Originally posted by Nur: No, walaal, not the innocent girls, the deviant teen only, you have to fix them like cats if they use their private organs for thinking instead of their heads, to drag far costlier problems home. Nur Frankly, truly and honestly with no mincing of words, I am utterly disgusted by your post. men were not seen as the culprits, just women. They still are by your account. There is NO choice here as u claim. Are u advocating dragging a sexually active teenager kicking and screaming to be mutilated? And the boy with him she had relations? What happens to him? Penis intact. Right. Fair. This is NOT how Islam would solve the problem. U're depending on the ways of the jahiliya to solve this social problem. I'm aghast.

Xoogsade, there's no shame in discussing the issue! NakuPenda, looool. That'll teach them to blush red.

well done, now make us proud.

Dhulkan aad jaceyl ou heysaan hada ayuu idiin baahanyahey. Ula taga ceydiina iyo habaar kiina. Cey meelna idinma geyneyso whether u're in dhulki or on the moon. Everybody stays away from a dirty mouth with a cautionary moral tale. Except others who use the same technique, which is why Sky and Tuj are bigging themselves up. Tuj, yr words should be deleted yet again. Even in Ramadan if u dare to call someone qashin after Sky has used worse language and was reminded not to, I wonder do u two not worry about your sawm or what? U can have a strong opinion without resorting to bad language and name-calling. And in this month of all months we must be on extra guard. Astaqfurulallah min kuli dambin cadiim.

^they look like the feet of Sesame Street muppets. Not cold enough in London to catch me in those.

Now that there's no more Frasier, I couldn't care less. I fancy Melbourne and Vancouver.

Baashi, u must be fan of the guy(DC). The last time u mentioned 'How to influence people..' I went in search of a copy I knew was around here somewhere. I couldn't find it, returned to the PC, looked down at its lower shelf and there it was under a pile of paperwork. Read most of it again and used some of the tips.

Stress- nature's lipo. My skirts are trailing the ground. I'm sure a lil home-made sambusa will pile on the pounds I've lost. I have in the past exercised during Ramadan- 2 hours after breaking fast. Now I prefer going to the prayers if I can- 2 hours' worth will keep u supple, not to mention all the reward u'll get, inshallah. ChocoandHoney, eat little when u break yr fast. A full belly leads to a sluggish body and mind.

Liibaan, I do not condone abortion(medical reasons aside). I do have sympthy for a young girl who finds herself in such a situation. How did I make the babies sound like garbage? 'Ridding themselves of a life' was a way of highligting the gravity of their act. Ceeb is a word I rarely use. I dislike the way it is used to explain without explaining.

U seem more concerned with their sexual activity(btw they did not get pregnant a la Mariam) than their ridding themselves of a life. I would never call anyone a whore sorry *** , ho, whatever. I DO have sympathy for they found themselves in a predicament that lead to a loss of life. Perhaps the impregnators refused to marry them; perhaps the girls couldn't deal with the CEEB of having a child outside of wedlock; perhaps it was a one-off sexual act; perhaps it didn't bother them morally; perhaps,perhaps... No woman that gets rid of a child forgets it. Who's to say this won't change them for the better? Love of religion? That again. Useful isn't it, in excusing anything. Who'll question that? Moi. Do better than that, mate. It's Ramadan.

Sky, were I a moderator on General I would have deleted your post. Akh.

Welcome to America, sheikh. Pre-occupation with ceeb, ceeb, ceeb; everywhere u go, there it is..

Abrar, that's beautiful. Saabir, the telephone woke me up yesterday from an intense dream. I was lectruing my parents on the virtue of patience. I was saying, 'We must have sabr, we must have sabr' while my father was telling me not to be so- some word I did't know the meaning of but which I took to mean, 'Chill, girl'. The night before that I saved a life in my dreams. getting waaaaay ahead of myself

This has become stubborn and repetitive. Put a tampon in it.

We can but give and pray. To Him is our return. Peace be upon them.

Vah vah.

Muhammad, I asked for that slyly. Thank you. May all your prayers be accepted. Pacifist, your neighbours are wrong to be inconveniencing you. If talking with them hasn't helped then something more pro-active may be in order. Complaining won't get u any further if they've already heard it before. I suggest u take them some food with a smile and confuse the life out of them. If they see u as real people(that do them good) they'll think twice about annoying u. I watched my father treat a bad neighbour with friendliness and while I thought he was selling us out at the time, I think he may have had something there. I've just returned from delivering food to my neighbour. She wasn't in unfortunately. But while I was standing outside her door I listened to another neighbour beat the living daylights out of his dogs again. I can't fathom what satisfaction there is to be gained from making a creature suffer so. While I can tolerate noise to some degree, next door animal abuse which echoes through the building is another matter. He thumps them, bashes them and they whimper and cry out in agony. It's amazing how human-like they sound in suffering. I have already told on this guy and have no qualms about it. I don't think I can sleep at night when I know I haven't tried to get those dogs away from him. What would all this fasting and prayer be for? I have spoken with him about his noise generally- drilling at night etc!- but this dog abuse I can't deal with face to face. I'm not sure I can disguise my disgust. Or that he can resist unleashing his dog-beating on me. I now find myself in the bizarre situation of praying for dogs regularly.

don't it always seem to go that u don't know what u got till it's gone

^I feel for you. I have spolied myself with home cooked meals and can not bear freezer/microwave fare.

Knaan turning into Hirsi. Ridiculous. So what did Knaan say at this conference u mention, Alle-ubaahne? Why don't u try and convince the sister instead of hoping she sees the light miraculously? U'd be doing all of us unfamous ones a service since the famous are too busy doing us an injustice and can't be relied upon to put aside their goals for us nobodies. Darn fame and what it does to heads.

Mate, are u so hungry u're seeing chicken in my posts? Not once have I mentioned either chicken or maraq or excessive basbaas in the recipes I've recommended. I've mentioned prawns, fish and yoghurt and fruit- not healthy enough? Are u weak from hunger this Ramadan or weak in comprehension all year round?

WOL, u make me want to move to TZ just for the food. Yum. To break my fast today I had: chopped apple and orange segents thrown into Greek yoghurt, Rose syrup(mixed with a touch of water) poured over the mixture. Very refreshing. For dinner I had: Thai Fish Curry It took me to Scrumsville, Gastronoma.

Thanks all. Yesterday on the full train carriage I spot 2 Muslim men. One stands at the other end, dressed like a Pakistani; the other sitting and closer to me wearing a black cap, perhaps an Arab. Sometimes I see Muslims and get the feeling they are better people than me(though they may not be). Something in their appearance or their face makes me want to do better. I think this again as I look at the two men. The one sitting is looking fixedly at nothing. He looks like Ramadan has given him a hug, his posture relaxed, face calm. I catch myself being fanciful again and try and think of the impending interview. I don't want to lie while I'm fasting. Do they really want to hear the truth? The man in the black cap suddenly jumps up and stirs me out of my thoughts. He looks at me and gestures for me to have his seat. Having not spoken out loud thus far that day, my voice comes out very quietly and over the rumble of the rolling train I doubt that he hears me say: I'm getting off the at the next stop, Shukran. My waving hand and shaking head help though and he looks down at the seat without sitting down. I know that he has offered me the seat because I'm a Muslim(there were others standing too). Perhaps Ramadan has hugged him afterall and here I was rejecting his spontaneous offer. He sits down finally. I must learn how to take if I'm going to encourage giving. My first instinct is to reject any offer; even as a girl I couldn't accept from my mother without a No first. It is more than a social habit. Something deeper lurks. Would anyone like to offer me something? For the practise, u see.

Good stuff. Not a boy in sight. LoL. Thanks WOL, I was hoping u'd get medical on us and you Rahima, I hear you, I agree, I agree, I agree.

There are patterns in one's life. I wanted to continue the food-giving I did last Ramadan this year. I found someone I can share my food with- an old lady neighbour who lives by herself and is arthiritis-stricken.. 2 days ago I'm dragging heavy bags full of fruit and veg for Ramadan(u would think there was a hurricane coming, I got so much) when I see her. We've never spoken before. I say peace be upon u dropping my load and she stops and responds. I tell her I am from No X, a neighbour. She talks back in Urdu and I realise she has very little English. I dig out my Urdu, blow the dust off and somehow get the message across that she can knock on my darwaza any time. She gets it, beams and surprises me by saying in English: I am happy. I grin, those three words like a balm on my orangutan arms. There are patterns in one's life. I had an interview this morning- a Ramadan gift, a job with more pay than I have ever had. The job isn't exactly what I was expecting; in fact I can't answer some of the questions they ask. I feel foolish and the effort of talking about myself for 40 mins without indulging in self-deprecation is draining. Still they like me, job or no job. I reach home and there are police vans outside. I stop and take a deep breath. Who did what? Two big policemen stand outside the door of another neighbour- a vulnerable man with an incurable disease(rumour has it) and a mental condition(pretty much substantiated). About 10 days ago we had to call the police in the middle of the night when someone was causing a huge racket. We hadn't realised it was the sick man and when the police arrived and asked him to stop, he did. The following day, we let relevant people know that this guy needed help. His flat's plumbing had gone kaput and his floors and carpets were soaked in human excrement that had also flooded out into the corridors. I tip-toed my way past his flat for days, skirt held high up not once knocking on his door. Back to today and the burly policemen with hands on hips. The sick man's door is wide open. I see the soiled carpet and the mess. Is he OK? I ask Nah, I'm afraid he's died. He's dead? Yeah I put the bags I'm carrying(just how much food can I buy?) down, sigh, talk with them and finally go home. I return a call and I'm told I have another interview somewhere else on Friday. There are patterns in one's life. Ignoring neighbours just has to stop. Half of an hour more and I can hug a cup of tea. God bless him.