waryaarahee

Originally posted by Hamile: waryaahee ali bahar tusbax waxaan ku odhan lahaa cabqari soo daah inna abti abdul sow kan kuu qeexay eraygaa he say in the article {It is time to acknowledge that we all have been trapped in Theseus Paradox! Today’s Somalia is not the Somalia that once was.} ina abti baroo ka baadh internetka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_and_change he is more right he is against ignoring of the somaliland he expaliand the theses parodox {Most planners, analysts and international players face the Theseus Paradox when dealing with the issue of Somalia. Today’s reconfigured new realities are not fully recognized and appreciated by the interaction al community and Somali politicians alike. For instance Somaliland and Puntland are realities to contend with yet there is no any effort on the part of the international community to involve these quasi-states in the efforts to find a solution to the Somali problem qabbilkuna wuxuu yidhi make the difreent qabiils create government he say never tell the qabiil to make like the muqdisho government becose difirent qabiil can make better government then muqdisho government hays cabudhin inna abti ooda ka qaad agendaha hadalkaagu ma burcadnimo iyo muqdishaa intaadan eray odhan inna geeldoona bal ka waran ? http://wardheernews.com/Books_09/Ismail_A_Ismail/15_Excerpt_gov_ismail.pdf The story of governance in Somalia since independence demonstrates beyond doubt the centrality of the clan system and its preeminence over any other system which may operate under the label of “parliamentary democracy” or “Islamic rule.” The clan system had provided in ages past what Professor Lewis called a “pastoral democracy.” It is well known in the science and art of management and public administration that behind the façade of the formal organization there is an informal organization that is invariably more effective than the formal one. The clan system represents that informal organization, and it is not, therefore, something that cannot be applied to modern conditions

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax: Paragon, One parochial look at an aspect of the somali society, i.e, clan, and suddenly Abdul has found fodder for the enticing 'irreversibility' theroy he so fondly talks about. And he is trying to intimidate readers that if they challenge the relevance of the theories he likes to the somali situation, then they are challenging Science itself!! . DEKA WROTE Yet Abdul Ahmed III and his colleague’s seminal work on irreversibility of human social organizations, its dynamics, entropy, and political orientations is neither pure science nor a credible social science. This theory has been tested in our physical/environmental world, but yet to be proofed in our SOCIAL WORLD. ABDUL REPLY There is a large contemporary scientific work dealing with irreversibility in social sciences. These include social and historical dynamics by Edgar Zilser in 1930s, The study of irreversibility has started in mid 19th century. There is an ample literature that shows the use of these concepts in economics, physics, social science, evolutionary biology and anthropology. For instance Hadamard studied sensitivity of initial conditions, Comte suggested the idea of social physics as early as 1820s. Even the use of irreversibility in environment is related to sociology and social dynamics in a socio-ecological system. It is social dynamics that affects the environment, be it carbon emissions or desertification, or fisheries were the concept of collapse and irreversibility are more intuitive. Ismael must acknowledge that Irreversibility is NOT invented by the writer R Carson.! - Did Carson popularize it for the general public? may be for the non scientist! But in that case Ismail shouldn't make such historically inaccurate statements. DEKA WROTE No one can save us from people like Lenin or Karl Mark to fashion a superficial economic or social ideas that alter geopolitical landscapes of the world. Similarly, capitalism world of extreme nationalism in yesteryear is now promoting globalization and borderless society. Contrary to Abdul Ahmed III’s irreversibility theories, we have seen French dominance under Napoleon; the rule of Holy Roman Empire ; and the Prussian principalities in Europe that all reverted back to tribal living arrangement under the banner of nation building with the new inventions of flags and demarked borders. ABDUL REPLY Ideas and thought on how to govern exhibit irreversibility traits. This is contrary to Ismail's claims that ideas are not physical entities that cannot be subject to evolutionary concepts. In fact ideas evolve spread and change; evolution of some ideas and public opinions such as (regionalism in the former Somalia) get to a point where it becomes the dominant public opinion and perhaps a policy that becomes irreversible! Such policies may simply emanate from individual clan affinity and perhaps even an unconscious deeply held clan trait (regardless of whether it seems logical or fair to others). No one can make Northern Somali States fall in love with a centralized regime based in Mogadishu!. I recommend an extensive literature review on evolution and spread of ideas - Ismail would be amazed to discover that ideas behave much like fashions and fads - amusing but true!

waryaahee ali bahar tusbax waxaan ku odhan lahaa cabqari soo daah inna abti abdul sow kan kuu qeexay eraygaa he say in the article {It is time to acknowledge that we all have been trapped in Theseus Paradox! Today’s Somalia is not the Somalia that once was.} ina abti baroo ka baadh internetka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_and_change he is more right he is against ignoring of the somaliland he expaliand the theses parodox {Most planners, analysts and international players face the Theseus Paradox when dealing with the issue of Somalia. Today’s reconfigured new realities are not fully recognized and appreciated by the interaction al community and Somali politicians alike. For instance Somaliland and Puntland are realities to contend with yet there is no any effort on the part of the international community to involve these quasi-states in the efforts to find a solution to the Somali problem qabbilkuna wuxuu yidhi make the difreent qabiils create government he say never tell the qabiil to make like the muqdisho government becose difirent qabiil can make better government then muqdisho government hays cabudhin inna abti ooda ka qaad agendaha hadalkaagu ma burcadnimo iyo muqdishaa intaadan eray odhan inna geeldoona bal ka waran ? http://wardheernews.com/Books_09/Ismail_A_Ismail/15_Excerpt_gov_ismail.pdf The story of governance in Somalia since independence demonstrates beyond doubt the centrality of the clan system and its preeminence over any other system which may operate under the label of “parliamentary democracy” or “Islamic rule.” The clan system had provided in ages past what Professor Lewis called a “pastoral democracy.” It is well known in the science and art of management and public administration that behind the façade of the formal organization there is an informal organization that is invariably more effective than the formal one. The clan system represents that informal organization, and it is not, therefore, something that cannot be applied to modern conditions

http://www.hiiraan.com/op2/2010/jan/saving_somalia_theseus_paradox.aspx Trapped in fantasy of a political settlement and/or unified statehood, many Somali affairs scholars, policy makers, journalist and politicians seem to be locked in a failing approach to constitute a lasting settlement. This is in part because of their overemphasis on forming a unified, centralized, Somali National Government. It is a fanciful thing to dream about formulating a lasting solution to the protracted Somali crisis, particularly one that calls for a centralized national government. But analysts and scholars are not alone; in fact international policy makers tend to further very similar goals without understanding and/or appreciating the fundamental social origins of the Somali problem. They justifiably but erroneously perceive Somalia as a single monolithic nation-state in need of international support to reconstitute a central authority. In the following paragraphs, I attempt to point out (1) the obsolete paradigm with which the Somali problem is often viewed and analyzed. (2) Rationality of collective clan behavior and its impact on statehood (3) the mismatch of clan based morality with statehood (3) and (4) Feasible policy options for the post collapse era. Since last 20-years, the clan social system and its political implication was either ignored or misunderstood. It may be misunderstood as is manifested by the power sharing schemes that were designed for Somali groups to share power since 1991 which only resulted in 15 failed governments. More importantly, policy makers and the international players may be using an obsolete model of Somalia. Perhaps Somalia of 2010 is not the same as the Somalia of 1990; Is this Theseus Paradox ? But prior to casting Today’s Somalia as an obsolete model let us examine how and what drives the evolution of Somali politics. Is it the clan system? Is it the need for a nation-state?

oh you are just talking I thing abdul talk about mistakes and emotion of Bahar also this man ismail is same like abdul topic i thing he is saying the true read here http://wardheernews.com/Books_09/Ismail_A_Ismail/15_Excerpt_gov_ismail.pdf The story of governance in Somalia since independence demonstrates beyond doubt the centrality of the clan system and its preeminence over any other system which may operate under the label of “parliamentary democracy” or “Islamic rule.” The clan system had provided in ages past what Professor Lewis called a “pastoral democracy.” It is well known in the science and art of management and public administration that behind the façade of the formal organization there is an informal organization that is invariably more effective than the formal one. The clan system represents that informal organization, and it is not, therefore, something that cannot be applied to modern conditions

Abdul wax loo xaqiraa meesha ma yaal. Wa nin mutacalim ah oo si fiican wax u qoray. In fact, waxa uu meesha la shir-yimid waa wax aan micno lahayn, but he has the ability to make an issue of a non-issue. [/QB] This man is same like abdul topic i thing he is saying the true http://wardheernews.com/Books_09/Ismail_A_Ismail/15_Excerpt_gov_ismail.pdf The story of governance in Somalia since independence demonstrates beyond doubt the centrality of the clan system and its preeminence over any other system which may operate under the label of “parliamentary democracy” or “Islamic rule.” The clan system had provided in ages past what Professor Lewis called a “pastoral democracy.” It is well known in the science and art of management and public administration that behind the façade of the formal organization there is an informal organization that is invariably more effective than the formal one. The clan system represents that informal organization, and it is not, therefore, something that cannot be applied to modern conditions

This man is same like abdul topic i thing he is saying the true http://wardheernews.com/Books_09/Ismail_A_Ismail/15_Excerpt_gov_ismail.pdf The story of governance in Somalia since independence demonstrates beyond doubt the centrality of the clan system and its preeminence over any other system which may operate under the label of “parliamentary democracy” or “Islamic rule.” The clan system had provided in ages past what Professor Lewis called a “pastoral democracy.” It is well known in the science and art of management and public administration that behind the façade of the formal organization there is an informal organization that is invariably more effective than the formal one. The clan system represents that informal organization, and it is not, therefore, something that cannot be applied to modern conditions

Kismaayu adeer maxaa ku yaal

Originally posted by Ducaysane: quote:AT &T Posted: Gedo team'na wuxuu ku yidhi " Fadlan Kaadka aad gashatay wuu dhacay ee dib u top up garayso". War nin yohow Gado daan aad naga daba wadid maad naga daysid. reer Kismaayo noogu yeer. Waryaahee kaagan wareersan, reer muqdisho hadaanu kugu yeedhno bal ka waran Doqonyahay, Odaygii adigaa dayacoo dawarsi doontee dadka maxaa kugu didhay Doqonyahay, adigaa dawarsi doontee, dameeraha maxaa wax kuugu dadhay Doqonyahay dadka doorkiis adigaa diidayee xoorka mxaa ku biday

waryaa Tusbax deka ma ina tusbax baa mise waabaa bahar qudhiisa tusbax ma ali baa

He says Somalia should be disolved Somaliland is not his main concern. i thing he wants solution for all somaliya south north somaliland puntland and jiniland somali

looool waryaahee maxaa tidhi, The other funny ones where markuu rer-midnimo-diid ka hadlayey oo uu yidhi "Fadlan adeega aad dalbatay (aqoonsi buu u jeedaa) lama hayo".

Maakhiri ibn xalaal soomali ha is raacdo

waa war wanaagsan i gal ee ka deg hadalka

Waryaahee Tusbah waa kan post-modern Why I am Not a Postmodernist by Edward R. Friedlander, M.D. I am concerned here only with the use of the word "postmodernism" as it usually gets used in rhetoric http://www.pathguy.com/postmod.htm

sow kaagan mar ba meel ku duula why you ignore the mistakes of deka. he answer the mistakes that is why he talk about science because deka made mistake the man answered all of you waad xaqiraysaaye

so you have no agenda? you defend bahar and deka for qabiil reasons i know also you never follow the debate you ignore the mistakes of bahar and deka and you have no agenda ? i thing man you are same like the tribalist people abdul talk about

he answer to bahar you are not following the debate

i am surprise tusbax you are just saying he is wrong i thing you hate the man for qabiil reason

i am surprise tusbax you are just saying he is wrong i thing you hate the man for qabiil reason

This is good practical solution for Somalia

Abtigiis & Tusbax You are not following the debate. it is clear try to read it again Deka says At the outset, Science of irreversibility is new to anthropologist and other social studies as a subject and as discipline.... Abdul says Contrary to the misleading assertions of Ismail, the idea of irreversibility appears almost in every aspect of life from physical science, social science, governance, commerce and technology and more. It has helped companies and governments realize the affects of their policies. Therefore the validity of our study in using concepts related to irreversible process would be the least to worry about for Ismail. (I wouldn’t solicit Ismael’s advice). Nonetheless, as a consequence of the incorrect assertions about the applicability of concept of irreversible processes, Ismail must now climb higher peaks! Ismail must revoke at least couple of Nobel Prizes that directly or indirectly used irreversibility concept in dealing with social dynamics in economics and geo-politics. If not then, Ismael must note that Science is NOT a statement of belief, it is methodical NOT casual It is procedural and follows a well prescribed conventions he is very clear , he reply to deka mistakes Abtigiis & Tusbax wake up man

waryaahee you say, All that Somalia needs is money. Even the seemingly hapless TFG can impose itself and turn into credible government if properly funded. ? that is sophisticated you think ? I thing abdul is smart man, he point out true things. he showed the lies of other people against him. you are scared of the true in somaliya.

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Former Somalia By Abdul Ahmed III Nov 07, 2009 My recent articles about the Former Somalia are NOT the cause of the collapse of what use to be Somalia (1960-1991). The articles document and verified that the collapse of the former Somalia is real and irreversible. However, some recent articles on WardheerNews keep propagating a fictional notion that my colleagues and I intend to dissolve “the de-facto partitioned former Somalia”. Some even contend that the study is somehow unfair to the Somali people. In the following paragraphs, I attempt to guide these authors to the reality of the collapse. I intend to hold them accountable for some of their technical mistakes and in the process help clarify number of misconceptions that they may so obsessively hold dear. There is a fine line between dogma and lunacy, a line that could be easily crossed by anyone whose objectives are based on creed and not the command of science! Anyone can argue any absurdity in this age of “internet facilitated news/opinion” outlets. One can actually argue that rooster crowning is the reason for the daily rise of the sun, even create a web-site called Here Comes the Sun- (perhaps even embed the Beatles song of the same name). It may look real to some but it certainly is not a scientific argument. In the following sections, I would like to further elaborate the above statements with specific reference to the Articles of M Heebaan and Deka Ismail. In doing so I also would have to acknowledge many eloquent articles such as those by Abdul-Aziz Mohammed. While I may disagree with AbdulAziz Mohamed in one way or another, I thank him and respect his reasoning and professionalism. 1-Authorship and Intellectual Courtesy: Heebaan’s Point Examined The fact that Dr Britt and I collaborated on some work is not uncommon in academia nor should it be an issue as Heebaan would like to think!. Please note that in most academic and research institutions, faculty/research teams collaborate on various projects, often bringing together faculty members from various departments. In the United States, projects are led by a Principal Investigator(s) and are supported by number of research collaborators. Any report they produce is coauthored by all those who contributed. It is not uncommon to see number of authors on a report. 2-Heebaan and Ismail’s Generalities Generalities are an intellectual ally of the amateur, the non-specialist, someone who knows about a given subject but doesn’t quite specialize in that area/subject!. Generalities include among other things lack of crisp and detailed reasoning such as broad statements that mask depth of knowledge. It is convenient to hide behind broad statements! This is because often vague generalities employ presuppositions that are inevitably wide in scope and elegant in obscuring any plausible logical progression of arguments from a sound premise to a verifiable conclusion. This approach can work quite well for preachers or politicians running for office! It however fails miserably under scrutiny in scholarly circles and intellectual discussions. Broad general statements fail because it is not enough to explain intricacy of any given issue by just floating generic statements (however well meaning they may be). Such generalities are therefore relegated to discussions such as phenomenological debates. (Not necessarily philosophy but certainly not scientific). It also is weird and unheard of to see a critique of any published scientific work being solely on the basis on personal believes and/or metaphysical arguments. In principle a scientific arguments/findings are distinctly different from metaphysical statements that are not verifiable. This has been settled and accepted during the Astro-German debates on philosophy and science. It is therefore irrelevant for me to entertain Heebaan’s idea of “positive regionalism” and “negative regionalism”. With the definitions provided by Heebaan, these terms are informative linguistically but they are technically void. Similarly Ismail’s long article seems to be elementary by lumping together tales of metaphysics, misleading claims on science and many other outlandish arguments. Most of these claims are indeed insignificant to the dynamics of collapse of what use to be Somalia as I will explain throughout the article. Another important point is the abuse of technical terms. For Instance, the use of technical terms “Cooperation and Conflict” are well defined in mathematics upon which our study is based. But Conquest and the re-incarnation of Marshal Titto are not scientific. This is indeed a blunder, it is revealing and it represents the essence of Ismail’s article ! An authority, be it an institutional or a knowledgeable person usually refrains from misuse of terms and broad general statements of condemnation in science. But that is the ethics of research, scientific debate and that may not be true for Somali politics which I am not interested to engage here. Moreover, The reckless use of terminology should be a bigger issue to rectify for Ismail. It is wrong to use terms unconventionally unless the person doesn’t know the term he/she is using (inadvertent fraud). For instance, Ismail calls my data skewed data; the term “Skewed” is statistical term that has a specific use and could be used to only something that you have VISUALLY or ANALYTICALLY confirmed to be deviating from a well defined point. It is NOT just a casual phrase to be used to justify one’s goal at any cost. 3- The Irreversible Collapse It is illogical to debate the facts on the ground; rejection of facts should not justify the constant attempts of Heebaan and Ismail to identify individual authors as the enemy to contend with. It is redundant for me to reiterate what I said more than once (but may be redundancy would help here). So I reiterate, I do NOT have the intention NOR the means to divide the former Somalia. The collapse is somehow complete,The de-facto partition was accomplished by the Somali people! It is the Somali people who destroyed what was once a nation state. Therefore any undue blame and debate about these facts is just a nostalgic! A fantasy of return to the past! As any nostalgia this is at best impractical because if nothing else “the arrow of time is irreversible”! Please note that It is grace to acknowledge the truth that what was once a Somali nation state is NO MORE! 4- Trade and Economy in the former Somalia Empirical data from early 1990s to 2009 shows a continual deterioration of trade and economic relationships between “the South and “Puntland” and “the south and Somaliland”. Most recent data shows that importation of agricultural products that often tied the north to the south is almost negligible to non-existent. (We account for zero shipments from the south to Puntland in 2009). There is also limited trade between “Puntland and Somaliland”, Puntland and with the Somali inhabited areas in Ethiopia. The idea of a strong economic ties or free trade connecting all areas of the Somali peninsula is unsubstantiated claim. The suggestion that there is more trade in the post collapse era between Puntland and the South or Somaliland and the South may not be the case. In fact there is NO any RELIABLE comparative data or comparative studies evaluating the pre-collapse level of trade and post collapse economic activity. I dispute Ismail’s fabrications!. Ismail must document the claim that today’s trade is far more robust than pre-collapse era!. This again may be another careless imaginary tale! (A tale to justify anything at any cost). In fairness, any and all authors have the right to explain their points (however vague), they have every right to conduct studies that contradict any findings. However No author has any right whatsoever to fabricate facts or unfairly insult others just for the sole purpose of advancing their idea, opinions, desires regardless of how beautiful their ideas may seem to them. !. Similarly, the entire premise of Heebaan that Ethiopia is a land locked country dependent on the former Somalia is untrue. Economic activities are determined by mutual dependencies and shared economic interests. Please note that even when Eritrea was integral part of Ethiopia, the port of Djibouti was available and often used by Ethiopia. I do not have any data that shows economic collapse of Ethiopia because of Eritrea’s independence in 1990s. (for that matter any country in the world). These arguments about Ethiopia are of course NOT a subject I am most interested in. However since Heebaan continually uses these examples it would be good for him to justify Djibouti’s direct trade relations with Ethiopia. It is also fair to ask Heebaan to quantify many other implicit claims that accuse Somaliland and Puntland. I am sure the residents of the North would prefer ties with a friendly state than an occupying army of Jihadists (even if they may claim to be ethnic brotherhood of being Somali). 5- Canonical Errors : Ismail’s Claims It is hardly the hallmark of a learned person to throw sweeping statement condemning a research to be unscientific! It is NOT common to see a prudent individual announcing flawed judgment about origins of scientific concepts particularly if one doesn’t know those concepts or their historical development well enough. Such injudicious statements are almost always a reflection of the person that makes them. It takes credentials and scholarly authority to refute any findings. But it takes even more than that (more than one person more than few scholars) to condemn any work as non-scientific. It is very uncommon that a published work is so casually indicted to be unscientific; For it goes through panels prior to its publication. Any critic would know better or publish works that contradict the work they intend to critique. Similarly, the unqualified questioning of social dynamics and irreversibility is surprising. One could ask about certain parameters and factors but cannot casually question well known scientific concepts. The study of irreversibility has started in mid 19th century. There is an ample literature that shows the use of these concepts in economics, physics, social science, evolutionary biology and anthropology. For instance Hadamard studied sensitivity of initial conditions, Comte suggested the idea of social physics as early as 1820s. Even the use of irreversibility in environment is related to sociology and social dynamics in a socio-ecological system. It is social dynamics that affects the environment, be it carbon emissions or desertification, or fisheries were the concept of collapse and irreversibility are more intuitive. Ismael must acknowledge that Irreversibility is NOT invented by the writer R Carson.! – Did Carson popularize it for the general public? may be for the non scientist ! But in that case Ismail shouldn’t make such historically inaccurate statements. There is also a large contemporary scientific work dealing with irreversibility in social sciences. These include social and historical dynamics by Edgar Zilser in 1930s, the present-day rigorous work on of historical dynamics by Turchin. The earlier work on Economics by Veblen and various works in Anthropology by many researchers including Oschinsky. Modern studies in finance and uncertainty conducted by many researchers including Ben Bernanke. Social interaction and Game theory by Thomas Schelling, studies on neighborhood dynamics by Jiang and technological marketing by Arthur. Contrary to the misleading assertions of Ismail, the idea of irreversibility appears almost in every aspect of life from physical science, social science, governance, commerce and technology and more. It has helped companies and governments realize the affects of their policies. Therefore the validity of our study in using concepts related to irreversible process would be the least to worry about for Ismail. (I wouldn’t solicit Ismael’s advice). Nonetheless, as a consequence of the incorrect assertions about the applicability of concept of irreversible processes, Ismail must now climb higher peaks! Ismail must revoke at least couple of Nobel Prizes that directly or indirectly used irreversibility concept in dealing with social dynamics in economics and geo-politics. If not then, Ismael must note that Science is NOT a statement of belief, it is methodical NOT casual It is procedural and follows a well prescribed conventions 6- On Ideas, Political Opinions and Political Organization One of the arguments of Ismail was why does Europe want to unite now when as late as 50-years back the Europeans fought bitter wars? The logical response to that question is that United Europe doesn’t reverse any preceding state of affairs! Europeans have gradually evolved politically and economically without “central command” as Heebaan and Ismael would love to force on Somali people. They have evolved through decentralized natural evolution to a common interest! Moreover Ideas and thought on how to govern exhibit irreversibility traits. This is contrary to Ismail’s claims that ideas are not physical entities that cannot be subject to evolutionary concepts. In fact ideas evolve spread and change; evolution of some ideas and public opinions such as (regionalism in the former Somalia) get to a point where it becomes the dominant public opinion and perhaps a policy that becomes irreversible! Such policies may simply emanate from individual clan affinity and perhaps even an unconscious deeply held clan trait (regardless of whether it seems logical or fair to others). No one can make Northern Somali States fall in love with a centralized regime based in Mogadishu!. I recommend an extensive literature review on evolution and spread of ideas – Ismail would be amazed to discover that ideas behave much like fashions and fads – amusing but true! 7- Somaliland: A Shining Star While I do not support or oppose Somaliland’s secession, I must admit that Somaliland is a shining star of hope in the Somali peninsula and an example of a good locally driven democratic system for all Africa. They have started from scratch and built on the goodwill of the local communities, the traditional clan leaders. They have perfected the art of negotiations and settling of differences. This is particularly important because while there may be political differences between the parties and the leaders (may be even some clans), yet there is stable political, social order and fairly well established liberties for all the residents of Somaliland including those who may and may not agree with the State and/or the government. Ismail’s suggestion that some protestors waved the flag of the Former Somalia is just an evidence that in Somaliland people are free to protest. (We burn Flags in the US !). Somaliland’s system is an exemplary democratic system that must be an aspiration for all those who care for the Former Somalia. While Ismail’s implicit message that some clans may choose to remove themselves from Somaliland is a plausible. Yet such desires do NOT necessarily restore the former Somalia nor do they change the de-facto end of what use to be Somalia. Ismail’s point however supports my conclusions that clan self-segregation is central to Somali political organization and can only be dealt with through clan based consultation such as the Guurti system of Somaliland. Here is the link http://wardheernews.com/Articles_09/Nov/06_former_somalia_abdul.html