Please do not allow emotions to derail what is a valid discussion! Especially irrelevant ones about politics and arrogance. Maybe the two gentlemen should step outside and we could take bets. There is nothing special about a woman's rights but she does have some just as men do. To even discuss a woman's rights given to her by Islam seems to bring on a foaming at the mouth. Why is this? Is feminism so entrenched in our minds? Does every opinion a woman has have to be linked to this movement? During the Prophet's(pbuh) time, everyone prayed in one single space. If this were practised now, it wouldn't matter which gender outnumbered which. All would be accommodated somehow and the women would be aware of the goings-on of the community and would be more praticipatory. Imagine passing by a mosque and wishing to stop for prayer or contemplation and being barred. This is not Islam and yet it is prevalent in many cultures. If the men were turned away from mosques, they would be outraged and yet such outrage is denied us. Every deterioration of a people begins with the loss of the most basic human rights. The women need to take a more pro-active role in the communities. Of course, they will be shushed. For those whom I have bored, irritated or offended, step outside. The fist-fight will provide some welcome relief no doubt.

Khayr, u seem to imply knowing what the traditional response would be? I'm genuinely interested: what is it? Married women with children are the ones who feel the lack of a mosque or the smallness of its allocated space the most. That is their Daruuf. There is such a thing as empathy and many of us have mentioned their struggle when responding to this post. These women are less likely to go as they have much on their hands and when they want to go, they either can't or face an uncomfortable visit. I'm not sure what would convince some people that there is a norm to forget the women when building these mosques. Are our first-hand accounts not sufficient? Somebody somewhere may have the numbers to support this for any given town. I grew up in the East and in the 'traditional' way Khayr hints at and I never saw the inside of a mosque! Tradition is nothing more than the ways of a people at a certain point in time. It was not traditional to leave women out of mosques at the Prophet's(pbuh) time but it sure is now. If that's a tradition some want upheld, then we have a huge problem. Nobody is supporting the writer of this article and whether DA was right to use this article to highlight the situation is down to personal opinion. What we can not get away from is the fact that the majority of mosques do not cater to women.

If we need a solution for the space problem, I suggest the men deal with the pray-while-keeping-toddler-from-being-trampled-by-worshippers scenario. All the kids can go in with them. It seems to me the men are jumping to the defence of their gender. The boys doth protest too much. The fact is most mosques around the world don't even have a section for the women. There is no option if there is no option given to the women. It's simple. How many mosques in the rich Gulf states have women areas? This isn't only about economics. To claim that they won't use it is defeatist. If the space is to be used for teaching, learning and prayer, the women should be encouraged to attend when they can. A blanket assumption robs them of the opportunity. The mosque isn't all about the prayers. In the West, isn't it even more vital to have a fully functional, all-encompassing haven?

have u been there while the women have been there and seen it at its maximum capacity? Were the number of potential female attendees going to be accommodated comfortably? India does not have many mosques that allow female worshippers. At the largest mosque in India, some 25,000 worshippers can be accommodated. The women pray at the mosque but there are no separate wudu areas for them. They come having completed their ablutions or use the pool in the middle of the mosque, in full view of all. The women's mosque is probably a one of a kind in India.

give up the day job . Channel 4's always on the look-out for the next mind-reader.

It is NOT a North American phenomenon. The women r relegated to corners and confined spaces. At the mosque I've prayed at the most, Eid morning, the corridors turn into manic, congested alleys. Prams, women and children fight to go in and fight harder to get out. Unorganised and uncomfortable, u get trampled upon, people raise their voices and some turn sour. It takes something away from the occasion. It puts one off going. How can that be good? The modern mosque is performing only one of its functions for the women(space to pray) and not very well at that.

Originally posted by Sareeda: alhamdulilahi i have a fair skin have had too much exposure to the whole skin colour issue lately to respond to this reasonably. someone read my mind and organise the thoughts into something constructive.

My password reverted to the one I was first assigned with. But I'm not complaining.

Your skin must have issues with u; u're denying its right to crawl.

gobbledygook to u all too

u must have a special kind of skin

What about when some members respond purely in Swahili or Arabic and the unknowing only have to guess in frustration? It would make more sense to put a limit to this(out of consideration to the majority) rather than worry about one man's posts. He isn't a guru with an earth-shattering message. Or is he? All responses in Nepalese, please.

Some men don't get this. Listen..we women have to go to the extra effort of covering up as Muslims. Having a pervert(male of course) watch me may not be my fault but it is still not something I want to be subjected to. It is a violation of my privacy. There is no end to a pervert's methods in getting a glimpse of unsuspecting female flesh. Mirrors are an old favourite whether two-way or deliberately dropped on floors. Peeping through windows and drilling holes in walls are other classics. Imagine some greasy stranger watching you and getting a sexual kick out of it. Don't tell me that doesn't make your skin crawl, man or woman.

Originally posted by Qac Qaac: Under the sharia a women that cheats gets stoned too. just to clarify things. And where was the confusion?

Originally posted by somalsijui: Such was the length of her toe nails, she severed his penis. Damn. Where does she get her pedicures? :confused: The less embarrassing version of events me thinks. :eek:

Why does every post Sophist starts descend into him having to defend his right to write as he wishes? The man isn't changing for any of us any more than we will for him. To each his own. Get used to it and if not get over it. Variety is the spice of life.

moti's won this one

so much for secrets

a little closer to paradise, inshallah... ...where the lamas live... ..shh..

Originally posted by Boqorki SOL: ^^^just make sure hes an arrogant one, he will have no problems dealing with fat ugly white guys who drink coffee all day and use the f word more often than they can blink :rolleyes: , glad to say its hasnt rubbed off on me,,,,,just yet Not to mention the sight of all those builder's cracks. For that u must need a strong stomach.

Originally posted by Mutakalim: J11 However, do not give me false anticipation. PS I have given you sufficient time to review all necessary literature..... **Pistols at dawn**

The aim is to mark the respect and love the UAE have for the camel. God Almighty. Where is the respect and love for the young boys that are abducted from the sub-continent to race these creatures?? Boys as young as two are bought or kidnapped from their homelands, forced to go hungry(to keep their weight down), are given no education or decent care and risk injury and death. When they've outgrown their use, they're either given some work(if they're lucky)but always face the risk of being imprisoned for being an illegal immigrant or are dumped in some random country nearby. More money than sense. Shame. Shame. Shame. http://www.camelraces.com/ http://www.uaeprison.com/camelkids.htm

Stay the hell away from that stuff. This article is a few years old but do read it: "Bleaching action can take weeks or months to work and when women stop using the creams they cause hyperpigmentation - patchy or blotchy skin - which is caused by the accumulation of toxic hydroquinone," says Jolly. "If it penetrates below the outer layer into the dermis it causes collagen fibres to thicken, leading to possibly irreversible damage to connective tissue in skin cartilage and premature aging. Once in the blood stream it can cause liver and kidney damage and lead to organ failure." Women do not always realise that it is the lightening cream which has destroyed their skin, because initial results are often encouraging. However as the product builds up the damage begins and exposure to the sun while using the product causes the skin to darken, a development which encourages women to slap on even more lightener. Here's the full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,3899316,00.html

So it's easier to lower your expectations than to enhance your relationship skills? And does lowering your expectations come with a change in your view of your partner- a less favourable view? This caught my eye: "The guy or the woman, though generally it's the man, can be so thick that they can't see what's being expected of them, or if they can see it, they might resent the expectations placed on them." If in doubt, blame the guy.

Time does not bring relief Edna St. Vincent Millay Time does not bring relief; you all have lied Who told me time would ease me of my pain! I miss him in the weeping of the rain; I want him at the shrinking of the tide; The old snows melt from every mountain-side, And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane; But last year's bitter loving must remain Heaped on my heart, and my old thoughts abide! There are a hundred places where I fear To go,--so with his memory they brim! And entering with relief some quiet place Where never fell his foot or shone his face I say, "There is no memory of him here!" And so stand stricken, so remembering him!