Abti As you can see from my proposal international intervention is not limited to SL issue alone... UN peacekeepers are needed to secure the interim regime... I agree the SL issue should be discussed between Somalis but once the referendum issue comes up i would call for international intervention.. to ensure free vote and campaigning... But again my ideology is what works... if your methodology works and creates an environment for co-existence and progress on this issue then you can count on my support. As for NGONGE once you recover from mental malnourishment, I look forward to your constructive contribution…

Abti I would just say we have proven beyond responsible doubt we can’t manage our own affairs... That is why i am suggesting international intervention... There is a precedent for this... In Ghana just after independence the Ewe situation in the east of country was solved through an international managed referendum..

A proposal to the END this Madness Every Somali needs to ask themselves is PEACE more important than their own parochial and sectarian interest? If the answer is yes I suggest the following 1) All those who have been involved in politics of Somalia since independence to date are bared from power. As result no group feels that their tortures are rewarded. Surely harmony and trust in more important than an individuals 2) International Criminal court is invited to investigate crimes that have been committed since the 1991 conflict. This court is independent and no Somali group should feel targeted… 3) Ethiopian troops to be withdrawn and replaced by UN peacekeepers and election held by 2011…Foreign fighter be asked to leave also 4) A Diaspora interim government be formed, consisting of a balanced team. The head of state in this interim period ought to be someone all the Somalis respect and admire, with no political ambition… My suggestion would be someone like Hadarawi…or someone with similar clout 5) An international administered referendum beheld in Somaliland on the future status of that region. This means both the pro-and anti independence groups get ample time to put their case to the population of that region. The results of the referendum must be respected by all. 6) The first task of the interim regime is to commission a team of eminent people to find solution to land issues in Mogadishu with aim of ensuring the rightful owners are either given back their properties or compensated. 7) The interim regime should also deal urgently with the despicable state of internally displace people… 8) All contract signed by the TFG with foreign companies on the OIL or fishing front be annulled and reviewed; 9) Finally nature of governance in Somali should be put into a referendum to the people rather than be decided by the predatory elites… whether we adopt a centralised or federal system should a choice made by the people… I believe with this set of actions Somalia may at last be able to be part of the civilised world again…off course there issues I may have overlook I will welcome any additional thoughts… I urge all those who love their country and people to put the need to the our beloved nation ahead of parochial interest… My suggestion is therefore to work together in this forum and come up with a solid set of ideas and advocate for its application…

GJ Hear hear I will add one more thing.. (by the way am NOT from SL), IF they ppl of SL have sorted themselves and the rest of us are insistent on death, destruction and collaboration, why should they wait for a partner that may never recover! I say to my brothers and sisters in SL well done and good luck and i hope you establish a successful, progressive and pluralist country that will make all of us proud.

Red I know exactly how you feel... i feel the same... it embarrassing to be Somali, we are diseased race that rejoices death and destruction! I am with you Red i wish we could resign from this club of losers and clan fascists! We belong to a race that teaches hate and evil to its babies before they can even walk! Just read SOL postings, very few look at the big picture, most are interested in parochialism and bloodletting! Would the last one please put the light off!

This is the consequence of a failed nation and people... ooh Somalis what have we done to ourselves…!!! i am hurting!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By now, everyone who is interested in Somalia knows the United Nations has declared that this small country houses the worst refugee crisis in Africa. We know that nearly a quarter million people have been displaced from Mogadishu alone, and we know that the southern route to the refugee camps in Kenya has been cut off by the Kenyan military. But what happens to the people who make it out of Somalia? Where do they go and how are they treated? One of the most common refugee routes leads people north from Mogadishu to Bossaso, Somalia. Here people fleeing the violence of their hometown must pay as much as $2,000 to take a raft across the Gulf of Aden to Yemen. From Yemen, they can take a bus through Saudia Arabia, but then they must walk through Syria and Turkey. This journey often takes place at night and usually requires two weeks of hard, quick walking. Amal is 19. She was pregnant when she left Somalia. She and her husband could not afford to pay the smugglers for two passages, so they thought it best if Amal were to have her baby in what they thought would be the safe harbor of Europe. For this part of the walking tour, the pregnant Amal had to pay the smugglers $550. All through the journey they pushed and shoved the young woman, threatening to leave her behind if she could not keep up. When she reached Izmir, Turkey, Amal’s child was born. From there, Amal had to pay the smugglers another $1,000 to cross the Aegean Sea. There were 18 people on the inflatable raft that carried Amal and her baby away from Turkey. The smugglers forced her to get out of the raft before it reached shore, because they did not want to get caught by the Greek Coast Guard, so the terrified Amal had to carry her child over her head, while she struggled through the waves toward dry land. Then she had to carry her baby over a mountain, with the trees tearing at her clothes. On the other side of the mountain, Amal was captured by the Greek police. Nearly all refugees are captured by the Greek police, but one would think that this would be fine. After all, Greece is part of the European Union, where the Geneva Convention is recognized, as is the European Declaration of Human Rights. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Almost no one is granted asylum in Greece. In order to apply for asylum, a person needs a job. To get a job, you need a work permit, and to get a work permit, you need to have applied for asylum. There is no way to break the cycle of bureaucratic requirements. Ali Hussien, of the Greek Refugee Council, told us that between 2000 and 2005, the Greek government granted refugee status to a mere 114 people. This works out to be 23 a year or about two a month. In fact, the European Union has sanctioned Greece for offering asylum to less than 2% of the people who apply. Instead, what Greece offers refugees, after it has held them in detention for anywhere from one week to a month, is a card that tells them to leave the country within 30 days or be arrested. The authorities held Amal in detention on an island for 18 days. In detention, she was given only adult food for both herself and her baby. Many people report being beaten in detention, as the police try to determine the identity of the smugglers. When she was released, Amal was put on a ship that took her to the mainland and Athens. Amal was expected to pay her own fare. She had no money, so other refugees had to pay her way. Because they are denied official status, Amal and other Somali refugees are told to leave the country, but if they try to leave, Greek authorities will arrest them for traveling without papers, and if they actually manage to get on the plane, the authorities in other countries will send them back to Greece because of the Dublin Regulations. The Dublin Regulations hold that when a refugee enters Europe, he or she must remain in the country through which he or she first entered the European Union. The EU is clearly using border countries like Greece as a barrier to the rest of Europe. So Amal is being told that she cannot travel to a country that will recognize her rights as a war refugee, and she is also being told that she cannot work in Greece. How is she supposed to care for her baby? She can’t even earn money for baby food. Her husband, who is still in Mogadishu, is prevented by the war from earning any money. It is true that a Christian organization, Helping Hands offers food to Somali refugees once a week. However, its goal is ultimately to convert the Muslim Somalis. Moreover, the Somali women are afraid to go there, and one meal a week is hardly enough to relieve the horrible plight the refugees face. The situation for Somali refugees in Greece is really desperate. We witnessed several flophouses where 30 to 50 Somali refugees must live. Here the same room serves as living room, bedroom and dining room. People can stay in the flophouses, only if they have friends or relatives who will send the 3 euros a night required to rent a tiny space in these rooms. Otherwise they will become homeless. We interviewed several Somali people who sleep in the park. Finally, some men are able to work illegally picking farm produce. Abdirizak has been in Greece for four years. He works on the farms when he can. The work is intermittent, and he is paid much less than white people. Like other Somali farm workers, he lives in abandoned housing and saves his money so he can buy a ticket to another European country, where he hopes to be treated more humanely. While he works in Greece, he is abused and called racist names, but every year when he tries to leave, the authorities inevitably send him back. They never return the price of the ticket, however, so the process of being homeless and working for low wages must begin all over again. The Somalis in Greece need the help of the Somali Diaspora and of good-hearted people around the world. They cannot work, and they cannot leave. Consequently they are cut off from the means of helping themselves. We need to help these refugees in at least two ways: first of all, we need to draw attention to the injustice of the Dublin Regulations. From European wars, people have been able to seek refuge all over the world. It is unspeakably unjust that many Africans are now unable to seek refuge from their wars in Europe. However, as we are lobbying to change the legal barricades to Europe, we must also find a way to care for the Somali people in Greece, such as Amal, who are prevented from taking care of themselves. Perhaps we can raise funds that would create a sanctuary for Somali refugees. There is a crying need for a place that offers housing and food to people, who would otherwise be desperate. The refugees themselves could be paid to cook and maintain the sanctuary, and if everyone also knew that he or she were free to leave whenever he found a way out of Greece, then perhaps we could save people from the dangerous, dignity-stealing way of life to which they are currently being subjected.

Somaliland is not a qabil entity? u must be kidding me... but not suprised really cos somalis are commonly infected by self delusionary virus...bro please lets not argue for the sake of it!!! and this is coming from someone who supports independence for SL and is not from SL...

You lot are pitiable, and primitive... the discussion in SOL has deteriorated to my clan army is stronger than yours.... while you enjoy the hospitality of western tax payers, you urge peasants to operationalise your hate filled spew for no logical or ideological reason… are we fighting because we have fundamentally diverging visions for Somalis and how to make their brutish life better,… is our war about how society should be organised or governed! Off course not… it’s simple about hegemony, which gang of clan fascists can access the state coffers and dominate the rest! Its pure medieval power struggle… If the discussions in SOL is indicator of what the next generation is to offer then future of that hellhole of a land leaves no one with any confidence! The Somali dispora is as destructive as the warlords… I wonder how we came to be comfortable in the abyss and on daily innovate how we can further dig deep into nothingness… you should all be ashamed!

Somalipride please go back to your history books...and u will see how long Ethio-somali enmity started...please for yoursake don’t be exposing ur historical illiteracy in a public forum…

Why do you think they support the TFG? and since when has supporting TFG a patriotic thing to do, has the concept of patriotism redefined to mean those who collaborate with historical enemy of Somalis to invade their country so as to grab power?... The sooner Somali understand force begets force we will continue the circle of violence and counter violence

Duke... Now you must at least admit your last Predictions were unfounded!!! And tell us why this time you will be right... otherwise one can not help but concluded that your analytical capacity is as good as a clown… I haven’t reached such a conclusion yet, I will wait to hear from you why this time your proclamation of victory is accurate!

Duke... Now you must at least admit your last Predictions were unfounded!!! And tell us why this time you will be right... otherwise one can not help but concluded that your analytical capacity is as good as a clown… I haven’t reached such a conclusion yet, I will wait to hear from you why this time your proclamation of victory is accurate!

This analysis is out there… just to wild! You think Males calculated on the bases that this ppl beat us in 14th century, now its payback time… We Somalis and our fantasies doesn’t seize to amaze! Somali invasion was based squarely on current geo-political climate of “war terror” however misplaced that may be!

This analysis is out there… just to wild! You think Males calculated on the bases that this ppl beat us in 14th century, now its payback time… We Somalis and our fantasies doesn’t seize to amaze! Somali invasion was based squarely on current geo-political climate of “war terror” however misplaced that may be!

This analysis I out there out… just to wild! You think thought to himself this ppl beat us in 14th century, now its payback… We Somalis and our fantasies does seize to amaze me! The invasion of Somalia based squarely on current geo-political climate of “war terror” however misplaced that may be!

what do you expect from this lot... they equate leadership, with ability to subjugate and curtail fundamental rights… no vision and as the Liberians say they must be LESS busy!!

well...i think our generation needs to ensure this narrow mindness, and backwardness is not preached at the dinner table!!! charity begins at home so does cleansing of clannism... the paradox of clannish behaviour is that, we all adhere to it like a religion but it's the very thing that impoverishes us... so why support something that fails us all?

Nay thanks for your kind words... I think the problem of doing anything in regards to somali issues is this snake called clan...that follows us everywhere and its only objective is to stop progress... and development..its the enemy of us all and the reason why we r where we r...lets kill it, bury it and emanicipate ourselves from its heavy burden,,,

I think... the first step is getting independence from Ethiopia, ...the rest will follow..

ONLF... is the only example of what remains of Somali, independence, pride, and heroism, ... the least we can do is, see how we can support them financially. ONLF thanks for injecting pride in my drought infected soul!!!!

PeaceNOW ! Writing from American perspective, i think he is articulating a reasonable policy.. As southerner, i think Somaliland should go its way if the south cant get their act together in the next 2 years … so should Puntland... why force something that cannot be put together...16 years of failure and we are TFG and UIC to show for!!! no hope there my man !

I can finally confirm there are no Somalis begging in the Streets of Monrovia, the ones on the streets are from Niger and Mali.. I spoke to the reporter his name is Micheal, he keeps on saying they're Somali.. they r simply not Somali... i think he confused Mali with SO-mali.. Liberian reporters are known for their sub-standard work! They actually look and dress like Somalis… The only East African registered refugees are from Ethiopia and Eretria. A group of Ethiopian Soldiers who were Liberia as part of the UN peacekeeping mission defected last year and asked for asylum. Although the thought of having Somalis on the streets of Monrovia was shocking and disturbing, they’re many Somalis doing just that in the streets of many cities around the world. Somalia is on the top of the league of failed states, therefore, having Somali beggars shouldn’t have been a surprise, but as a people we have perfected the art of denial. Our pride should not blind us to our realities; we’re deep in the abyss, devoid of leadership and vision, and poor, and colonial subjects to a peasant nation, while the cancer of the clan continues to fester deep inside our soul. This is our reality; it is from here where we need to work from… In the meantime may Allah save us from ourselves;

UPDATE I spoke to UNHCR, head for protection, she said she too had read about the story, but as far as UNHCR is concerned they haven’t seen or met any resent influx of Somalis. I then went to the LRRRC, the Liberian government refugee agency, they had investigated the matter, together with Immigration and nationality department but were unable to trace any somali. My sense is that as far as the 500 figure quoted is an exaggeration, but I cant not say they’re no Somali beggars in the streets of Monrovia… Although I was relieved to hear that there were no Somalis identified by the government, I know that we Somalis are experts of laying low!! I have sent a driver around the city, I await his feedback. Whether, its true or not, I think this should give us time for self-reflection -- how we as people have reached, a stage where, one can imagine the possibility of once a proud people begging in the streets Monrovia -- one of the most underdeveloped city in Africa… !!! Monrovia has no electricity, nor water, no roads,, and human sacrifice rituals are common… the people here have been traumatised from 14 years of brutal war… many here tell me Liberia is the Somalia of West Africa!!! but even them are in the road to redemption...

Peace.. i am working for UNDP... on a short consultancy...

People... i AM in Monrovia... just spoke to UNHCR people, the story has not yet been substantiated.. i will been going to meet the some the people who say they r somalis later and will report back,,, in the meantime hold tight.. i have been in monrovia for three months, and the only somalis i have seen are all working for the UN...