Nur, you confuse nihilism with anarchism, but still very funny, if I may be allowed to say.

So, no one will me contact local-grown security firms?! Such a simple request is met with so much skepticism and sarcasm. PS, I'm pretty sure you all are confusing anarchism with social chaos, Nur included. If you want to understand what anarchists want (warlords are not anarchists, by the way, they are fascists), please take a minute to read this (yes, I know wikipedia is a naive way to view the world, but it's a good starting point): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism My last post in this thread. Peace.

Originally posted by Cara: There are many thugs for hire roaming around in parts of Somalia. Put them in dark suits and sunglasses, give them walkie-talkies, and presto! "Somali-owned private security agencies" Yes, that's true of any new system. Eventually, though, the thugs go out of business, and the good security firms make money and hire more people. That's how free-markets work, generally. So again, I'm hoping someone knows of some *ethical* security firms I can contact for investment. I imagine there are decent, respectful Somalis who want to help provide security, but are missing investment capital.

Where should I do this research into Somali-owned private security agencies? (besides this forum, I mean)

Flight 13? No, I'm not affiliated with any part of the US military, assuming that's what you are referring to. And for now, I'm not looking for protection for myself, but for Somalians living in Somalia. I'm trying to send some money (and maybe money from other American libertarians) to locally-owned private security agencies. Not to warlords (which are just little dictators, am I right?), or TFG, or ICU, or especially any American private agencies like Blackwater. No, I don't believe private-police can stop a rampaging army! Even so, private-police can prevent a lot of crime in any country, whether it's the US or Somalia. And yes, there are many places in the US which rely on Private Security. I believe that when *relative* peace is attainable, then local peoples do not demand that government come in with an army to "keep the peace". This helps to deflate the support of groups like TFG. When people can have simple security without government+taxes, then people may tell government to 'go away!' (which is what I'd love to hear Somalians say). I'm also hoping someone on these forums would actually take an this American seriously, and not assume I agree with the crap my own government spews. Please!

Sigh. No I don't live in the OC, and no I don't compare Somalia to Disneyland... Sounds like you have a stereotypical view of Americans. All I want to do is help in a small way the people of Somalia stand on their own, without the help of the TFG and other nationalists (including my own government). You all complain on this forum daily about the TFG--yet ridicule people (like myself) who wish to weaken them. How odd. So, is it my American-ness that annoys you, or is it my desire for less government? If it is *me being an American*, is there _anything_ I can do to prove that I am on the side of the average Somali?

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: Private security firm Mogadishu, Somalia contact person: Abdillahi Yusuf Ahmed and/or Prof. Geedi Tell No: ############ (someone should help me here ) I don't think you understand the concept of "private".

Private Security = Private Police = anti-Warlordism/Nationalism The corrupt and brutal security firms go bankrupt eventually, leaving the good ones remaining to provide the base needed for a healthy economy. (That's the theory anyway.) I'll message Nur, thank you for the tip.

Hi, I am a libertarian/anarchist living in California. I am looking to contact/contribute-to/help private security firms operating in greater Somalia. It seems to me the greatest obstacle to Somali's abandoning the lure of a republic is their security. So I want to help private security firms be successful in any small way I can. I want to help them replace the fascist warlordism that seems rampant. So, can anyone please suggest firms to contact?

edit: Ok, I'm ******. Didn't realize the OP was satirical

Originally posted by Emperor: ^Yes he was, Xiin I think there is good chance that Yaloxow would make great contribution to the findings of gavin. Gavin, I just forgot to say one thing, the man may speak many languages and I guess that includes English, however, his level of proudness, arrogance and self-liberty made him speak only Somali at all times, so Im afraid you would need to find an interpretter and have one ready at hand when conducting the interview just incase he's not in the mood... I appreciate your reply. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muuse_Suudi_Yalahow seems to be an interesting character. I would not call him a libertarian, he's almost the complete opposite actually (to me, someone like Henry David Thoreau would be a true libertarian).

(I know very little about Somalia, please have patience will this question.) Which section of Somalia (or which clan) shares the most similarities with libertarian-ideals? What I mean by libertarian-ideals is traditional law (Xeer without Shari'a, if I understand that correctly) which can evolve in modern times, greatest acceptance of non-Islamic religion, greatest acceptance of personal liberty, least acceptance of government, etc. Please omit Puntland and Somaliland, as they have a government. Please, I'm not trying to start a discussion about the dangers of anarchy--I'm just searching for information. Thank you.

Just an FYI, I made this thread because I wanted to gauge the level of liberty that Somalis wished for themselves. It seems that Somalis wish for smaller government, but also a more static law-base in Shari'a/Xeer which would be more difficult for the average citizen to modify (compared to the United States). It seems to me that the level of 'liberty', if it could ever be measured, would be higher in the US, Switzerland and Netherlands, than in this wished-for Somali nation. I have been strongly considering learning more of the language, buying property and living in Somalia some years from now, once I had been able to secure a bit of security. I love liberty and seek out the nation of people who love it most. So, this is one way I have been trying to figure out how much liberty the Somalis want for themselves. I've also been quizzing a local Somali who has not yet grown tired of my questions.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: What is this 'socialist republic' you speak of again? Do you really mean parliamentary democracies? And since when did UK and Sweden become 'republics?' Modern socialism followed by those countries such as Kanada, Sweden, Denmark and host of others, is a policy at most, not a system, that is followed by many other countries, both East and West, regardless of their governmental systems. PS, I did not vote since there is not a single indigenous, Soomaali-invented system that is unique to Soomaalis on there. I tried with the best of my knowledge to make a diverse list, but apparently it needs much work. What specifically would you add to this type of list that you would vote for?

Originally posted by Samurai Warrior: However, the experience was slightly different elsewhere in the country, and a classic example of that would be Puntland and Somaliland both of which institutionalized a sort of federal model of governance at different levels and with different results, and whilst the judiciary circuits in both administrations adhere to some form of Islamic Shari’a, neither desires to effect the strict format of the Shari’a law, for they could hardly deliver on such premise albeit the desired object to Sparta’s gates was just that. Beautifully written reply. A quick question, just to clarify. Somaliland and Puntland use Shari'a law, and not a traditional Somali law? (Xeer, I think it is called)

Please allow me a moment of your time, and share which form of national government you wish would rule in Mogadishu.

From the replies thusfar, it seems a Iraqi-style (only Sunni) Federal Republic, or a Iranian-style (only Sunni) Islamic Republic would be the choice... since I biased this thread with my own thoughts, please forgive me if I make a separate 'poll' thread.

Originally posted by Geel_Jire12: Something tells me, you desire a "true political anarchy" for Somalia no? Yes, and I'm sorry if I'm too biased for my own survey. if you want a wild place where there is no rule and its "survival of the fittest" then it isn't somalia. Ok, please allow me one comment... you do realize that there is just as much law and order (maybe more) in a political-anarchy, as any democracy? The word "anarchy" does not mean social chaos, only lack of federal government.

Originally posted by Geel_Jire12: The people who do not want a government in Somalia are warlords It seems to me that the warlords are a government, only on a small scale. They are mini-dictators. This is not political-anarchy, in fact dictators are the exact opposite. In a true political anarchy, Somalis would *not* be forced to pay fees to any security service/warlord, not matter where they owned property.

Originally posted by Caano Geel: Gavin: Its difficult to define what a 'western style' government is, 'western style' governments vary as much as the cultures they are from. Most of us want a fair system that empowers its people and takes responsibility for its actions - but in reality, (i think) that the correlation between the extent to which a government provides that and its political philosophy is murky, and depends much more on the social norms and the power balance within the culture. So most of us support and want ideals like democracy, but we want it our way, to support our ideals and values, not wholesale imported. wrt to anarcho-capitalism isnt it another fancy word for market optimisation? and doesnt that implicitly contradict the basic function of society - i.e. looking out for the parts that make up the sum? Thank you for replying, and allow me to answer your question If one were to have a line of political freedom, it would look like this (in my humble estimation): Most Free - Anarcho-Capitalism (maybe Syndicalism) " - Traditional Somalia Kritarchy " - Direct Democracy (no modern nation) " - Republic w/ Strong Direct Democracy (Swiss) " - Republic (USA) " - Socialist nation (UK, Sweden) " - Iranian Democracy (sharia-law) " - Communism Least Free- Monarchy, Fascism, Warlordism This is a *very* unique time in human history. No nation , I believe, has ever been ruled by anarcho-capitalism (with their traditional law, Xeer I believe Somalis call it). Many libertarians around the world are watching Somalia very closely to see if they choose yet another Western-style democracy, or a system which embraces radical liberty. You may not realize it, but Somalia has the power to be a shining beacon of liberty which could be an example for humanity, similar to what happened in the late 1700s in the United States.

Well, I appreciate your response Caano Geel , although maybe I should have been more clear in my main question: *How many Somalis want a Western-style government, also how many want no government (anarcho-capitalism)?

Originally posted by Thierry.: Q1) When a viable state arises in Somalia should we privatise most sectors and let market efficiency take control or the State have a stronger influence? I am an anarcho-capitalist living in California. From what I have read, Somalians seem most likely to embrace a "no-government" nation. There seems to be a tremendous amount of unrest lately as groups try to erect a governmental structure over the Somalis, who in turn seem to (possibly) instinctively reject the new government. Very libertarian. I am extremely interested in the AnCap movement in Somalia. I wonder if there is anything I can do to help.

I'm an American studying both AnCap and Somalia. From what I've read, Somalia is currently the closest nation in the world to an anarcho-capitalist ideal. Here are some questions I would love to hear answers to: *Why are Somalis so independent-minded? *Are any other peoples of Africa/Arabia just as libertarian, or is it just a Somali trait? *Would most Somalis be happy having no government? (Meaning, services like security, healthcare, roads, etc. provided by the free-market.) Thank you for your time, and please do not judge me too harshly because I am an American! Peace.