GaroweGal;817706 wrote: It’s a valid question. It is not a valid question at all. In fact, it is not a question but rather a bold, unsupported statement with a question mark at the end of it. It is what lawyers call leading question or loaded question in debating circles. Anyways, I never met or read about any atheist who cares what God/s theists believe provided those self-same theists don't foist their particular sectarian agendas on others. Of course, we know our Muslim and Christian friends can't but help themselves imposing their sectarian dogma on others to the point of physical harm especially with respect to unbelievers as best exemplified by the death injection for apostates in Islam. By virtue of being apostate I'm liable to get my head chopped off by some crazed Jihadi who thinks he's fulfilling Allah's will. That is the real problem not the phony and contrived outrage at atheists who dare to rebuke crazed Jihadis blighting our world today. From Morocco to Indonesia not a day goes by without Jihadi miscreants terrorising poor civilians all the while claiming they're doing as their religion enjoins. Surely, you agree with methat sort of madness is something that must be countered and fought athesits and theists alike, no? GaroweGal;817706 wrote: These so 'called' atheist desire we abandon our beloved faith, just in case hell and heaven is true we will all share the same fate. No, Athiests desire secularism where all people regardless of their believe status are treated equally.

Yes, Allah willing. I plan on ressurecting Jowhar Rum which was of decent quality by international standards. That and opening swanky bars along the Xamar's beaches where the faithful can quench their thirst after exhausting sermons from local Wadaads.

Somalicentric;817347 wrote: Yep, they're just as much part of the established structures of organization & belief... no matter how hard they try to deny it lol Not any more than you're an atheist for rejecting all Gods except Allah. Fear Allah my friend. It is interesting that the biggest world religions evolved at a time when most of humanity couldn't read or write relying wholly on mystics and clerics to explain just about every phenomenon they couldn't fathom from movement of the sun to life after the grave. Very few people belong to religions that are less than 300 years old. This fact is important because modern science was born about 300 years ago. Science, being better at explaining mysteries and offering more plausible explanations for our place in the universe, has all but rendered organized religions obsolete. In the West, religion is completey dead irrespective how many people profess membership in a particular religion. The violence and fanaticism accompanying the so-called Islamic Revivalism is emblematic of Islam's final death throes as the faithful are realizing the painful reality that Islam is slowling withering away into irrelevency just like Christianity in Europe few centuries ago.

The Quran is the very issue at contention, so it can't be used to substantiate Allah's existence or refute Atheists. It is very much akin to arguing that Honda is the best car in the world because the CEO of Honda said so. It is circular reasoning taken to the extreme. Atheists don't believe in God, angels, heaven and hell schemes, prophets, holy books, and the rest of Alice in Wonderland stuff that is the hallmark of Abrahamic religions. Before the Quran can challenge Atheists, the following conditions must be satisfied: 1. Prove Allah exists 2. Prove Allah communicated with Mohammed entrusting him with a message for all mankind (unless you lived in the Western Hemisphere - no prophets ever sent to the Americas) that is embodied in a book called the Quran 3. Prove that the Quran we possess today is the unaltered original version given to Mohammed by Allah We have no good reasons to believe any of the conditions above hold true.

I see nothing wrong with these ads but whatever controversy they solicit will pale in comparison to what the Atheist bus ads of few years ago recieved. As I recall, a lot of Muslims were downright hostile to those innocuous Atheist ads. Now the self-same Muslims want warm reception. Well, as they say Karma is b...

Che -Guevara;816842 wrote: AS are Somalis No they're not. There is nothing Somali about Alshabaab. Their behaviour, tactics, ideology even the strain of Islam they practice are all alien to Somalis.

Yes, Haplogroup E is definately African. Any non-African carrying Haplogroup E has recent African ancestory. Almost all black Africans are E including Somalis. Then there is the Bushmen of the Kalahari and related groups (groups that speak click languages like the Hadza) who are A or B I think which they share with some Southern Sudanese groups like the Dinka/Neur. It is important to note that DNA doesn't "prove" race rather demonstrate recent ancestory. For example, two villages in the same country will differ genetically by virtue of each village marrying people within their own village. But it would be preposterous to suggest these two villages are two different races due to genetic dissimilarities. Genetic difference doesn't denote racial difference only ancestory.

If by black you mean people with recent native African ancestory, then they're not black. They're descendants of some of the earliest Out of Africa humans as attested to by their DNA and they don't speak African language. We, Somalis, are black/African because we're more than 95% African by DNA and 100% African by language. The Andamanese people (the people at the center of the recent "Human Safari" scandal) are even more interesting because if you were to see them walking down the street in your city, you'd think they're African/black based on phenotype (appearance). But by DNA and language, they're Asian. We're only having this discussion thanks to a lot of people still clinging to 18th century Eurocentric race model that divides humans into 3 races dismissing any "race" that doesn't fit this model nicely as "mixed/hybrid." There are no such thing as hybrid/mixed race since such notion presumes the existence of pure races, no such thing exists. Once you ditch the 3 race model and the very concept of race, which is scientifically meaningless, your confusions and questions will dissipate.

What the hell is wale? I heard gaariwaDe but never gaariwaLe. I think Shaati and surwaal are also Indian.

Paragon;813710 wrote: Mr. Raamsade, may I ask, is there one definition - or rather a 'delineation of the contours' of the constituency - of 'true knowledge' that you adhere to more than others? A positivist kind? I wonder. If so, perhaps you could be forgiven for casting all under one 'reality'. Afterall what we are all dealing with here are our endorsements of 'make-beliefs' and 'revealed-beliefs'. The only truth here is that we have multiple competing truths, objectivist or rationalist facts included. What I sense here is that you're advocating for the supremity of facts over held truths. Maybe pitting fact against fact or truth against truth would be the better protocol. If the opposite is done then the confusion remains for good. Let the believers belief and non-believers battle with non-believing facts. On that note, know that rationality itself is a state of mind that frequently changeful in accordance with ushered events. Don't shift about with them - simply remain. True knowledge is, to me at least, any body of facts/truths that are open to falsification or are ponderable augmented by strong empirical evidence. For example, the "knowledge" of photosynethesis is true one because: (1) there is strong empirical evidence for it and (2) it is falsifiable. In contrast, astrology is not a true knowledge as it lack both hard evidence and is completely unfalsifiable. Regarding competing truths, I disagree strongly. We have a fairly reliable standard to tell truth from falsehood and that is evidence. Like the protaganist from Dostoevsky's Notes from the Underground who riled against the oppressive "fact" that 2+2=4, you too are free to disagree with that truth or have your own alternative truth. That doesn't change the fact that 2+2=4 or a falling object will continue to fall if unmet by opposing object. The truth, as the X-Files use to tell us, is literally out there. By "out there" I mean it is outside of us humans and our opinions, feelings, views, etc. The existence of Dinosaurs is incontrovertible fact. It was a fact before humans existed. It was a fact before humans discovered about the existence of dinosaurs. It was a fact after humans found out about the existence dinosaurs. You see, the truth of dinosaurs, like all truths, is independent of what we think or even if we exist at all. So there can not possibly be competing truths. Competing truths are mere opinions. But that doesn't mean opinions are without merit. We have a second tool at our disposal called reason that we can employ to assess the validity of competing claims.

Mario B, no disrespect buddy but I don't think you're in a position to reject Evolution Theory as you like both the requisite intellect and the education. You sound like the typical unwashed, gullible Muslim regurgitating the trite platitudes of Islamic polemicists. I know you can do better. Stop believing whatever a hairy, sister marrying, boy diddling, rice munching Asiatic tells you. And don't you dare tell me ina laxwase and ina bud seexde told you about how preeminent scientists world over got it so wrong about Evolution Theory. Those guys have smarter things to do with their time like molesting camels and raiding the clan next door. No self-respecting Somali would waste his time with the past-time musings of inferior foreigners and certainly not that of lowly Asians. You say you're a fan of Ahmed Deedat but why not be a fan of equally daft, misogynistic, illiberal Somali wadaads like Sh. Boqol Soon or Sh. Umul or what have you? I don't like prelates in general but I have special disdain for prideless Somali prelates who try to foist on Somalis alien ideas they got from Pakistansi or Arabs. I have special reverence for Somali wadaads of old who, while being completely wrong about eternal salvation and the existence of Allah, had the fortitude and wisdom to reject many of the alien, silly and incompatible aspects Islam. Today we have prideless Arab/Pakistani wannabe Jihadi misfits slaughtering innocent Somalis in the name of Islam. That is what you're supporting wittingly or unwittingly when you attack me as opposed to joining my call for secularism and traditional Somali Islam.

Mario B, I'll take a chill pill if you promise to stop clinging to me like a limpet.

*Blessed;812387 wrote: I think Raamsade is mixing Islam up with christianity. Islam and the Quran encourage the seeking of knowledge and so do most wadaads.The next world is no big secret. However, there are some who confuse their geeljire Social codes with the teachings of our beautiful and that does cause much confusion and unnecessary limitation on individuals. Islam isn't that much different from Christianity although much to its credit Islam is far more rational than Christianity which depends more on silly miracles. Seeking knowledge may be encouraged in Islam but not the truth. It doesn't matter how "knowledgeable" you are if your knowledge isn't true you might as well have never learned it. True knowledge is the key here. And any inquiry into the truth is discouraged by by all organized religions because the truth will expose their little dirty secret. Like all secrets tugged under the rug for so long, there comes a time when the stench becomes unbearable. Hence, why Wadaads in general fight tooth and nail against the truth. The Theory of Evolution, a bonafide scientific theory as they ever come, is vehemently rejected by virtually all Wadaads.

Jacpher;812251 wrote: ^Everyone on this earth who believes in religion would claim to know what happens after life, minus people like you atheists. Not just Muslims, Wadaads and Somalis. So what's your point? Anyone who claims to know what happens after we die other than what we know is engaging in barefaced lying. We contribute our share to the food chain after we die. No one has ever gone to hell/heaven coming back with evidence attesting to the existence of hell/heaven. So how can these Wadaads, oftern speaking in authoritative tone, claim to know what happens after we die sans supporting evidence? I would be suspicious of an investment advisor who claims to known an investment with 300% return buttressing his claim with unassailable evidence. No body can be so certain about events that far ahead into the future forget about the so-called "afterlife." The best we can do is come up with probabilities. But Wadaads are adamant they know what happens after death often going into vivid details about life beyond the grave. That renders Wadaads as frauds unworthy of the lofty status they currently enjoy among people who seem to be getting dumber and dumber as the rest of the world warps ahead scaling new heights intellectually.

Jacpher;812242 wrote: ^What's life after death got to do with this topic? Everything. Wadaad's raison d'etre is the claim to know what happens after we die and how we can get the best deal. Why else do people lend their ears to Wadaads besides that? Their infinate wisdom and knowledge?

War is ugly and wicked. So why are we surprised when ugly and wicked war begets ugly and wicked acts like this? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the killer was seeking revenge. No one can account for human emotions and impulses. I expect the US, like all civilized nations, to prosecute this killer to the full extent of the law. What I can't fathom is the hypocritical reaction to this event. Few weeks ago, Boko Haram was rampaging through Nigeria leaving behind a bloody carnage in its wake. Hundreds of innocent people were massacred in cold blood including children, some of them burned while alive in churches for no reasons other than being Christians. And yet I don't recall any outrage from SOLers and not a word from liberal, racist and patronising Westerners like Frisk. Hardly anyone batted an eye lid. But what is the difference between the Nigerian and Afghani innocent victims? Should we not care about all human victims and condemn perps? This episode is very instructive. It tells us that many of us, consciously or subconsciously, including smarmy Western liberals like Frisk hold Europeans/Whites to a higher moral standard than the rest of humanity. How else can you explain the indifference shown towards crimes by non-Whites in contrast to the paroxyms of indignations vis-a-vis crimes by Whites? That is the story in my opinion. Not the fact that innocent people were slaughtered. Innocent people are slaughtered every day by various actors. No one sheds a tear for these poor victims unless of course the perps were Europeans/Whites.

Why are you surprised by Wadaads dissuading Muslim women from attaining self-actualizing and education? In fact, Wadaads in general, there are some exceptions of course, want all their followers women and men alike to be as beninghted and ignordant as possible. Knowledge is power; an enlightened citizen is not easy to control. Wadaads are always after control because they know their whole game, chiefly that they know what happens after we die, is based on a pack of lies. Like autocratic regimes build on lies, Wadaads of all stripes try to control information available to their followers for fear that once their followers get the truth they'll become irrelevant.

Assuming this is true, the pre-conditions are absurd and non-starter. We all know if "foreign" troops leave, Alshabaab and other spoilers will launch full-frontal assault on Villa Somalia plunging the capital into another episode of war and mayhem. Given that there is no credible military force capable of securing the capital and the rest of the country, foreign troops are the only game in town. Even if there were a capable Somali security force, the pre-conditions are still ludicrous. Alshabaab must first disarm and demobilize as a token of their sincerity. Sharia Law business is untenable as well. Somali society is based on Wadaad iyo Waranle not Wadaad iyo Wahaabi. This age-old social division has kept in check the Wadaad menace only to be undone by the social disintegration and decay courtesy of 25 years of civil war. Needless to say we need strong secular Somali government to safeguard the welfare of Somalis as a people.

This is good harbinger for the exploration works in the NFD given that there is now proven oil reserves in the Turkana region.

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;810236 wrote: One thing those faux, confused neo 'atheists' in this board have all in common is bashing Islaam every chance they get. Waxaa isweydiis ah wax aad ka baxday oo aad ku qanci weysay maxaa iskugu wareerinee. Waaba ka baxdee banaanka maad ka joogtid oo aad amaan siisid. Goorta aad garatid in qofwalbe uu xaq u leeyahay in uu taladiisa dhiibto, ka soo horjeesado talada uu rabo ku kale-na taageero, goortaas aad garan sababta keenta waxaad ku wacdey "bashing Islam." Dhibaatada qoladiina walaalaheena Musliiminta ni haaysata waxee tahay ma kari kartaan dulqaad taasna waxaad ku darsateen madaxadeeg iyo aqoondarro, labadda dhalan oo ugu xun oo dadka laga helo. Taas aa keenta xanaaqa iyo seef-laboodnimada badan. Haddaa ku dhaho Diinlaawe aan ahay, kuma caayin waxaan ahay killi aan sheegey. Laakin dad badan aa jira oo ka carooda jiritaanka Atheistka iska daa waxee qoraan ama sheegaan. Dadkaas sidee loo la xaajoodaa? Cid meeshan ku caayda diinta Islam ma jirto, cid kala jecel waxaad aaminsantahay ha ahaato Budhism, Christianity, Judiasm, Islam na ma jirto. Maxaa naga galay waxaad caabudi? Waa waxba! Sababta killi aan ani meeshan u imaadey wexee tahay in aa ka warqabo arrimaha Somalia iyo dadkeeda, la sheekeysto dad Somali ah aragtideyda na wax ka dhiibto. U ma imaan Somaliaonline in si ulakac ah dad walaaleheyga ah aan aflaggaadeydo. Haddaa diinta Islam wax ka sheego adi ha u qaadan personally, taas waa fikirgeyga.

For nuune, Waxaan waa gardarro kas iyo maag ah. War ani ka hor yaa Atheist/Diinlaawe ah oo meeshan wax ku soo qorey? Mise waxaad mooddey Boondheere in uu Atheist yahay? Ma ogi goortuu Boodheere la soo caadbaxey atheism balse sidaa wax ku ogaa Boondheere ma aha Atheist. Marka, ha na maagin ee Ilaahey ka baq ee towbad keen. Dadkaan masaakiinta ah oo habeen iyo maalin aad u gefeysid iska daa. Wa bilaa towfiiq.

Carafaat, Maxamed Dheere never presided over Xamar in the whole of post-civil war era, so son: what the heck are you on about?

^That's slaying the already slain. It doesn't take much to discredit Christianity as too absurd to be true. But much of the work has already be done by others hundreds of years ago. Mario B;802311 wrote: That is his understanding of religion and science, it's up to you to refute him or else keep the peace. :rolleyes: It is not an understanding or a mere opinion, it is about blatant lying. For example, this is an understanding/opinion: Somali wadaads should be forced to shave and their beard hair used as brillo pads (silig) by poor Somali mothers. And here is a blatant lie: Shiikh X said Y and Z when I know he didn't say those things. There is a big moral difference don't you think?

They are 85 million Ethiopians and over 500,000 Ethiopians are in the army, so killing 40 or 50 here and there will not make an iota of difference. Hundreds are born each day. The useful question is: has Alqaacida/Alshabaab gained more territories as a result of this engagement? The answer is no.

Xaaji Xunjuf;802339 wrote: ^ If they want a clan state in the capital than it cannot be a capital a capital belongs to all the people of the country. No one is gonna create a clan state in Xamar but the clans that predominate their now will and should dominate its politics in the future. So, I don't understand what the fuss is all about.