Apophis;917621 wrote: First, there is no "courts" with legitimacy let alone impartiality or any other basic criteria essential for an institution to be called a "court" (how can there be when the government itself is struggling with these things?). If the courts in operations now and the ones being currently formed don't have legitimacy, who does? Ironically, you're taking the same position Al Qaacida has taken, namely that this government and its institutions are illegitimate. And if you are now dismissing these courts as lacking legitimacy, what makes you think others will not dismiss as illegitimate other process or avenues acceptable to you? Two, some very limited and insignificant amount of properties may have been returned but there's no evidence such restitution were the result of a governmental "court". Those who got their properties back, I would posit, had done so through informal avenues. At least people are getting their properties back, which is what we're debating. That Somalia's legal institutions are at nascent stages goes without saying. Only the deluded can seriously expect Somalia, a country without central authority for more than 20 years, to have fully functioning legal system. The point remains, people HAVE gotten their properties back. Those who still have properties to get, will hopefully get them back in the near future. There is no reason to get hysterical about this issue which is minor issue. Somalia has bigger fish to fry like mass illiteracy, worst infant and maternal mortality rates in the world, lack of clean drinking water, famines, food shortages, piracy, private militias depredating the countryside, Islamic extremism, etc. The majority cannot wait for the criminals living in their properties to get a conscience and hand it back to them. You can't be serious. Are you telling me a guy living in Toronto, Canada enjoying free world class healthcare, free education, employment or benefits, peace and justice, 3 square meals and a roof over his head, etc.... that guy can't wait for 5 years until Somalia gets on its feet and we have functioning legal system? Don't tell me you're that naive! If this issue is REALLY about redressing illgotten properties, I can assure we can wait few more years. It is not a pressing issue for Somalia right now. In sum, there's no evidence of any legitimate Somali law court functioning which has the power to evict looters or grant any meaningful restitution. And your solution to this is to throw the baby with the bathwater, right? Tell us, what do you realistically propose? And your suggestion that the victims should " try their luck now and go back like many Somalis are doing" is both laughable and cruel. You want them to lose their lives on top of their worldly goods?? You gotta to be kidding me. Thousands upon thousands of Somalis from every clan extraction are returning to Xamar to either visit, start business or other projects or reclaim/renovate their properties. Your fears muderous cabal waiting to murder people for seeking to get back their properties are simply unfounded.

Actually, it is best that Somalia has weakly armed Military. We are still reeling from the deleterious effects of having one of the largest armies in Africa - the country has become awash with weapons that are still killing us. So, the smaller and lightly armed the army the better. But what we lose in size and armoury should be compensated by competence and capabilities. We need highly professional, mobile army that can quell militias at moments notice. No militia in Somalia has heavy weapons like tanks and artillery, so there is no need for heavy weapons. Just few AFVs, planes, ships will do fine. And what is wrong with the National Army (NA) in Benadir region being composed of clans that settle that region? The NA in Jubba regions are comprised of clans from that region. What's the difference?

Wadani, I'm not denying anything only questioning popular claims like Somaliland progress. I'm asking what progress? Somaliland shilling is weaker than when it was first put into circulation, where is the economic progress then? Somaliland is no closer to recognition today then in 1991, so where is the political progress then? You say successful elections were held, I don't deny that. But weren't fair and free elections also held in the early 2000s? Is it really a political progress to hold more fair and free elections? I think not. To me progress entails Somaliland getting closer to its stated objective: recognition.

Wadani, I'm only telling you what Somalilander who left Canada for Somaliland told me. He wasn't too keen on what he saw in Somaliland.

oba hiloowlow;917588 wrote: I understand where you and Xiin are coming from its a petty we're having this discussion in 2013 No you do not! Xiin is on record as saying he is not interested in justice he just wants to wage political war agianst beesha USC. I have always stated that we need justice for all Somalis. I said that before folks here found out their property was looted. And I'm saying it now. If your property was illegally expropriated by private citizens, you should get it back. No one is against that. We're just against this blatant demonization and attack on a whole Somali clan as "looters." Not only is this morally repugnant but it will make justice nigh impossible.

Jacpher;917584 wrote: ^You sure do know how to recruit the clan. How many have you led to the battle front for the late Gen? Spoken like the truly outwitted. Dhaqane single-handedly put this whole calaacal to a screetching halt by stating "if you have documentation for your alleged looted property, go to Xamar to seek redress not youtube or SOL." For that he was called "a looter who lives in stolen property," a clear personal attack the MODs decided to turn blind eye to. I joined the fray outwitting you and I get called "a foot soldier for Halyeey Ceydiid." No offense Jacpher but you're simply not intelligent enough to navigate delicate discussions like this.

oba hiloowlow;917574 wrote: Im i naive or un-intelligent cause i want justice for all clans? Naga daa dee im not seeing everything from my clan's perspective If you actually believe Somalis are interested in justice, you're not only naive but downright daft. Somalis only care about demonizing and subjugating other Somalis. Justice to Somali means subjugation and humiliation of other Somalis. What else do you need? Xiinfaniin admitted so himself. He said he all this calaacal is to gain political capital against beesha USC. That you didn't sniff this blatant clan attack earlier reinforces what I said of you above.

Apophis;917561 wrote: I call BS on that. There are no credible courts. This is Somalia we're talking about not the Hague. Jesus!! Are you saying courts HAVE NOT returned looted properties? If you are, you're simply misinformed. I know the courts and legal system is Somalia is far cry from ideal but there are at least there and will get better with time. If people actually are missing property let them wait until things get better or try their luck now and go back like many Somalis are doing.

xiinfaniin;917555 wrote: ^^LOL Waryaa Raamsade , waxaad calaacalka u qabto waa effective political leverage. Waa lagaa matajinayaa iyadoon baahi loo qabin. Caqli aad intaa ku fahamto allaha ku siiyo. I know that but thanks for actually admitting to it. I've already alluded to this fact before in another topic. This whole talk about "stolen properties being returned to rightful owners" is cheap political gimmick by people who lost the civil war. Instead of duking it out with the USC folks in the battlefield or other avenues, the ploy now is to morally blackmail them with the tag "thieves who live in looted property." But no intelligent son or daughter of beesha USC (I still have hope that Oba is semi-intelligent but that hope is vanishing very rapidly!) will entertain such idea. Somalis from all corners of the Somali world are now congregating in Xamar to get back stolen. The only Somalis who are whining and whinging on Youtube and the internet with phony apprehension and misgivings about going back to reclaim purported looted properties are our brothers from the cursed tree. But by actually admitting that is all political gimmick you have proven to all fair minded Somalis that you are not really interested in justice. You just want to continue the civil war by other means. This whole looted property calaacal was just a ruse to hoodwink naive Somalis like our brother Oba. Sxb we don't want to relive the Civil War. We want to move on. Remember those victims and never forget, yes. But we want to move on and herald a new dawn not go back to the dark ages.

nuune;917539 wrote: Daqane and Raamsade said this: Ciddii hanti laga dhacey caddeymo hala timaato, how is that possible when everyone was running for their life leaving behind everything they own or possess , this is the part that Daqane was avoiding for the whole discussion of this thread, and I have being reading the posts very closely, Raamsade , and Daqane , please explain the point I raised or the bolded text. It is possible some people have lost their title deeds, it happened in many conflicts around the world and justice was eventually found. But surely the best way to seek redress is through proper channels. Youtube and whining on the internet is not the proper way. That is what I and Dhaqane are saying. There are courts you can turn to; the legal environment in Somalia is getting better and in due time everyone will be able to go back to Somalia (from Saylac to Ras Kambooni) to get justice without fear or prejudice. Lakin min fadlak, naga daaya caalacalkan dhoocilaha. Nin weyn Somali sheeganaya oo labbo qooro leh oo intuu dad hor yimaada ku calaalacalya "waa la i gumaadey, hanti aa la iga dhacay" adinka Somali idil uga horeeya. Nimanhayow Ilaahey ka baqa raggii Somalida waa ceebeeseen ee sidaan isku dhaama.

oba hiloowlow;917538 wrote: Daqane is a nice guy he is missunderstood War ninyahow maxaa kaa maqan? It is clear as daylight that Dhaqane is being witch-hunted for no reason other than he is proud son of the mighty and noble USC clan. No where in this thread did he even remotely hint that no homes were looted or that those who lost property are not entitled to compensation. All he said was "if what you are saying is true, the best avenue to seek redress is through proper legal chanels not Youtube. I think that is noble and dignified stance. As a result he's been subjected to one personal attack after the other, clearly SOL doesn't think upholding it is own Gold Rules applies to all members. He's been asked offensive questions like "how many looted properties do you own?" or some such. Marka ninyahow caqliga Ilaahey kuga sedey adeegso ee nacasnimada ka har.

^Yaa akhi, history didn't start 1991 and didn't stop in 1991. And the sad events of early 1990s were natural and logical end-product of policies pursued by S. Barre regime and which was wholeheartedly and enthusiastically endorsed by large sections of these purported victims. Hatred begets hatred. Violence begets violence.

Wadani, what accomplishments ninyahow? Waxaa roon in runta la isku sheego. Somaliland has actually regressed politically, economically and I would even say militarily. The Somaliland shilling is weaker now than when it was originally put in circulation, am I wrong on that point? Somaliland is no closer to recognition (the sole purpose of creating Somaliland in the first) todan then when independence was first declared. Lately, they've been 1001 different militias popping up all over Somaliland... some have grown emboldened enough to start their own "state" and militia.

War yaa Ilaahey yaqaan! Nimanyahow beesha Ilmo Jaberti ka soo jeeda, maxaad uga wada goobateen Dhaqane? War isku xishooda ha ceebeen tolka geedka inkaaranaa ka soo daadegtey. Maxaana ku haaysataan Dhaqane aan eheen runta? Wuxuu yiri "kii cadeyn u haaysta hantidiisa, cadeyntaa Xamar ha la tago." SOL ama Youtube ama Internetka laga calaacalo waa wax labolabo ah hanti la dhacayna kuma soo noqon karto. Marka sidaan waa laga roonyahee nimanyahow sheeko kale meesha la imaada. Dhaqane ma oron cidna hanti laga ma dhicin ama xaq u ma laha in loo soo celsho hantidooda inkastoo ani aan ogoleen in hanti loo soo celsho dadka videogan ku jira. Hadduu saa oron lahaa ani ruuxey aa hilfaha u laabi lahaa. Balse ma oron sidaa. Marka waxaa Dhaqane lagu haaysto waa gardarro xad-dhaaf ah.

I wonder what Liverpool's think of Benitez now. Since he left them Liverpool went from nadir to another with no end of this misery in sight. I remember when Benitez was in charge Liverpool were formidable foe, they knocked Chelsea out of the CL twice if I remember correctly.

This is total waste of time. Priority numero uno should be assessing the qualifications of civil servants IN Somalia doing acutal work to help Somalis. How is the ambassador to Cape Verde gonna help destitute Somali mother languishing in one of Mogishu's squalid IDP camps?

*Ibtisam;914000 wrote: Wiix teegaya haa taago. Lool... arooy, xaa tiri? Maa iska tiraahdid "wixii tagaya ha iska tagaan?" Anyways, I think the alert is based on what the Brits discovered during the Mali Operation against Alqaacida in the Maghareb not necessarily in Somaliland. I doubt the inkaar-qabihii Godane has anything to do with this alert.

Africa is too big and diverse to function as one political unit but it can do with more economic and political cooperation. So CBE (Conqueror of British Empire) Robert Mugabe has his heart at the right place.

oba hiloowlow;911972 wrote: The separation of Eritrea from Ethiopia is said to have ushered in the era of disintegration of African states along tribal and ethnic lines. “The secessions of Eritrea from Ethiopia and South Sudan from Sudan are seen in retrospect as precursors of this era in which the boundaries across the Sahel are redrawn. States fragment along sectarian, tribal, and ethnic lines. “ I would take this report seriously if its core argument wasn't so risible. I mean what is the moder nation state if not political organization along tribal or ethnic lines? Just about every European nation state is premised on one tribe or ethnicity; some states are based on a single family. That doesn't to bode ill for Europe, why should it for Africa?

What's with the Melez pictures everywhere?

These guys are just bullies.

Agrarian encompasses nomadism too. Agrarian = based on agriculture or eking out a living from the land. Nomadism is one form of agriculture. Anyways, geeljire is superior to everyone else I don't care what others say.

Wadani;908703 wrote: So do u agree with his lastest rant about the diaspora's anshax xumo? Of course I do. Unrelated sexes holding hands as they sashay Lido beach, swimming naked or half-naked, doing other naughty stuff... facshar weeye waxaas oo ku lid ah dhaqankeena. Edebdaradda heerka ee hadda marayso waxaad ka ogaan kartaa gabdhaha Somalida waxee ayaamahan ragga ka dalbadaan... gabdhaha ayaamahan waxee dalbadaan dhunkasho. Bismillah! What's next? Foreplay? Sex toys? Bikini and thongs? Istaaqfuralaah! Intaa heerka bilaa dhaqan aan gaarin so ma habboona in aa raacno talada ina adeerkey Tarzan, radiyalaahu canhu, soo jeediyey?

Wadani, you need to ask the dinasours among us (you know who you are!) I'm too young to know anything about that tradition. But I don't mind resuscitating that practice I can think a number SOLers who I like to throw off cliffs.

Waraa Nuune, maxaad la neeftuuree sxb? Caga dhigo, orod koob shaah ah soo cab, saliid macsaro is mari, xaaska dhegta ka soo qaniin dabadeedna adoo degan oo gaggabeyn dib u akhri this thread. Cid meesha Islam caaysey ama tustey neceeb Islam loo qabo ma jirto... marka ninyahow naga daa is yeelyeelka.