I don’t support any group that kills Somalis indiscriminately.. Period

Abti...and the rest You are right i need to defend my thesis in a robust manner.. but you will also agree as people with jobs we may not have the time to do so... I promise to do so by the weekend… Plus anything done or said by a whiteman doesn’t entail detestation... THAT i am sure you will be u agree ridicules... otherwise we will have to stop using the internet, the computer, your cloths, etc... Actually on second thought you maybe homeless too or dead in Somalia... I am being harsh but the reality is we cannot longer hide behind insults we have to face our challenge as the next generation of Somalis, we as people have failed and exhibit no civilised behaviour excepted on a basic Home Spean... I am Muslim but i wouldn’t want to live in a nation like Saudi Arabia or any theocratic state... I dont want to see any of accesses of taliban like rule:

Meant to say i wouldn’t say i drafted it... am not that clever

My organisation in sao tome that i am part of was involved in the drafting we worked on management of revenues and transparancy component... I would said i draft it no i did not...we are still working in sao tome helping the parliment on enacting the by-laws to establish oversight commission, and public information office,,,

i wont say am famous... we'll i don’t think any state should be in the business of oil production if its institutions are not robust... Somalia should just wait - until its has such capacity,,, but i can't somehow see that happening.. Interesting thing about oil production is everyday you extract you get poorer... I have nothing to report on the positivity of oil in Africa...it is as the ex-opec chairman said truly a devils excrement

Al... I have been working on oil/natural resource governance for 6 years.. Initially in Nigeria then sao tome and Liberia (Diamonds).. In Sao Tome we facilitated the establishment of an oil law, one of the most transparent and inclusive in the world... With help of ex-alaska governor, undp and Columbia University, the oil law was ratified... the problem however as in many developing countries, it’s one thing having a law and a different cup of tea enforcing it... Hence the quote in the Guardian, Bokero = Mohamed Yahya... If you are interested let me know i have documentation that will keep you busy for years

religion should be prvate period....

I hope and pray that we conduct the affairs of the state through competition of ideas and through human fallibility that can be perfected rather than through deity....

haji where have u been?? call me would be nice to hear from u

... I am no Mayers fun bro...But he has point! His motivation maybe of the racial kind, but his points are undisputable...The sooner we face the reality of our challenge the better

'Africa is giving nothing to anyone except Aids' By Kevin Myers Thursday July 10 2008 No. It will not do. Even as we see African states refusing to take action to restore something resembling civilisation in Zimbabwe, the begging bowl for Ethiopia is being passed around to us, yet again. It is nearly 25 years since Ethiopia's (and Bob Geldof's) famous Feed The World campaign, and in that time Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78 million today. So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic demographic growth in that country? Where is the logic? There is none. To be sure, there are two things saying that logic doesn't count. One is my conscience, and the other is the picture, yet again, of another wide-eyed child, yet again, gazing, yet again, at the camera, which yet again, captures the tragedy of . . . Sorry. My conscience has toured this territory on foot and financially. Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like most of you, I have stumped up the loot to charities to stop starvation there. The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes him. There is, no doubt a good argument why we should prolong this predatory and dysfunctional economic, social and sexual system; but I do not know what it is. There is, on the other hand, every reason not to write a column like this. It will win no friends, and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of, well, the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral superiority. It will also probably enrage some of the finest men in Irish life, like John O'Shea, of Goal; and the Finucane brothers, men whom I admire enormously. So be it. But, please, please, you self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of our own Famine, with this or that lazy analogy. There is no comparison. Within 20 years of the Famine, the Irish population was down by 30pc. Over the equivalent period, thanks to western food, the Mercedes 10-wheel truck and the Lockheed Hercules, Ethiopia's has more than doubled. Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness. Somewhere, over the rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, Kalashnikov-toting, khat-chewing, girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts. Indeed, we now have almost an entire continent of sexually hyperactive indigents, with tens of millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside world. This dependency has not stimulated political prudence or commonsense. Indeed, voodoo idiocy seems to be in the ascendant, with the next president of South Africa being a firm believer in the efficacy of a little tap water on the post-coital penis as a sure preventative against infection. Needless to say, poverty, hunger and societal meltdown have not prevented idiotic wars involving Tigre, Uganda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea etcetera. Broad brush-strokes, to be sure. But broad brush-strokes are often the way that history paints its gaudier, if more decisive, chapters. Japan, China, Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th century have endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of Africa. They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS. Meanwhile, Africa's peoples are outstripping their resources, and causing catastrophic ecological degradation. By 2050, the population of Ethiopia will be 177 million: The equivalent of France, Germany and Benelux today, but located on the parched and increasingly protein-free wastelands of the Great Rift Valley. So, how much sense does it make for us actively to increase the adult population of what is already a vastly over-populated, environmentally devastated and economically dependent country? How much morality is there in saving an Ethiopian child from starvation today, for it to survive to a life of brutal circumcision, poverty, hunger, violence and sexual abuse, resulting in another half-dozen such wide-eyed children, with comparably jolly little lives ahead of them? Of course, it might make you feel better, which is a prime reason for so much charity. But that is not good enough. For self-serving generosity has been one of the curses of Africa. It has sustained political systems which would otherwise have collapsed. It prolonged the Eritrean-Ethiopian war by nearly a decade. It is inspiring Bill Gates' programme to rid the continent of malaria, when, in the almost complete absence of personal self-discipline, that disease is one of the most efficacious forms of population-control now operating. If his programme is successful, tens of millions of children who would otherwise have died in infancy will survive to adulthood, he boasts. Oh good: then what?I know. Let them all come here. Yes, that's an idea. kmyers@independent.ie

xaq and Al I worked on establishing the oil law in Sao tome...i can tell u its one thing having a law in place another enforcing it! oil is always a curse for developing countries, its better to produce oil once your economy is developed, otherwise you risk, conflict, Dutch disease, or stagnation

Al... Interesting artcle, do you agree with title?

Thanks everybody who contributed to this visioning process...i also extent my thanks to pessimist may Allah give them hope.... I don’t blame them 18 yrs of chaos has robbed them of DREAMS... If nations like the Asian tigers are able to recover from the darkness of war and despair to build great nations so can we!!! i am confident in the ability of the Somali nomad to conquer hopelessness and turn it to prosperity for all!!! I am a believer... FOR if you can’t believe you can’t do.

Adam Great... you have to dream first.... I am glad some of us have moved away from discussions that further lodge us in the abyss... On women leadership having worked in Liberia for many years i can tell the woman President there is doing a much better job than any of her predecessors.... For many here i gather are not used to dream for better Somalia....must be difficult for them having been schooled for generations to hate and tear country down… Those of us who are not interested in fighting fake war of words … will not be stopped from dreaming for better Somalia…

Ngonge...what u want your people...no more posturing... tell us what positive future do u envision for your people? or do u condemn them to short and brutish life

Abti NgoNGE is only belittling himself...he has shown on my occasions his ensuing bankruptcy of thought! He is MR CANT

NGONGE WElcome what took u soo long...

My economic principle is "what works"...what creates wealth...and in this sense, i hesitant in adopting ideological stance at the expense of context... Economics cannot be separated from behaviour, in other words you have to see what you have (people) and deduce how you can maximise their industry... in Somalia we have people we just have to help them maximise their God given talents... This doesn’t mean i don’t borrow from theorists, i do, there are surely important,,, but my general guiding principle is CONTEXT,CONTEXT AND CONTEXT...

It has to be general, it’s meant to codify general guiding principles… On the tax, believer by taxing less, governments actually gets more revenues… low taxes creates the necessary incentive to for people to enter into business… High taxes in Africa have only seen the growth of the informal sector at the detriment of the government… On the army small army doesn’t mean a weak army. The smaller the army the more money available in training them and equipping them with the best money can buy… On religion I am for separation of religion from state affairs… but your right in saying we can be inspired by it…

Hallo bickering lot!! I am back with new and hopefully productive discussion… some will as usual call it naive,,, I want to invite all to share the Somalia/Somaliland you want to see in 20 years? here is mine On constitution.. My Somalia will be inclusive and open… tolerant of difference, its constitution will protect rights of individuals,,,, Religion will be a private matter and not a function of the state On Economics My Somalia will have a market economy…Where the role of the state will be to facilitate the process of unleashing the natural entrepreneurship of the Somali… this mean less taxes on business, investment in education and encouragement of regional trade… The government will also have incentive plan to entice the Diaspora to comeback and lead the country’s economic revival. My Somalia will try to gradually and purposefully liberate itself from foreign AID and Breton Wood institutions… On the security service My Somalia will have a small Army of well-trained 10,000 men/women… an army that understands its role – never involved in politics, stays in the barracks and protects the people from external forces… My Somalia will not go to war with neighbours…My Somalia will have a navy that protects its waters too… Finally My Somalia will have institutions that resolves disputes peacefully and fairly ….independent judiciary and police…. That we can all be proud of… Ok people I will stop here ….. Please share your vision of your Somalia…..

Pleaseeee I didn’t start this topics so that people can point fingers blame at each other!!! The interesting thing about the Somali conflict is that it has many victims but surprisingly no perpetrators... the sooner people start accepting we are all guilty and focus on what unites us rather than the little that divides us we may start feeding our hungry, and treat our sick and educate our young... Going back to the topic.. Lander... I am for punishing the architects of crimes, and for the sake of peace and justice, for without justice there cannot be reconciliation.....Apologies if i appeared to have overlooked the crimes committed in 1988... On the referendum i think all Somalis should accept such move as means to end the impulse... i am not from Somaliland but would accept the results of such a move..as far as opposing groups are given ample time to put their case to the population of that region.. For the elites in Slander i would urge them to compromise and agree to such exercise and also respect its outcome... Somalis have to start accepting democratic system as means to solve difference...

Ngonge I can see you dont read well please go back to my proposal and read again... what u will see is i said the referendum ought to be within SL... YOU are behaving like a typical hard headed villager whose is resistant to any change... secondly liberian conflict in many ways is more complicated and more brutal... but ur right about context

For Ngonge Three stages of resistance "There are three stages of resistance a new idea. So at least maintained the Swiss-American naturalist Louis Agassiz 1807-1873). First comes denial ( this were Ngonge is currently at): it is said, flat out, that it isn’t so. Second, the new idea is unacceptable because it is against religion. Finally comes the ho-hum stage. People have known about that for a long time--tell us something new" Now going back to you comments... SL situation after many years after declaration of independence without any success, why oppose the idea of referendum, where all sides will get the opportunity to put their case;. unless you don’t trust the people to make "the right choice"… Having worked in many post-conflict places in Africa i can tell you with certainty proposal one is very much doeble... just look at Liberia and Sierra Leone no warlord involved in politics today..they r either in the Hague, dead or citizens...

My brothers I am baffled and been attacked for suggesting a neutral way out of this quagmire… I will tell you what is NONESENSE… 18 years of senseless bloodletting.. Why don’t you put your workable suggestions together rather than dismissing a proposal… what part of the proposal don’t you like? What alternative do you have? I see I have angered both the secessionists and the unitarist that is where I need to be….