Yup, we need to detribalise first and foremost. There is no such thing as clan. Its a fiction. There is only Somalia and Somalism

Also let's not forget Riyoole and Bagdad Bob!

Finally. I've been waiting for this.

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^ You are getting scared the Lindhen Group of companies that is the parent company of Africa Oil is no joke. Though I like the way you drop names. Puntland had oil, secessionist have Riyaale. Small Correction: its the Lundin family that are the owners/backers of Africa Oil. The Lundins are serious players which have had a special interest for Somalia since ages (both Puntland and Somaliland actually) but they've sticked with Puntland since its under the auspices of the TFG and the best option in terms of the legal details that will sprout up along with the first oil-showers.

Addis-Ababa, does not have a clean and safe or secure beaches, kiddo. Heres an image of a "Somaliland beach": http://bit.ly/aDKaE6 A pristine, fairtytale:ish beach indeed. Ofcourse the adventure-thirsting cadaan folks need to be flanked by the complimentary security guards but hey - its a secure beach. Personally I think these beaches and "niche resorts" mr. Oodweyne is speaking of are more likely to become marketing paraphernalia for anti-nuclear power activists. The only adventure taking place on the beaches of Berbera is the one you make up in your own mind (daydreaming yourself to an action-filled novelty beach of sort). But then again Somaliland is not a stranger to the concept of daydreaming

First I'd like to commend mr. Norfsky for a great thread, hopefully there will be fruitful and entertaining discussion on a gentlemanly level. Speaking of which i'd like to warn the very bright mr. Hales that there are certain eloquent nutcases amongst us that have succumbed to using the logical fallacy of "Arguments Ad Hominem" as their main weapon-of-choice when engaging in the noble art of debating. This great error is largely to do with the "connivance" of certain interesting parties here on SOL, to whom the existance of a court jester is of utmost importance and invertedly, of zero-zilch-importance as far as serious debating is concerned.

Oodweyne haven't you heard? Brevity is the soul of wit. Said by some William something ages ago. Since you mainly produce nothing but fictional short stories and poetry (albeit of the rather boring type) I thought you should take note, till next time. You really didn't need to stick to the Israel-analogy for that long but since you obviously felt that it was worthy of that riotious reply of yours heres a bit more to up your ispirito; you see if i'm not mistaken the brits where what one could define as the delivering mid-wife of your "countries" name, that so profusely and utterly confusing name of Somaliland. And the active supporters of this idea, this wretched idea, this colonial divide-and-conquer remnant of sectoring up Somalia, are none other than the inhabitants, with certain tribalistic incentives, residing in that area of NW Somalia. Had it not been for that, no such phony calls for slicing up Somalia would have come to pass and continue to be entertained in its existence, in the post-Siad Barre-bombing era,indeed . Getting down to the heart of the matter, lets take a look at the achievements of the glorious democratic nation of Somaliland over the last 20 years: what is the state of the public health system? is there any form of social security or functioning wide-spread private insurances? Is there even a public transport system available in Hargeisa or Oodweyne? How about literacy levels (rural and urban), women and childrens welfare, female genital mutilation? Why isn't Somaliland a tiger economy, seeing how its been a democracy for the last 20 years? Don't blame it on lack of international recognition or that Siad Barre had messed things up for you. It would be akin to accepting somalis to use Al-Shabab, Ethiopia and interclan warfare as an excuse to the state of the country. So while Somalia perfected "murderous skulduggery" over the last 20 yers, what exactly has Somaliland done? Enacting a "Lords Upper House" consisting of elders called guurti? And would it be too far-flung to believe that plurality of this guurti consists of the various sub-clans and family-clans of a certain tribe, known for residing up north? And as the icing on the cake your president (who keeps extending hsi seat, in the name of democracy I guess) is one of the highest paid officials in the world (with a humble abode in Dubai, hinting at his conviction of Somalilands excellence). All of a sudden, Somaliland politicians photo-shoots don't seem so much an auxiliary exercise as a pivotal, vacuum-filling and central theme of the false show called Somaliland Democracy. I am by no means a supporter of the clownish leaders of modern day Somalia. But despite this murderous lawlessness telecoms and money transfers function. Restaurants and shops as well. I'm pointing out these trivialities because their much the same things that Hargeisa or any other city in "Somaliland" got going for them. Only that your government (majority tribe) secured peace (bribable police that still keep up some sort of resemblance to protect and serve). And this, my friend, is what you're persistingly calling practicing democracy in Somaliland. Lastly, if you can somehow predict the future governance of Somalia vs. Somaliland, seeing how unpredictable such a task would be (forget millions of years, 10 years ahead is a better number) you should quit doing whatever your doing and join Goldman Sachs instead. Help them do "Gods work"

Originally posted by Oodweyne: ^^^ Mr. Thankful , I think, you really are missing the point in here, my friend , particularly when it comes ascertaining to as to why the international community have decided, at least from the get-go, not allow Somalia to become, “an empty space” (i.e., legally ); which was by way of always guaranteeing that some sort of “nominal legitimacy” should be given to who ever says that they rule Somalia at any given time ( even if it's a fictitious argument, as most of the international community knows it in their heart-of-heart, indeed ). And, furthermore, in so far Col. Yey is concern, contrary to what you may have read it on the news portal ( particularly of the clannish kind ), all he did was basically continue where his predecessor by the name of Mr. AbdiQasim Salad Boy , have left it. And that is “going-around-the-world” with a begging bowl, and making sure to be including in “any photo opportunity” that is going in any given international gatherings, indeed. So, you see, my friend , he was “welcomed” in China will full guard-of-honour with paraphernalia of State visit, does not really make a political substance of the kind, that “statehood” ( in the proper sense of that word ) are measured on, indeed. And, finally, in so far as Mr. Rayale is concern, you may not know this, but all of that delaying or postponing elections time-table ( which on the face of it is rather unfortunate ) will really be insignificant, when and if, a proper election of that office gets to be held within Somaliland, in due course. And furthermore, it will be like a day light to the darkness of the night, at least, if you compare it to the sort of “musical chair” of a political change-over that happens in Somalia, regularly. And, of course, this method of political change-over, in which Somalia became famous for it, is seriously akin to that old tired formula that was known as that of a “Mr. Buggin's turn” as the "old English saying" that used to define the notion of a politically-speaking the “circular-seat-warming” had it, indeed... :rolleyes: So, I think, we are not talking about the same thing in here, my friend .... Regards, Oodweyne. Haven't been around this forum but I still find your way of glorifying "Somaliland" and ridiculing Somalia (and in essence, albeit you coyly disguise it, somalis) to be utterly amusing. I can't help but see the, at times, rhetorical similarity between, the so called Somalilanders and their make-believe territory with that of the Israelis and their plot of land. The Siad Barre war against the NW Somali rebels have become the Holocaust of a certain group up north which later simply morphed into modern day Somaliland. Minus the blessings of the US and the entire international community that is. As far as photo opportunity goes, those occurances remain a standing event in the somaliland presidency repertoire as well, and this seemlessly without any tangible progress for the people and "country" said president represents. Somaliland prides itself in having established peace and "democracy" but lets get real. Unless were talking about that very somali type of democracy, namely tolka-democracy, you guys are doing nothing but bluffing the world to go colonial for a change and sector up the nation of Somalia. And the world is calling your bluff. Since secessionists are a particularly narrowminded breed of specimen, functioning solely with dicotomized variables in sight (recognize/dont recognize, my peaceful tribe/those other savage tribes - also callled George W. Bush-rhetorics), the world has simply resorted to entertaining them with continuous, never-ending "meetings" with ambassadors and other diplomats. Who in turn are greeted by the noble, peaceful, democratic Somaliland political leadership in plastic-covered couches much like the ones in the livingrooms of that film "Don't be a menace to society". Somaliland can start dissing somali politics when the region is doing more than handing out land to arabian princes to erect humble abodes.

Regarding Al-Amoudi and his "fortune". It is a classic middle-eastern oil money setup. Heres the story among the few initiated swedes that followed his rags to riches journey in the Kingdom: Sheikh Amoudi started out as a local small-time buyer/middleman for ABV in Saudi (ABV became swedish construction company NCC). His salary was, according to insiders, very meager. He remained very close with the swedes however. In 1987, a gigantic construction deal was offered him and the rest is history. With the money from that project + lots more from some members of the royal family he went on investing in Europe (quite alot in Sweden) and the rest of the world. The saudi royal family has a very simple way of risk mitigation in case of upheaval, revolt or war in the Kingdom: invest most of the money outside Saudi. As you can guess by now the great chunk of Amoudis fortune is not his but assets belonging to saudi royal members. He obviously receive a certain commission which by now should be in the 100s of million but the billions are not his. This is standard procedure in ME. Through few 100% loyal front-men invest outside Saudi. Very discrete and lowkey. So is Amoudi i've heard

Who the hell is Maximus Powers. Sounds like a George Michael song title. I've been locked up for way too long.

Li Ka-Shing, you should PM me.

Why don't you start calling me Gordon.

I'm on a loss. Is this the latest euphemistic term for arranged marriage?

Well I guess the obvious one is that I'll raise them islamically. That pretty much sums alot of things up. I'm also going to implement a local economy built on witticism. If say for instance the kid wants to have have an extra glass of milk he'll have to deliver a poem and if he/she misbehaves they'll have to deliver a short story, preferrably a poignant one to borrow one of MARX's overused words.

You are a flower shooting up from the mud planted by your parents And I shall be your water, Our children your pesticide, Our Creator your sunlight, And when your time has come to leave Earth for good May your good deeds be akin to the rock movements That press you for thousands of years Not into a perishable thing akin to oil But into a diamond so that you may shine forever And in eternity.