J11 absolutely no substance to what you just said except just posh words with no actual point. Listen stop practising how to make your text eloquent and start making some hard crunching points. You provided no proof nor did you show any examples when christianity developed capitalism? Last time I checked the christian faith shared more similarities with the socialist based idealogy then capitalism. An example of this socialist trend is "feed the poor, cloth them with what you wear, in-fact the bible abhors wealthy men and says it's very difficult for wealthy men to reach heaven" in-fact their are some verses in the bible that clearly state "blessed are the poor for their is the kingdom of god". You made some note of Christian civilizations but provided no argument accept just waste of bandwidth. Sxb get back to me when you actually can learn to set a premise, provide a punch line and end with a conclusion. No amount of fancy words will make your argument stronger, the more simpler and straight forward you are the more minds you can convince.

J11. For goodness sake do you actually believe the west is christian civilization? lol that is like saying TURKEY is an islamic country. First of all son when the bible was used as a form of governance it happened during the dark-ages a period from the 12th-17th century. At that time witches were being burnt, jews exterminated in the inquisition, they were literally living in caves and sniffing each other backsides. Then came the renaissances which brought along a different form of governance which they literally stole from the muslims in islamic spain which was living through their golden age. However today they are advanced not because of the christian faith or bible, but due to capitalism and secularism. Secularism whole point is to separate government and church. You know what that means? that means to keep the bible out of government policies and decisions. If it wasn't for this the christians would never advance. They would still be in the dark ages if they dare use the bible as their form of governances. Thank secularism which saved the west, don't thank the bible which infact has proven if it is used will render ppl to stone-ages. Where-as muslims when ruling with the quran have proven to be successful in the past and advanced, it is only when they drop the quran for other forms of government they have remained backwards. It is totally comparison issues which you don't understand but I am sure the more educated will understand on SOL.

Sherban The nicene creed is an explanation of the holy trinity not the archbishop of canterbury. The trinity says that god comes in 3 persons which are separate yet equal but the 1 god. They try to justify this with analogies such as a tree with many branches. They insist that the tree is 1 but it has various branches. Therefore God is 1 with separate persons that work in communion for him. But like i said there is still problems with the trinity. 1. How can an eternal god die? Jesus is apparently God in the flesh as christians ascertain; So when jesus die who died exactly? Was it the man or god? The response i get from christians is either Jesus the man side died and not the god part of jesus. Well this problematic because jesus can not be sinless sacrifice with the spirit of god being present within him. If the spirit of god was not present within God he would just be a normal man. The spirit of God is what made jesus sinless according to christian belief. If the spirit of god didn't die on the cross, then no salvation is possible. Because only a man died and all men are born sinners according to their dogma, so in reality a sinner a died with that answer i get from christian. The other answer they give is "yes god died on the cross" and if that is the case then god can not die because this is against his eternal nature. Their is numerous areas of christianity that is problematic. Another example is the story of the adulterous woman who was brought before jesus and jesus remarked "throw the first stone if you are without sin to the audience at the time". This scenario is problematic. If jesus is saying throw the first stone if you are without sin, why did jesus not throw the first stone after-all he was sinless? if he didn't throw the stone because he forgave the adulterous woman, then that is problematic also because that would mean jesus sinned or transgressed against the law of moses which jesus had to live under according to jesus belief untill the sacrifice happened. When the sacrifice happened on the cross is when the law of moses was replaced with grace and forgiveness. But before that jesus was under the law of moses and needed to apply the law if he didn't he committed a transgression of the law and earned a sin. If jesus sinned, that means the salvation theory can not work because a sinner died on the cross and a sinner can't cleanse your sins according to the christian dogma. I can't sit here all day and list the various issues, their is issues with corruption also with the text. If u read the foot-notes of the bible you will find many verses were added later by the writer of the gospel. Their is issues of authorship and countless number of versions of the same "apparent story" of jesus. Why would God want to give the people 4 gospels that all conflict and say this is the final word of god? totally problematic. I mean I personally don't talk about religion on SOL, however I have read the bible and I personally can not accept that is the word of god with all these numerous problems.

Sherban their is only two possibilities. 1. God exists and therefore it's islam or 2. God doesn't exist and there is no way. It's either yes or no. After assesssing various evidences for god i have come to conclusion he does exist and after sound-proofing islam checking manuscripts like uthmanic and even the san'ca one i have come to the conclusion this religion has been well preserved. I however can never ever accept that God was buried for 3 days as the christians believe. I can not accept that God comes in 3 forms. I can't accept these things because it is against mere logic. For example: how can a limitless god who can not be contained, yet was contained in a mere body of jesus just like christians believe. The christians say "all the spirit of god dwelled in jesus" go read the bible sxb. Its just illogical the god with no limits now has limits which is in jesus body. These sort of things don't fall well on the logical people, only the jahils convert to christianity sxb.

Jacaylbaro, now that is none your bizness what the kings are going to do. But all i will say is the kings will adapt to the changing environment.

I would like a makhiri to answer. What was their reason for shutting the door on cade muse when he sought them first to render peace among puntland? Why did they so rudely and un-somali like refuse to sort out the beef that was occuring in 2002? This still amazes me till this day and if any makhiri can answer it would be appreciated. Ps: Mind you after the makhiris refused to participate in the peace process cade was forced to seek a neutral stakeholder boqor bur-madow. But he wouldn't if makhiris who are known fair did the somali like thing and brought about peace in puntland. The issue is resolved now, but i want to know what were their reasons for this dog-act? This cade sitting with the makhiris to get the beef sorted. He doesn't look very happy with the outcome, his arms are even crossed indicating he is not a happy-man.

Till this day the makhiris have not apologized for their un-somali hospitality. The kings are waiting for their apology still this day. Mudug ppl didn't apologize for breaking the constitution and extending abdullahi yusuf term illegally. The Sool ppl didnt apologize for giving support to someone breaking the constitution. The kings were justified 100% and everyone knows that. But brothers fight and make up and that is the great tradition of puntland. Today makhiri owned ETN TV and king owned SBC TV in bossaso are in fierce competition but its friendly competition. The makhiris are building a port, which will change the dynamics of puntland forever. The kings will realize that the Bossaso port they used to hold all clans under control with will be for-ever gone. But don't worry the kings are working on it and well known to adapt to changing conditions. The Las qoray port and Bossaso port are puntland and will be the economic house of puntland.

they killed just as many kings. when the kings asked shelter from the makhiris they shut the door on the kings. This is was the worst insult.

Like i said it's all settled now. The revenge was taken. As we all know somalia will be a place of revenge for every action. The kings don't have any old scores to settle. We are staunch puntland and want all our brothers to return to the multi-party democracy. This will solve the clan issues.

Jacaylbaro, I brought this up because dude Allah won't ask you what tribe you are in judgement day. Therefore don't go use tribalism to protect a kuffar. Wale war baa idin sugeyo saman akhaar!!! Bro How can you defend michael mariano or edna adan and the likes, how can support one who has embraced the unforgiveable sin "SHIRK" even if you insult Allah or the prophet, this is still forgiveable, omar ibn khattab used to insult the prophet so did many of the earlier sahaba before they embraced islam. Lakin sahib abu talib when he died with shirk, he has no place in heaven was the answer the prophet gave. Therefore separate tribe and god. God must come first not tribe. An enemy of god must be dealt with in the shariah way and hargeisa has failed in that respect HISTORICALLY and continue to FAIL in that aspect today. If you don't want my piece of advice, thats up to you but all i do is convey the message of islam.

Allah said in the quran that there is 1 thing he will never forgive. That is setting up partners with him, Christians set up partners with Allah. It is infact dubbed the "Trinity" where there is father-god, son-god, holy spirit-god all partners in a god-head. This sin is totally unforgiveable in islam and the worst sin possible. Where-as disbelief or atheism is forgiveable sin. Allah never said that sin is not forgiveable in the Quran. It is very well known christianity is the worst form of disbelief in islam due to its "shirk" where-as atheism has no "shirk" and therefore forgiveable. Second point is Atheism is based on science and following "real-world evidence", it is alot more realistical then say "god being a man" or "god being buried for 3 days" subhanallah. C'mon guys, your making yourselves look like a fool in this and like i said i dropped this subject, but don't think i dropped it because i can't refute you. I dropped it due to thankfulsp suggestion. It is hargeisa that is where kuffar live in peace, it is not in bossaso. Go to any imam and ask "what is like if someone protects kuffar" he will tell you that Allah said if someone who is muslim caught protecting kuffar that muslim city or people are deemed "ONE OF THEM" therefore hargeisa can be deemed "one of them" however bossaso can not be because ayan hersi dares not step there. War puntland is alot more religious then those god-less heathens in hargeisa, this is a culture that embarassed "las-geel" worship before the advent and arrival of a wonderful shaykh from zabid yemen who taught them islam and culture and civilization which they had no clue on. The colonialist came and saw that hargeisa was just a place of mud-huts with no sultanates as those built in the north-east or makhir. Colonialist viewed them as "savages" in burton book, war meeshaas wax ahayn jahilnimo laga ma haayo. They introduce khat and dirac to somali ppl. They had no civilization to note off and evidence to this is "why did the colonialist never note of a sultanate there" Guys guys guys, calm down before i really embarass you and that is not 1/4 of what I have to say. I just can't be bothered typing it all.

To be quite honest it is more realistic if someone is to leave islam, they leave all religion together. What is the point of worshipping a man as a god? in islam that is shirk and the unforgiveable sin. But Atheism is forgiveable. Lol like i said bro if you want to continue this discussion, hargeisa will come out second-best.

You know we all forget that 75% of somali populatons are usually under 35, yet no administration caters to this very important segment. It is quite mind boggling to be quite honest.

You know we all forget that 75% of somali populatons are usually under 35, yet no administration caters to this very important segment. It is quite mind boggling to be quite honest.

Hogaamiye Sare oo ka tirsan Jabhadda ONLF oo is dhiibay. October 19, 2009 Horseed Media News Desk Hogaamiye sare oo ka tirsan Jabhadda ONLF ee ka dagaalanta gudaha Wadanka Itoobiya ayaa lagu soo waramaaya in u isku dhiibay Dowlada Wadanka Itoobiya. Wakaalada Wararka ee AFP oo soo xigatay Masuuliyin ka tirsan Dowlada Itoobiya ayaa ku warantay in nin lagu magacaabo Cabdi Maxamed Aw Xassan oo ka mid ahaa Saraakiisha sar sare ee Jabhadda u maalinimada sabtida isu soo dhiibay Ciidamada Dowlada Itoobiya. Masuul ka tirsan Milateriga Itoobiya oo diiday in u magaciisa Saxaafada ka sheego ayaa Wakaalada AFP u sheegay in Hogaamiyahas ay ka soo qabteen Gobolka Ismaamulka Soomaalida ee Itoobiya isagoo oo sheegay in u watay walxaha qarxa. Masuulka ayaa hadalkiisa ku daray in sababta keentay in u isii soo dhiibo ay tahay in u diiday in u ka qayb qaato howlgal ay sii wadajir u wada fulin lahaayeen Kooxaha Al-Shabaab,ONLF iyo weliba Xukumada Eritrea oo ay ka samayn lahaayeen gudaha Wadamada Itoobiya iyo Soomaaliya,waa sida u hadalka u dhigay. Cabdi Maxamed Aw Xassan waxaa u madax ka ahaa isla markaana ahaa Taliyaha Milateriga ONLF ee degaanada Wardheer iyo Qoraxay ee Ismaamulka Soomaalida ee Itoobiya. Dowlada Itoobiya ayaa iyaduna sheegtay in ay ku soo guuleystay in degaanadaas ay ka soo qabato rasaas ay tankeedu gaarayaan 7,000 iyo waxyaabo kale oo Chemical ah. Jabhada ONLF ayaa waxaa ay hore u diiday in ay xirrir la leedahay Kooxda Al-shabaab ee ka dagaalanta gudaha Wadanka Soomaaliya. Horseed Media

Alot of you guys don't even know why the las canood incident happened. Cade was smart man because he realized that Abdullahi was trying to set up pan mudug-ssc team in puntland and take 50% of the seat for themselves. They have an agreement Abdullahi Yusuf and the ssc people to vote for each other candidates at respective election. Cade realized this is not in the interest of the kings and kicked started the action-plan. He used xabsade as the scapegoat because xaabsade sided with abdullahi yusuf in 2002 the war against the kings and then fired xaabsade knowing he will go to hargeisa and take away las canood from puntland. He got revenge on the makhiris also for not giving him refuge and siding with abdullahi yusuf in 2002 war against the king. Cade committed the majiyahan incident to kick-start them to go and form makhir. As for the mudug people during those time that region just went down into near-chaos with each of them popping one and another. Cade realized if he could remove these regions from puntland the kings will remain supreme in puntland politics and have 21 seats for their respective region of bari. Whilst mudug will be left with 10 seats and 9 seats for nugaal. Cade muse might not of been in the interest of your clans-men, but in puntland its dog-eat-dog and i commend cade muse taking his people into consideration after-all everyone else was just caring for their own people. So really it is irrelevant if you don't think cade did a good job or not as a leader. He sure cemented our clan as dominant and cutt us karkaar so we can separate funding on top of the funding for bari.

It is totally irrelevant bringing up ayan hersi because ayan hersi doesn't live in puntland nor can she. Just like salman rushdie can't live in iran. These are respective muslim regions because they back up their words with actions. Can the same be said with hargeisa? 1. Michael mariano successful politician and a christian 2. Edna adan foreign minister and lives in peace with her people 3. Now this guy in jail and countless others in the west who are christian and from hargeisa. If anyone from puntland leaves islam, believe me son they don't go worship jesus, they become atheists. Christianity is simply for the ppl of hargeisa, puntland ppl dont even like that faith. They will follow science if anything other then islam. So don't ever think u will ever hear a christian puntland person, just never will happen.

nuune are you from puntland?

I love botswana, it is infact one of my favourite countries in Africa. I love their zero tolerance to corruption, infact at their airport it says "corruption free-state".

Alot of the haters of cade muse try to slide away the accomplishments this man achieved for the state. Please read this Puntland in Progress report and see the hard statistics and comparisons from 98 till 2007. Statistics Don't lie. http://mopicpl.com/PIP%20Final.pdf

Dhubad yes she is a christian...you should read the book "WAR DESTROYS, PEACE NURTURES" Authored by Edna Adan Ismail, Richard Ford, and Hussein M. Adam She clearly speaks of her religion being for jesus and that she works with muslims and they all just get along fine and so so forth.

It is funny they arrest this individual for practising christianity, yet reward edna adan as hero of hargeisa yet edna adan is practising christian and lives safely among her people. Disturbing trends for hargeisa, infact if we were to be technical we could declare hargeisa as not apart of the islamic world. Why? Because if they don't apply the shariah law on edna adan for apostating and becoming a christian and reward this murtad with foreign minister roles which she held under egal administration then it would be safe to say it is not islamic city. Edna Adan today lives safely among her people, why? she is converting many people at her edna adan maternity ward which was funded by christian aid groups in America. Why doesn't anyone say anything to her? AHHHHHHHH, there comes the hypocrisy in hargeisa. And that hypocrisy can prove without a shadow of doubt that their not muslim. Even back in the colonial days "michael mariano" was a practising christian in waqoyi galbeed and also was a politician. Imagine that huh!!!

Imprisoned Christian in Somaliland on Hunger Strike Simba Tian Compass Direct News October 19, 2009 NAIROBI, Kenya (CDN) — A convert from Islam in Somalia's self-declared state of Somaliland has staged a hunger strike to protest his transfer to a harsh prison in a remote part of the country. Osman Nour Hassan was arrested on Aug. 3 for allegedly providing Christian literature in Pepsi village, on the outskirts of the breakaway region's capital city, Hargeisa. On Sept. 9 authorities transferred him from Hargeisa to Mandere prison, 60 kilometers (37 miles) away - a difficult, week-long trip for visitors that is expensive by Somali standards. "Hassan is in really terrible shape," a Christian source told Compass. "He is very discouraged." In August the Muslims who accused Hassan met with his family, also Muslim, and agreed that Islamic teachers, or sheikhs, should go to see him in jail to advise him on Islamic doctrine. Two sheikhs met him in the police station cell and implored him to stop spreading Christianity. Hassan refused. "His family together with the sheikhs requested the prison to make his situation more harsh, as a form of punishment, with the hope that he would recant the Christian faith and return to Islam," said the source on condition of anonymity. "So far the family has been silent about Hassan's situation and gives him no support." Promotion of any religion other than Islam in Somaliland is prohibited, contrary to international standards for religious freedom such as Article 18 of the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 5(1-2) of the Somaliland constitution states that Islam is the state religion and prohibits the promotion of any other faith, according to the U.S. Department of State's 2008 International Religious Freedom Report, and Article 313 outlines penalties for Muslims who change their religion. Authorities have thwarted efforts to secure an attorney for Hassan by insisting that he cannot appeal his sentence, the source said. No Christian has ever tried to address a religious rights violation through the courts in Somaliland, he said. "He is in need of a lawyer to help him, which seems not forthcoming," he said. "But he cannot be allowed the right to a defense anyway. He feels neglected, so he rejected to eat food to protest the mistreatment." Local authorities have embarked on a crackdown of underground Christians in the predominantly Muslim area, according to three Somaliland Christians who have fled the country. Several underground Christians have either been killed, arrested or fled their homes as Islamists try to stop the clandestine distribution of Bibles, sources said. Hassan was accused of providing Christian literature to a village Muslim boy, who later showed it to his family and friends. The boy's Muslim family reported the incident to the police, sources said, leading to the arrest of the 29-year-old Hassan. "His stand is that he had only one Christian material in his possession for learning purposes and not for spreading the faith," the Christian source said. "Hassan needs a lawyer to advocate for his case, because [for someone who was once Muslim] to practice Christianity in Somaliland or another religion apart from Islam is illegal." In spite of his discouragement, Hassan recently said he is adhering to Christ. "I still belong to Jesus," he said. "I know one day I'm sure I will be released, and my physical health is okay, but psychologically I feel very anxious and stressed. Please continue praying for me." Copyright 2009 Compass Direct News.

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5 years later you will hear the same thing "new electoral commission" the "election is coming soon" and blah blah blah. Hargeisa is now the adal empire whether any of you want to accept that or not is irrelevant because rayale is not asking for your input. Somafiland will never hold an election it failed to do so 3 times and rayale won't start holding it any-time soon. Even if he does which is very slim chance, he will just rigg it for him to win.