Still jumping, Ngonge. I wouldn't marry Jr. I'd confine him and give him a few classes: Control of the ego 101 Control of the ego 102 Control of the ego 103 Control of the ego infinite If all Somali wives are like that, their husbands must be spineless and masochistic. So the reason the men seek new wives would be to explore new ways to be dominated? Is that it? I'm seeing $ signs. Thre's money to be made here. Match-making for the downtrodden married Somali man. Feel free to PM me guys and I'll give u a personal quotation.

Man, u have jumped to an egotistical conclusion. I didn't want your son for the purposes of propagation. Your illusions of grandeur must be genetic and must not be allowed to continue unchallenged down the family tree. I'd have put Jr. somewhere where he wouldn't trip over his over-inflated ego and pierce his ear drums with own bombastic utterances. I'd have fed him well, even allowing him tea, TV and a boring job. I'm a philanthrophist. What can I say?

Warya isqor, since u're so generous can I have one of your sons in say 20 years?

Why didn't Papa tell me about the ready availability of 60 year old Somali men when I was sweet 16? Golly Gosh, I miss out on all the good cultural stuff.

Many relevant points have been made all along. The responses to some posts have been geared more towards the poster rather than the content. It's a shame that online personality takes precedence over content.

yaa?

Ever have had one of those 'I should have said something' days?? Someone got on my nerves in a serious way but I didn't give him the satisfaction of knowing. I let him be yesterday. But if he talks BS to me today... ...wave goodbye to him, ladies and gentleman, wave, wave, wave..it'll be a memorable Friday the 13th for him.

Originally posted by IL CAPO: Thanks for messing up the whole topic though, you should be proud of yourself, well done. i am out. I couldn't possibly take responsibility for what you achieved entirely on your own. That wouldn't be proper of me.

That was not your point. Re-read your words. Stating another opinion does not negate the first one you professed. If u genuinely feel concern for the women why the derogatory language?

U find it fairly 'understandable' if a man goes to a whore? Don't feel sorry for the woman. She knows him for what he really is now, if she didn't already suspect him. She's free of his potentially diseased self and his debauchery. The comment about juice is quite disgusting.

Mutakalim, you must have some opinion on the matter. Climb down from Meta-horse and confound us. I await your contribution.

This is how it begins: first there's the 'there isn't enough room' reason- we don't have enough space to create a separate room for the women. when there shouldn't in fact be a need for a separate prayer room So the women know not to go there because if they do they're told there's no room for them. 'No room' ends up meaning 'Don't come here'. At some mosques, the men flat out say women are not allowed in. Honest at least but a direct violation of our Prophet's (saw)teachings. End result's the same: women are kept away from the mosques.

There are some very serious accusations flying about, both outright and underhand. Will everyone concerned reflect, please? There is so much unpleasantness, ego and demonising running through these posts. Can we de-personalise the discussion for starters? And drop the witty judgemental put-downs. It's not funny. And it's not getting any of us closer to the straight path. I'll return to the topic as I find it is a necessary discussion and quite frankly will not be dissuaded by those that patronise, play the feminist card or dismiss the topic altogether. Something that I would like to address is this: women distracting men at the mosque... This is a silly notion perpetuated by men. It seeks to put the responsibilty of a man's roving eye on the woman. When I'm in the mosque, I really couldn't care less about the bloke in the corner. I'd like to know, if men are claiming to be incapable of self-control? Is the sight of a sister even at the mosque such an impedement to their spirituality? And if it is, it must be something in the 21st century water they drink for the men of the Prophet's(saw) time never came to him complaining of this. Time and again, modernisation is brought up as a way to explain away a woman's calls for better social conditions. If the men are ill-informed as to the difficulties facing their sisters world-wide, I say wake up. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. U're dealing with MUSLIM women here. No one's demanding to burn bras. We're simply asking why we're turned away from mosques. This place is what it is : a discussion forum. To those suggesting the women here do something, I say, we are. We're highlighting a problem and there is a great deal of good in that in itself. Thank you DA for bringing this up.

I've been spit at, had people move away FAST when they see me zero-ing in to ask for directions, had old women cross the street and mostly been PATRONISED. This last one I have trouble with. U're so articulate! Wow, u're clever!, they say and all with a confused look on the face. I also see people's eyes search my face when I talk, struggling with something. 2 days ago, this guy says to me: u speak good English. I live in England, so.. I say. Ah, he nods vigorously in a that-explains-it kind of way. I smirk internally. My knowledge of English has nothing to do with the Brits. If it did, I'd not have been quite so articulate.. I'm surprised there aren't any serious racist stories here. A black man is 8 times more likely to be stopped by 'routine' police checks in London(maybe all of England). Where are those stories? Not to mention the disproportionate numbers of blacks(men and women) in jail and expelled from schools. Racism isn't necessarily obvious. How many of us have sent in CV after CV, filled in job application after another and not got a positive result? Bad luck or black luck?

The man has done what he can as he knows best- through his words. He doesn't need to harbour political ambitions. He may not have an aptitude for it in any case; those that think they do are still getting it wrong. Many think they can make a difference but I don't see them packing up and making the move.

This isn't about ovaries and testicles. Lack of fidelity is not symptomatic of biological features. Men try and use the differences in biology to justify their sexual wrong-doings. I don't remember Allah prescribing a more lenient punishment for a man's sexual indescretion. P.S: the location has more to do with temperature-contol than desire non-control.

Do this . She'll wonder what u're up to and it saves u wasting any energy plotting a come-back. Make it a non-issue and she won't have anything to feed off from. I remember a guest who stayed briefly with us and acted like a xayawaana- can't think of a better word . Bad manners ruffle my feathers. I was glad to see the back of her and somehow restrained from delivering a kick to her derriere as she left.

Let them have one. Far too many of them are in jail or suffering from mental illness or both. They have plenty to talk about. A more remote way of discussing their issues may alleviate someone's distress or confusion. I'm all for talking without chewing. Although, darn it, there is no guarantee that the responses will not be qat-fuelled.

Get well inshallah, sis.

Cajiib. Didn't realise being provided with a women's section was perpetuating women's so-called victimhood. Having a women's section provides neither absolute privacy nor relevance. There are no relationships without men, no romance without men. Unless we're meant to be trading Mills and Boon stories alone, the blurb should be changed. At best it's thoughtful at worst it's patronising. Each of us makes of it what we will. There should be a men's section. The men seem to find comfort asking certain questions in the women's section. Maybe the women will find the same in a men's section. It would be interesting to read what goes on in the mind of the 'prepetrators'..

Considered being the first wife and the last both at once. Then again..I could just about keep my sanity being the first but nobody and I mean nobody leaves me LAST!! Mental note to self: it is this erratic behaviour that keeps them away. Keep at it...

Originally posted by J11: Dont be 'a very conscientious ghost.' Scared you, huh? Here's something I came across a couple of years ago: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com Don't miss the letters page: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/letters.html

Yes, do give the men a section so our women may have a playground.

Waryaaaa, J11, am I not obsessed enough with the interpretations of 'black' lately? Do u have to tease me with new perspectives? Unforgivable, man. If I perish from excessive contemplation, I will have to thank you for putting the final nail in the coffin. And thank you I shall, from beyond the grave. Watch out, I'm certain I'll make a very conscientious ghost.

Juxa, this is very interesting. Documenting our lives in some way is very important, I wish you luck. I don't know what your project involves but if u can, do not restrict yourself to those that have 'made it', whatever that means. It is hearing of the struggle of others- which continues daily for all of us- that inspires us and encourages us to keep at it. The end result is often not all it's cracked up to be. The honour is in the struggle. Keep spreading the word via the Internet and email and u will find wholesome, bittersweet stories in the most unusual of places. I should know. Let us know how this shapes up if u can. Baashi and LS, the degree and its 'end result' too are a struggle. We rely less on our instinct when we become part of a system. Would either of u drop the job and start selling cards in a small kiosk? Even if u knew there was easy money to be made which would allow u to move on to something else? But that's another topic. I'll stop torturing juxa.