What a sight to behold: Xiin sandwiched between a Blue and a Brown Faarax. So dhowoow indeed, atheer Brownow. Farah Blue is a good guy. There are others on this forum I'd like for you to "take care of".

No talk of innocence, atheer. Just due process, jurisdiction, hiding under the cloak of Sharia and using real blood for propaganda purposes. Those are the issues being discussed. Originally posted by Jaylaani: ISN'T HE ONE OF THE MAJOR ONES? To be fair, yes, but he's no longer. He's a former warlord/strong man. Now he's the head of a state. I'm pretty sure the Somaliland executive branch knows a thing or two about how that process works. Ilaahayow sidan noo dhaam.

^ Xamareey xaalkaa ba'. "The warlords, through US support, have caused so many deaths of innocent civilians in the recent fighting in Mogadishu," said Abdullahi Yuusuf. He's certainly saying the right things but is it too little, too late?

^ I have little doubt the pictures are authentic and that a man was either killed or severly wounded. This was no play-acting, make no mistake about it. Muqdisho residents don't waste their time coming out in mid-day sun unless real blood is being shed. As sad as that is, it is also true. But everything else outside of these pictures is questionable. The motives, the beneficiaries, the victims and the real perpetrators are all intertwined and interconnected. It's bloody mess indeed and very indicative of the bleak future we face. As for Abdillahi Yuusuf (and the TFG), well, if he would stay in Somalia long enough instead of collecting frequent flier miles all over the world, he may actually make a difference, however small. At this time, he and his government are not even marginal players on the scene.

There seems little doubt of the guilt of the accused but what jurisdiction does this so-called court have? None, if you read the "news" on Somali websites. "Islamic" court or not, if what Nayruus just posted is true and looking at the manner with which the execution was carried out, it is an illegal execution civilly and Islamicly. The credibility of many Somali news sites is almost non-existent. The brutality of Somalis towards each other in Muqdisho is abundant and well documented. The politics of this whole saga and who tried to "frame" whom is irrelevant. After nearly two decades of wallowing in manure, everyone (including the "courts") is knee-deep in it.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Castro, either Somali is very difficult for you to read or you are in one of your former modes again. Doofaar ma daahiraa la yidhi. War ileen balaayo. LOL. Atheer maxaa ku qaatay? What's with the harrassment old man? Not even the Xoogsade principle is applicable here for you're neither a female nor am I a goat herder on Brokeback mountain.

Sheikh Nurow, turn the other cheek atheer, waxba inagama xumanayaane halganka halkaa inooga wad.

Dhaqan toosinta iyo ka hortaga xumaanta? The promotion of virtue and prevention of vice? These courts will find little support among Muqdishu residents if this is how they'll conduct their business. This is grandstanding at its worst and plays right into the hands of the warlords and the so-called anti-terror coalition. Ya Allah. If people are not suffering under a warlord, a rabid "sheikh" awaits.

^ Compassion? In Muqdishu? Have you lost your mind woman? The crowds get turned on by this. Look at all the kids the adults brought with them. It's a family day out. Unforunately, that is one city with residents who are completely desensitized to violence. And that may be the saddest thing of all.

Originally posted by ThePoint: hmmm - why did they make it a public spectacle - more like showmanship by the 'Islamic' judges than anything else. YAY Somalia! Retribution is the Islamic way to go. So is forgiveness. The public scene is definitely political shock and awe. Reminds me of the public shootings of "criminals" at the famous Tiirka in Muqdishu in the 1980's. I remember walking there to watch the public executions and then going all the way to the wooden poles to get close to the blood and bullet fragments. It was fascinating as it was scary. The intended effect never failed, however, as everyone cowered away to their homes in fear and awe of Afweyne.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Why not watch the debate unfold then, good Castro? Fair yaa sheikh Xiin but let good Nur stick to domestic affairs (non-women) and you handle the foreign ones. Whether you admit it publicly or not, you're an eNuri and there's no shame in that game. However, sheikh Nur is a little too passionate and injects much emotion into his repertoire. Works great on someone like me but sounds quite cheezy, not to mention weak, to Cara, I suspect. I don't know. It's the whole lets-corner-this-agnostic-into-submission philosophy that I see as fruitless. May be it's the only way. Maybe there is no way until someone seeks the light himself. I don't mean to demean the good sheikh but he needs to sharpen his skills. A few Deedat dvds may do the trick. Xiinow, I'd have said nothing had Cara accepted his challenge and made this into discussion. And if she returns, I'll just as soon return to my spot under the rock.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Adigaa qudhaaduu ku sigay ee waadan malaha is ogeyn adeer . Not quite. I actually caught the real bug (latent TB infection). It went away, though, with antibiotics as most cases of love do.

Originally posted by Nur: my objective on this forum and this thread is clear, I want tgo expose to a non suspecting crowd fundementally different ideas that are being mixed with Islamic topics in order to cast doubt on innocent browser of SOL. Sheikh Nuroow, what "fundamentally different ideas" do you suspect have infiltrated the forum? How easy, do you think, will it be to convince an Atheist or an Agnostic to embrace Islam using dialog on a forum? Furthermore, how easy is it to convince a Muslim to reject his faith, and publicly no less? In the 1950's, a US republican senator by the name of McCarthy conducted a "witch hunt", later to be known as the Red Scare, targeting communists and communist-sympathizers. The most memorable question asked of an accused was: "are you now, or have you ever been a member of the communist party?". I brought that up since you reminded me of McCarthy with your paragraph above. Atheer your intentions are wholesome, I'm sure, but your delivery when it comes to engaging the so called infiltrators and their sympathizers fares no better than, say, a Khayr's. It's crude, condescending and controversial. If the non-believers repulse you so much, don't engage them. If you have an uncontrollable urge to save them, make sure they stay long enough to hear your message. Otherwise, stick to preaching to the faithful. I assure you we need it. Originally posted by Pi: Ummm, this thread is wrong on so many levels, I dont even know where to start. I dont even think Cara should respond to what's been written. It's all irrelevant. I too am beginning to wonder just what the good sheikh is really good at.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Malaha war la'aan baa ku haysee cishqigu dad badan buu laayey. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if many of these so-called deaths attributed to cishq were, in fact, battles lost to Tuberculosis, Typhoid, Malaria, Cholera or many other communicable diseases as the symptoms would have largely been the same.

Wherever one goes in search of this hadith, Sahiih Al-Bukhari (Vol. 1, Book 6, Number 301), one finds a strange song and dance about how the translation and/or context of this hadith is misunderstood, misquoted or misapplied. Did Muhammad (scw) refer to women as such or was he referring to all of humanity? Is their a linguistic issue, in fact, of the Arabic language that may explain why it comes across in the English language as the words of a mysogynist? Does context play a role in this at all? Without resorting to score-keeping, name calling, your-faith-is-weak-and-you're-close-to-kufr or some other nonsensical diversion from a discussion, it would be instructive if time were taken to dig deeper (as Xiin began but left off). No one is here to jeopordize their salvation for a chance to win a forum argument. If we're unwilling, or unable, to dig deeper, let us abandon this and talk of summer vacation destinations. Originally posted by S.O.S: I don’t have the time to explain here the meaning of revelation, the concept of prophethood, message-messenger relations and the deliverance thereof (i.e. Qur’an and Sunnah), but I urge you to distance yourself from all the misinformed statements you've made so far (very dangerously loosley, may I warn!). What, then, do you have time for SOS? Or do you come to these forums to shake your head in pity at all those whom you routinely, and effectively, label lost?

My man JB, since you're a man of logic, here are some "proofs" that may (or not) be of interest to you. And though they're certainly high on the oouucc factor, they show how sophistry can be a powerful tool. But Nur didn't resort to that. Remember that he wants to save you from a one way ticket to eternal damnation. A worthy goal indeed. And you are in turn wanting him to lighten up and quit wasting his time believing in the unseen. Another worthy goal, on its own, except it is in direct conflict with the first goal. While you think of that conundrum, enjoy these proofs below (and keep a barf bag handy ): Inspired by this story I found on the Daily Grail, here are a number of mathematical “proofs†of God! Is there anything to any of these, or is it simply more proof that one can prove anything with numbers? From the link above: Albert Einstein’s equation states that Energy = Mass x C2. The law of physics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Which means the energy that created the universe cannot have a beginning nor an end. Also, there must be something that existed before the universe and that will continue to exist after the universe. That is the definition of God. By applying Albert Einstein’s formula, the universe must have a creator because the universe has mass (M). God does not need a creator because God does not have mass (M). God is energy (E). Thus when people ask the question, “If God created mankind, who created God?â€, they mistakenly imagine God as having a form or mass. Only mass needs a creator, not energy. The creator of mass is of course, energy. The theory of God’s existence is in line with mathematical theory. Here’s Godel’s Ontological Proof (which uses Modal Logic): We first assume the following axiom: Axiom 1: It is possible to single out positive properties from among all properties. Gödel defines a positive property rather vaguely: “Positive means positive in the moral aesthetic sense (independently of the accidental structure of the world)… It may also mean pure attribution as opposed to privation (or containing privation).†(Gödel 1995) We then assume that the following three conditions hold for all positive properties (which can be summarized by saying “the positive properties form an ultrafilterâ€): Axiom 2: If P is positive and P entails Q, then Q is positive. Axiom 3: If P1, P2, P3, …, Pn are positive properties, then the property (P1 AND P2 AND P3 … AND Pn) is positive as well. Axiom 4: If P is a property, then either P or its negation is positive, but not both. Finally, we assume: Axiom 5: Necessary existence is a positive property (Pos(NE)). This mirrors the key assumption in Anselm’s argument. Now we define a new property G: if x is an object in some possible world, then G(x) is true if and only if P(x) is true in that same world for all positive properties P. G is called the “God-like†property. An object x that has the God-like property is called God. Here’s a very long (no excerpts) proof of God based on Gematria in the Koran! Here’s a “simple†version of George Hammond’s “Scientific Proof of God†Because the 3-Axis geometry of the body is caused by the 3-Axis geometry of real-space, the curvature in Psychometry space is obviously caused by the curvature in real space, which is known to be “Gravityâ€. Hence, “Gravity causes God†and the whole theory of God is identical to the theory of Relativity. The Metrical identity [XYZt]=[ENPg] immediately yield’s God=Guv. QED, there is a real God. Finally, here’s a proof from a Medieval Monk named Guido Ubaldus: 0 = 0 + 0 + 0 + … = (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + … = 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + … = 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + … = 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + … = 1 Now, I’m no mathematician and have no desire to agree or disagree with any of these, but aren’t they interesting? Source

Sheikh Nur is somewhat fond of grandstanding but I worry that even with the right message, he may reap the wrong outcome.

Originally posted by S.O.S: I would like to express my satisfaction towards the steps taken by the Sudanese council of religious scholars, by issuing an all inclusive and detailed denunciation of his fallacious and blasphemous crimes (against Allah, His Book and prophets), and its rebuttal thereof point by point: Does Hassan El-Turabi have any legal Islamic standing for his Fatwa? His intentions are hardly the issue here. Furthermore, it would be instructive if someone posted the said "detailed denunciation" of his "blasphemous crimes".

Naden, Xiin and others, good discussion. Al-Turabi's fatwa in Sudan is also generating some thought provoking issues. I thought you all might be interested in this: Morocco gets first women preachers Friday 28 April 2006 5:45 AM GMT The idea took off after the May, 2003 attacks in Casablanca Morocco has just graduated its first team of women preachers to be deployed as a vanguard in its fight against any slide towards Islamic extremism. "This is a rare experiment in the Muslim world," proudly stated Muhammad Mahfudh, director of the centre attached to the Islamic affairs ministry that trained this first class of 50 women. Ministry spokesman Hamid Rono said it was the "first (of its kind) in the Islamic world". This pioneer group of Murshidat, or guides, who finished a 12-month course in early April, were trained to "accompany and orient" Muslim faithful, notably in prisons, hospitals and schools, said Mahfudh. They will earn a salary of 5,000 dirhams ($560) a month. Samira Marzouk, in her 30s like most of the others, exclaims how "proud" she is to be part of this first group. She sees their mission as one to "fill in the gaps that prevent a solid framework for religion". "We are going to teach a tolerant Islam by focussing on the underprivileged classes." "The Morshidat will be in charge of leading religious discussions, give lessons in Islam, give moral support to people in difficulty and guide the faithful towards a tolerant Islam" The idea of the Murshidat, spearheaded by King Mohammed VI and the government, took off after Islamic extremist attacks in the Casablanca on May 16, 2003 claimed 45 lives and left dozens of others wounded. The King who had already started reshaping religious structures to rein in any extremist drift in his North African country, which borders Algeria where violence between government forces and armed Islamic extremists has caused more than 150,000 deaths since 1992. But the synchronised suicide bomb attacks that struck Jewish and foreign targets gave new urgency to the initiative. More than 2,000 people were arrested in vast police sweeps after the May bombings as the king pledged that the attacks would be the last to rock Morocco. Investigators concluded that those behind the incident had indeed sought recruits in the teeming slums around Casablanca, the kingdom's biggest city. Marzuk, with a diploma in Arab literature who said she knew the Quran by heart, was quick to specify she was "not going to take the place of an imam". "The imamate in Islam is restricted solely to men who are apt at leading prayers, notably those on Friday," she said. "The Morshidat will be in charge of leading religious discussions, give lessons in Islam, give moral support to people in difficulty and guide the faithful towards a tolerant Islam," she added. Another graduate, Laila Faris, a lively young woman who holds a degree in Islamic studies, said she saw the Murshidat's role as promoting "the true face of Islam". "We will help attenuate any drift towards Islamic extremism," she said, stressing that "an overall approach is needed to dealing with radical Islam". During the year-long course, the curriculum ranged from Islamic studies to psychology, sociology, computer skills, economy, law and business management. "We will help attenuate any drift towards Islamic extremism... an overall approach is needed to dealing with radical Islam" Laila Faris, another pioneering Murshida Sports was the only subject dropped from the women preachers' training because the schedule was just too tight," regretted Mahfudh, who hopes to include it for the second batch of Murshidat trainees, whose applications are now being accepted. For the Islamic affairs minister, Ahmed Taoufiq, the Murshidat will also "instruct women on their basis religious duties". He said religious radicalism was not part of Morocco's culture "but you can never prevent evil one hundred percent". Morocco's Islamic fundamentalists are divided over the initiative. For one, Islamist deputy Mustafa Ramid with the Islamist Justice and Development party (PJD), the main opposition group with 43 seats in the 325-member parliament, the Murshidat is a "positive" development. "I see nothing more to say about this initiative because in Islam, men and women are equal," he said, pointing to Egypt which has "eminent women scholars of Islam". But the head of the youth group in Morocco's most radical Islamic fundamentalist association, Al-Adl Wal-Ihssane (Justice and Welfare), forecast it would have no effect on the ground. "The power behind this initiative is the same as the one that commits acts contrary to Islam, notably degrading moral values," said Hasan Bennajih, whose group is part of an Islamist movement that preaches non-violence and is unrecognized by authorities, but still influential. "This initiative, then, will only have a limited impact on the population," said Hasan Bennajih. Source

Siyaad Barre was a decent man. He was also the twice-removed-great-uncle of my third cousin. To all of you haters out there who suffered his (intentional) cruelty and brutality, tough luck. You just didn't belong to the right clan and there ain't a damn thing we can do for you. To those who belonged to his clan but still got stiffed by our great leader, tough luck as well. You can submit your cries in the form of a river. But to all those who miss him (as I do) and the good life he provided us, I say rejoice for we are soon to be with him again. In Hell, Allah willing.

Was the Aubergine weeping or bleeding by any chance? Specially from the eyes? :rolleyes: Ya Allah.

Interesting thoughts Naden. Invariably, you will be advised to submit first then ask questions later. Not bad advice, ostensibly, but deeper inspection might reveal lack of knowledge (on matters you query) on the donor's side. My suspicion is the answers you seek may not be found here (or other similar quarters). What you can do is share these answers when, or if, you find them. Good day and good luck.

^ Right on indeed. Stranded Palestinians spark concern The UN has expressed concern about 89 Palestinians, nearly half of them children, who fled from Baghdad and are stuck in a desert strip between Iraq and Jordan since Sunday. The group, which includes two elderly people and three with medical problems, is in an "extremely precarious situation" in the harsh desert climate, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) said on Tuesday. "We understand the group has little shelter and meagre food supplies. UNHCR's ability to protect and assist these refugees is extremely difficult because of our limited access to the border area," spokeswoman Jennifer Pagonis told a news briefing. Witnesses said the Jordanian authorities, fearful of a large influx from among the 34,000 Palestinian refugees estimated to be living in Iraq, closed the border on Sunday after a busload of Palestinians arrived. Hundreds of Iranian Kurds and Palestinians lived in no man's land for more than two years after the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The camp was closed in May 2005. The UNHCR said on Tuesday about 200 Iranian Kurds remained on the Iraqi side of the desert, but it was difficult to reach them. Fear of killings The Palestinians said the killings of fellow community members in Baghdad had forced them to flee. "We left Baghdad because the entire security situation has deteriorated to such an extent that we couldn't stay," said Ihab Tayem, one of the stranded Palestinians. Two members of the US-based Christian Peacemaker Teams in Baghdad, Peggy Gish and Beth Pyles, accompanied the group in an attempt to cross into Jordan late on Saturday. Gish, who is now in Amman, said Jordanian border officials refused the Palestinians entry, demanding they should return to Iraq. Jordan has said it will not take any refugees from Iraq, fearing another exodus to a country already burdened by Palestinians displaced in wars with Israel. Tayem, contacted by The Associated Press in the desert strip said at least 15 Palestinians had recently been killed in Baghdad, but "we don't know who is behind the slayings. We can't accuse anybody". Many of Iraq's Shias and Kurds, the two communities most oppressed under Saddam, view the Palestinians remaining in Iraq as sympathetic to the armed campaign wracking the country for nearly three years. Freezing conditions Tayem, who spoke by telephone, is serving as a spokesman for the stranded group, which includes his wife, their 18-month-old child and 15 other families. He said the group has only blankets for protection against the freezing desert temperature at night. "I've talked to the Red Cross in Amman who promised to do something to help us, but so far nothing has happened. Our food and water are quickly running out," Tayem said. Gish, of the Christian Peacemaker Teams, said she had no independent confirmation the Palestinians were targeted in Iraq, but added that her group was collecting testimonies from the Palestinians who had had family members killed recently. Iraq's toppled leader Saddam Hussein, provided Palestinians living in Iraq with some privileges, like free housing, state stipends and government jobs. The generosity he showed them enraged many Iraqis, who had to cope with the hardships of nearly 13 years of UN sanctions, which ended after Saddam's 2003 overthrow. Source

^ Atheer no one is out to get you. Your opinions are yours and no matter how they were formed, they're bound to change with time. A person's views on any subject is a function of their background, age, experiences, education, and attitude. Don't be so rigid and stick to your guns when someone clearly shows you the flaw in something you may hold dear. Explore the variety of opinions presented here. Read about more views in other sources. Research and understand what people are talking about. If you don't do any of the above, you risk being dismissed as a simpletion (which you're not) but even more importantly, you will go through life having not learned anything and neither have grown mentally or spiritually. This is the best advice you can get on these boards and it's absolutely free. Now make use of it.

I agree, maandhay ( ), this is not debatable unless, of course, you consider those whom faith (and abstinence) is not even an issue. When faced with a Talebanesque regime, such as that of Bush, in their view, it becomes a matter for debate. For example, even as a Muslim, would you vaccinate your 17 year old against HPV or hope and pray she abstains? I'd do both plus stalk her with high-tech gadgets that pinpoint her coordinates at all times. I will then be in a position to dispatch rapid-response teams should I feel she's ever in any danger. Problem solved.