^ This is as good as it gets when it's as bad as it is. Any nicer and I'd be oozing glucose out of my ears. U be nice too now, are those asterices I see? Tut.

Originally posted by Naasir: Sheherezade, What a name, where does dat come from, lol@ "Fiary Tale", actually it is doable and i encourage you to go for it, Women are tough to deal with, at the same time they are weak and need some one to lead them, however they don't know that untill u come along, so brother come and get on the bus with us,,, oohhh yeee you can alwayz complete the max allowed even if you have to go back home Anywayz I Pray to God to save us from Women. Also I Pray to God to lead us the right way. Hohohohahaha. What a name indeed! One would think u'd know seeing as u're living in fairy-tale land. If I do go for a woman I'd be labelled a lesbian(u following me?) and if I went for 2 or 3 or 4 I'd be one hell of a kinky lesbian(still with me?). Or have I distracted you? I do pray for the Lord to show you the right way AND to save you from women. U're going to need it.

Dude, I keep telling you: YOU scratched your own back.

There must be a summarise virus in the air. covers mouth with hijab(it has many uses)

Laugh I did, u can betchya. And now u're joking with Castro. I await too with muchos amusement

I never knew u felt this way, Sky. Do u want to talk about it? To somebody else of course, menogiveadamn. Unrequited dislike must suck.

LooooL. To think I nealy abandoned SOL.

Baashi, my point is: the identical Islamic post may come from Nur and another SOLer but Nur's words will have more gravity. Why? Because he sells himself as our light/guide/reminder whatever. An audience cheers when a familar, good-guy stand-up comes on stage but they may be kinder to him if he flops as they know he can do better. When its comedy, it's fine when it's serious issues, it's not. I'm not attacking Nur. I have benefited greatly from his work. Don't know if I'm making sense- somebody has been beating a dog(may be more than one) savagely for the last few minutes. I have NEVER heard such cries of agony from any creaure in my life, I have been hearing the blows make contact with bodies. What shall I do? I'm so mad, too much of a wimp to go and confront the real animal doing this to the dogs behind his closed doors; he might turn on me. It's making me sick. Ya Allah, how evil, I'm going to make a call to the animal protection people, u can't have an animal taking care of 3 dogs.

^ditto on the procrastination. Which reminds me- stories don't finish themselves.

Don't forget 'happily ever after' since u're expecting a fairy tale.

Baashi, Nur's observation was simplified into 3 types of women as a reflection of their Imaan- something u elaborated on the first time it was posted. This topic is like a stand-up gig where some boo and the rest howl in agreement. Nur's routine will not always hit home- depends on the audience- and he needs to know why. We can be a tough crowd and for a reason. If Nur wants to get his message across he will have to pay attention to his timing and delivery or it will fall flat on its face- for some of us. Of all the people in these boards Nur gets the most applause and Castro the most jeers. Neither is infallible but one deals exclusively with Islamic issues and his words should be put to more scrutiny. Too many are too busy trying to lynch Castro who has never offered to enlighten us. Nur, has chosen this role and this audience isn't made up entirely of cheering robots(and I have done my share of cheering him on) or laughing men. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of THINKING going on on SOL.

^LoL. Five things I've done Walked into a lamp post(still hear the 'ding') Motorbiked through mountains(u haven't lived until u've done this) Scared strangers on the streets(one man nearly had a myocardial infarction last week courtesy of me) Fooled complete strangers into asking me to marry them(or their son, their grandson, their brother) by doing nothing Almost finished a story that I'll submit to a publisher(procrastination is a dog)

Nur decided to defend himself on his own account. I never called him sexist but pointed out why I didn't agree with his other post. This post is supposed to show me(and CG) that he isn't sexist; personally I couldn't care less whether Nur is sexist or not. I try and deal with each topic separately most especially where serious issues are being discussed. Nur I know what motivated you to do this but u didn't need to in my opinion and it wasn't helpful in your aim. That is all. Muslim brotherhood shouldn't kick in only when Islamic topics are concerned or when Nur is the poster. I'm going to stop because I keep wanting to write stuff Ngonge would and there can only be one of him on this forum. If this topic is to be deleted, it should be Nur that pushes the button.

Dear poster, you have sex on the mind. Read again: I believe I need 2 women and believe I can financially support (being in the States of course I am not planning to marry some one who isn't going to work at all, hence "house wife"). Need = Sex Moreover, all these people saying go for it have neglected to notice that you want a wife that will help with what is your part of the deal Islamically(financial responsibility). U're already saying u can't handle it and they're telling u to go get 2 wives. You and they are irresponsible. I really DO wish people would read what is presented to them before regurgitating their views. Stop dating- Islamic advice. And be a man- Sheh's advice.

Nur, I don't know why u posted this. It doesn't work. Satire it is not. I'm only responding to this since u've dedicated it to me and I have a chronic be-polite disease.

When I remember India I smile and shiver by turns. LOL. They are nosey I can say that much with a certainty. I had to tell one guy to please stop asking me questions. By this time, I assure you I had been polite and cooperative for a long time until I suddenly realised I was talking about my brother in law and where he works and whether his wife works at the same place he does and whoa..The man got into a mood after that not saying anything at all. When I asked him a question he said: madam told me not to ask questions!! Caano Geel, I couldn't live there. I would develop high blood pressure and permanently bulging forehead veins, not a good look. I did visit Manali; I was as sick as a dog by then, Delhi-belly be damned. I remember going into a bank one day- straight out of the 1950s to get some Rupees. I was passed from the teller to another to a desk to another, filling forms, finally ending up with somebody senior who had a buddy sitting next to him- a visitor. A cup of tea was in front of the visitor. I was offered one but I was too sick to contemplate it. After seeing my name on the paperwork, the senior bank man starts to recite Urdu poetry for me; the poem was peppered with my name. When he finished his visitor all the while Indian-nodding says, 'Vah Vah'. I smiled forgetting that I needed the toilet for a couple of minutes. U can't beat that- a serenade at the bank. That village you mention sounds familar but the whole area was stunning, very Heidi, don't you think? I was at the Taj at 6 am. I was up way before, having showered, prayed and packed.

Rahima, perhaps each culture will require its own clean-up process with a slant on the women for Somalis(they ARE their own worst enemy) for instance and an emphasis on the men for another. Roob, I made it clear from the start that I didn't want to engage in banner-waving- Islam is good etc. People use it as a way of brushing aside the real issues and I wanted to focus on what is rather than valid points that are used as excuses. You have done that so thank you. Xiin, it was not my intention to prove the presence of female oppression in Muslim societies in this post. You on the other hand are determined to 'show' me that there isn't a problem. And how have you done so? Firstly, you have suggested that I have had bad experiences and that these may have dirtied my painter's brush. Not only is this uncalled for and unsubstantiated(I never drew on personal experience alone) you have mocked me for doing so(something I haven't done mind you). I recommended the magic carpet trip because I believe in going outside my personal realm and seeing for myself what the situation actually is. Drawing merely on what I(insignificant as a statistic) have experienced would be narrow-minded and laughable. Had I done so your mockery would have been justified but it was in vain. You then go on to back-up your 'no oppression' shouts with an example from your past. Do you see what I see? You have painted with a brush dipped into an eye-blink, a drop in the paint of Muslim culture and presented your work with flourish. Voila. How utterly, contradictory and feeble. Title your painting, 'Own goal'. You have used a painting technique that you yourself mock. Once again, it was never my intention to prove oppression(this is a given in my mind) but if your are bent on disproving its existence, you are doing a woeful job. You personalised this when you suggested I speak of my own limited experience alone. It is the oldest trick in the book, unworthy of any topic, but when presented as you have yours, something to laugh at out loud and wholeheartedly. Raise that bar you speak of, don't point it at me.

U have an analogy that you couldn't not share with us so u used it. But it doesn't support your Imaan top-up call, does it? As Imaan is gender-less how about you create an analogy for something that both the sexes suffer from and that shows outwardly in their behaviour? It might take more ingenuity, I grant you. You can't see Imaan on the whole and what you might see as a representation of one's Imaan may not be the entire story. Imaan is a difficult subject to explain let alone analogise but u could have picked on prayer for instnace. Or was that too serious a subject to trivialise into 3 categories? U went for the obvious, Nur. Men can't take their eyes off women, can they? You say: In men a similar classification exists, but, men do not have to wear special dress to show their observation of the law, But in their actions, or the lack of, one can tell if they are forward biased toward Islam, conducting both ways, or outright resisting the guidance of siraatul Mustaqeem. This is also true for women, I know you know. U are writing this from a man's point of view; picking on women's attire and creating categories where some are sisters and others are not is a cheap shot. It rhymes, I get it, haha, I also get the science part, woohoo. If what u really wanted to do was discuss women's Imaan(the clever part of the unfunny analogy, although there are two analogies in your topic- the other is the energy analogy) then do so by all means. This attempt at creating a humourous list aimed at the women and tagging it with 'but men also' in an effort to appease is not going to cut it. One funny analogy to cover the issue please.

Taj Mahal Imam gets Mughal-era salary! Old is gold? Certainly not for the Shahi Imam of Agra's Taj Mahal who is still being paid the same Rs 15 that his ancestors used to get during the reign of Mughal emperor Shah Jahan. According to bureaucrats of the Archaeological Survey of India, present custodian of the world famous monument, they are bound only by the letter and not spirit of the Shahi Firman (Royal Decree) that says the Imam is entitled to 15 coins a month. Although the 15 asharfis of Shah Jahan's day have grown in value to around Rs 7000 now, the ASI shells out only 15 coins of Rs 1 each. The present Shahi Imam Sadiq Ali insists he's grossly underpaid. His pittance of a salary doesn't even cover the cost of a rickshaw trip to the ASI office located 3 kms away from the mosque, complains Ali. To add insult to injury, the Shahi Imam's assistant, who is a government employee, gets Rs 5000 every month. His boss however has to make do with the exact same number of coins that Shah Jahan paid centuries ago. Despite the unsatisfactory employment conditions, the Shahi Imam can hardly go easy on his job. Besides leading the prayers five times a day as well as Friday noon prayers, he is also responsible for the upkeep of the mosque. Ali is furious at the ASI for making mockery of the royal patronage that his predecessors once enjoyed. If he's still an employee of the Great Mughals, then why does the ASI bother to pay him a ridiculous salary at all, he fumes. source

7, I'm curious about your 'unity in diversity' comment. I know India likes to sell itself as a multi-faith cooperative society. My experience while there was different. The fact that I covered my head and so 'religiously' got on many nerves. Complete strangers said I should take it off!! Even on the morning of the visit to the Taj, the rickshaw guy said: Madam, this is India, you can take that off!! The Hindus when I told them that I was a Muslim(as a quick answer) would nod and say yes we know. They didn't like seeing such an obvious admission of my faith. Period. I tried hard not to come to that conclusion but over and over it happened. I had white people hearing in on these conversations defending me. India tests your patience anyway and everywhere I went I was annoyed, irritated and sometimes intimidated(Musalmaan, they would whisper). Naively I had not expected such a response in India. I went to get away from that sort of response, you know. But everyhwere I go, there's my hijab. The Muslims I talked to told me not to get hoodwinked into the one-India branding. I also read enough to fill my head up to the brink about India and its fascinting and horrifying history. By the morning of the Taj visit I was exhausted and jaded; the Mosque lifted my spirits. I've found an article two days old reporting that the Imam of that Mosque still only gets paid Rs15- what was promised that Mosque's Imams 400 years ago. That's 19 pence/34 cents. Grr. What romance are you worried about? Ramadan?

^ A lot of men think like that. She's doing a good job but it's an easy one. Her role is also limited to the rearing of the children. She can't have any problems while she's at home all day can she? I'm a good man. I'm not saying you're not or that there aren't many good men out there; it just seems we're all myopic in our thinking and therefore in what we feel capable of moulding and changing. BTW, Allah has already given us the answers(can't use that as an excuse), I'm interested in hearing why we're not putting them into practise especially where the social welfare of women is concerned. Can u tell me why you think so? X, I didn't understand your comment entirely. I sincerely await your response. I started this for a reason, brother.

6 am and I'm at the entrance to the Taj Mahal. I join the foreigner's queue where I'll be paying through the nose for the privilege of seeing one of the wonders of the world. Two of the men hanging around(touts and such like) proceed to talk about me in Hindi. Isn't she Hindustani? I think she is says the other. She's in the wrong queue gasps the first. Still neither tries to talk me out of the queue. I buy my ticket and rush past the hanger-ons. I expect to see the Taj Mahal straightaway but there is a complex I have to go through first. I don't look around, I don't care much, I want to see the Taj. And there it is. The Taj Mahal. I feel disoriented, am I in a picture, a post card? Was I standing looking at the Taj Mahal. I stop and stare. That big middle dome, those 4 minarets, the gardens and waters leading up to it; all so familiar and yet I'd never been there before. There is a feeling of personal ownership too, I want to breathe on that dome and shine it with my khameez-sleeve. I cast my eyes about and for the first time really notice the two sandstone structures on either side of the Taj Mahal. I take pictures from this angle and that, big Germans and little Japanese getting in the way. I don't feel warmth towards the TM. I had been reading the history of the Mughals and was unimpressed with their debauched selves, however grand their escapades and their architectural structures were. Shah Jehan, the emperor who had built the TM had done it in memory of his second wife Arjumand Banu Begum. Aged 39 and in the ninth month of her 14th pregnancy she had accompanied him to crush some rebellion or other. She died in childbirth. She extracted 4 promises from him legend has it: to build a mausoleum in her name, to remarry, be kind to their children, to visit her on her death anniversary. He managed to keep promise 1 and 2. Shah Jehan, a womaniser and a cruel man also gave generously to the poor. To get to the throne he had murdered his own brothers. At some point two of his sons start to display sibling rivalry and seek to throw their poorly father off the throne- in keeping with tradition. One brother kills the other and has the dead brother's head delivered to the father, Shah Jehan. He then takes over the thrown, confines Shah Jehan to Agra Fort where he spends the next 8 years until his death. The TM in the meantime had been completed. 22 years, 1000 elephants, craftsmen, masonries, calligraphers from Asia and even Europe had made a promise come true. The emperor's wife's remains finally after a couple of moves made it to her final earthly resting place in the centre lower chambers of the Taj in keeping with the strict symmetry of the Taj. The son decides to bury the emperor next to his beloved thereby ruining the perfection of the symmetry. The last laugh maybe. Legend also has it that Shah Jehan had merrily chopped off the arms of the craftsmen working on the Taj after its completion. As I stood before the Taj I couldn't help feeling cynical. Romance? I couldn't get past the cruelty of the womanising, back-stabbing, murderous, ostentatious Mughals. I walk down the gardens, past soldiers standing lazily, rifles(or whatever) by their sides. One barks at me: Ticket!! Natch. Me and my hijab-ed self. What could I have been hiding under it? Irritated, I start to pull the ticket out and he waves me away abruptly when he sees I have it. Thank you, *******, I cuss in Somali. Romance at the Taj. Inside the dark and surprisingly small Taj, we circle the tombs. I find it particularly dull; we were circumnavigating the dead; it was a mausoleum. Period. I hear guides speaking Italian in an Indian accent, German in an Indian accent and English in an American accent. I stop to eavesdrop now and then but leave quickly, there’s an air of reverence which turns my stomach. Outside again and barefoot, I walk around the Taj and from there see the Yamuna(pathetically water-free), the banks of which the Taj is built on. I sit somewhere in disappointment after more picture snapping. I hadn’t been moved; sure it was aesthetically pleasing and an architectural wonder but it hadn’t done it for me. I wanted a refund. I abandon the Taj and walk to the sandstone building on its right. I’m still barefoot, sandals hanging off two fingers. I reach it and can not believe what I see. The building is in a deplorable state, bat guano and pigeon splattering covered everything. I slip my sandals on and walk into the sulphurous air. There is another couple there. I wonder why they don’t take care of this place; it was part of the Taj Mahal. And what the hell was it? I give up but as I’m leaving I see a giant plaque, wordy and incomprehensible, I still can’t quite figure out the building’s original purpose. But then I’m surprised; it says the other sandstone structure to the left of the Taj was a mosque and was identical to this one except for the paraphernalia that would mark it as a mosque. I’m intrigued. Now we’re talking. I almost run past the tourists and the soldiers(terrorist, terrorist!) and head east. A giant pool glimmering with water sits in front of the mosque. I want to take wudu but it isn’t exactly secluded. I throw my sandals off again and climb the steps. There is a smile trying to break free, I’m trying to look cool but I’m excited, I hadn’t known about this place and here I was. All the other tourists walk past with no interest, I have it to myself. I step in, feet cooling on the floor. I don’t know where to look, everywhere there is something to marvel at: Quranic verses, prayers mats marked out in black marble and the rhythmic swish-swish of an old man sweeping the floor. I must look enraptured, feeling history and the familiarity of the house of God. I am finally moved and I sniff. The old man walks up to me and greets me. He must be the caretaker. He speaks to me in Hindi and shows me around the Mosque, reads the intricate verses, some indecipherable until he starts reading them and the complex squiggles wiggle themselves into familiar verses. And I grin. My very own tour guide in a Mosque I never knew existed. He points to one section, where the women pray. I want to pray but there is no way of getting wudu. Stupidly it never occurs to me that a tourist destination might have public toilets. He tells me the Taj is closed on Fridays and the Muslims come to pray. I follow him in a trance for some minutes as he points to this and that. When he finally leaves to continue with his sweeping, he leaves me tingling with romance. Oh, Ramadan Mubarak. Romance is in the air. Can you feel it?

I reserve my breath for my answer to Sheh ^what ever do u mean X? Is this reservation going to be temporary?

^waad taqaanaaye u choose not to use them.

Rahima, I have a high pain threshold. The slight kinkiness involved also made the initiation more bearable. It's about time the Aussies got involved. Now that they don't have the Ashes to concern themselves with.