Actually Islamic cosmology, as I have said before, is decidedly geocentric. According Islamic texts the earth is flat and is enclosed by seven concentric domes. These domes are physical things not layers of "atmosphere." You can actually take a ladder and climb the inner most concentric dome. Stars are lights decorating the dome and falling stars are spears thrown at Iblis I think if I'm not mistaken. Hell even the Islamic imperative to face East when praying screams of flat earth because if Islam subscribed to round earth, what's the point of facing East? You can face West and still face Mecca. May Allah help us poor souls!

Allyourbase;991681 wrote: It really is a difficult matter sifting through the thousands of Hadiths one would find in various book. But Muslim scholars have created a system of ranking for Hadiths based on their authenticity and it is: - Sahih (the most authentic of Hadiths, this is as good as it gets and these Hadiths can never be doubted) - Hasan - Daciif - Mucalaq And others that are of unknown origins. Now all of the Hadiths that I have provided here are of the Sahih label, so their authenticity can never be doubted. Now what do you do in this case? And this is without going through the various interpretations and commentary. Even if you accept the dubious Islamic criteria for judging Hadiths as sahih or weak, nothing is said about whether or not the content of the hadith is true or not. That is what ultimately matters. Is it true the sun sets in a muddy spring as one sahih hadith narrates? Truth and sahih are two different things. Sahih merely means there is established chain of narration. But what if the person who started off the chain of narration was telling a lie or simply wrong? Islam and Muslims has no way let along desire to discern truth from falsehood. It is as if the truth doesn't matter in Islam. Only tradition and dogma. May Allah have mercy on your wretched souls! Wa bilaa towfiiq

Kulmiye, never mind Serenity she knows I'm right but won't deign to admit. A little lesson to the boys roaming SOL and far afield. A woman's attractiveness is based on 3 things: her age, her looks and her chastity. The last goes without saying because women across the world go to great lengths to appear as chaste as possible. No woman wants to be seen as "loose." It is almost instinctive and for men as well as most men see a woman who's been around as less valuable. But what I really take exception to is a man raising the kids of another man. Why would you marry a divorcee with kids, help her raise another man's kids all the while the father of the kids is living on the high hog and probably fathering more kids. Why would any self-respecting do that? In the animal kingdom male interlopers kill of the offspring of the previous male. In fact, some hypothesis monogamy arouse precisely so as to protect offspring from potential murder. Now, I'm not in the least bit promoting that we go around killing little babies just don't marry divorcee with kids. I can understand a widow although I would still be averse to marrying the left overs another man. It is all about genetic legacy. You can best ensure your genetic legacy by getting hitched to young, attractive (because attractive and young women bear healthy kids) and vestal dame.

mudan shaxshaxley;986169 wrote: What is wrong with them? They have no manners or akhlaaq. Since when did women like men with manners or akhlaaq? Women like jerks with loutish behavior that's why they're almost universally attracted to the "bad boys." Stop fronting girl.

People like Dr. Ken are textbook example of the price religious dogma exacts on the human intellect. Even when confronted with unassailable arguments and evidence, rather do what most rational people would do and consider revising his previous positions, he digs in further. That is what dogma does, it forces you to stick to a position no matter what your head or heart tells you.

No self-respecting man should settle for used goods especially when there are so many women that have never been broken into. And why would you raise another man's kids? That's committing genetic suicide. Besides, even if you think you found an exceptional divorcee, nearly impossible but I'll entertain the idea for argument's sake, you'll have untrain all the bad habits her previous owner taught her. Maxaa ku dhacay ragannimodii raga Somalida lagu yaqaaney?

There is a link between poverty and crime, so it's plausible that there is a link between unemployment and terrorism. But it would be dangerous to think unemployment is a magic wand that can explain away all terrorism. The Tamil Tigers, who were the first to use suicide bombings, engaged terrorism for political reasons. Islamic groups do so largely for religious and political reasons.

Lool... I couldn't stop laughing when I saw it. The sheer audacity it takes to get in front of the whole world, make up a fake deaf sign language, and think you can get away with it is something to behold. I give the fella some credit for his boldness.

It is -25c with the windchill here in Eastern Ontario but I'm unfazed by it. I kind of like it actually, it makes you feel alive and awake in the morning. Better than a cup of coffee.

Safferz, alas my child your ability to discern my ideas is as bad as your ability to discern different SOL characters. It is impossible for any SOLer to write like I not only because I'm exceedingly good writer, that goes without saying, but also because I have unique style of writing all of my own. But I see Hobbessian Brute is a fallen comrade; I will salute him when I uncork the old wine bottle tonight. I'm an immigrant myself so it would be hypocritical of me to be against immigration; FYI I'm allergic to hypocrisy. And there is no such thing as Islamophobia. Phobia entails irrational fear but there is nothing irrational about the fear of Islamic extremism. It is real, deadly and strikes without warning. To me a freethinker is someone who can take a position without worrying how others will perceive him/her. I'm not beholden to any ideology or political camps. I supported the US invasion of Afghanistan but dead set against the invasion of Iraq. I support Hezbollah's war against Israel but against Hamas's mafia-like coup and stewardship of Gaza. I support Iraq against the West. See how that works? I make decision based entirely on the circumstance. So if you think I can be pigeonholed that easily, think again buttercup.

Guleed ali, spare your ducas for the unfortunate Somalis in Bari and along the Shabeele river who are today shivering cold, hungry, tired, in grieve and worried what they're gonna feed their kids tomorrow all because Allah wanted to display his benevolence to mankind by subjecting them to typhoons and floods. Those people need your ducas, not I. BTW, it is DUCA in your mother tongue. You are on a Somali site with a Somali name and yet you can't write basic Somali. thefuturenow, leave Ayaan Hirsi alone waryaa or you and I will have to duke it out the old fashioned. Walaahi I love Ayaan Hirsi! Have you seen her regal cheeks? How about those loving eyes? And that coy yet feminine smile? The demure yet confident disposition, ah! The woman is walking, talking, breathing female sexiness. Wallee hadeey single ahaan leheed waaba iska guursan lahaa. Safferz, no I am not nor have I ever been a Hobbesian Brute. I don't even subscribe to much of the ideas of Thomas Hobbes. If you mean a character here on SOL then nope, there is only one Raamsade. I must say, before I joined SOL I recall only one avowed freethinker (johny boy). Then there was me and others I inspired thanks to my superlative wisdom, charm and erudition.

This is a circus! Even the Iron Sheik is miffed with Rob Ford.

guleed_ali;986092 wrote: I'm still looking for the discrimination laws that protect Muslims. Laws against discrimination on the following grounds: race, religion, place of origin, etc. All benefit muslims. The sad irony is that there are no comparable laws in any Islamic country. And yet countless hours and gallons of ink are wasted on lamenting discrimination against Muslims in the West. How about we spend half of the time and energy on critiquing the discrimination against Muslims (Shias, Ahmidiyas, Ismailis, Sufis, etc) and non-Muslims in the Islamic countries. At least those transgressions are a matter of life and death not a matter of quality of life as in the West. guleed_ali;986092 wrote: You know the ones that don't screen my name for job with security clearance, the ones that are comfortable with me not shaking hands with female interviewers, the ones that don't question how often I go to the Middle East or Somali etc. But you know why that is; your brothers in Islam have decided to wage an all-out war against the West using all means including hiding among civilians. So if you're under extra scrutiny, blame your fellow Muslims. I have plenty of relatives who go to Somalia often, no body questions let alone notices them. Unless you fit the profile, young Somalis going to Somalia post-Alshabaab era, then you got nothing to fret about. guleed_ali;986092 wrote: Once you take me for who I am which a Muslim first and a (fill in nationality here) second that's when I'll be grateful. The people I fled don't represent Islam and the people I fled to also don't represent Islam. No matter where I am, I know that I'm a slave to Allah first. So quit putting people on a pedestal and recognize that the "right way" to do things is to follow the words of Allah and the message of his beloved Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم). But you are not and CAN NOT be Muslim first in the 21st century. You can't even do your Hajj by proclaiming "I am Muslim First," at the airport, no one will let you in. So be humble and take other people's perspectives into consideration. You can live your life as Muslim First as long as you understand others don't agree with that. And sorry but Islam is as Muslims do. There is no other Islam. What you see is what you get. The other Islam is mythical, theoretical Islam but such Islam doesn't impact the real world. Islam as practiced by Muslims is the only real Islam. Theoretical Islam accessible by means of esoteric knowledge might as well have never existed or written. Who cares what's in the Quran or how the Prophet lived if no body follows it? So yaa aakhi, open your eyes (brain) and take note that there is no Allah. And if there is Allah, He should first stop tormenting poor people with Cyclones and Typhoons; there is too much gratuitous suffering in this world against the existence of caring God. So join me in the fight against medievalism, obscurantism, insanity, daftness, drinking urine tainted camel-milk, Brittany Spears, the World Cup, Mickey Mouse (there was a fatwa against Mickey Mouse) and all that is good in this world.

Khayr;986079 wrote: Raam, You are being hypocritical by saying that the Hijab (a muslim value) can be questioned and attacked while muslim migrants can't question any demo-liberal, drone loving - values! Cut the B/S! Yaa aakhi, I don't know what you mean by "drone loving," but I am not against anyone questioning the West. By all means, go ahead and knock yourself out. That doesn't obscure the eminent fact that one can't question the Hijab or any aspect of the Islam in a Muslim majority country without risking death or some kind of violence. So as long as that prevailing truth in the Islamic world persists, your protestations against the West ring hollow. And Moses almost certainly never existed. If he did, he was most likely an Egyptian, not an Israelite because there is a pharaoh bearing similar name called Thutmosis. The whole Jewish captivity tale also never happened. The Egyptians never wrote about it. No one else in the Mediterranean wrote about it. So stop citing fairy tales in the a thread trying to debunk prejudice and half-truths.

guleed_ali;985903 wrote: Both Groups ain't down with Islam so one group rejects it totally and the other wants to change it up "to fit" with today's world (the latter being the far more dangerous one IMHO). Sometimes you need to cut through all the rhetoric and break it down in simple everyday English! And yet they still welcomed your ungrateful **** even though you didn't speak like them, you didn't dress like them, you didn't look like them, you didn't share their values and you certainly didn't share a faith with them. You or your parents came to the West with virtually nothing but you were still welcomed with open arms. The day you landed in the West, you promised to be treated as a HUMAN BEING equal before the law like everybody else. What's more, many laws were drafted to protect you from discrimination. The West didn't have to take your whining **** in, they could've taken thousands of other more grateful folks that shared values closer to those of the West. I think it is high noon that you show some gratitude. Because if you are not grateful then be honest enough and give your passport to the thousands of Somalis who cherish in the seas every year trying to get into the West. Regarding the Hijab, I think the so-called Hijab revival is the fulcrum of much darker force - Wahabism or Salafism. There is no denying that the ascent of Wahabist ideals accompanied the donning of Hjiab. You can't decouple the Hijab and Wahabism in my opinion. If the issue of the Hijab was merely one of spiritual re-awakening among Muslim women and all that entailed was a lot of happy Muslim women wearing their pretty Hijabs, holding hands, waving v-signs, laughing and smiling interspersed with joyous shouts of "all you need is love," I can assure no body care. If anything, the world would be captivated by this new movement and the Islamic world would've won millions of new converts. But that is not what has transpired. Instead the rise of Hijab politics was accompanied by rise of suicide bombings, religious extremism and hatred, violence in the name of Allah, death threats, extremist groups espousing and harboring terrorism and terrorists, etc. In the face of this unassailable reality, questioning the Hijab business is perfectly legitimate.