Gediid, i don't have hatred towards any innocent person. iam for fairness and justice for all. as for this dellusionland, its illegal, and totally unacceptable period. i hate ethnocenterism , hypocracy and qabiil propoganda.

the idea of one qabiil_land will not materialize period. The perpetrators of the civil war hail from the waqooyi kuunfur bari and galbeed, and its very hypocritical to point fingers. there will never be justice as long as some people are turning a blind eye on the crimes commited by their people and pointing to those commited by others. as for federalism, as soon as there is a viable goverment (in june insha allah), with the 4.5 formula, and the international backing , hargeysa and berbera will be coming inline. i mean what are they going to do but accept the inevitable? if you think iam optamistic, then lets see ,and count the years with me

If you have any facts at your disposal in regard to the waqooyi galbeed's economy ,then lets analyse it, otherwise claims and counterclaims willnot validate your point. You have been re inventing the tire , without coming up with a valid argument for the seperation of a region from somalia. in addition, you have been trying to present two provinces, out of the 18 provinces which somalia comprises as the "NORTH HALF", while lumping the rest as "the SOUTH". This misleading mirage will not change the realities on the ground, which affirm that the provinces of togdheer (except buuhoodle) and waqooyi galbeed, are illegal and unsustainble as a country.

its rediculous for you to think that waqooyi galbeed is economically superior to puntland. if we agree on a common boarder between the waqooyi galbeed and togdheer provinces and the rest of somalia, iam positive that their economy will collapse. puntland is economically intergrated with the rest of somalia ,while waqooyi galbeed is isolated, except the port of berbera. i firmly beleive we have the bargaining card when it comes to economic issues. the fundamentals are in place more so in puntland than waqooyi galbeed.

since you have figured out the facts, then why don't you do the rationale thing and stop this independance HOOHAA ? READ my lips, IT will NEVER happen, so the sooner you guys accept the absolute reality, the better we will all be.

I second to Horn walaahi. "i couldn't have said it better". could sumarai warrior be Sir Farah, our inhouse Scholar :cool:

Incredible. Thumps up to the scholarly arguments of Dantay- meanin in somali "my business" , Sumaria , and Horn. well, you guys are truly visionaries.

waxaan ahay nin "cabdalayaasha jecel" if you know what i MEan.

No part of somalia has the mandate or the right to seperate. as bari nomad said puntland is part of somalia and will forever be. No habarkuuleey or Awkuuku land

Horn, thumps up for you man. what happened to the tanks, and the commandos. remember "maska ma cuntaa , HAAAA, see u cuntaa HAAAAM"

Actually July 1,1960 is around the corner and its something , no matter where we are from can agree upon , dont you landers think so? JULY 1-1960 Endures and Prevails for ever.

It seems that the adage "Don't Argue with Fools" applies here. it angers me whenever i see Zealots that repeat the same lines , and outdated ideas about Habarkuuleey land. Baashi and Horn , please don't argue with these zealots , since no amount of reason can unlock their hardened minds. south this south that... only xamar is in turmoil, while mudug gedo and puntland are thriving. so don't make as if the whole country is aflame while Northwest is the island of peace. Whether you people like it or not, The status quo will remain and there will never be AN IMAGINARY LAND.

*********EDITED********** [ April 30, 2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Admin ]

much respect for ameenah and Northerner. as for hadraawi, he is foremost a somali intellectual and his opinions could shape the populace of his native region and instill a sense of patriotism to the rest. samyigyrl, moderation should be practised,in any thing inlife, otherwise you will be disappointed forever.

Allaha ku shaafiyo majdi, if you beleive ina yeey that much. cabdullahi yusuf is a thug, who originally build the puntland administration, but wouldn't let go of power when his term ended. eventhough i think he has a better chance of success than ina salaad boy, because of ethio american support, but then he is not a worthy leader, just a place holder for a future president. majdi iam accusing you of the same tribal reasoning as hornafrique in choosing cabdiqaasim lets seperate the interest of clans and those of our nation. peace

remember aftey ceydiid massacred thousands of people, there was still men from all the clans even siyad barre's were alligned with him. does it mean anything to the populace of the people that he massacred. you are evading this simple question , and it shows that you are not sincere in your politics at all. we don't want somaliland. remember, any entity can bribe people ,and claim to have the support of the people. to summ it up, riyaale incident in laascaanood is the true intention of thepeople. people in SS&H don't want to be part of somaliland. you are re inventing the tire comrade. iam still waiting your reply for my preceding questions. we can claim the inhabitants of burco , who sent some of thier leaders to garoowe want to become part of puntland. the simple logic is, as you guys want not to devide your ethnic people, we don't want to devide our ethnic people into somalilanders and somalis. simple enough? waiting still

Do you guys think that the gennie is out of the box, and power balance has started ? i mean if they do, then no one will dare to attack them. here is the article on washington post N. Korea Claims to Have Nuclear Weapons, U.S. Officials Say advertisement _____News From North Korea_____ • Australia Charges N. Korean Ship's Crew in Drug Case (The Washington Post, Apr 22, 2003) • U.S., North Korea to Begin Talks (The Washington Post, Apr 16, 2003) • Panel Urges U.S.-N. Korea Talks (The Washington Post, Mar 19, 2003) • More News from North Korea Subscribe to E-Mail This Article Printer-Friendly Version Permission to Republish By Glenn Kessler Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, April 24, 2003; 3:54 PM North Korean negotiators told U.S. officials in Beijing that the communist nation has nuclear weapons and threatened to export them or conduct a "physical demonstration," U.S. officials said today. Pyongyang has never before admitted it had nuclear weapons, though the CIA has estimated it had the materials for one or two devices. The disclosure at the talks -- the first meeting by North Korean and U.S. officials since October, when North Korea admitted its had a second, secret nuclear program -- suggested Pyongyang was determined to strike a belligerent stance, U.S. officials said. The statement about having nuclear weapons was made during the first day of talks, during the presentation of talking points, and the North Koreans said they had made the same admission in 1993. But U.S. officials have contacted former Clinton administration officials and there appears to be no record of a previous North Korean statement. At one point, one U.S. official said, Li Gun, deputy director of American affairs for North Korea's Foreign Ministry, pulled aside Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly and in effect told him: "We've got nukes. We can't dismantle them. It's up to you whether we do a physical demonstration or transfer them." U.S. officials are still puzzling over the statement and its exact meaning, including whether North Korea was threatening to test a nuclear weapon. But, one official said, "it was very fast, very categorical and obviously very scripted." Li also told the Americans that North Korea has almost completed reprocessing 8,000 spent fuel rods -- a statement not confirmed by U.S. intelligence. Officials believe that may just be a bluff, but it is a sobering bluff: Analysts have said the fuel rods can be turned into material for two to three nuclear bombs within a few months. China joined the talks as host and full participant in the discussions that began Wednesday. In its first official comment on the talks, China said the discussions had helped promote understanding and would help in finding a solution. But a U.S. official said that the Chinese privately are in disbelief over the North Korean statements. In what U.S. officials said was a reference to the North Korean statements, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, said in Washington: "North Korea must also come to understand that we will not be threatened. We will not respond to threats." Powell said, "Strong views were presented" at the talks. "The North Koreans presented their point of view strongly; the Chinese did, as well, as did the United States," he said. North Korea, meanwhile, said it was ready to settle the dispute but that the "master key" for successful talks was for the United States to drop its hostile policy toward Pyongyang. "The situation on the Korean Peninsula is so tense that a war may break out any moment due to the U.S. moves," the North's KCNA news agency said, adding that relations with the United States had hit "rock bottom" because President Bush named North Korea as part of an "axis of evil," along with Iran and Iraq. KCNA said the war in Iraq had shown the only way for a country to protect itself was to have a strong military deterrent. It was unclear whether the talks would continue for a planned third day, U.S. officials said. © 2003 The Washington Post Company

gediid, you amaze me wallaahi. iam not a fan of cabdullahi yusuf at all. the majority of people in sool sanaag and buuhoodle went to the 1998 conference ,not for the love of cabdullahi yusuf, but to have an interim administration with their own ethnic groups, untill a federal somali system forms. puntland is a mere administration like somaliland. so are you telling us about what we want? are you telling me that we want to be under your people? get a grip man. our people want peace and security in the area, and a federal somali government. do you have an answer where do you draw your clan's border then? iam dying to know that. you seem to be side stepping the questions we have legitimatly possed, why? i am eagerly waiting for an answer to the question bro

Unfortunatly gediid side stepped my question about the border. why do you have to mention the cities only. a large part of sanaag and sool, and buuhoodle in togdheer is part of puntland, somalia. cabdillahi yusuf doesn't decide these people's destiny. when these facts are brough to bear to the arguments of seccesion, then it crumbles like a piece of cardboard. ameenah, aruba are an examplry sisters from waqooyi and i commend for their vision and love for all somalia. gediid answer my previous and this posts , in a civilized manner please. waiting :confused:

Gediid, go ahead, go , but where do we draw the borders? Please answer this question. most of sool, sanaag and buuhoodle district arenot in it, so your claim for somaliland is indispute. i suggest that you properly name it after your qabiilLand. the union of the north was consumated by two different parties, one representing your own tribe, the other representing the dervishes and the awdalians, so don't make it that your people did everything. as for the border of your tribe with the people that ethnically are puntlanders, please explain where would we draw. also since what the british called somaliland disputed, rightly so, then explain what makes it legal infront of the international community for you to unilateraly declare the shared land's succession, without the will and the desire of the other tribes. iga shaagi arintan, and please don't jump hoops. No one is trying to make you stay wallaahi, just do it legally, while not claiming to represent other peoples by coercion and bribery of few traitors. let see then

Hornafrique, you are very predictable in your politics as to what clan you belong to. its sad that you simply adhere to the clan politics that are worse than the chameleon. i defenetly agree with grivov on this issue. both are not worthy of the highest seat in our nation, but the unscapable realities are that u.sa and ethiopia who could accept or reject our people's will have cabdullahi in their minds. lets keep in mind the old man has liver problems as grinov said, and somalia has a great future to be started by anyone, since cabdiqaasim failed to get the support of the local warlords and the big powers.

Libaax, i love your idea, but the ppl of waqooyi galbeed and togdheer, dont want let go sool sanaag and hawd. i would say, each county, or city should rule itself so that power is highly decentralized. i can never imagine anyone ruling taleex other than a dervishe!

To all i do apologize if i offended anyone. my only point was "lets not put shades on". what i mean is ,after such a long civil war, no group or clan can claim to have abstained from the blood letting. from those that were bombed in hargeisa, to those whose wells were poisoned and burried in mudug, and the bodies of starved women and children that littered "habaar waalid",because of general ceydiid, SOMALIS have suffered enough. Its inappropriate to re start accusation and counter accusation, and point fingers, when we can work on the healing of our souls. at this juncture in our history, we are all suspicous of one another, and very mistrusting. i do beleive that it will take a long time before we can really bring this to closure, and in the meantime, we all need to focus our ENERGY ON THE THINGS THAT WILL BRING US TOGETHER, NOT DIVIDE US. my apologies to the comrades from waqooyi galbeed and togdheer, and lets burry the hatchets. sincerely

THE irony about TUKE is i lived in the same complex as tuke in don mills. one afternoon , i remember, as a young teenager, i heard commotions outside our apartment complex, my uncle told us to come out to face some noisy men and women with placards who were demonstrating against tuke. they were insulting tuke, his clan, and chanting down with ****** . for a moment it was intense, but the demonstration soon wined down. that was the beginin of the fabrication of the somali holocoust against the waqooyi galbeed and togdheer ppl. after that they were lodging complaints against anyone and everyone belonging to siyad's main clan. despite their claims, they never provided any credible evidedence to the canadian authority. their only evidence was THEIR eye witness accounts. Gediid, do you have any unbiased documents proving that Tuke killed NON-COMBATANTS? the burden of proof is upon you since you are the one who claim that tuke killed innocents. unless you prove he killed innocent ppl, i still think he did exterminate snm verments from the face of the earth :mad: :mad: :mad: unless you want the third world justice of circumstantial evidence, i reckon you have NOTHING. :confused: :confused: maxaad ugu waalatay cuqdad, adigay cuqdad kaa buuxdaa wallee. if there will ever be justice, then the murdurers among ************ should ALL be brought to justice. otherwise keep on exagerating the holocaust that never happened. [ April 16, 2003, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Admin ]

Gediid, snm traitors wiped the people in sool and sanaag. on top of that they killed refugees from the ethio somalia war who crossed the border from ethiopia after somalia lost the war. there were a great number of families in hargeysa, from somali galbeed , who were displaced in the 1977 war. snm mostly in the 80s accompanied the ethiopian forces and were scouts for the ethiopians. they were funded by the ethiopians, and they used not only against siyad regime,but also the inhabitants of sool, sanaag and the refugees and livestock traders from somaligalbeed. i hope you understand the picture now. as for the snm being only 4000, even toljecle's contribution was way more than that. get a grip. as i said, bring the snm traitor's atrocities, so we can accept the atrocities of the former regime. you just can't have it your way. what is so difficult about this? [ April 16, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Admin ]