Mythical stories passed as historical facts. :cool:

^^YUP

Waxaan murugu waaye. Rag dhulkooda ka heesto isku dagaalaya, luuq aan leh iyo kan anaa leh. Waxaad fara ku heesiin ma jidho ee dib iskugu laabta.

First get this: On the political level , there are three components in the current Somali divide in my mind. 1- TFG and its supporters--- i.e. Puntland and some parts of the south. 2- Courts and its supporters 3- Secessionists and those who support it (yes I believe in a holistic approach instead of let-the-south-get-its-acts-together-first nonsense) Xiin...On your first point, the TFG doesn't enjoy the support of the average Puntlander. But I give you the Puntland elite on the other hand has put all their eggs in one basket by endorsing the TFG, something the average Puntlander niether cares for nor understands. Puntlanders have more immediate concerns of deteriorating security, inflation, corruption and LA debacle. No one could definitively argue if the average person in the part of Somalia supports the mandate and the actions of TFG. Like the rest of the Somali people, Puntlanders are simply passive audience to this sad saga. Please do inform me and correct me if there are any prominent traditional leaders, Culimada, Ganasatada, academics, and former politicians that vigoriously and unequivocally promote the TFG agenda. And on your second point, the supporters of the courts (and I'm talking about the average perosn that sided with courts instead the warlords during 06 war) simply want peace. Majority were hardly interested in settling scores,or perpuating the civil war. And as for the political and military wings of the courts, these are divided into three entities first being moderates, clan oppurnists, and the Al-Shabaab. The moderates are willing to sit with any entity that's sincerely interested bringing peace to Somalia. The clan oppurtunists on the other hand are simply interested in keeping the ill-gotten wealth that they accumulated over the years.And they will throw their support behind whoever they believe would allow them to keep that Xaraan. The Al-Shabaab who were the muscle of the courts are more troublesome, and I give you harder to reason with since their fight and inspiration go beyond the Somali conflict. Ceyrow made a mistake by announcing the Somali war as part of global Jihad. Of course the question here out of these who will be willing to sit down the TFG, the answer is none of them. And this is for good reason since the Ethiopia is occupying Somalia, and the so called Somali goverment barely does anything without the approval of Gen Gabre. This entity must enjoy a degree of independence before it could think about sitting the oppisition. The oppisition might as well passed them, and directly deal with the leadership of the occupying force. And for the secessionists, I agree with you. There are/will be part of equation. For Somalia to enjoy, they too must be at the bargaining table.Whether they like or not, their future is tied to Xamar,and the "south must its problems" will hardly get anywhere. Somalis have grievances against each other--some grievances go back to the inception of the republic itself. They do have greivances against each other, no question about that. But here is few facts we must first consider . There is no major conflicts along tribal lines as of today. If there are any skirmishes, it is usually intra-tribal. It is never between the four major tribes in the country. The civil have taught few things to every Somali tribe. For instance, my family have lived in Beled Weyne for over 70 yrs. It is no secret Beled Weyne saw its shares of horrors in the early 90s where thousands of Somalis from D-block specially OGs were murdered or ethnically cleansed. Karma being the B*tch it is, those who murdered their brothers were given any equally horrendous treatment by Aidid and his men. The major sublcan in Hiiraan understood it was their the best interest to live in peace with their neighbors, and to welcome back their brothers. Now Beledweyne is vibrant town where all of tribes live together peacefully. And my family still have properties and relatives there. Our properties are returned to us,and my relatives live without of being killed or raped simply there are ethnically Puntlanders. This is something that's hardly unique to Beledweyne. Another interesting fact to consider is economic factor.People understand if they need to prosper they must be able to move freely. My family members on so many occasion travel from Galkayo to Beledweyne. No asks them what group they belong or where they are coming from. If they face any danger, it is from usaul bandits. The people in Somalia have moved, and that doesn't they don't want past grievances to addressed, but they have realised they need each other whether they like or not. It is ones in the diasporo who are still bitter about their experiences from the past conflicts or are bent on exploitating their people are perpuate the idea that Somalis can't reconcile and move forward. If you insist though I despise it primarily because it gave (yes it’s policies did) Ethiopia a political and military advantage she never dreamt to have. The TFG for one don't have the credibility nor enjoy the support of people to bring any meanigful solution. They are also not genuine about the call for reconcialation. Just listen to Yeey interviews and you would know why they aren't interested in peace. They are just interested in being the top dog, and eliminating all oppisition parties. They are not also independent enough meaning it is Ethiopia that's in the driver seat. Ethiopia wants Somalia the way it is, divided, marginilized and poor. I understand is doing what any country in her position would have done, but I don't how letigimazing her actions and encouring her stooges would bring any solution. It is afterall interested in keeping the status quo. Why would she risk loosing that advantage by allowing Somalis to mend their problems. I'm agianst the TFG exactly cuz there is no solution as long as they are in power. If there is, please let's hear. LooooooooL@Ayoub...I'm young man whose simplistic views don't appreciate the complexity of the Somali conflicts. Of course, I'm also being dishonest about not being tribalistic. What can I say, I know nothing.

You are taking the fun out of this, but aight. Nabad Galyo.

Originally posted by Baashi: We don't wanna go down that route again Che, do we? I guess no. Let it be friend. I'm not really sure what you are talking about, but if you wanna me to let you off hook, then I'm out.

Baashi--Very pitiful for grown man to resort to name-calling. Ghabdhahaa la ficiil tamayse bax kulaabo---wait ignore that, I didn't mean to insult the sisters, my apologies ladies! Xiin...For sake of clarity, what does the TFG represents to you as entity and as it regards to the current conlfict. It is my contention that TFG can't exist without the Ethiopian muscle. And it is no secret the TFG only answers the wishes of Mr Zenawi and hardly to the need of the larger public.

Xiin...It seems to me some here and to lesser extent you want to give Yeey and his warlord goverment a way out so they could save some face. It also seems to me a rather naive thing to believe that TFG would actually sit with the oppisition so it could bring Somalia into the lasting peace. How could the very entity filled with the men that held Somalia hostage for the last seventeen years,and most whom are beholden to Ethiopia would actually lay the groundwork for any genuine reconcialation. There are three things that makes the TFG unlikely patner in any viable negotiations. 1.Majority of the TFG represent their clan only in name,and hardly represent their people's interest. 2.Ethiopia wants to be at the front and centre of any process. It is unlikely that TFG could make any independent decisions. One has to have control over their own affairs before they could bargain with anyone. 3. There is no venue to hold any such talks as Ethoipia has grip on Somalia from Hargeysa to Baydhabo. And before, you start talking the serious divisions within us and the Qabiil grievances, I do get that very well. I have been kicked out my home by USC, and there is no love lost between and the misguided USC rebels. That said, I'm not going to hold on the past and ignore the grave danger that faces us today. I believe it is my absolute interest to support my brothers in Mogadisho,and to do everything humanly possible to kick the Ethios. In my view, it is more dangerous to entertain th idea of negotiating with Zenawi than it is to make peace with Mogadisho and join in the fight. Nothing could come out of sitting the sidelines, and watch Mogadisho burn. They were plenty leaders from every region that can and motivate their to abondon warlords and joined unified effort.

As long as it works for some people, all the best.

A solemn picture! web page

^Fair enough, Mr me, I would like to see Somalia free of Ethio and with vailable state that works for its people. I will be more than willing to sit with anyone that shares that goal, and talk our diffirences while keeping our eyes on the goal.

Originally posted by Baashi: Finally it comes no surprise to all who read your cantrabaqash with impartial glasses that you are ridiculing the losses of lives and properties the innocent civilians of Kismayo and Las Ano have sustained at the hands of militia. So much of I’m the only true and sincere Muslim on the board. Your little jibes aside, Mr Baashi your call for reconcialation would carry more wiegh if you were actually honest with yourself and by extention with the rest of us. I like said to Xiin, it is not what you said that people are perplexed about, it is what you don't say. You would have liked us to believe you are somehow detached, have impartial few of things, and neutral to the warring factions in the former republic. And then you go around and make disparaging remarks about an entire group whom by your admission view as the ones that raped and brutilized your beloved Kismayo. Here is where gets interesting with you duqa. Instead acknowleding your personal grievances against " the "mauruading milities" from Caabudwaaq, you resort to name calling while calling for Somalis to iron under Geed Qurac. I know you are just one individual,but tribe constitute individuals, so face your personal demons, and engage the boys that control Kismayo rather than belitting them. And finally mind you, Somalis today are victims of circumstances. Xiin.....You have lost faith my friend. There will be no reconcialation so long as Ethiopian boots are in our cities, and towns. I appreciate the severity of the Somali civil strife,but engaging with the TFG, an entity that makes no decision without first running it by Gen Gabre is futile to say the least. Though despite our serious divisions,and troubles, I do believe Somalis could overcome their disunity and fought for common goal. And this is where great men have to rise to the occassion. Obviously, none seem to be the horizon now, but throwing in the towel, and letting TFG letigimize the Ethio occupation is hardly the way to resolve our diffirences.

Anigu maxaa iga maqan aan u ciishooda? Hadaa wax kaa maqneen Markaykan maadan fadhisay. Think about that for sec before you open your mouth again! Habeen Wanaagsan, ana waan sii caraabayaa

Horn..Adeer waxma dhaantide na qaleey Xiin....I admit my shortcomings/mistakes Saaxib...Many here don't, and they speak of reconciling. Now try reasoning with dad 24hrs isla saxsan.

I find this type of insinuation of clannish tilt pitifully weak, You condemn my clanish insinuations,and then seek to defend Baashi's outright insults against an entire group of people. That's twisted logic And before you ask me to focus on Baashi's orginal point (reconcialation). I'm afraid that's lost in the fog of contempt that he has for some people. And sincere apologies to the Mods! Kashafa...Understood!

Xiin..How about we allow him to make his case. And it is not so much what he says, it is what he doesn't say. It would be interesting how explains Ilkoyar comment. If one were to use the word "Dhaba-yaco" to describe the Puntland boys in Xamer, the admin would have been down on our throats. And Xiin, I'm all for reconcialation if only the participants are sincere about settling their diffirences.

^^Whatever Xiin...I'm always against dadka ismahadiya these include yeey supporters and sympithizers, secessionists,Qabiil Jihadists, and "I own this city/town" crazies. You came close to being in dis group when courts came in miles of Galkacayo. And could stop defending your boy. Waad ku daba dhimatay P.S. Isn't ***** suppose to be offensive. [ January 30, 2008, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

LoooooooooL@Kashafa...that was an excellent smackdown. Kashafa...One question though, I thought Somalinimo represented another form of tribalism to you or did I read you wrong.

^And maybe Sophist if he is willing to come back the politic section!

Dahia...I did read the article...UCLA, blah blah blah, her brother in Somaliland...blah blah blah

^Her chest is an archeological site in my view. I need to study it, and take my time with it since this particular discipline can be time consuming.

This is for those that have indepth knowledge of the Somali goverment( Past) and Somaliland since it is the only entity in Somalia that could be considered an actual goverment. Are there any legislative laws that set guidelines or build the framework for administrative agencies to create administrative laws. Administrative laws governs the activities of the agencies of the goverment, everything from adjudication, enforcement, and rulemaking. And are these laws subject to judicial review, or do they fall outside the scope of the courts. P.S. I know this is loaded. Maybe Oodweyne could take shot at it.

Redsea...Don't start with me Aw, and welcome back.

Lazy...Esto es una casa de nuez,Quiero quedarse sano!

LooL@Dahia, wat am I Horta?