Excellent idea for constructive discussion. GD and a few other TFG supporters have exsausted this point in an attempt to legitimize the current attempt by the ethopians to colonizing somalia by installing the subservaint TFG. Irrespective of the issue involved, in the end it can only be truly settled by somali's, if help can be sort from a sincere and informed outside mediator with no interest in somalia's domestic politics then great. But in the end somali's will have to tackle issues such as looted properties crimes perpetrated against groups of people, etc etc in a respectfull and courages way. Somali's dont need leaders such as Geedi and A/Y who have displayed so far a distinct lack of vision, courage and a will to sacrifice for the beterment of somalia. Just look at the boastfull assertains made today by Geedi after ethopian troops were shelling and destroying the city of mogadisho. It was disgusting and disgraceful

I must point out I don't particularly think the article is a true reflection of the current state of affairs in Somali, however the points raised below I think are the best way forward beyond this Current TFG. A lot of contributors to the politics section who are in favour of the TFG have asked what will happen if the TFG is defeated disbanded, a return to Chaos looting and warlord fiefdoms? as a pretext to legitimise the colonisation and foreign interference that is currently destroying any hope or future for Somali's in Somalia. If I were to advise the international community, Mr. Ali Mahdi and his team, the TFG, UIC and other opposition groups I would have asked them to ponder on the following principles / points for I believe these recommendations could help foster genuine reconciliation and peace culture in Somalia, . 1) That Ethiopia withdraws its troops / agents from Somalia fully and immediately – and in a verifiable manner; 2) That the TFG continues to govern Somalia until at the end of its mandate on August 2009; 3) That the Union of Islamic Courts and other opposition groups renounce the use of violence against the TFG and transform themselves as political parties; 4) That the TFG renounces the use of force to fight, intimidate and prosecute the opposition groups and pledge to accept them as legitimate national stake holders; 5) Free and fair national election for Somalia; election managed and monitored by the UN and held at the end of the TFG mandate in 2009; (Let the people decide who should run their affairs; the Somali people waited too long; and this is not too much to ask); 6) A government of National Unity should be created; the form and the composition of this lean caretaker administration should be determined by the Reconciliation Committee; this government could be an augmentation of the TFG – incorporating in its ranks - senior Islamists, dissident TFG MPs and independent Somali technocrats- the Cabinet should not exceed more than a dozen Ministers; 7) Independent Reconciliation Commission must be created for Somalia – a Commission whose responsibility is to undertake a un-politicized national healing process; 8) Mutual amnesty should be offered to all combatants who took part the wars between the TFG and its opposition; 9) Warlords must not be allowed to regain their influences; 10) The TFG must not equate Political Islam with terrorism and it should allow Somalis who want Islam to shine in their country the deserved political space; I think the points raised by the articles author here as a guide to reconciling and saving the political situation is pretty good. However I don't imagine now in the midst of the devastation and indiscriminate killings of civilians, the targeting of a particular clan and its sub clan will be forgotten easily, perhaps render point 9 impossible to truly reconcile. However this sounds like a solution. The question is there any will in the so called International community to put up a diplomatic fight to out manoveore the US-Ethopian led efforts in our failed state?

He and his (one time government come Gang)had their chance and the potential to win over the population but failed. This would have been a big enough inditment, their collective refusal to act sincerely in reconciling the people by power-sharing with the UIC, and allowing ethopia and US both with the own respective and destructive agenda's to intervine so decisively in Somalia means that he should in the future face inditments for war crimes.

Again i think its quite striking that yet another non-somali observer/analysist/group/organization (which doesnt seem to be tainted with any agenda of its own) has reach a conclusion so strikingly different to that being given and protrayed by people who are ultimately supposed to be "the representatives of somalis" the TFG. Why is this so? However this individuals comment on the current destruction being reaked upon somalia and its people as a good job, just goes to highlight th level of self interest that is involved in securing the government and the financial incentives under pinning this.

Thanks for the Post, looks interesting.

Those who contribute such misinforming articles should be ashamed of themselves.

The don't read anything of critique against the TFG. Thats the problem i have reading with sincerity, most if not all the thoughts and contributions posted on SOL(or as is often the case, cut & paste articles) in favour of this TFG. Whilst the Ethopian Tanks {yesterday and today}are pounding Mogadisho indiscriminately for fear of being trapped in a single area, we have people here describing ths as a security measures. Even for the most fevervant supporter of this UN Recognised Government (Gang by action in my opnion) surely the must be a point where the level of death and destruction reaked upon mogadisho and its people, & the probable tribal hatred and suspision that has beens tirred (as evident on this board) will far out weigh any benefits that would be reaped from this "government".

anyway somalis deserve what they get if u ask me, and what befalls them is Punishment from Allah swt for their crimes and oppression against each other and against the innocents weak, as Quran says whatever befalls u is due to what your own hands have committed. The chicken has come home to roost. I couldn't agree more with you. For a long time now Somali's have been committing atrocities against each other. Their are some on the site who like propagating that this has only been a phenomena in the south, which is inaccurate and unfair. Somali's of all regions and clans have the same social fabric, and as a result the same tendencies for violence cased on clan supremacy. Apart from the violence, the general hatred also is something that has been the downfall of Somali's. That's why Somali's lost a big chance when the UIC were ousted militarily. The still have a chance to look at the success of the UIC, as evidenced by the 6 month stint in control of south Somalia, and move to try to disable the very many elements of our culture that or so Deviantly incompatible with the requirements indeed expectations of what a Muslim should be and how Muslims (as Somali's are) should behave towards each other. The needs to be a realisation (when I say this, I mean attempt by the so called intellectuals and elders to move away from the clan as a reference point in all domestic affairs) otherwise the Somali people will either die out or slowly fade away into the Diaspora. But this punishment aside, because clearly it is exactly this (the oppression from ethopia/americans & Ethiopian stooges) in this current conflict, Somalis who chose to fight against the ethopians have the right, irrespective of what descriptions they are labelled with.

Indeed The somali people need more Neighbours like Eriteria.

Any TFG enthusiasts care to comment on the article? Its always interesting to note that impartial observations made by non-somali' always end up with teh same analysis, that is a far more accurate depicition of what is going on. Somali was left to its own for 16 years by the so called international community. Apart from NGO's some scandnavian countries, there was a total media blankout.

Did he actually say that? and get away with it! lol man, granted he is a prolific poster so maybe a lot of people didnt see that because that quite a racisit remark to get away with? I can apologies if the words can be attributed to Xiin, and sincerely so as this case may be. Mistaken identity. Notice that i checked first to see if you said that! That said, thats a comment if not breaking the rules on here surely, is bending the rules. Now! GD please address the second part of my last post. Do you believe its acceptible to refer to a group of people (and its unbecoming of you to try to use technicalities such as Political or individuals as this hasnt been the case) as looters, this is a phrases that you have constantly used and quite loosely without challange to date. I await your response!

Something interest to read and perhaps shades further light to teh extent to which the US is prepared to get involved in securing East Africa in its on going "war of terror" Yesterday, Mr Muite said that the contents of the Bill, which Justice and Constitutional Affairs minister Martha Karua said was under discussion, were not acceptable. “The Bill nullifies the rule of law such as the presumption that one is innocent until proved guilty,” he said. The proposals to give powers to the Internal Security minister to declare an individual or an organisation a terrorist was also likely to be abused. “It gives the minister, in this case Mr Michuki, the powers to declare any individual or any organisation a terrorist,” Mr Muite said. He blamed the actions of President George Bush’s administration for the rising terrorism in the world and said the US should pay for its actions. “Nobody supports terrorism, but what the United States is trying to do is to relocate the theatre of action in the war on terrorism as far as possible away from the US. “And it has escalated because of the right wing Bush policies such as the invasion of Iraq,” he said This is one of the reasons why organisations such as IGAD & the UN in its duel capicity these days as a warmongering machine and a aid agency continue to be devasting tools for any chance of peace and stability in Somalia and the horn of africa in general. When the Agenda is set and based upon such policies that by-pass and abuses every basic human rights laws to achieve "a western style goverment" then there is little hope for progress. The EU continues, not unlike the lead up to teh war in Iraq to be a discenting voice, but nothing more. At least thats better than nothing.

Dont back away sxb from your statement, arent the militia belonging to a certain tribe? exported, ignorant, nomadic brought by such & such's clan? Am not looking for a campaign against u so be kool, continue in your stance, u seem to have cart blanche anyway. What am seeking to know is making a statement such as that qouted acceptible? Never mind the wholesale references to people as looters and so on and so forth. The qouted line seems bad enough to me, or am i being to sensitive?

lol tell me about it. I waited patiently to here what he had to say. And boom, i could have been watching a press release by a junior officer at the white-house on a scripted document, but then he performed even worse getting upset when the well spoken foriegn affairs minister of the UIC described him as an as ethopian informer. That a side i think its not quite supprising to see that the warlord president A/Y has alligned himself with a parrot for an advisor. A Yes man it would seem. He had no words for the dead and fleeing somali's of mogadisho, no word on any emergency relief for the 100,000's of people outside the capital. Instead he kept ramballing on about international terrorists, and how noble the kenyan and ethopian governments where for maintaining somalis terrtorial integrity? Very disappointing but not at all supprising.

"they are no inhabitants but exported, ignorant, nomadic militias who have been brought there by Abdiqasim's clan". Did he actually say that? and get away with it! lol man, granted he is a prolific poster so maybe a lot of people didnt see that because that quite a racisit remark to get away with? Admin, MMA what's the rule on the generalization of a certain populations on s.o.l? Because GD seems to have made this trait a trade mark. Can i get away with making similar generalizations? Could i label all TFG Fans as Ignorant qaabil minded ethopian stooges as well? or would i be out of order?

Just look at the title. Can ou really describe what is currently (on-going, so i dont see how the word win can be used) can be described as a revolution? My word of advise to anyone contributing ton the politic's section. Be objective and furnish as with facts or consensus.Opinons are not getting us any where.

Neutrality is a false position when people are dying on a mass scale, a large urban error is being indiscriminately bombed at the hands of the "government", ethopian soliders as a result of the on-going "war of terror". There is a bigger picture to observe here. In house issues that are the somali inter-clan warfare could and should have been put to one-side when faced with what is occuring now. The late Union of islamic courts as imperfect as they were, offered a far better solution that what is currently going on, as evidenced by every international group failing the US & Ethopia & TFG for obvious reasons respectively. To simply label the efforts as a land grab exercise and oppression of the south, is unfair to say the least, but hey your entitled to your positions and your opnions. Just how anyone can try to pas off whats happened since the turn of year as anything but a total catastrophy for somali's now and for any future reconciliation process is either being blinded by mis-information, or not wanting to get to grips with the facts. And they are to date: Approx 320,000 Mogadisgho residents forcibly removed to the outskirts of teh capital over 1000+ civilian deaths and counting (exact number unknown) I lost count of how many have been injured, wounded, displaced etc etc. How can their be any serious expectation of anything coming close to true reconciliation being achieved under these circumstances? Or are we going to be happy with the circle continuing, with this new element of foriegn invasion acting as a catalyst for future distablization and sustained conflicts. The are existing examples in the world: Iraq Afganistan More powerfull international forces have been sent there, both on false pretenses, and the insuing effort to secure some semblence of peace without an inclusive peace process, as is the case in somalia have resulted in failed states. Or should we just continue to view the conflict through the eyes of who's successes or failers occure for who's respective clans? Because essentially thats what the main bulk of the anaylsis, if thats what you can call some of the contributions on here, has mainly been about.

Che I guess it would be easier to agree to disagree right? Just a simple question though for you. You say that the courts cannot be revived again. Perhaps that’s true allahu yaclam. But give that an estimated 320,000 people have fled Mogadishu. An unverified number of Innocent civilians killed with the corpses left to rot in the streets because of the ongoing aggression of the Ethiopian soldiers. A further 200 reportedly killed in the last 2 or 3 days of fighting. Don’t you dream of having they (UIC) back? I can wager you that the residents of the Capital do. Remember, the peace and stability (though not perfect), the law and order. All shattered, and the pretences of suggesting, as many contributors to this forum have tried to in recent days, that this TFG (which is toothless less face it without Ethiopia & America)is actively trying to bring stability and re-establish a nation is shameful and brazoningly disrespectful to most peoples intelligence and displays a willful lack of sensitivity to the dead, may Allah have mercy on them Somalia and Somali’s in Mogadishu have become victim’s of the on going American "war of terror" via Ethiopia. They will have no recourse to justice, no representation. Just as many victims in Iraq and over the history can evidence. As clearly evidenced on this forum, Somali’s remain the same. The so called educated amongst all of us (am including myself) cambridge/Havard, the elitists, and the normal jo-average remain either unwilling to face logic. Why because Somali’s remain as tribalistic as ever. The only potential solution to the ongoing problems Somali’s face will be a genuine effort to try to establish some reconciliation process. This TFG has long ago ruled itself out in that respect, so the fighting will most likely continue until the number of deaths cannot be counted anymore. Some will not be bothered and continue posting on here to defend this Organization with fake causes such as looted properties (a legitimate grievance, contradicted by championing the indiscriminate shelling of all areas of the capital) as an example.

That’s contradictory statements Che & Juije. This TFG is the exact reason that we should be now "focusing" against a common enemy Ethiopia. So tell me now what if the Americans loosen the grip on the handles dictating the agenda in east Africa, the AU & UN success full manage to get Ethiopian troops out of Somalia. What then? Before even with the sabre rattling from both sides, the TFG maintained and pushed the "we are the government line" and refused to negotiate with any other bodies or organisations. What would happen if and when the Ethiopians withdraw the majority of their troops to the borders or border towns and the world turns a blind eye to the South and especially Mogadishu? Anarchy! No Reconciliation and a US Preferred styled peace/immobilisation, as seen in Iraq Afghanistan. I would argue that Somalia has been physically plunged back 17 years to the height of the destruction in the south, and the same tendencies cheered upon will lead the largely peaceful autonomous regions in the north east and west Somalia into the same fate.

a government by the warlords for the warlords? perhaps i would also add blessed by the "war on terror" P.s i was out of boredom reading I.M Lewis's book (or a Chapter of it to be more precies)on the history of Somali people. I book i bought yonks ago at a meeting arranged by somali's and attended by the author. Its incredible how he accurately depictes the dynamics behind the conflicts its actors and victins a& wilfull neglegt of the south of somalia by the Un(S) or imcompetence when indeed they have acted in the last 2 decades. I think the phrase i've quoted by Me is very apt sadly.

I admire SL for exactly that, keeping the peace and building a government.

^^^ The Islamic Courts ^^^ The article address it as such, so to does all international and national media. Yet you come in jingoistically as usual with your slogans without staying on point and addressing the article or topic in hand. It's something that you've too often managed to get away with on here. p.s the article does not mention anything positive about the TFG or its future in somalia!

D/P

How very true Peace Now On the whole and general speaking no, there are not Many normal people in the somali political scene. Although i would be doing Sheik Sheirf of the UIC i great Dis-service if i didnt mention him as an exception to this rule. He has been an outstanding example of presention articulation and integrity. I saw an interview on Al Jazeera (the english Channel) discussing the recent conflict what the UIC stand point is etc etc and he was very impressive mashallah. Him a side am afriad the grime reality is there arent many more......................well more that am aware off anyway!

http://www.hiiraan.com/op2/2007/apr/ethiopia_s_invasion_of_somalia.aspx I dont agree with some all of this analysis, but again yet another political anaylsist of some credibility and an intimate working knowledge of somalia, more so i'd say than the vast majority of the posters and readers on here concludes that the TFG is a doomed organization failing ethopian and American support. Feel free to read and post your thoughts all and sundry contributors to SOL's own Information War