BISMILAH, i PRAY God to guide us al to the truth and right path of islam. islam is one religone depite the exsitance of many sect among the muslim umha. I HAve read the argument of groud advocate the salafism, in fact salafism exist in many form and no one can be quite sure which one of them is salafi. the fact of the matter is that they all interpreted the holy quran and prophet's sunah according to their on agendas. the mister of education of saudi calaims to be a salafi while he is well aware the corruptions and misusing of puplic funs by his own royal family.!!! islam is not a shirt anyone can wear it when he likes and remove it when he wishes. it is a priciples and fundmentals followed and obyed by those who beilef in God. we are muslim and we love all those declare themselves MUSLIM regardless of their intentions or their names,whether shiat,ashcariyah,wahabiyah,salafiyah khalifiyah e.t.c , someone there ( i think ukhti muslim) claimed that salafis are those who are upon what the prophet and his companion were !!! I will rephrase it salafs are those who are upon what the prophet was and follow the quran.i ommited the "companion" becuse we are well aware of what happened between the sahabs. if we follow mucawiyah, that means being dictator,royalism,suppression and so on.the current culture of royalism and dictatorship in the muslim midleast countries is resulted from the interpretation of histroy of sahabs, Sahabs were human they did great things but also did alot mischieves.we need to redefine the term "SAHABS" that is for the scholars not for me. we advocate the unity of muslim wherever they are whoever they are. that is islam.

the widely circle newspaper newyorktime has put for the grand ayatolahi cali sastani's name for nobel prize this year. the newspaper said sastanis's role of democrtisation in middles is simply can not be ignored. www.newyorktimes.com

With Shiites expected to take the lion share of the 275-seat National Assembly, their top religious leaders on Sunday, February 6, demanded that the new constitution must clearly stipulate that Islam be the sole source of legislation. http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-02/06/article05.shtml

african you made a valid point. however, i think everyone here recognises that islam can not be leveled with man-made sytems of governance.everyone also understands that holy quaran and sunah as the main guiders of our daily live needs to be interpreted according to our understanding capacity. So lets not talk about Democracy and talk about the political aspect of Islam, the part “How should a Muslim leader come to be� 1. Can I as a Muslim citizen have the right to choose who should lead me, do I have a say or nor? 2. Do I have the right to vote him out of office? Please answer the above question with YES or NO. the aswer of your questions will hugely depend on understanding and interpretation of quaran and sunah.if say no ie as muslim citizen have no right to choose who lead you then you understand well may be that muslim leader are God choosing and no one can challenge them, that is what is use to be and still is in some countries in muslim. royal families in the past used QADAR as tool to suppres the muslim citizens, it was a famous word " a takhlacu qamiisan qamasaka allahu" said by marwan. this sort of interpretation divided muslim into groups and sects and mark dark dot in the heart of muslim history.it classfies the muslim into first class and second as it is now in most of arab countries. if on the other hand say yes ie you have the right o choose who lead you as muslms citizen then you need to think of suitable ways that will not be contradictory to the teaching of islam.

this is my personal view, democracy has many forms, it means that people of a country has the last vote. it mean elected rulers are acountable to the people who elected them. now does islam gives such power to the people ? to answer the above question we must remind ourseleves that the age of holiy prophet is over, after him no one is holy.as ibnu malik said " everyone's word can be taken or threw away except the prophet". if there are no holy people among the moslims and the holy book is subject to the explanation of unholy scholars who cuased so much pain and division among the msulim, what shall we do? remember guys even the sunah is not agreed upon, becuase we do not agree if all the sahabs are justice in arabic cuduul or not. the only way possible solve and end the tyranny in muslim world is to give full power to the peole , majoratity counts , people should elect assemply and that assemply must be islamicly qualified people who have knowledge of islam as well as modern knowlege.these elected then will act as fuqhaa and will decide the politic. this is what is think waliyat faqiih. the shurah is not politically workable as the coucil of shurah are handpicked by the ruler with out the consent of the ruled.one may say that there are ayat which mentions and literaly comands prophet to seek consultation in arabic shuurah before making decisions, but that is becuase prophet was holy and he only takes what is right.

salif, i though i mentioned my source bro, maca sadiqiin authored by al-sheeikh tijani. the book is smal and handy to read. but let me say this, the ideology of glorifying some scholars or put them ahead them above the other ulimas is really dangerous and will not be much beneficial. actualy what is the significance of puting him or naming the sheeikh one of the greatest man put foot on earth?while we all nknow that he did not produce more than others.i think we need to grew up and look ahead leave the sheikh so and so is greater or better than others, we have been drawn into the myth of ravalims untill some belived that schoalr are part islamic pillar, i reemebr when i was studen in madars alislamiyah, alcaqiida aldaxawiyah was the main book for the caqiida h subject ,and the shaarix was so keen to expalin that muslim are obligated to believe that abuu bakar was the faisrt khalifah and umar second and uthman and ali and so on and so forth, this just for sectism. where in islam or in hadith was it mention that abuu bbakar or umar and so on were the part of pilars.if we do not leave behind the ravilism ideology we weill be always as muslim at the bottom of the civilasations. .we as muslim are suffering so much about this and today we are witnessing the effect of it. brother are killing the his brother becuase one follows ibnu taymiyah or lcaims to be salafi!!!!! while the other follows Jacfar raximahu allaha .this is not islam, islam is clear as sunshine on clear sky. alrijaal yaduuruuna calal al-xaqi wa leysa cagsa thalika although i do have alot of respect for him but i am also aware of him strong support to umayat family over ali calayhi salam .his view that hussien calayhi salaam was failed man.

the topic of the post suggest it all, salafi called sheeikh ibnu taymiyah " the greatest man put foot onearth" did salafi considered what that means really? as one of the replieres suggested this type of post would not be much benefit for the nomads becuase as one glorifies sheikh bnu taymiyah others will literaly describe him otherwise. no doubt that sheikh ibnu taymiyah name stands tall in suni salafiyah sect but is less popular in ashcariyah and shitte muslim sects. there, however, alot of his own students who fiecely disagree with him,i always find it very diffculty how sheikh shed doubt about islam of ali, in kitab called "maca sadiqiin" authored by tijani quated that ibnu tayamiyah claimed tha alis islam was not valid as ali ebraced islam as child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. this kind of hostility toward ali is absolutely put the sheikh in dark place in muslim history. i am sure the alot of muslim have much love for the sheikh as i do, becuase i think he made tremendous effort to spread kalimah having said that we must not forgot that as many scholar ibnu taymihyah has his flips.

in an artcle puplish in newkoryer magazine the whist blower of abu ghurayb jail arocities claim that american president George W. bush is preparing to hit iran'snuclear and missile instulation. http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9AC40D84-70C6-482B-B6A5-2A29B87199BB.htm iran in its part anounced it's milllitry's readness to ounter any attack .the iranian defence secratray said his country is not afraided of american threats and that his country has flexible millitary stratedies that american secret agencies can not infiltrate. http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/633478B5-714B-4C1A-9739-838B88BE7308.htm

it is getting into very interesting point.....

i am enjoying the discussion..

the outspoken and eloquent former prime miniser of malaysia Dr Mahathir mohamed urged the mslim to equip themsleve with modern education, in speech he said mulim fail to catch up with modern world, he said IQra doen not only mean to read the holy quran but also mean to aquire modern knowledge. http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-12/21/article04.shtml

ARaganimo...taqleed is not waajib please.God how can you possibly say that? no one in highly qualified scholars of madahib had ever adviced anyone to follow them blindly!!!look shaificis's own word he says" la tuqaliduuna" do not follow us blindly. u know what by saying the taqliid is wajib you are actually imply leaving the encouragement of seeking knowledge..taqliid is mathmuum meaning is not good,muslim are adviced to learn their religone and take the reliogon from the source which the scholar and experts took it from. never let someone tell you about yur religone. it is as wajib upon you to learn ur religone as it is on the scholar. God will not ask you in day of jugement why u did not follow sheekh shaafici or malik or binu xanbal he will simply ask you why you did not follow his masanger.learn it now. taqliid is permitted with condtions that one can not learn his religone.

i c ur responses and here is what i think my freind should have done, actually my friend's stuation was bit complicated becuase at first place he was discussing the issue with guy who insulted the prophet, he(friend) was discuss the religone with negerian lady and thensudeely this congo guy come and start insulting my beloved prophet..my friend's reaction was kicking him and boxing the guy hard.he teach him unforgatable lesson, i liked what my friend did becuase the congolese claim to be a former muslim and properly knew how much will a amuslim care of his prophet so there was no need of further discussion with him at the time. but to me if I encounter such situation i think i would have handled it differently becuase as some of you mentioned prophet has been insulted while was alive quite alot.. remember the acraabi who grap the prpohet's color and called him unjust .. he( prophet) PBUH did not fight with him he just left him alone.and best way to teach someone is through action.showing him how tolearte you are .

nomad this is a sory happened to one of my friends, I will tell you his re-action to the incident but i first like to know how you would have responded if it happended to u. what happend is that one of my friens was working in multiculral, mult-ethnic and multi-religone company,he had religone dicussion with one of his collegues ,suddenly the other guy start insulting our prophet (PBUHM) labelling him womaniser, dictator and all sort of unappropriate descriptions. my friens did what he believed to be right.how would your reaction be if you were in his position?

Ghaylan aldimishiqi (-a man sluaghtered by muslim khalifah -)was the firt to suggest the free will of human being, ghaylan was as you properly know the founder of muctazilah, he oppose the ruling royal family of his periond who normaly argued that their authority is By QADAR and God given and no member of the puplic should question about it! it is absolute authority, authority in which if the if the inocent are beaten they are beaten becuase of Qadar and no one should complain about it . guys i am telling you this Qadar has been misused by awful alot of peop;e from ruler of earlyday to todays ruling families in muslim world. Our beloved prophet PBUH was once asked about the deeds we do in this world why are we doing it is everything is pre-destined in QADAR, propphet PBUH answer " icmaluu fakulin muyasarun limaa khuliqa lahu" meaning go do continue your good deeds everyone is will naturally do what he was created for.so what about the the hadith that mentions " one of you will do good deeds all his life untill between him and paradise is less a foot distance then his book will take over and he start doing bad and enters the hell!!!"to some extent this hadith is terrifing!! God is just he never do unjust to his creatures, In the holy quran GOd says ( wamalahu bithalamin lilcabiid) suratul Qaaf.meaning God is not unjust on his servant, the questions is how are we gona have a solution between the above mentions ayah and earlier Hadith? the questions goins on how much free will do we humans have?if everything is pre-destined why are required at all to do deeds? if we do not understand the answer for this question onather questions comes into the field which is, will God demand us to do somthing we do not understand, some concept that is beyond our human understand capacity? I (sayfu allah) as one do not think God the just the AL-LATIIF AL-RAXIIM will demand us to follow and do something we can not comprehend, that is why he SBHWT snet massangers to all nations in holy quaran suratul faadir" wama min umatin illa khalaa fiahaa nadiir" there were no nation but we sent a warner.it would have been pointless to send massangers to guide humans and preach them truth if God will anyway punish them( of course God can punish whom he want and be mercifull to whom he chooses) but God is just and will never punish someone for nothing, and that is of course why Opression is prohibited . .read this ayah ( alam najcal lahu cayneyn walisaanan wa shafateen wahadeynahu alnajideen ) didn't we give the human two eyes, a tangue and lips and we guide him the path.to my understanding we are given the complete free will!! God and stated everything clearly and let us choose with own will which way we want, therefore before we act for every actions that human do there are two possible Qadars,and which one your choose is urs!! that is the Ibdaal GOd says In holy quran ( yubadilulaahu maa yashaa wa cinddahuu umul kitaab meaning God changes what he want and the with himn is the original book( looxul almaxfuud).but we must be carefull to say things easly becuase somepoeple we get really lost in such are complex topic.we must talk to the people ( this is for the preachers) according to their capacity of knowledge, that is what our beloved peophet PBUH taught us .as I said in earlier post it is realy a matter of faith, there are many ayahs and hadith that talk about QADAR but i must addmit that the interpretations of such ayahs and hadith it is a circle of that never stops on one spot. continues like that for ever and no one can give a absolutely persuasive answer for this kind of questions, I do not know God know the best,and I pray to forgive for any error.