NAIROBI (Reuters) - Mohammed Abdillahi pores over court proceedings and affidavits as he waits for prayers to begin at the Jamia Mosque in downtown Nairobi. The distraught 58-year-old Kenyan spends every spare moment rallying against his government's role in what he calls the "illegal arrest, disappearance and rendition" of his son. Kenyan authorities deny any knowledge of 21-year-old Abdi Mohammed Abdillahi, but his father says the evidence is on TV. "I saw Abdi arrested at the border on the national news -- you check the tapes," the elder Abdillahi said. Abdillahi says his son, who was in neighbouring Somalia when war broke out over the New Year, is a victim of Kenya's eagerness to fall in line with America's "war on terror". "Abdi was with his brother in Mogadishu because they couldn't find work in Nairobi. Then they were running home together. His brother made it back," Abdillahi said. Human rights advocates say Kenyan authorities in January and February captured more than 100 people fleeing Somalia's war -- when Ethiopian and American-backed forces drove out an Islamist regime -- and smuggled them into a secret detention programme. In a case some have dubbed the "African Guantanamo", suspects were flown across borders in shackles and faced what rights groups call illegal, aggressive interrogation without access to consular officials or lawyers. Many have not been heard from since. "My son was born and raised in Kenya and went to primary and secondary school in Nairobi. We have nothing to do with the war in Somalia," Abdillahi said. "NO ONE DOES ANYTHING" "We have tried so much. We have documentary proof, we hold rallies, protests, taking our proof to the people, then to the police headquarters, then to the office of the president. No one does anything,"Abdillahi said. Human Rights Watch says U.S. officials were given access to about 150 suspects in Kenya. The Kenyan government later moved more than 80 to Somalia, from which many were taken and held incommunicado in Ethiopia, the group says. Ethiopia is Washington's main ally in the region. The U.S. embassy in Nairobi refused to comment on the allegations, directing Reuters to Washington where officials would not comment on specifics and reiterated a standard line: "We are still committed to fighting terrorism in the region." Abdillahi says he met with Kenya's anti-terrorism police in mid-January in Nairobi, where Abdi was being held, and was told his son would be released shortly. "A few days later Abdi calls me from Somalia. He says he was flown hooded and chained. Two days more, only able to speak for a moment, he says he is now in Ethiopia. He has no idea why." Abdillahi fidgets nervously with his gold watch as others pass him in the halls of the mosque, offering encouragement. "He is still in Ethiopia as far as I know," he says. More than 400 km (249 miles) away in Mombasa on the Kenyan coast, Bwanaheri Lali is missing his brother. He says Said Hamisi Mohamed, 25, was arrested and "rendered" to Mogadishu. "He has been missing almost a whole year. I found him in Nairobi, then he was taken to Mogadishu. Last I heard he was in Djibouti -- that was four months ago," Lali said. "We made so many attempts to contact the authorities in Kenya. First they denied everything, then when we produced documentary proof they say they will look into it, but nothing ever happens," he said. NEW FEARS The Kenyan government routinely denies any wrongdoing in the case. Last month, Internal Security Minister John Michuki took out a notice in the national dailies. "It is incorrect to claim that some Kenyans have been deported from the country," he wrote. "Fool-proof evidence (must be presented). Until this is done, the issue of deportation will continue to remain hollow and unconvincing." The move brought rabid criticism from rights groups. "We have the proof. We have statements, documents, sworn affidavits from police officers, even flight manifests that detail those who were smuggled out on commercial flights," said Al-Amin Kimathi, chairman of Kenya's Muslim Human Rights Forum, adding, "It's irrefutable." One such statement comes from Mohamed Salim, a Tanzanian who was released from captivity. His 12-page statement graphically details his arrest, rendition, interrogation and torture by a combination of Kenyan, Ethiopian and U.S. forces. "They locked us up in tiny cells and poured cold water over us regularly," he told Reuters by telephone from Dar es Salaam. He said men he identified as U.S. FBI agents beat him in an Ethiopian prison and accused him of working for al Qaeda. Back at Jamia mosque, Mohammed Abdillahi flicks through Salim's statement, a father's concern etched on his face. He has new cause for distress. His other son, Abdi's older brother, FarrahMohammed Abdillahi, 26, is missing. "On August 20, he was leaving the mosque, coming home, but he never arrived. No one saw anything," his father said. "He was being very vocal about his brother's arrest. I checked the hospitals, prisons. Nothing. His phone rang for three days but the police refused to do anything about it. Why?" (Additional reporting by Duncan Miriri, editing by Bryson Hull and Mary Gabriel) Reuters, Nov 09, 2007

3 ka mid ah shaqaalaha isbitalka SOS oo ku dhaawacmay Madaafiic galabta lagu garaacay qeybo ka mid ah Deg. Heliwaa Mogadishu 10, Nov. 07 (Sh.M.Network)- 3 ka mid ah shaqaalaha Isbitalka SOS ayaa ku dhaawacmay Duqeyn dhinaca madaafiicda ah oo galabta lagu qaaday qeybo ka mid ah degmada Heliwaa ee gobolka Banadir, iyadoo dhinaca kale israsaaseyn ay ka dhacday saldhigga booliska degmada Heliwaa. Sida ay Shabelle u sheegeen dadka deegaanka, ilaa 11 madfac oo aad u xoogan ayaa ku soo dhacday inta la og yahay xaafadaha SOS iyo Suuqa xoolaha ee magaalada Muqdisho. 3 ka mid ah shaqaalaha Isbitalka SOS ayaa ku dhaawacmay madaafiic ku soo dhacday Isbitala SOS sida ay Shabelle u sheegeen saraakiil ka tirsan isbitalkaasi. Madaafiicdaan ayaa sida ay sheegayaan dadka deegaanka waxa ay ka imaaneysay fariisimada ciidamada Ethiopia ay ku leeyihiin warshaddii hore ee Baastada iyo Maslaxa. Waxaa jira qasaarooyin kale oo ay geysteen madaafiicdaan oo wali isi soo taraya. Dadweyne fara badan ayaa isaga cararay deegaanka suuqa xoolaha markii ay bilowdeen duqeynta. Sidoo kale israsaaseyn xoogan ayaa waxa ay ka dhacday saldhigga booliska degmada heliwaa, iyadoo israsaaseyntaan ay u dhaxeysay ciidamada booliska iyo kooxo hubeysan oo ka soo horjeeda, lamana oga wali qasaaraha ka dhashay. Suuqa xoolaha ayaa waxa uu ka mid yahay meelihii dhowaan laga helay meydadka dad rayid ah oo gaaraya ilaa 12 ruux oo ay dileen ciidamada Ethiopia. Dhinaca kale 7 ruux oo hal qoys ka soo wada jeeda oo 5 ka mid ah ay yihiin Caruur ayaa maanta ku dhaawacmay xaafadda Albaraka ee magaalada Muqdisho, ka dib markii gurigooda uu ku soo dhacay hoobiye aan ilaa iyo wali la garan meesha uu ka yimid sida uu Shabelle u sheegay aabihii qoyskaasi.

Inaa Lillaahi Wa Inaa Ilayhi Raajicuun

^ Kuwani jab isdaba jira ayaa kusoo foogsan. Apart from the casualties they've suffered, the real significance of this attack lies in the fact that this bomb was denotated 90 km outside of Mogadishu. This is at least the second such attack in 48hrs and the third in 72 hours. On Saturday 3rd of Nov, five Ethiopian soldiers were injured when their convoy hit a roadside bomb in Buulo Bashiir, near Luuq. This attack was preceded by an explosion at a hotel on the Ethiopian side of Dooloow (mostly inhabited by Somalis). These attacks are unprecedented. Thus far, targeting of the occupation forces was limited to Mogadishu and its immediate vicinity. There are only two explanations for this targeting of convoys on their way to the capital. Firstly, that the resistance has mustered enough arms and fighters to be able to target the occupation at its most vulnerable (convoys - both supply and reinforcements); or secondly, that resistance to the occupation is gathering momentum among Somalis in other parts of the country. Either of the above scenarios is positive for all anti-occupation Somalis and for the resistance, in particular. If the second scenario is true (and i suspect it is), it means that Somalis in other parts of the country are no longer prepared to stand-by and watch as reinforcement convoys, whose aim is to reverse gains made by their brothers in the capital, pass through their towns and villages. Rather, increasing number of Somalis are standing up to do their part for the resistance. The aim behind this new tactic is clear: Ambush and maim in them in the capital and then move swiftly to cut off reinforcements in their tracks. Its been known for along time that the Ethiopians are most vulnerable at their poorly co-ordinated and long supply routes to Mogadishu. These roadside bombs and actions similar to them are sure to place more strain on the occupiers.

d/p

Originally posted by Khalaf: By Bilal: quote: I think the time is right for such an approach. The miseries of the last seventeen years have brought about a unique opportunity. This opportunity comes in the form of the wide consensus, across all sections of the Somali public, that serious steps need to be taken to stem the evil effects of tribalism. One can safely say that tribalism has become a threat to both our social and national security just as some Western countries view terrorism as a threat to their national security. No shiiiz nit! So the way to slove the problem is with a 1.0 tribal system with the likes of old veterns of qabil politics. Makes a lot of sense. [/QB]How about a 0.0 tribal system? Separate tribal matters from public life and certainly from politics! I know it wouldn't be such a bad idea to most Somalis. I do worry for some in this forum though.

The Point, i'll go through some of the points you've raised in your last post. I think this thread has been runnning for some time and seems to have grown tired. Perhaps those interested can start a new thread and revisit issues around this thread sometime down the track. On your first point, yes - I acknowledge that the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS) has welcomed diverse members (including H Aidid) but I don’t see that as a problem (not when compared to present concerns). I’ve reiterated this many times. The ARS welcomed the sort of people it did in order to show unity in the face of its enemies. Its political detractors would have loved to see it reject the likes of Aidid. They’ve would have accused it of being an exclusive Islamist Alliance (as some have). Furthermore, one has to ask himself: Isn’t it better to keep Aidid in the fold instead running the risk of your enemies using him against you? Besides, we all make mistakes. The man may have reformed. The diplomats flocking to Asmara are mainly from EU countries. The Europeans never really bought the idea that there were terrorists in Somalia or that the ARS have/had connections with groups tied to terrorism. The Europeans realise that the ARS is essentially a group whose objective is to liberate its country from occupation and help it towards the path of peace and prosperity. The diplomats I speak of are such diplomats. They continue to flock to Asmara because they are convinced that the ARS will, sooner or later, be seen for what it is. These EU countries simply want to wait until such time as a more cordial and sensible administration arrives at the White House. Its then that they will declare what they’ve always believed – that the TFG are a bunch of incompetent, illegimate nohopers and that the ARS (whatever flaws some may assign to it) is best placed to deliver Somalia from its troubles. Originally posted by ThePoint: Stop all insurgency operations and delcare it as so, infiltrate the TFG and its bureaucracy, agitate the public against the Ethiopian occupation after a quiet period(and here you will have the Arab states on your side), start up operations again when the Ethiopians leave and take over. This quote is a good illustration of how this thread has panned out. Infiltrate the TFG and its bureaucracy did you say? How is this feasible? Do you seriously believe that the Ethiopians are willing to allow anyone from the ARS (however ‘moderate’) to assume any kind of post within the TFG (an entity it enjoys considerable control over)? Forget a post within the TFG. Do you think that they are even willing to tolerate them as mere activists inside Somalia? This was not possible shortly after the defeat of the ICU nor is it possible now. Agitating the public against the occupation requires considerable freedom. Such freedom is just not present. You’ve seen how the Ethiopians have treated journalists in Mogadishu. Mind you, these journalists were merely reporting and not engaged in politics. You're not alone in espousing the above argument. It's this kind of argument which undermines all your efforts. NG’s alleged proposals (although he is yet to table any) bear similar shortcomings. The shortcoming in your arguments is this: Let’s say, for arguments sake, that the ARS pack their bags, denounce the resistance, declare their intention to partake in the 2009 elections and head to Mogadishu (or elsewhere in the country). Do any of you seriously think that the Ethiopians are going to let them exercise any kind of free will? Will the Ethiopians allow it to conduct political rallies or say a single word against the status quo? If any one these things aren’t possible (and they most certainly aren’t), then why the all talk about the ARS not being compromising enough? Exactly with whom can it comprise with? Surely not an occupying force eager to cut off their heads. Ethiopia is there to stay and will not tolerate any dissent. This simple fact undermines all proposals contrary to what the ARS has put forth. Some of you may argue that the ARS blew its chance and that the Ethiopians were willing to tolerate it earlier on. This is not so. The Ethiopians meant business from the start and were never going to allow anyone disapproving of their plans to have a say. We don’t live in a fair world. Stop being so naïve. In the face of a hardening occupation, set against a back-drop of an always quarrelling and incompetent TFG, the ARS appears to be the last vanguard aimed at saving our country from a determined enemy. This reflexive and vehement 'blame Ethiopia for everything' is something that I consider foolish and self-deluding. Skim through my posts and highlight where I’ve blamed Ethiopia ‘for everything’. Ethiopia for me is nothing more than a symptom. It is dissociated from our real disease. Tribalism. The ARS’s clear rejection of anything tribal from its political platform, coupled with its commitment to a truly sovereign Somalia, is what has spurred many to support them. Without this crucial ingredient, I doubt that I would have supported them as much as I do. This is where its biggest hope lies. This is what will ensure its success post-occupation. On the question of absolutism, i don't believe that the ARS been absolutist. They’ve simply been misunderstood. For example, their unwillingness to take up posts within the TFG or to partake in the 2009 elections is ingrained in their firm belief that this is impossible while the Ethiopians remain in Somalia. This unwillingness on the part of the ARS is part logic, part practical. Its not just about Ethiopian soldiers being on Somali soil but also about the feasibility of campaigning freely or of holding free and fair elections under the watchful eye of an occupier. This almost McCarthyist campaign against the ARS has to stop somewhere. It’s about time people start appreciating the logic behind some of the positions adopted by the ARS. It’s easy to howl but slightly more difficult to rationalise. *Sister Dahia - The ARS have come out with policy positions on various matters, both short and long term. Here's their manifesto in Somali. The matters you’ve raised are covered. I'm sure you'll find convincing answers to the questions you have on the ARS.

Paragon The two operative terms you’ve introduced are relevant. I think you’ve more or less struck the right chord on the question of what kind of unity is most sustainable for Somalia. You did a good job exposing both the unsustainably (assuming it gets there) and ineffectiveness of unity under a TFG-led government. I’m also glad that you've touched upon the undesirable affect that the TFG’s bondage to the Ethiopian regime brings about. Ethiopia would most certainly undermine any efforts on the part of the TFG to build strong defence forces and, to a lesser extent, develop its economy. Why wouldn’t they? Concerns in this area are glaringly obvious. I'm surprised at how some have failed to see this critical point. With respect to unity under the ARS, you’re correct that its expansionist tendencies would invite external threats. More recently, however, the ARS has been diplomatic about this issue. It has started to adopt concepts such as self-determination for the concerned regions. Like you’ve correctly pointed out, the ARS have realised the consequences of openly declaring their intention. They would provide moral and military support in private while not abandoning its claim to Somali inhabited areas, in public. In short, they would go along with the rather infamous practice of the West – adopt in private, deny in public. This practice would continue until our economic and military capabilities become strong enough to challenge Ethiopia militarily or until self-determination is granted. I would have to disagree with you on the point that the ARS would have issues integrating Somaliland and Puntland. I think public opinion in both these regions would favour the idea of joining a reunified Somali state. It would all depend on how successful the ARS have been down south. This task should be easier given that the residents of both SL and PL are not entirely happy with the way their leaders govern. Moreover, I don’t think the ARS would wish to create such a union by force – they’d most likely appeal to nostalgic concepts to woo in the public. One might recall that the ICU used Islamic notions of unity and brotherhood coupled with similar Somali ideals to appeal to the public in these regions while in power. The psychological profiling, emotion-based approach to unity is an interesting one. I wouldn’t easily dismiss the force of reason though. Reason hasn’t been given a chance ever since the ousting of Siad Barre. Emotions have been the driving force behind the chaos of the last seventeen years. I acknowledge that you’re alluding to the positive rather than the negative aspect of clan emotion. The problem with appealing to emotion alone, though, is that it is susceptible to manipulation. As we all know, the warlords notoriously used emotion to deceive their respective clans, often on non-existent threats. Much of what the warlords rallied their clans to benefited the warlords not their clans. While your proposal of invoking the psychology behind clan emotion and seeking to use that to reach consensus appears logical in the short term, it will not (to use one of your operative terms) be sustainable in the long-term. I think we should seek solutions which demote the issue of tribalism to where Allah intended it to be. And that is, the maintaining of kith and kin relationships as described in the Quran and Sunnah. As was briefly evident under the ICU, once people get a governing authority which they perceive to be just; the issue of turning to ones clan for economic gain or for protection naturally wanes. Instead of striving to influence the emotions of clan x or y (albeit positively); such a government would be able to use reason instead. It would give an undertaking that it will be just in its dealings with its subjects (from the granting of funds to improve infrastructure in a certain region to more mundane things which directly concern the individual such as equal access to jobs etc). I think the time is right for such an approach. The miseries of the last seventeen years have brought about a unique opportunity. This opportunity comes in the form of the wide consensus, across all sections of the Somali public, that serious steps need to be taken to stem the evil effects of tribalism. One can safely say that tribalism has become a threat to both our social and national security just as some Western countries view terrorism as a threat to their national security. Originally posted by xiinfaniin: If we can’t question this Asmara group and critique its composition and strategies, how good are we from the folks we continually mock and ridicule? You won't find me calling against criticism of any kind. Lets not limit ourselves to just criticising though. One needs to consider how fair or reasonable one’s criticism is, given the circumstances.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: Real Muslims Wallahi, Dhimashada way ka fiican tahay nolosha dulliga ah. Couldn't agree with you more.

1- What factual reasons do you have for taking a firm stand in favour of the Asmara Group taking into account the totality of their actions and statements? This is a loaded question. One can find flaws in any group in any situation, if one examines the totality of their actions and statements. However, for a group in its infancy, the ARS have performed remarkably well in many spheres and have already achieved many its objectives. Lets go through them. Politically, structurally The Alliance for the Re-Libertaion of Somalia (ARS) has both military and political wings. The military wing has proven itself to be highly structured and disciplined. Where does this structure and discipline come from? It comes from its political leaders. These political leaders have drawn up clear political objectives. The first objective of which is to drive the occupying forces out by force, if peaceful means fail. For those who want proof of the Alliance’s steadfastness on these objectives - they should follow the Alliances publications and search for any ambiguities or inconsistencies therein. Furthermore, the Alliance has established principled doctrine, has highly complicated and streamlined organisational structure and has shown itself to have sophisticated propaganda capabilities, time and again, with its media releases. Diplomatically Diplomatically, the Alliance has represented its case in diplomatic circles quite well, thus far. From this perspective, it is anything but irrelevant. Ever since its creation, it has been inundated with appeals from both the EU and US officials to come to an agreement with the TFG. Ambassador Yates, the US special envoy to Somalia has revealed, in numerous interviews, of his untiring attempts to bring in the Alliance (with special emphasis on the the two Sharifs). However, due to its principles, the Alliance has rejected such appeals until its principal aim is met – that of removing the occupation force. Despite these rejections, diplomats from all quarters continue to flock to Asmara seeking to influence the ARS. For example, the Arab League recently replaced its ambassador to Somalia, incensed at the ARS’s constant (and rightful) rejections of its appeals to compromise over the issue of removing Ethiopian soldiers for the time being, and instead partake in the 2009 elections. The reason for the removal of the AL Ambassador was reported to be his close ties with the ARS. I don't agree with this. I think his inability to convince the ARS to conform with the wishes of the AL was wrongly interpreted to mean that he was in fact sympathetic to the ARS. Militarily Militarily, the ARS has achieved a great deal in a very short time. It has adapted to the conditions much better than its enemy. Both the methods it has chosen (hit-and-run attacks, ambushes, raids etc) and the targets (attacks on transportation routes, Ethiopian military bases, TFG police stations, important government institutions, targeting of intelligence officials and individual TFG ministers) have been successful and are bound to bleed the occupier economically and disintegrate the political ambitions of the TFG. Liberation struggles also require strong public support. It’s clear that the ARS’s military wing has such support. Identification of the many assassinated TFG intelligence officials was most probably intelligence provided by the public, as is the case in all liberation movements. Furthermore, the counter-insurgency methods employed by the Ethiopians aimed at removing this public support has not worked and has in fact had the opposite effect. Such examples include: attempting to further exacerbate economic conditions for the public by deliberately burning the Bakara Market, and forcefully displacing whole neighbourhoods in an attempt to separate the resistance from the public. Lacking the required intelligence from the public, the occupiers have turned to less effective methods of counter-insurgency such as routine-patrols, poorly co-ordinated ambushes, and ineffective sweeps of neighbourhoods. There is no doubt that the resistance has frustrated and demoralised the enemy. The successful and continuous attacks mounted by the ARS’s military wing are sure to decrease the will of the occupier to fight. There is, of course, the force of moral legitimacy on the side of the Alliance and the resistance. The idea that the actions of the ARS have entrenched the occupation is a ludicrous one. Presumably, the proponents of this idea have something like this in mind: Let the Ethiopians do as they may; wait for the 2009 elections and allow Ethiopia to insert more of its foot soldiers in key Ministries, like defence and intelligence. And then what? Try to dislodge them then? After allowing it to get a firm foothold politically and militarily? This is a poorly thought-out position. The role of Eritrea The contentious role of Eritrea is another recurring theme. The sort of military strategy adapted by the resistance often requires outside help to succeed. Eritrea is important from that perspective. There is some truth to the idea that Eritrea is involved in a proxy war and that its support for the ARS emanates from its desire to settle scores with Ethiopia. Proxy wars are never that simple though. In this particular case, the ARS has more to gain from this relationship than does Eritrea. Eritrea’s biggest wish is for her to achieve and maintain a close, long-term relationship with any future Somali state. This it requires in order to counter-act its relative weakness with the ever present danger upon its territory by Ethiopia. It sees the ARS as a group destined to form the next Somali government and one which will not let her down. 2- What concrete reasons give you hope that the Asmara Group itself will, in the event it gains power in Somalia, send the country on the hopeful path you dream of? Is it due to the character, calibre, knowledge, experience, technical know-how, statesmanship of the individuals involved - what exactly is it? Barring the alleged former CIA operatives and turncoats, the majority of the ARS have proven their character by how loyal they’ve been to the cause of not only ending the occupation but also bringing about a better future for Somalia. Crucially, they're men who've denounced tribalism and have publicly vowed that it will no longer play any role in Somali politics. This is incredibly important for any long term success. In terms of experience, the Alliance boasts men who’ve spent a great deal of time (mostly from nationalist bloc) in Somali politics. Surely, this accounts for something. Likewise, the Alliance is not lacking in statesmanship either. Sheikh Sharif, with his serious, scholarly conduct coupled with senior men among the nationalist bloc (barring Aidid) have proven themselves and can match politicians from anywhere in their level of statesmanship. Harder tests are, of course, yet to come and only time will reveal their true statesmanship. The issue of the ARS not having enough technocrats is overplayed. One doesn’t require technocratcs in leadership positions. Technocratcs only play a supporting role. For example, if one examines leaders in the West, one can find many Finance ministers or heads of treasuries who’ve never run a business in their lives. Yet, such people are placed in charge of trillion dollar economies, if their party wins the election. This is despite not knowing much about finance. How do they succeed? Well, this is where technocrats come in. Such ministries have thousands of employees, specialists in that particular field all serving the concerned Ministry and Minister. All the Minister needs to do is have a rough idea of the sort of economic or political objectives he/she wants to achieve. The technocrats employed to serve the Ministry then get to work, draw up the required economic, legal guidelines to accompany the planned objective and sell it to the economic community and the wider citizens at large. Now surely, the ARS know what they want. They have their objectives set out and ready to go. The issue of technocrats comes in much later. I think its about time I let the ARS do its own talking. Here, i'll post excerpts from the Alliances own ideas on both interim and long-term goals. The document is in Somali. I’ve refrained from translating it into English. Honestly, I don’t think I’ll be able to do much justice in translating some of the Somali words in the document. Maybe others here can do that for us. Apologies for those who don't read Somali. Perhaps its about time you learned. Much of the reservations people have of the ARS, I think lies in them not knowing much about the groups objectives. What you read in the media is far too selective. People should read the following excepts ( or better yet, the entire document) and then decide. After reading these short excerpts, i'm sure most people will find it hard to blame the ARS for NOT having clear, unambiguous objectives - both short and long term. ISBAHAYSIGA DIB U XOREYNTA JAMHUURIYADDA SOOMAALIYA - XEERKA ISBAHAYSIGA quote: QODOBKA 5 Aragtida Isbaheysiga Dib u dhiska Mujtamac Soomaaliyeed oo ka madaxbannaan qabyaaladda, lehna wacyi iyo garaad qarameed oo ku filan, garanaya waajibaadkiisa iyo xuquuqdiisa, kuna noolaada gobanimo buuxda, nabadgelyo, cadaalad iyo sinnaan. This excerpt contains long-term goals such as the establishment of a strong, truly independent state, reconciliation, addressing the needs of refugees, establishing commissions on the war crimes committed by occupying forces etc. QODOBKA 6 Ujeedooyinka Isbaheysiga Dib u xoreynta dalka iyo dib u heshiisiin dhab ah oo u danaynaysa shacbiga soomaaliyeed, in la sugo nabadgelyada muwaadinka Soomaaliyeed, baaritaana lagu sameeyo danbiyadii laga galay ummadda, in sidoo kale wax loo qabto dadkii lagu barakiciyey duulaankii cadowga, isla markaasna loo dhiso dowlad u soo celisa shacabka Soomaaliyeed gobanimadiisa la lumiyey, taasoo dhowri doonto caqiidadiisa islaamiga ah, taariikhdiisa soo jireenka ah, dhaqankiisa suubban iyo hantida guud iyo tan gaarka ahba. Clear, unambigious guidelines on how to achieve its objectives… QODOBKA 7 Sida Isbaheysigu ku Gaarayo Ujeeddooyinkiisa Fulinta iyo meel-marinta ujeedooyinka Isbahaysiga waxaa loo marayaa arrimaha hoos ku qoran: 1. Xoojinta muqaawamada iyo la dagalaanka cadowga si looga xoreeyo dalka. 2. Mideynta maskaxda, muruqa iyo maalka shacabaka Soomaaliyeed si meel looga soo wada jeesto cadowga dalka Soomaaliyeed xoogga ku haysta. 3. Wacyigelinta bulshadda, iyadoo laga faa’iidaysanayo aqoonyahanka, culimada, suugaanleeyda, iyo dadkeena khibradda cilmi iyo hogaaminba leh. 4. Soo bandhigidda dhibaatooyinka iyo tacadiyada uu geysanayo gumeystaha iyo kuwa la shaqeeya. 5. Wadahadallo nabadeed oo dhab ah in la galo si loo xalliyo dhibaatooyinka soo gaaray ummadda Soomaaliyeed iyadoo loo maraayo dhabo sax ah. 6. Furida Xafiisyo iyo xarumo laga fidiyo siyaasadda Isbaheysiga, isla markaana loogu sharaxo qaddiyadda Shacabka soomaaliyeed ee dulman beesha caalamka, saaxiibadda Soomaaliya iyo inta nabadda jecel. QODOBKA 8 Mabaadii'da Isbaheysiga 1. Ku dhaqanka shareecadda Islaamka. 2. In Midnimada, xoriyada iyo madaxbanaanida siyaasadeed ee ummadda Soomaliyed ay tahay lama taabtaan. 3. In cadowga wadanka haysta laga saaro iyadoo loo marayo wada kasta oo suura gal ah. 4. In xalka Soomaalidu uu ku jiro in Soomaalida loo madax banneeyo arrimaheeda, lagana fogeeyo faragelinta shisheeye. 5. In la ilaaliyo dhaqanka Islaamka ee suuban ee Soomaalida. 6. Isbahaysigu wuxuu aaminsan yahay mabda'ah deris wanaagga, is-xurmeynta iyo xiriir wanaagsan oo lala yeesho dalalka deriska ah iyo caalamka intiisa kale. 7. Isbahaysigu wuxuu kasoo horjeedaa gumeysiga nooc kasta oo uu yahay, sidoo kale waxa uu diidan yahay xasuuqa, barakicinta iyo baabi'inta hantida shacabka Soomaaliyeed. 8. Isbahaysigu wuxuu aaminsanyahay hirgelinta mabda' sinaan, cadaalad iyo wadaninimo wada gaarta shacabka Soomaaliyeed. 9. Xuriyaadka asaasiga ah waa xaq uu muwaadin kasta leeyahay mar haddii uusan ka hor imaanaynin shareecada islaamka. 10. Dib u dhiska dalka horumarintiisa, & abuuridda fursado shaqo oo daboola baahida shacabka uu u qabo arrimaha noocaan ah iyo u howlgelidda dowlad wanaag iyo xukun caadil ah. 11. Daryeelka maatada dhibku ka soo gaaray dagaaladii sokeeye iyo waxyeelada Cadowga dalka iyo dadkaba ku soo duulay. B - Gudiga taakulaynta iyo difaaca (Muqaawamada) 1. Ka shaqaynta qaabka ugu haboon oo dalka looga saari karo cadowga ku soo duulay. 2. Diyaarinta daraasad ku aadan casriyaynta tabaha cadowga lagula dagaalamo, iyadoo uu daraasaadkaas u gudbinayo Golaha Dhexe ama cidda ay khusayso. 3. Soo gudbinta talo, la xiriirta baadigoobka iyo helitaanka aaladaha ugu waxtarka badan ee cadowga lagu halakayn (gumaadi) karo. 4. Soo gudbinta daraasad la xariira sidii Muqaawamadda dalka oo idil loogu baahin lahaa. 5. Hubinta iyo dabagalka in daryeelkii loo qoondeeyey uu gaaray dadkii ku tabaaloobay halganka. 6. In la sameeyo maxkamad milatery si loo xakameeyo akhlaaqiyaadka ciidanka. T- Xoghayaha Siyaasadda iyo Arrimaha dibedda 1. Ka shaqaynta xoojinta iyo wanaajinta xiriirka isbaheysiga iyo dowladaha, ururada iyo hay’daha goboleed iyo kuwa caalamiga ah. 2. Soo bandhigidda hindisayaal iyo qorshe lagu hormarrinayo xiriir wanaagsan oo lala yeelanayo caalamka intiisa kale. 3. Abuurista xiriir saaxiibtinimo oo cusub iyo sii adkeynta kuwii horey u jiray. 4. Ka dhaadhacinta iyo ku qancinta caalamka qadiyadda xaqa ah ee shacabka Soomaaliyeed ee u diriraya hanashada xoriyadii ay xaqa u lahaayeen. 5. Soo bandhigidda qadiyada Soomaaliyeed fagaarayaasha dowliga iyo kuwa hey’adaha caalamiga. 6. Xoojinta xiriirka jaaliyadaha Soomaaliyeed ee debedda iyo diyaarinta qoraalo caalamka loogu sharxayo qadiyadda Soomaaliyeed. QODOBKA 15 Golaha Dhexe ee Isbaheysiga 1- Golaha dhexe wuxuu yeelanayaa qaab dhismeedkan hoos ku qoran. • Gudoomiyaha Golaha Dhexe • 2 Guddoomiye Xigeen Golaha Dhexe • Xoghaye • Iyo 11 Guddi Joogta ah iyadoo la kordhin karo markii ay timaado baahi loo qabo iyadoo laga ansixinaayo Golaha Dhexe ee Isbaheysiga. Waxay kala yihiin gudiyadaasi sida hoos ku qoran:- b. Guddiga taakuleynta difaaca t. Guddiga garsoorka iyo anshaxa j. Guddiga warfaafinta iyo wacyigelinta x. Guddiga arrimaha siyaasadda iyo xiriirka caalamiga ah kh. Guddiga maaliyada iyo dhaqaalaha d. Guddiga Arrimaha Bulshada r- Guddiga Qorshaynta iyo Tababarada s- Guddiga Garsoorka iyo Arimaha Diinta sh - Guddiga Caafimaadka iyo Arimaha Samafalka dh - Guddiga Xuquuqal Isnaanka Iyo Danbiyada Dagaal c- Guddiga Waxbarashada Sare, Cilmi Baarista iyo Teknolojiyada. QODOBKA 24 Golaha Fulinta ee Isbaheysiga. Golaha fulintu wuxuu ka kooban yahay: A. Gudoomiye B. Gudoomiye ku xigeen C. Xoghaya-yaal xafiis iyo ku xigeenadooda oo ka kooban 12 oo kala ah: 1. Xafiiska gaashaandhiga iyo difaaca 2. Xafiiska maaliyada iyo Dhaqaalaha 3. Xafiiska Hantidhowrka Guud ee Isbahaysiga 4. Xafiiska arimaha gudaha 5. Xafiiska warfaafinta iyo wacyigalinta dadweynaha 6. Xafiiska arimaha bulshada 7. Xafiiska siyaasada iyo xiriirka Caalamiga ah 8. Xafiiska qorshaynta iyo tababarada 9. Xafiiska garsoorka iyo arimaha diinta 10. Xafiiska caafimaadka iyo arimaha samafalka 11. Xafiiska xuquuqal isnaanka iyo Danbiyada Dagaalka 12. Xafiiska waxbarashada sare, cilmi baarista iyo teknolojiyada Guddiga Xoghaynta Shirwaynaha

Originally posted by NGONGE:Don’t get offended, get better. I would not go as far as to say that I am offended by what you write, but I am disappointed. It has become abundantly clear to me that the only way to achieve an amicable end to this discussion (from your perspective) was for me to agree with you - i.e. to declare that the ideas I put forth are nothing but 'dreams'. The real dreamers of our age are those Somalis who denounce the Asmara Alliance. One can’t claim to be a realist and at the same be so unrealistic about the only group in a position to liberate our country. Unless, of course, the occupation doesn't feature prominently on your list of considerations. Some Alliance members may not resemble the genesis of greatness but so what? Got any other alternatives? Ever given the issue of alternatives much thought? The so-called ‘dreamers’ (realists, actually) like myself, on the other hand, are simply contending that the Alliance (whatever its short comings) is the best outfit we have for now. Any reasonable person would tell you that the former position, that of denouncing the Alliance, is nothing short of capitulation; while the latter is one of pragmatism. The former is irresponsible and lacking in duty, while the latter is responsible and acknowledges that now is not the best time to demand perfection(especially in the midst of an ongoing liberation struggle). And so with respect to the Alliance; these are our basic positions. I’m not so much incensed but rather bewildered about how such a simple proposition (we currently don't have an alternative to the Alliance, so let’s stick with it) can be turned on its head and made to appear the opposite of what it actually is. **The Point - I've touched on sections of the two points you've listed. I'll endeavour to address them more fully in due course. Likewise, brother Khalaf. PS - The Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS) is incredibly important to the liberation struggle and is a major player in the current political landscape (whether one acknowledges or not). I'm suprised that more people aren't following its fortunes. Although the group don't seem to be as media friendly or as visible as they once were, i can assure you that their efforts have not waned. Since NG and I have more or less arrived at an unpassable juncture, i would love to hear what other people think of the Alliance - critical or otherwise.

Originally posted by NGONGE: Now we're really flailing about! How do the Europeans fit into this argument of ours? Two men talking about their own country remember. You’re accusing Somalis of being ‘clannish’ simply because of the civil war. The significance of the European argument is to point out other instances where clan animosity has led to civil wars. Bringing the Europeans into this is meant to discredit your wrongly held notion that Somalis are especially ‘clannish’ unlike other human beings. Also, Note: when i say 'Europeans' i don't mean to say that all Europeans are from the same tribe (of course not) but rather that the continent of Europe has in it different tribes; not of all of which have co-existed peacefully over the centuries. Read on. Note that I asked 'how'! This is because I have no idea what Europeans you were talking about and what wars (it might make sense if you were more specific). Of course, someone else might choose to jump in and tell you that the Europeans are not made up of one country or people but I suppose, to you, woxo ba waa wada cadaan! I was hoping that your history would be better than that. The Europeans are essentially tribes. What else would they be? Don’t all humans form tribes or aren’t they descendents of tribes? Let me provide a few examples without going into a long history lesson. The Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Iceland) once (middle ages) shared similar culture and language. These Nordic countries changed hands many times between warring tribes. This is why, even to this day, many people in these Nordic countries claim similar heritage despite living in separate states. Similarly, the Iberian Peninsula (Portual, Spain, Gibraltor, Andorra) shares common heritage with the Iberian people. Historians have since come to know that the Iberians were themselves divided into sub tribes (no surprises there). The British-Isles (UK and Ireland), were inhabited by the Hiberani, Angles, Jutes and Saxon peoples. The Vikings - A seafaring, Nordic tribesman also entered the region around 790’s. The Normans, who’ve left a much more enduring mark (all present European monarchs are direct descendents of a Norman king) are themselves said to have Viking origins. The famous Battle of Hastings of 1066, which led to the conquest of England by William the Conqueror, was between a coalition of two tribes – Anglo and Saxon – against invading Norman tribesmen. Moreover, William invaded England precisely because he believed that he had blood relations with Emma of Normandy – the wife of the then king of England (Ethelred II). Aren’t these examples enough for you? Or has your inferiority complex reached to a level where you regard all Europeans as special ‘beings’? Ma malaa ig baa? As Nelson Mandela once said - "there will always be, in emerging nations, an enduring attraction to the ways of the colonizer". I've left the rest of your post untouched because i see no value in replying to it. There are certain principles to a debate that one must follow - your either not aware of what they are or have simply chosen not to follow them. As such, you've derailed my initial intention for wanting to to partake in this discussion. You're more interested in grandstanding than having a civil, educated discussion. The whole discussion has withered under your never-ending, ostentatious one-liners. Of course, someone else might choose to jump in and tell you that the Europeans are not made up of one country or people but I suppose, to you, woxo ba waa wada cadaan! This quote is an example of what i'm referring to. I expected better from you. One thing is for sure - i won't go down the same line.

^ The occupation has not blurred my views. The long-term goals that I espouse are closely related to the occupation. Frankly, my positive long term outlook has only come about since the start of the occupation. I won’t go too much into this for fear of confusing you even further – but I will say this: Somalis (both tribal and non-tribal) needed a big wakeup call and the occupation with all its nasty undertones, serves to provide us with just such a wakeup call. My explanations have been ‘flimsy’ and ‘easily dismissed’, have they? Flimsy, how? Dimissed, when? Do me a favour and actually address my arguments instead of just claiming to have ‘dismissed’ them, out of hot air. These empty words of yours aren’t going to advance this discussion much. This repeating ourselves business is getting a bit tiring. If you follow my replies, you’ll notice that I’ve refrained from introducing new arguments without first addressing the ones you’ve posed. You don’t seem to be doing the same. Why is that? For example, instead of putting forth arguments why you think the Alliance would/could not unite in their common struggle; you replied with something about no one being not able to predict the future! I never claimed that I could. What I did, though, was list examples where the Alliance has already comprised over and used those examples coupled with the uniting element that a liberation struggle inevitable entails to suggest that they will probably unite even further as their movement matures. This argument is far from astrology yet your answer is soaked with astrological fervour. You did the same with the history argument. In fact, you didn’t even touch that one. The argument that allegiances will shift between the TFG and the Alliance does not stand up to scrutiny. If the conflict between these two groups was over how best to organise a ceremony to swear in a new mayor, or whether to stamp tax on tomatoes or something; then yes, allegiances may have shifted. Saxib, we are not talking about whether to place tax on tomatoes though. We are talking about an occupation! In such scenarios, allegiances do not shift and if they do; they usually don’t shit from the side opposing the occupation. In this case, you don’t need to look back too far. Name one individual who has joined the Alliance and then defected back to the TFG. Just one will do. As for your continuing swipe at your fellow Somalis; one can’t do much, except remind and offer brotherly advice. You seem to have forgotten that the dilemmas facing our country are largely on the political front. Economically, our people have been able to outdo their African counterparts not only on traditional forms of trade but even on the technology front. Somalia boasts better, more reliable internet and communications services than the ever-stable Kenya. This is despite Kenya having access to Western expertise. Surely this is far away from the ‘uselessness’ and ‘impotence’ that ascribe to them. Imagine the possibilities if only we had the same stability enjoyed by Kenya for the last seventeen years. We would have out-performed not only Kenya but the rest of Africa. By now, our economy would have been in the league of the best performing economies of Asia – the so-called Asian tigers. The average Somali is an intelligent, non-tribal, freedom loving, just, decent and hardworking. The chaos of the last seventeen years was not of their own making. It’s too simplistic to say that it was. Regional and international groups coupled with local traitors combined to bring about the chaos of the last seventeen years. It is they who continue to flame instability. Yes, Somalis seem to have played their part by aligning themselves with their clans. I would not blame them for doing this. The average Somali was placed in an unbearable situation. People often follow the lead of those in power (then, warlords). Instead of assessing these set of complicated factors, what you seek to do is lay blame on the victims. This approach of yours is much too simplistic. The Europeans slaughtered one another over the centuries while vying for position, in what were essentially tribal wars. And mind you, they did it for a lot more than seventeen years. Are you willing to ascribe the same contemptible words to them? But the Europeans were…. – you’ll probably devise excuses for them won’t you? Or perhaps you won’t. Think about this one saxib. Ps – What about the reading list I suggested did you find funny? I’d love to know.

Orginally posted by NGONGE: I’m satisfied, after our last argument, that it is not due to any clannish leanings. I thought i'd start my reply with this positive comment. I've always asserted my innocence of any tribal leanings. Thank you. With regards to our discussion, rest assured saxib - I’m not taking any of your criticisms too personal. Thus far, your criticism has been constructive. Let’s hope it stays that way. I notice that you’re still maintaining that ‘I /we don’t know what we want’. So it ends. I must admit that this part of your argument is bordering on absolutism. I do admire your low tolerance for ambiguity. In this case, however, I don’t believe that I’m being ambiguous at all. I’ve clearly outlined both the foundation and context in which my argument stands. Hopefully, by the time you finish reading this latest reply, you’ll come to not necessarily agree with but appreciate some of what I contend. I know that we’ve more or less exhausted the case of the TFG but let me add a few more lines for the sake of clarity. My single, biggest contention against the TFG is this: it has blessed the occupation of its own territory and appears to be content with it, even to this day. The issue of the occupation and the obvious inability of the TFG to order the occupying force out of Somalia, render the positives you’ve mentioned about them, insignificant. The TFG is weak and I have nothing but contempt for weakness. I cannot trust the Somali republic with a group bent on appeasing the Ethiopian regime. Saxib, a policy of appeasement never succeeds in the long run. We should probably adjourn our disagreement over the TFG for now. You’re rather cleverly trying to solicit certain concessions from me. Yours is a literal version of political brinkmanship. If it weren’t for the issue of the occupation, I probably would have inclined towards your argument. To date, our discussion has been restricted to the TFG but I see that you’ve now brought the Asmara Alliance into the fold. The comparisons you draw about the Asmara Alliance and the TFG are quite valid, except for one crucial thing – the occupation. If you revisit the thread in question, you’ll notice that I did take the Alliance to task for its misdeeds. I mentioned the fact that it has members whose individual records are anything but perfect. I do not, for a moment, condone the shortcomings of these members nor of other numerous ailments that the Alliance suffers from. Having said that, however, the overriding issue for me is the occupation. If my only aim was for the revival of the republic, then sure, your argument would be entirely valid. The prerequisite for a united Somalia, however, is for an end to the occupation (presuming the occupation means anything to you). One can’t precede the other. It’s a no-brainer. As things stand, the Alliance is best placed to end the occupation, hence my endorsement of it and rejection of the TFG. Does this mean that I don’t care for long term goals beyond ending the occupation, as you’ve asserted in your last post? No. This may come as a surprise to you but I have firm belief that the Alliance can go on and achieve many of the things that I’ve previously outlined. Before you jump the gun, let me ease your tension by inserting a qualifier here - do I believe that the Alliance in its current form is capable of achieving the desired long term goals? No. Do I believe that it will eventually get there, post-occupation? Yes. A further question arises; from where does my optimism emanate? It emanates from two things: firstly, the lessons of history; and secondly, the infant state of the Alliance and its potential in forming a coherent unit, as time advances. Let’s elaborate. Firstly, history is full of examples where countries have experienced unparalleled unity, stability, advancement – all the hallmarks of a strong state – immediately after ridding themselves of the yoke of occupation. Naturally, citizens always rally behind their liberators. History is full of such examples. I believe the same will happen with the Alliance. We already have a precedent under SYL, don’t we? From that perspective, history is on the side of the Alliance. Secondly, the Alliance is still in its infancy. I believe that the sobering effect of occupation will bring about a more coherent and united group, overtime, especially post-occupation. The Alliance has already undergone some stern tests. It has managed to contain the egos of the likes of Aidid – by denying him the foreign affairs post. Other reports indicate that the Alliance also compromised over the inserting of the word ‘jihad’ in the final communiqué after the nationalist bloc within the Alliance objected to it. Come liberation, nationalist feeling is sure to overpower and nullify tribalism. By then, I believe the Alliance would have united to a point where it will be possible for them to properly employ the political capital arising from their liberation struggle and use it to achieve the goals we’ve outlined. I could continue, but I think you get the gist of my argument. Given some of the comments in your last post, the preceding must seem all too irrational to you. After all, Somalia is a ‘clannish country’ and the views of the average Somali so lacking in insight and acuity that one can’t possibly discuss them in ‘any positive light’, right?. Oh, I’m being too rational with this bunch of clannists, aren’t I? This characterisation of yours is reminiscent of the evolutionary, racist anthropological models that the colonialists once propogated(i’m surprised that a fellow Somali could hold such views). It is Eurocentric and seeks to group our people in the category of the ‘Other’. Without specifically commenting on the SOL members you’ve listed, I still have reservations on how you view your own people. I would encourage you to reconsider this view not for anyone else but for your own self-worth, saxib. Perhaps you should have a read of Edward Said’s Orientalism (if you already haven’t) or Frantz Fanon's – Black Skin, White Masks and The Wretched of the Earth.

Welcome back Castro. Your patriotic, illuminating contributions have been sorley missed - at least i did Good to have you back.

Isbaheysiga Xoreynta iyo Dib u soo Nooleynta Soomaaliya oo Warsaxaafadeed kasoo saaray Xaaladda Dalka quote: Asmara,17,October-07 (Qaadisiya.com) ISBAHAYSIGA DIB U XOREYNTA SOOMAALIYEED WARSAXAAFADEED KUSAABSAN DHACDOOYINKA SIYAASADEED EE KA SOO CUSBOONAADAY DALKA I. Abaabulka iyo tafa xaydashada magaalada baydhabo ka socota waa qeyb ka mid ah qorshaha cadawga ee ku aadan in dhamaan magaalooyinka Soomaaliyeed marba mid la bara kiciyo si damaca guracan ee ay Ethiopia ku doonayso inay dalka ku sii nagaato ugu meelmaro. II. Waa ayaan darro in hantidii shacabka, magacoodii iyo maamuuskii ay lahaayeen ay dabadhilifyada gumeysitaha u adeegsadaan dano shakhsiyadeed oo guracan, iyadoo maatidii ay soo barakiciyeen hoy iyo cunno la'aan la il daran tahay. III. Hadaba Isbahaysigu waxaa uu shacabka Soomaaliyeed iyo Bulshada caalamka ee nabadda jecel mar kale u caddeynayaa in colaada ka aloosan Magaalada laascaanood iyo goobo kale oo dalka ka mid ah ay ka dambeeyaan ciidamada Ethiopia ee dalka qabsaday, ujeedaduna waa in looga jeediyo indhaha caalamka xasuuqa iyo dambiyada dagaal ee ay Ethiopia faraha kula jirto, laguna waxyeeleeyo wada jirka iyo waxwadqabsiga bulshda, dalkana dib loogu celiyo dagaalladii sokeeye ee hore u soo aafeeyey. IV. Isbahaysigu waxa uu bogaadinayaa waxqabadka iyo guulaha ay ka soo hooyeen muqaawamada wiiqidda awoodda ciidamda dalka ku soo duulay, waxa kale oo uu baogaadinayaa midnimada ay muujiyeen bulshada Soomaaliyeed oo isu istaagtay in ay aayahooda ka tashadaan, waxa uuna xasuusinayaa oraahdii ahayd gacmo wada jir bay wax ku gooyaan. V. Isbahaysigu wax lug ah kuma laha arrinta Laascaanood, waayo waxa uu u taagan yahay dib u xoreynta dalka iyo badbaadinta shacabka naf iyo maalba, eedynta ka soo yeereysa dadka qaarkoodna waa mid aan loomeel dayin ayna ka muuqato masuuliyada ka carar. VI. Gabgabadii Isbahaysigu isagoo ku kalsoon in ay ummadda Soomaaliyeed waayo-aragnimo u leedahay khiyaamooyinka gumaysiga iyo dabadhilifyadiisa ee soo jireenka ah waxa uu waxgaradka Soomaaliyeed, dhaqanka iyo bulshada qeybaheeda kala duwan ugu yeearayaa inay oraahdooda iyo adinkooda u mideeyaan sidii dalka loo xoreyn lahaa, loogana hortagi lahaa dhiig sokeeye oo micnala,aan u daata, waxa uuna ku boorinayaa inay ka gaashaantaan hagardaamada cadawga uu ku doonaya dadka iyo dalkaba inuu ku qeybiyo. Xafiiska warfaafinta Asmara , 16/10/2007

^^Its hard for you to understand ‘what I want’, when acceptance of the TFG is the yardstick by which you judge the validity of other peoples’ arguments. The reason you fail to understand my argument is because there is nothing that I want from the TFG. Don’t confuse the things that that I want with who is best placed (in your eyes) to achieve them. Your confusion appears to lie in the latter. You seem to think that the TFG is best placed, whereas I don’t. Does this then invalidate what I want? If so, on what basis? If your refuting my argument based on practicality, then that’s a different issue. My argument may not be harmonious with the here and now but again this doesn’t disqualify it. It’s an argument meant for a post-occupation, post-TFG era. The effort required to bring about the post- era that is speak of, is already underway. I’m a little puzzled by the ‘waxaa la yidhi’ judge that you raise. I’m not one to practice such things. The TFG does not have support among the Somali public. There is universal agreement on this point, even amongst the TFG’s biggest supporters both at home and abroad. Have you forgotten that the Somali people (apart from a few tribal capitalists) had no say in the formation of the TFG? Sadly, your dismissiveness of this almost universal fact appears to lie in your recurring lack of respect for the wishes of the average Somali. Originally posted by NGONGE: If it were about patience, principles or moral positions you would not be incessantly commenting on the situation in Somalia and praising this group or condemning the other. You would distance yourself from all, and, like many Nomads we have here (mostly females incidentally) offer no political comments other than those related to humanitarian issues. What is wrong with one advocating on behalf of the principles and moral positions that one holds? Indeed, what good is holding a principle, if one doesn’t advocate it himself and calls others to practice them. Isn’t ‘amr bil maruf wa anha anil munkar’ the bedrock of the highest human endeavour? Praising or condemning the actions of the different stakeholders (not restricted to the TFG) in the Somali conflict is a must on every Somali. You can’t seriously be suggesting that we should all remain quiet and reserve our comments for humanitarian issues. We speak out either in favour or against certain actions / groups, precisely so that we can prevent humanitarian crises from occurring in the first place.

****** Rights Group Says Refugees in Somalia Face Roundup, Deportation By Peter Heinlein Addis Ababa, Ethiopia 17 October 2007 A group concerned with human rights in Ethiopia's eastern ****** region says refugees fleeing to neighboring Somalia are being rounded up by Somali authorities and handed over to Ethiopian troops. VOA's Peter Heinlein in Addis Ababa reports Ethiopia's government rejects the allegation. A news release received at the VOA bureau in Nairobi says ethnic Somalis escaping an Ethiopian government crackdown in ****** face arrest and deportation. The release, issued by the ****** Human Rights Committee, alleges that Somali authorities are trading captured refugees in return for ammunition and materials or simply to prove loyalty and friendship to Ethiopia. Senior Ethiopian government official Bereket Simon denied the allegation in a VOA telephone interview. Bereket says those arrested were terrorists. "We have detained terrorists. We have detained members of terrorist groups. That is normal," he said. "And, we will do it again if we get the chance. I do not think we should be denied the right to defend ourselves. That is what we have been doing and if anybody translates this into human rights abuse, that is his problem, not ours." Conflict has been raging in the eastern region of Ethiopia since April, when fighters of the ****** National Liberation Front attacked a Chinese-run oil exploration team. Seventy-four people were reported killed in the attack. The impoverished region had been virtually closed to foreigners, including journalists and aid agencies, for months. But aid officials told VOA this week that food shipments have resumed and that fresh supplies are enough to feed needy people in the region for six months. The cutoff of supplies had prompted human rights and aid groups to accuse the government of creating a humanitarian crisis. But Ethiopia's Prime Minister Meles Zenawi defended the action. Meles described the ONLF rebels as "cold-blooded murderers" bankrolled by neighboring Eritrea, and vows they will be crushed. The ONLF says it is fighting for greater autonomy for the mostly ethnic Somali people of the region. The ****** region is considered the poorest in Ethiopia. It is home mostly to Somali nomads. The predominantly Muslim area has kept its own distinctive identity, doing most of its trading with Somalia and the Middle East, rather than with the rest of Ethiopia. source

Originally posted by Fatah_Al_Soomaal:By Steve Bloomfield in Bosasso quote: Early one June morning, in Kamuda, a village of 200 families in the remote ****** region in eastern Ethiopia, 180 soldiers announced their arrival by firing guns in the air. As the villagers froze in horror, the soldiers plucked out seven young women, all aged between 15 and 18, and left. The following morning the youngest girl was found. Her body, bloodied and beaten, was hanging from a tree. The next day a second girl was found hanging from the same tree. A third suffered the same fate. The others were never seen again. Shukri Abdullahi Mohammed, 48, a mother of seven children, lived in Kamuda. As she describes the fate of the seven girls – "the most beautiful girls in the village" – she tightens her headscarf around her neck to indicate the way they were killed. "I will not forget it," she says. Days later, a 12-year-old boy from the same village was kidnapped by soldiers and gang-raped. Every night, soldiers would knock on doors looking for women to rape . "I did not want to wait until it happened to my family," said Mrs Mohammed No news coming out of Somalia overwhelms me as much that which comes out of Somali galbeed. The above snippets of information send shivers down ones spine. Apart from medieval times, no other people have had to endure what our fellow Somalis are enduring in Somali galbeed. Even the brutality of the Russians in Chechnya pales in comparison. How cold have we become? The fate of those seven young, beautiful Somali sisters or of that 12-year old boy... - i really don't know what to write The only thing which consoles one in the face of this neglect is knowledge that, after all of this, will follow Yowmul-Qiyaama. Oh, how unjust would this world have been without the accountability of the next. Ilaahow adaa weyn oo waaxid ah.

^I may sometimes come across as a hopeless optimist but I assure you that this is a misguided perception on the part of others. My own ideas are straightforward and sensible. There is an unhealthy tendency, in this forum, for anyone advancing the concept of Somali unity to be frowned upon and dismissed. I shall keep Paragon’s earlier advice in mind from now on. Am I serious about the ideas that I espouse in this forum? Absolutely. Is it perfection that I’m after? No. You accuse me of not knowing what I want. Exactly how did you come to that conclusion? Is it because I refuse to endorse the TFG? I do not reject the TFG simply because of their facilitation of the Ethiopian occupation. The TFG has numerous other deficiencies; none of which require much delineation. The TFG doesn’t have my support because I know it will not be able to fulfil the goal of reviving the Somali state. If the TFG were composed of technocrats, however corrupt, and were it not to have allowed the occupation of its own territory, then I would have supported them. I don’t deny that the TFG has some definite positives. Yes, they do have military muscle, albeit a foreign one; financial aid from some quarters, although it’s quickly drying up, and of course unqualified recognition internationally. I do, however, have reservations on the claim that it has support in large parts of Somalia. You’ve summoned your energy on the argument that logic dictates that I support the TFG. In fact, its logic which pushes me away from the TFG. Despite the postives you’ve listed, the TFG lacks the biggest drawcard of all. The support of the Somali public. Perhaps the Somali public and their wishes don’t mean much to you. Lets face it, exactly who cares about it these days? Everyone shifts it aside, so why not join the bandwagon, right? Well, I happen to differ. Perhaps, this is one of the reasons why some of my ideas appear hopelessly optimistic. Because I care about the wishes of the average Somali. That seemingly invisible being, is highly visible in my eyes. I do care about the wishes of the widows of Hodan and the youth of Yaqshid and indeed of Somalis all over the country. In their eyes, the TFG was dead on arrival. Your talk centres on political expediency. It is this that you call me to. As your argument goes, why not support the most visible sign of a Somali state in over a decade. Hell why care, if your aim is for the formation of the Somali state. The love for my country and, above it my people, bars me from following your logic. I would be injuring the sacrifice of our former freedom fighters. Supporting the TFG simply because it has foreign backing while dismissing the wishes of the very people it’s suppose to represent is incompatible with my ideals. I don’t mean to sound rude, but your logic is devoid of wisdom. Yes, mine is a nationalistic wish but by no means a blind one. I believe we can and will get back our Somali republic but not via the likes of the TFG. Finally, let me attempt to address your oft-repeated question –what do I want. This is by no means an exhaustive list, since your question is vague. Put simply, I want the formation of a strong, truly independent Somali state. One which is free of outside interference; one which truly cares about its people and reverses the worth of the Somali in the eyes of the World; one which takes steps to address the plague of tribalism in order to ensure its chaos never gets repeated; one which provides universal education and health care and manages its resources wisely; one which doesn’t abandon its fellow citizens in the occupied regions but assists (not necessarily by force) them in their campaign for self-determination. If your above question is aimed at the rather separate question of ‘how do we get there’? Then I would say this. Not by deviating from the ideals of our culture and of our religion. If that is too vague a reply, then perhaps you should rephrase your question. Talking of pragmatism? What is more pragmatic than the path taken by likes of MMA, when he overlooks his desire for his long-awaited blue flag and rather chooses, out of principle, to endure with patience. Surely, his great love for the revival of the Somali state should have pushed him in the arms of the TFG right? Saxib, the logic which you wish to apply is much too simplistic. Dare I say, your supposed emotional detachment doesn’t seem to have helped your judgment.

DB

Khalaf - The alternative is for them to do away with their clans and turn their attention to being proper citizens of the Somali state. They're not stateless people now but they will be soon, if they don't change their ways.

Ngonge, we are not so engrossed in the concept of a unified Somalia that we are willing to do away with our deeply held notion of justice. The TFG has Somali blood on its hands and is not principled enough. The Somalia republic is too precious for us to trust it with a bunch of capitalist traitors. Plus, they're too controversial to act as a uniting voice even if they were to be successful in reviving the Somali republic in some form.

Mutual and respectual agreement it is, Paragon. You're not being philosophical at all. Just reasonable and entirely just. Khalaf - SOL members may not be policy makers but they are Somalis. Its not my intention to raise their ego. I abhor any Somali, at this critical stage of our history, who blindly follows the line of his/her tribe. I'm simply trying to awaken them to their illogical stance at this grave hour. Fatah_Al_Soomaal - exactly my point. You've come up with some brilliant examples.

Paragon - history will judge both parties. Rest assured though, future generations will favor those who call for the reunification of the Somali state more than they will ardent separatists. This i can guarantee.