^I have to admit that i'm alittle innocent when it comes to this trend. I speak out for a cause out of principle and all of a sudden i'm accused of supporting a certain clan. I do hear the rumours about which clan is aligned with what but i don't pay much attention to all things tribal. My contention lies in how we can overcome the million problems facing our country and indeed all Somalis. PS- One final time, i don't believe in tribalism. This may seem suprising to some but i was not brought up in a household which believes in one. I was taught where my roots lie but never in a way to think anything bad of other clans. I thank Allah for that.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: waxaan ku qoslayaa kunkan idaacadood ee mid walba reerku ka waageertay ,,,,, walee waa aduunyo aakhiru samaan Some people just can't comprehend that one could support a certain news outlet purely out of principle. Kaalay wax walbo oo lago hadlo ama qof walbo oo hadlo, maqasabaa in qabiil meesha lasoo galiyo?

Originally posted by Hunguri: Well, the proof say you do and are a fun of Shabele media. Read my post more carefully. I've made it clear in earlier posts that i find many things on Shabelle with which i do not agree. This hasn't affected my image of Shabelle because i do not carry the tribal package that others seem to. I'm not interested in tribal feuds nor am i a tribalist. Miskiin waxaan ahay kadhashay qabiil aad u dad yar, lakiin dhibaatada maanta taalo Soomali oo dhan ayeey wada heesataa. I was never brought up to believe in tribalism. I debate from a purely non-partisan, impartial angle; aimed at achieving the best for all Somalis. Afterall, a peaceful, well-governed Somalia is good for all Somalis irrespective of clan affiliations. http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=009552#000003 Originally posted by Hunguri: Boosaaso is a peace Loving city which hosts and welcomes each and every Clan of Somalis. Jareer,********,******,*****,********,********. They all live in piece and prosperity. They have the same rights that a Bosaso born Somali Citizen has. Quality and History speak! Im sure, the title should have been the opposite!!! I have nothing against Boosaaso or the people who live there. Remember i did not start this thread, therefore did not write the title. Originally posted by Hunguri: PS:- Here, is the proof that you are not only a defender but an Employee of Shabelle Media An employee of Shabelle? Thats a very bad attempt at exaggeration, saxib. I also wrote this in a discussion on Shabelle. I find many reports on Shabelle with which i do not agree Follow the link, i expressed my views on Shabelle in detail there. BTW - I didn't know that copying and pasting a story from a news outlet makes one endsore the editorial views of the outlet. I'll repeat, i don't agree with everything Shabelle posts on its website but i do commend them on covering the most important issues, even it that displeases some. [ March 12, 2007, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

^They are a puppet government, but even such governments display a sense of patriotism in regards to their country. This puppet transitional government (PTG) as you call them, seems to have no real patriot among them. They are made of fools ready to sell even their own mother if that would facilitate reaching their goals. Its even hard to speak of 'goals' with this bunch. I would have preferred for them to be ruthless dictators or something, atleast then one could identify their goals and devise plans to counteract them. It seems like some in the TFG have realised the magnitude of their mistakes but don't have the courage to change course and do what is right for their country.

^It would have been better for you to declare the incident a tragedy and leave it at that. Those pictures were beamed around the world by Aljazeera, so you're wrong to say that Shabelle had instigated the reporting of the tragedy. That tragedy gives us a perfect illustration of our state as a nation. We are a stateless nation, existing only by name. We now have a "government" which despite setting up numerous consular offices in countries such as Yemen and Kenya, is still unable to provide the most basic consular assistance to its nationals. I'm not here to defend Shabelle but i doubt that you're rhetoric towards that broadcaster is wholehearted. The same warlords you purport to link Shabelle with are the same ones crying-foul over its objective coverage. Pictures from that tragedy needed to be covered as a matter of national importance. We need to have coverage of these tragedies so that the Somali people can realise the truly dismal state of their affairs. Perhaps, and forgive me if i'm wrong in this assumption, you were upset with Shabelle for covering the story because of the negative public relations impact it would have on the TFG. Afterall, the TFG claims to be the representatives of these nationals and yet they were no where to be seen. Like many on this forum, you're concealing the motives behind your real stance. Who are you to advise which websites one should or should not avoid? It is Somalia that is suffering, not a clan called Somalia. The sooner we realise this the sooner we can start to tackle our most pressing concerns, chief of which is the ending of the current occupation of our homeland.

The list of documented abuses in my previous post has once again returned to Somali soil since the current invasion. Walaahi every child and woman who've had to endure such abuses at the hands of outside forces will hold us all accountable. Reading that list makes one sick to the stomach. How can anyone, while aware that such abuses will occur, allow the deployment of an army with a well-documented human rights abuses against civilians? The TFG are either incompetent beyond belief for not knowing the track-record of the Ugandan army or they are blinded by their pursuit of power.

Ethiopia and to a lesser extent Uganda, as well as doing their assigned jobs as slaves by their US masters are also trying to buy influence in any future Somali 'government'. Somalia has so much that they don't. Evicting them will not be easy. Inshallah we will inflict enough damage to make them realise that Somalia is not a place where you can buy influence or exploit, no matter how big your army may be.

^We've all run out of patience with this "government". The only way to avert the horrors ahead is to frustrate their outrageously evil albeit naive designs at every opportunity.

Here are some highlights of abuses committed against the Somali population in the past by so-called "peacekeepers". I'm sure more abuses would be uncovered with a more thorough investigation. •“…A Belgian soldier was accused of forcing a young Somali to eat pork, drink salt water and then eat his own vomit…” •“…Another sergeant is suspected of having murdered a Somali whom he was photographed urinating upon…” •“…A child, accused of stealing food from the paratroopers' base, died after being locked in a storage container for 48 hours. Fifteen other members of the same regiment were investigated in 1995 for "acts of sadism and torture" against Somali civilians…” •“…In 1995, a group of Canadian paratroopers were investigated for torturing a Somali to death and killing three others…” •“…In June 1995 gruesome photos were published in a Milan magazine of Italian soldiers torturing a Somali youth and abusing and raping a Somali girl. Paratroopers claim they were specifically trained in methods of torture to aid interrogation. According to one witness, Italian soldiers tied a young Somali girl to the front of an armored personnel carrier and raped her while officers looked on…” •“…The South China Morning Post published an AFP report about an Italian battalion commander who sexually abused and strangled a 13-year-old Somali boy. There are also allegations that, in 1993, Italian soldiers beat seven suspected Somali thieves, killing one; that they beat to death a 14-year-old boy who sold a false medal and beat a couple in a car…the Italian paratrooper was quoted as saying: "What's the big deal? They are just niggers anyway…” •“…In 1997, the London Telegraph, in a combined dispatch with AFP, reported that Belgian troops roasted a Somali boy. Roasted him! And what was the sentence for this peace crime committed during an operation dubbed ironically "Restore Hope"? A military court sentenced two paratroopers to a month in jail and a fine of 200 pounds…” UN peacekeepers have also committed atrocities in other war torn African nations. Here are but a few of their many crimes: •“…A French U.N. logistics expert in the Congo shot pornographic videos in his home, in which he had converted his bedroom into a photo studio for videotaping his sexual abuse of young girls. When police raided his home, the man was allegedly about to rape a 12-year-old girl sent to him in a law enforcement sting operation. As the Times reported, a senior Congolese police officer confirmed the bed was surrounded by large mirrors on three sides, with a remote control camera on the fourth side...” •“…Two Russian pilots paid young girls with jars of mayonnaise and jam to have sex with them…” •“…U.N. "peacekeepers" from Morocco based in Kisangani – a secluded town on the Congo River – are notorious for impregnating local women and girls. In March, an international group probing the scandal found 82 women and girls had been made pregnant by Moroccan U.N. staffers and 59 others by Uruguayan staffers. One U.N. soldier accused of rape was apparently hidden in the barracks for a year…” Somalia: AU Forces will bring more deaths and destruction Bush: Don’t Send Uganda To Somalia Court orders Uganda to pay Congo damages

With the deployment of the Ugandan troops now underway, the TFG has once again overlooked the welfare of its own people. Uganda's army is infamous for its human rights wherever it has operated, most notably in the Congo. Human rights monitoring groups across the world have unanimously voiced their concerns over the deployment of Ugandan troops to Somalia. This concern was so great that it has prompted some groups to urge that funds not be made available for the mission. As the report indicates, in 2005 the ICJ found the Ugandan army guilty of abuses committed against Congolese civilians. Somalia: UPDF human rights record criticised By KEVIN J. KELLEY Special Correspondent The East African Past human rights abuses committed by Ugandan troops are leading some analysts to warn that the African Union’s difficult peacekeeping mission in Somalia could fail to meet its objectives. Critics of Uganda’s leading role in the Somalia operation point to international monitoring groups’ condemnations of the Ugandan army’s mistreatment of civilians in the Congo. The International Court of Justice, better known as the World Court, ruled in 2005 that Uganda was liable for $10 billion in damages as a result of its intervention in the Congo. The court found that civilians had been tortured and killed during the course of Uganda’s 5-year occupation of eastern sections of the Congo . Human rights groups have also accused the Ugandan People’s Defence Force (UPDF) of brutalising displaced persons in northern Uganda as part of the counterinsurgency campaign against the Kony rebels. These criticisms of the Ugandan military recently led Black Star News, a New York-based African-American newspaper, to urge that the United States not provide funds to facilitate the UPDF’s deployment in Somalia . American lawmakers should ensure that “the US plays no role in this mind-boggling, ill-fated participation by Uganda’s army in the Somali mission,” Black Star News declared in a February 27 editorial. Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Jendayi Frazer said earlier in February that the United States would provide $2 million to transport and $8 million to equip Ugandan soldiers to be deployed in Somalia. The Bush administration views stability in Somalia as crucial to US interests in the Horn and to the outcome of the “global war on terror.” “The White House is so desperate,” Black Star News observed, “that it has anointed Uganda, a country whose army was found liable for serious human rights abuses and is currently being investigated by the International Criminal Court, as regional policeman.” Doubts are also being raised as to whether Somalis will view the Ugandan troops as honest brokers. A United Nations report late last year charged that Uganda was helping to arm Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government at a time when Islamist militias were taking control of large sections of the country. The report also said that a small number of Ugandan soldiers had been sent to Somalia to help defend the transitional government. Leaders of some human rights organisations based in the US have privately expressed their own concerns about the possibility of abusive treatment of Somalis by Ugandan troops . But none of these groups has publicly opposed Ugandan involvement in the peacekeeping initiative, which has been endorsed by the African Union. One leading human rights monitor with an office in the US suggests that the UPDF may actually behave respectfully in Somalia. “This is going to be a very high profile operation,” notes the monitor, who asked that his name not be used because his organisation has made no formal comment on the Somalia peacekeeping mission. “All the eyes of Africa and of the world will be on this peacekeeping force, and Uganda will be at the centre of it because its troops are to be stationed in Mogadishu. So I think there will be considerable pressure on the Ugandans to show proper conduct.” The UPDF is expected to account for 1,500 of the African troops to be deployed in Somalia. The African Union has authorised a total contingent of 8,000 peacekeepers, but only half have so far been pledged. In addition to Uganda, four African nations — Nigeria, Ghana, Burundi and Malawi — have promised to assign troops to the mission.

^You've laboring extra-hard of late. Any hint of a place for you in the junior ranks of the TFG as yet? If you do secure a place, make sure to stay within the compounds of Villa Somalia; Mogadishu's very own Baghdad style "green zone".

^Not only enforced on the country but also controlled by third parties. I would be more relaxed if the TFG truly controlled Somalia. The truth is they don't control anything, those who invaded the country are calling all the shots. Imagine a government being dictated to within its own territority. Every respectable nation tries to protect certain entities from outside control or interference; that of sovereignty and territorial integrity to control of sea and air boundaries etc, none of which are in our hands today. Peacenow, don't mind the TFG supporters, i believe they will soon join us in the resistance once the true motives behind the illegal invasion of our country become evident to them. Events will soon escalate from one of clan-identity into a truly collective, nation-wide struggle to avert foreign domination. I've said this before but i'll repeat it once again - the only beneficiaries from the illegal invasion and present occupation of our country are foreigners.

Abaanduuliyaha Ciidamada Golaha Maxaakimta Sheekh Aadan Xaashi Ceyrow oo Farriin cod ah Markii ugu horeysay u soo diray Shacabka Soomaaliyeed

I would love to believe what your saying but i'm afraid the reality is quite different. Ethiopia is not leaving and will never leave without being forced to do so, either by the resistance or by a strong government. The prospects of the TFG turning into a viable government which is able to defend itself from outside forces, is just not on the cards anytime soon. The TFG will seem viable the day it rebukes Ethiopia's reluctance to withdraw its troops, as promised, and demands its immediate withdrawl.

So now you've reverted back to the 'TFG is enough' defense. I won't bother reiterating the unanswered points in my previous post, but a here's a no-brainer to what you've just said. Why is everyone (TFG included) calling for foreign troops if the 'Somali Government' is capable of securing its cities? Indeed, what about the expected increase in foreign troops? Are they coming to Mogadishu to bask in the sun? You guys never seize to amaze. But you probably believe that this government won't stand till thursday. So there is no point in preaching to the already converted . My contention is not with the 'government' per se, but rather with its failed policies and lack of vision; the biggest of which was in allowing Ethiopia to occupy our country.

Originally posted by Taako Man: ^Thats the opinion of one man. Majority of the international community support the government and many say 'that this is the best chance for peace in 16 years' . But you selectively believe what you want and paint the story of how you like. There is a difference between saying that "this is the best chance for peace in 16 years" and having a firm conviction that the AU forces can secure Mogadishu. I challenge you to come up with an unambiguous quote from any serious international figures, saying that the AU mission will succeed. MOGADISHU (Reuters) -Deputy Defense Minister Salad Ali Jelle accused Islamist remnants of paying the gunmen in the impoverished city where jobs are scarce and being a hired gun has long been one of the steadiest sources of employment for young men. "The insurgents are paying $100 a day to whoever fires rockets and mortars at the government and people," he said. You don't expect me to believe Jelle's mumblings now, do you? Come up with something more substantial. No one needs to be paid in an effort to free one's country. These noble men are fighting to defend their country; that in itself is incentive enough.

Originally posted by Taako Man: Only a few hundred confused and paid off fighters remain. Inshallah they shall be given an ultimatum. Death or Peace or Exile like Indhacadde and Abu Mansuur and Cadoow etc. The events underway in our country are greater than any individual(s). The fate of ICU leaders whether abroad or in the country is irrelavant. The resistance will continue with or without their contribution. Foreign occupation never worked in Somalia and it never will. Likewise, the TFG and its confederates are nothing new in times of occupation. Such institutions (if one can call it that) never last. It will perish along with the occupation. In regards to the first contingent of Ugandan troops to arrive on Somali soil; here's the view in diplomatic cirlces: "It's a suicide mission. No one in their right mind would send 1,600 troops to Somalia now. They're sending in boys with no experience of this kind of mission," said a Western diplomat in the Ugandan capital Kampala, who declined to be named. Dare i say, these un-named diplomats may not understand Somalia as much as you purport to, but they sure do understand the nature of occupations better than you do.

Ilaahow Sheekhaan runta badan waxuu arko umada Soomali oo dhan wada tusi. Mahadsanid abu ansaar.

The truths pointed out in the article were self-evident to all. Many thanks to the poster.

^Granted, you may not agree with certain news outlets. Nonetheless, are you naive enough to believe that other nations are rushing to the aid of Somalia without any interests of their own to fulfill? This conflict-ridden world is so for a good reason. Competition among most states is largely over the control of natural resources. In our case it is not only resource-centred but also ideological in nature. You shall not come to understand any of these crucial factors until you take steps to eradicate the naivety, clan politics and illusory baggage that impairs your vision. We often get bogged down in internal clan politics to the extent of losing sight of our place in the world. Contemplate events in Somalia through the prism of the wider world and what you discover will distress you. I guarantee that you will never look at Somali politics/affairs in the same way ever again.

The illegal invasion and occupation of our country brought with it an undreamt of chance for our enemies. This well planned and sinister campaign against our country has allowed Israel, among others, to come into the fold and try its hand at implementing some overdue plans inside Somalia. Israel's involvement in the campaign to oust the ICU, which has been dismissed by many as a conspiracy theory, is indicative of Israel's well-documented designs for Muslim countries in Africa, especially Somalia. Incredibly, Israel's role in Somali affairs has not attracted much attention among Somalis. I think its about time this changed. Our enemies are growing in strength and view the current situation as a golden opportunity to carry out their wicked plans inside Somali soil. If successful, they would have gathered enough intelligence to aid them in fostering more disunity and outright transgression against Somalia for centuries to come. Hay'ad Sirdoon oo laga leeyahay Israel oo ka howl-gasha gudaha Somalia Mogadishu 03, March.07 ( Sh.M.Network) Waxaa soo baxaya warar sheegaya in Heya’d sir doon oo laga leeyahay Israa’iil ay ka howl gasho gudaha dalka Soomaaliya. Warbaahinta Israa’iil ayaa daboolka ka rogtay maanta in ergo Israa’iil ah ay si qarsoodi ah uga howl gasho dalka Soomaaliya iyadoo sida la sheegay gabaad ka dhiganeysa in ay kaalmeyneyso dadka Soomaaliyeed ee soo bara kacay. Idaacadda guud ee Israa’iil ayaa sheegtay in ergadaasi oo lagu magacabo Isra-Aid ay howshooda si qarsoodi ah uga billaabeen dalka Soomaaliya iyagoo sheeganaya in ay garab siinayaan qaxootiga Soomaaliyeed. Idaacadda Israa’iil waxa ay intaasi ku dartay in xubnaha ergadaasi sir doonka ah ee ka socota Israa’iil ay ka howl galeen labada daafood ee soohdinta u dhexeysa Kenya iyo Soomaaliya waxaana ay sheegeen in ay wax u qabteen qaxootiga soomaaliyeed ee deegaannadaasi ku sugan. Idaacaddu waxa ay ku doodday in ergadaasi ay todobaadkii laga soo gudbay u qeybisay carruurta dadka soo barakacay dhar ay ku qoran yihiin waxyaabo liddi ku ah diinta Islaamka.. Idaacaddu waxa ay sheegtay in kooxdaasi ay dib ugu laaban doonaan Israa’iil bartamaha isbuuca inagu soo foodda leh. Idaacadda guud ee Israa’iil waxa ay sheegtay in xubnaha ergadaasi ay sidoo kale sameyn doonaan olole ballaaran oo xayeysiin ay ugu sameyneyso siyaasadaha israa’iil iyo diinta Yuhuudda si ay lacago iyo dad iskaa wax u qabso ku shaqeeya ay ku helaan. Dowladda israa’iil ayaa waxa ay caado ka dhigatay sida ay qoreen qaar ka tirsan wargeysyada carabta in dalalka Islaamka u dirto rag sirdoon ah oo ku gabanaya howlaha bini aadanimo ee loo qabto dadka ku sugan goobaha ay dagaallada iyo abaabruhu ka dhacaan. Kaalinta Israel ay ku leedahay dagaalka Soomaaliya

^As Somalis we've been punching way below our weight for too long. The overwhelming men and arsenal mustered against us in the Ethio-Somali war should not suprise us. As Somalis we are capable of great things as long as we have unity; and this was abundantly clear to our enemies. Its clear that our unity brings a great deal of loss and fear into the hearts of not only our neighbours but also to countries outside of our immediate neighbourhood. We ought to analyse why our enemies view us as they do.

Originally posted by Taako Man: See you purposely left out TFG troops . The two are the same in my eyes. So yes, you can add the TFG troops (many of whom are realising their mistake and leaving their positions). Secondly, the man was supposedly dumped. So if I were to dump a dead body near a police station does that mean the police did it? The Somali article says "Lasoo dhigay", the English version is even more ambiguous about how the body got there, saying "the body was lying". In any case, let's afford this innocent man his dignity and end this discussion here.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Xabash does not care, really, intee Soomaali halhal isku dhameyneyso, inay dhexgisho haka sugin habeenkii xaley tagay. Kuwii kalena dalkooda haku duulaan, kuwii kalena dhulkee xooga ku heysatay ha isku fiirsadaan iyagoo isleeynayaan . MMA, this grim assessment has become evident to even non-Somali analysts. Here's what PINR wrote in Janurary: Ethiopia would, in the best case, like to have Somalia as a client state. Addis Ababa, however, is convinced that this is impossible and is therefore content to leave the country weak and divided . Since 1977, when Ethiopia won a bitter war initiated by Somalia to annex the former's ethnic-Somali ****** region, Addis Ababa has successfully derailed attempts to unify Somalia, and it is doing the same now . Most sadly for TFG supporters: Having crushed the I.C.C., Addis Ababa is likely to work carefully to prevent the T.F.G. from becoming viable...With vital interests in Somalia that no other actor has and a long practice of playing divide and rule, Addis Ababa will be expected to exploit the inherent decentralizing tendencies within Somalia to thwart reconciliation . Another Western Analyst had this to say: A return to factional instability will be a happy outcome for Ethiopia, which has a host of historic disputes with Somalia and does not want to see a united and effective government ."

Originally posted by Taako Man: Regardless here is what shabelle say's in English . The initial article i posted was from Shabelle. The Somali and the English versions are exactly the same. The piece you highlight is repeated here in the Somali article. Originally posted by BiLaaL: inkastoo aanu jirin wax war ah oo ka soo baxay ciidamadaasi . The English version. Originally posted by Taako Man: It is not yet apparent who was responsible for the killing of the man . The conclusions drawn from the two articles are one and the same. The onething they do agree on is that the man's body was found in an area heavily populated by Ethiopian troops, hence the angry reaction from the people. Your distasteful and baseless accusations are not working. Originally posted by Taako Man: Again let us let the man rest in peace and inshallah he shall get a burial like any other muslim . I agree.