in myself to forgive your little outbursts. However, can you imagine my anger and frustration when my entire country has been invaded and occupied by Ethiopians? It's all relative, dear. Wa salaam.

Can anyone think of why Meles chooses to support Somaliland over Puntland in this Laas Caanood saga? Why have the Ethiopians been mute on these latest developments? knowing that no needle drops anywhere in Somalia without their approval, the least they could have done is ask for "restraint". One would also think Meles is grateful to Puntland for providing militia to help Tigray troops chase "terrorists" in Muqdisho? Why would he then summon Cadde to Addis Ababa and give the tacit green light to Riyaale in the meantime to invade ( ) Laas Caanood? This makes no sense. Surely, Riyaale is no more a dabo-dhilif than Cadde or Yey are.

^^^^ You know I'm doing a good job when I've got both Oodweyne and Aaliyah bent out of shape on the same day.

Originally posted by AAliyah416: The reality is Laascaanod Somalia is under the control of Somaliland Ethiopia by force. Tunnel vision? Think outside the box. Apparently many of you cant [face] the reality as it is, and rather manipulate it to serve ur own interest. How pathetic !!! How pathetic indeed.

Dear Mr. Oodweyne, where is it recorded the SNM had a liberation "arm" to fight genocidal Barre and a political "arm" to decide on political matters such as secession? Isn't it entirely expedient, sir, specially for a student of history and politics such as yourself, to employ such a half-baked, revisionist narrative claiming "clan elders" where in fact responsible for the call to secession? Is it not true, sir, that the SNM was both a guerilla and a political movement in one? Or did you think all SOLers are too young to know any better. Ma calayna. What is this referendum of secession to which you refer? Are you trying to tell us now that in 1991, every adult inhabitant of the Northwestern province of Somalia was asked to choose between Somalia and Somaliland and the majority chose the latter?

Originally posted by Oodweyne: But, be that as it, with Marxist’s Theory of Society been taken into account and all; could you see to it, if you wished to be taken seriously in here, see to it to level with us; particularly, as to why what you hold to be truth - i.e., historical truth - ought to be something that we should entertained seriously, which is your take of Somaliland's destiny. I do not know Somaliland's destiny (nor of Somalia or any other entity). What I do know is the absence of secession in the vernacular of the Somali National Movement up to and including the defeat of Barre's troops in the Northwest. Furthermore, I do know that seceding from Somalia was never written down in any manifesto, memoir, book or any other publicly made literature prior to the infamous declaration of independence. When a small cabal decided to go it alone, all they had to do to sell their unpopular idea is remind a traumatized population of Barre's atrocities and scare them with the mess that is the rest of Somalia. Fear, my friend, is how elites control populations. It works the same in any country.

^^^ He neither has political power nor does he get summoned to Addis Ababa, so no, he's not a stooge. Just imagine, however, if he spent a fraction of his energy on denouncing the occupation of Somalia as he does on the Laas Caanood non-issue? Perhaps the institution of Garaadism is a powerful one but this particular Garaad may be ill-suited for it.

^^^ Agreed. Except, that truth you stated bestows no legitimacy on Somaliland.

KA: GARAD JAMA GARAD ALI. 21/10/2007 KU: CIDII AY KHUSAYSO. Does anyone have a copy of the letter the Garaad wrote to Meles Zenawi when he invaded Somalia?

^^^ What can I say? I'm always overwhelmed by your simple, concise and impenetrable arguments for secession. Northerner, the fraudulent secession idea has been exposed and has failed miserably. Oodweyne sees the danger in what I say, and rightly so, and that's why he must resort to ad hominems. Still, I'm not asking you to abandon it [secession] because of its failure now but because it was wrong all along. You must see it for what it is, a failed attempt at dismembering an already pathetically weak state. Partition based, no less, on the flimsiest of pretenses: colonial past. As is the custom, few internal elites and their external backers will benefit the most. If you can't see the scenery for the wagon is moving "rather fast", may be it is time to slow down.

Ethiopia denies ONLF attack claim BBC NEWS The Ethiopian government has denied the rebel ****** National Liberation Front's claim to have inflicted heavy losses on government forces. An ONLF statement said its forces had killed 140 soldiers during the battle near the eastern town of Wardheer. It said an unnamed senior Ethiopian official was visiting the area when the ONLF staged its attack. The Ethiopian government has denied its forces were attacked, and says the ONLF lacked the strength for such an attack. Government spokesman Zemedkun Tekle dismissed the ONLF claims. "I don't believe they have killed even one. I don't think it is true. We believe that ONLF is not in a position to make this kind of attack," he told the AP news agency. The authorities have barred aid workers and journalists from going to the eastern ****** region since the ONLF began a new offensive earlier this year. Last week, aid agencies reached an agreement with the government in Addis Ababa to provide emergency supplies for civilians in the region. The ONLF was founded in 1984 and is fighting for independence from Ethiopia, complaining of discrimination by the central government against the region's Somali-speaking nomads. Source © BBC MMVII

^^^^ Take your trolling to the General section. Northerner, you've been riding the secession wagon too long. It's high time you got off. The wheels of the wagon itself are about to come off. Think about it, the cognitive dissonance caused by this secession idea will no longer be in your thoughts. You will think clearly saaxib.

Originally posted by Suldaanka: It isn't unique to Somaliland Somalia to have people of different opinions and point of views, we respect their position but this country can't afford to be divided into mini-me-lands. Think outside the box.

The Indelibles Friday, Apr. 10, 1964 If one-party democracy is often hard to tell from no-party dictatorship in Africa, Somalia is an exuberant exception. Election day brought 1,000,000 Somalis to the polls to choose among 21 political parties, including one fringe group running on the single fervent conviction that the country should import only Fiats, to ease the shortage of auto parts. If the proliferation of parties resembled the nightmare of French politics before De Gaulle, the Somalis' fist-swinging, rock-throwing, vote-early-and-often electioneering style seemed more like vintage Chicago. With African differences. One difference is the absence of any means of voter registration. Instead, election officials traditionally dab each voter's hand with indelible ink to discourage indefatigable repeaters. But the ink always proved delible, the voters not so easily defatigable. In one previous election, the obscure hamlet of Aden Yaval racked up twice the votes of the capital city of Mogadishu with 150,000 inhabitants. When municipal elections came around last fall, Mogadishu's voters prepared for their battle against indelibility by emptying the stores of nail-polish remover and other ink-deleting fluids days in advance of elections. But determined experimenters soon discovered that the allegedly indelible inks could be removed by home solvents ranging from gasoline to papaya juice. Faced with such voter cunning, the Interior Ministry before the latest election grappled for weeks with the delibility factor, finally developed an ink so potent that many a horny-handed Somali ballot stuffer came down with a skin rash. That took care of most repeaters. Despite scattered reports of overenthusiastic balloting, not to mention a slight riot (13 dead, 20 hurt), Somalia's election was the straightest in its young history—and one of the freest in all Africa. All but final results announced last week gave the ruling, middle-road Somali Youth League of Premier Ab-dirashid Ali Shermarke 68 of 123 seats in the unicameral National Assembly. The Somali election was exceptional in one other respect: it was held in the midst of a continuing shooting war, the border conflict with Ethiopia. Last week Ethiopian fighter-bombers pulled a surprise daylight raid on the Somali town of Hargeisa—less than 17 hours before the agreed start of an armistice between the two nations. The Somalis, who like fighting as much as voting, were not too perturbed. As Prime Minister Shermarke observed: "We can teach Ethiopia that democracy can be practiced while people defend their soil." Source

Blood on the Horn Friday, Feb. 14, 1964 On the horn of Africa, a man would cut a throat for a camel. Since Somalia won its independence in 1960, throats have been cut in plenty as lithe, black, spear-swinging Somali nomads crossed with their herds into neighboring Kenya and Ethiopia to fight over water rights and grazing lands. Last week the cost of a camel was approximately war, and blood spilled on the horn. First, a band of 300 Somali shiftas (bandits) slipped across the border and shot up the Ethiopian crossroads town of Jijiga. Then the Ethiopians, after scanning the 30 bodies their troops had cut down, claimed that the raiders were led by a uniformed Somali army officer. Haile Selassie's Cabinet declared a state of emergency, claiming that 2,000 Somali regulars had crossed the border. Somalia alerted its own army, reported that eight Ethiopian armored cars had been destroyed in the border fight. By week's end both sides had called a "cease-fire," but the problem was nowhere near solution. In a welter of charges and countercharges, Somali pride stood in bristling opposition to the Lion of Judah. Frankincense & Myrrh. Of all the nations in East Africa, none combines poverty and pugnacity as completely as Somalia. Outside the capital, its 2,000,000 inhabitants—99% Moslem and 90% illiterate—earn a meager $10 a year on the average, mainly by herding goats, sheep and camels over the parched grasslands of the interior. The country has no deep-water ports, no railroad, in a land half again the size of California. As if to cement its image of Biblical backwardness, Somalia brags of its exotic exports—frankincense and myrrh. But for all its poverty, Somalia is a stiff-necked nation. Its people pride themselves on their Hamitic heritage, their nomad hardiness. No Somali youth feels secure without an iron bracelet—won only by killing two men in combat. Argumentative and fiercely antiauthoritarian, the Somalis are often called the "Irish of Africa," although as Moslems they prefer cold camel's milk to a headier gargle. Well-meaning foreigners who stroll into their quaint, collapsible villages (stick-and skin aghals that can be packed onto camelback in a matter of minutes) often find themselves on the receiving end of accurately thrown stones as the Somalis scream, "Out with the infidel!" Even Mogadishu, Somalia's sunny, somnolent capital (pop. 150,000), has a perennial air of impermanence, particularly in the rainy season, when some of its mud buildings show a disconcerting tendency to melt into the gutters. Despite the heat and squalor, Mogadishu is a center of political and intellectual ferment. Politicians representing one or another of Somalia's ten parties argue vociferously in gritty coffee shops —a rare sight in a New Africa that is moving steadily toward one-party government systems. There is spirited debate in Parliament, and although the commonest sound on the streets is still the beggar's cry for "Baksheesh!," there is plenty of free and strident speech to counterpoint it. Like all Somali politicians, Premier Abdirashid Ali Shermarke cries stridently for a "Greater Somalia," which would include the disputed portions of Kenya and Ethiopia traditionally cruised by wandering Somali herdsmen. In recent years, the nomads have added Sten guns to their spears, and the once-shiftless shiftas have taken on the determined air of guerrillas. For all his violent expansionism, Shermarke is basically a reasonable man. A heavyset, introspective ex-clerk of 44, Shermarke was educated at Mogadishu's Institute of Law and Economics, took honors in political science studies at Rome. Although his Somali Youth League party is expected to retain power in next month's election, Premier Shermarke himself may well give way to his Foreign Minister, Abdullah Issa Mohamud. But whoever succeeds Shermarke will have to carry the torch for territorial expansion. Though ten foreign nations ranging from Red China to the U.S. have inundated Somalia with $250 million in foreign aid (including ports, highways and macaroni factories), what Somalia really wants is a strong army. Last year, after dickering with the U.S., Italy and West Germany, Somalia accepted a Russian offer of $30 million in military assistance —enough to equip and train a 20,000-man force. Already some 300 Somali army officers are training in Moscow. If the border dispute with Ethiopia does escalate into full-scale war, the world will find itself faced with another sore spot in Africa. Source Ngonge, did you say "nothing stays as it is forever"?

Nomad Nation Of the new nations born last week, none faced bleaker prospects than the Somali Republic. Combining the former Italian and British colonies on Africa's horn, the country is largely a desert plateau, studded with anthills as tall as a man, and roamed by a Moslem nomadic people whose per capita income from their herds is just $10 a year. In a way, Somalia's only asset for nationhood is a small group of capable, moderate leaders. They bear no grudge against the West, because they bear no scars of a struggle for independence. Standard bearer of freedom in the old Italian colony (pop. 1,500,000) is Abdullahi Issa, 38. His counterpart in the old British colony (pop. 640,000) is a British-educated rich man's son, Mohammed Ibrahim Egal, 32. When Issa brought up independence last year, Italy told him he could have it whenever he liked. Egal promptly asked for permission to join his colony to the new nation. Britain readily agreed. The two men quickly worked out a merger agreement, and last week the two legislatures simply combined. As the Somali Republic's Provisional President, Issa and Egal agreed on Aden Abdullah Osman, 51. Once a medical student, long a civil servant, Aden Abdullah is the closest thing Somalia has to a father of the country. Aden Abdullah's main job will simply be to keep the country afloat, a task that the World Bank estimates will take $6,000,000 a year in outside aid. Yet to the new officialdom, optimism came easy last week in the sidewalk espresso shops of sun-scorched Mogadishu, the capital and only major city, where the hot monsoon sometimes blows hard enough to whip off the tablecloths. Construction was being rushed on two jerry-built but air-conditioned hotels. And like tribalists all over Africa, Somalis were talking ambitiously of redrawing the borders imposed by the white men to reunite their fellow tribesmen. Over the years, as their own land eroded, Somalis have settled thickly in the fertile regions of northern Kenya and eastern Ethiopia. Besides these areas, Greater Somalia would also include French Somaliland and its deep-water port of Djibouti. But however desirable from the Somali point of view, the plan was not likely to make for cordial relations with Somalia's neighbors. July 11, 1960

""Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith." Hadith Saxiix. Bosaaso (and Puntland in general) is reaping what it sowed in Somalia. A clan fiefdom that chose to support the invading army of Ethiopia against their own brothers and sisters. Fear not, the other clan fiefdom, though not as overtly involved in their support, will also get what's coming to them. Of course, the administrations are responsible for this calamity and the public, wherever they are, are misguided into their demise. Repeat after me: either we all have peace and prosperity or non of us will.

Originally posted by Garyaqaan*: Dear Sophist brother, things happen for a resean. Today we know [as Somalis] the error we made. In sha alaah when [all] our ppl are united. I asure you, you will see politacl advaced very fast. As of right know take a deep breath and let it go. I am sure reer hargeeysa Adis Ababa will never hold that city country for long. Think outside the box.

It has become a habit for the stooges in Garowe Hargeisa to blame all their mistakes on phantom Argagixiso. If their utter incompetency wasn't enough for these people to go away quietly in shame, they have audacity to call every news portal, and cry wolf. It has become a habit for the stooges in Garowe Muqdisho to blame all their mistakes on phantom Argagixiso. If their utter incompetency wasn't enough for these people to go away quietly in shame, they have audacity to call every news portal, and cry wolf. Just helping connect the dots, Che.

^^^^ Who wants to hear your version of the truth you clannist bigot? You probably want Laas Caanood to burn and all its inhabitants to be servants in the homes of secessionists in Hargeisa. The good news is, deep thinkers (and occasional warriors) of this forum and the homeland can clearly see through your spin and secession sympathizing. They see your lies for what they are. They will continue to raise their money in the diaspora so they could retake the 2 kilometers they lost to the secessionist cowards. And when Allah has bestowed victory upon them over the secessionist traitors, they, who cheered the invasion of Ethiopia, will come on these boards and show us pictures of their glorious victory over the enemy. They will rejoice in their unprecedented bravery and strategic military planning. Meanwhile, their leaders will be summoned to Addis Ababa and spanked like the dabo-dhilifs they really are. Shame on you for spreading these lies yaa Fatah_Al_Soomaal. Shame on you.