Dhubad, I journeyed this place between Kismayo and Dhobley with a large convoy of vehicles back in the days. It is a complete jungle, yet vehicles were penetrating with huge risk. I very much think that Government troops backed by Ethiopian troops were halted with heroic proportions, which even led to the Air strike intervention. The country is full of caverns which might serve as lurking places. So the whole aim of these constant air strikes is raze these tropical forests to the ground and make suspected fugitives visible from their hideouts for easy target. However, these air strikes are inflicting destruction to the country folks and their animals.

Lol@ Horn, you always dig up some spine-tingling news and archives that send supercharged messages

You should really write more of uniting Somalis than for disintegrating them. You are secessionists who is gravely burdened by the possibility of a viable government in the South. I don't want to parrot Duke's request, but it is time that you address Riyale and his cohorts that have kept deluding you guys into believing that you have a state of your own and that is completely detached from any connextion whatsoever with Somalia.

Caano Geel, I apologize should you take it that I was making a mockery of the silence of your voice as a seal of approval during the reign of the warlords in Mogadisho and the Deep south. "Let me ask you what 'tribal elder' represented you, what interests did they profess for you, did they say something about the your education, your childrens, your health, your rights, or did they discuss dhulka iyo maalka ey iyaga xakumaan?" No they didn't, but there is no gainsaying the warlords held our society as their hostage for the last 16 years and they all do share the blame of the calamity that befell on our people altho I deeply beleive Somalia's collapse or degenration into this status next to irreversible damage was the effect of a long-standing malicious scheme. From the time of Scientific Socialism to SNA's invasion of that strip of land in Ethiopia, our country and its economic system and our people's moral obligation to their country were on a swift decline due to a deep seated wedge that rests on nepotism and corruption created by the old regime instead of stepping between groups at variance, and the external meddling of our affairs. I am also aware of Abdullahi Yusuf as the Jean Martinet of Somalia, the more fanatic drillmaster France had ever seen during the reign of King Louis. We might digress here to investigate how far the current presidnet of Somalia could be implicated in the alleged killings of civilians caught at the cross fire between him and his contenders. However, Abdullahi was not a man who would install road blocks and raid one clan unceasingly , but he is a man who values a system or the philosophy of governing a country. Puntland is a case in point. His further pursuit to become a Somali president attests to the evidence that he stood for his principle since he rebeled against the last regime. More importantly, he is, to a great extent and with enthusiasm, willing to stabilize Mogadisho and build up an adminstration that caters to the needs of the public. I give paramount importance to the stability of the country.

Originally posted by Brown: quote:Now, the United States is engaged in Somalia again. This time, its goals and tactics are more limited _ chasing Islamic terrorists So, Let me ask the chief[Doorknob] here, You seriously and honestly believe that there are ALQAEDA operatives in Southern Somalia,precisly in Afmadow,Dhoobley & the entire waamo region??? A simple Yes or No please..do not go on with usual verbal diarehea eh? I knew again this was going to happen. Brother I briefly analyzed the fate of the innocent people before this air strikes were to begun. http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=008268;p=2#000017

I believe in practice, honest self-disclosure. You can look at the major districts of Sool, from Buhodle to Xudun, to Las Anod, to Taleex. Whose authority adminsters these districts? If they would at least govern one district, i would concur with your notional claim. Ainabo is a contested district and does not fall within the complete realm of the secessionists. Locals have repeatedly indicated that their recourse, should differences arise, must be limited to the deliberation of the Council of Elders.

Alle U Baahne, every Somali is not an outsider of that issue as this is a Somalia issue but since our country has returned to the state of nature as in the past whereby every clan shifted for itself, my political stance is that Rer Sool and Sanaag have given their allegiance to Puntland in which they were part of its many formation. "Somaliland" is a local level adminstration and any major clan can set up hastily an adminstration to accomodate their displaced families. The UN will assist you if you can furnish evidence of law and order under the auspices of civil society. Castro, since you are secessionist, how come you haven't spoken out of the policy of forced deportatation of IDPs and the turning over of Rer Godey into the Ethiopian hands?

" divided on the notion of Somaliland and Puntland." Majority of Sool populace are with Puntland. It does not appeal to the common sense that one clan would be divided on seperate allegiancies.

Brown, I am as concerned as you are of the civilian casualties in these areas of target, so whether there are AlQaeda operatives in these areas is up to the U.S intelligence. I intuit their presence from the verbal testimony of Hassan Turki through which he justifies the implication and support of the foreign fighters. However, if you conclude Turki's proclamation slipped unwittingly, TFG is not to blame but the man who roused the world into fever pitch by his wild oratory in attempt to scare all other authoraties in Somalia.

I knew U.S was involved in this war and even initiated the defensive position of the TFG if you look at my earlier posts. At last, Washignton is paying attention to the anarchic situation of Somalia. With huge financial support, I believe TFG will build a viable adminstration by being directly in touch with the general masses and attenuate their fears. http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=008164

By CHRIS TOMLINSON NAIROBI, Kenya — More than a decade ago, Somalia was a low point in America's history of nation-building, when clan militiamen shot down two Black Hawk helicopters and killed 18 U.S. servicemen. Now, the United States is engaged in Somalia again. This time, its goals and tactics are more limited _ chasing Islamic terrorists. It's pursuing them with air power, but no large deployment on the ground. A U.S. Air Force Spectre gunship targeted a suspected base for al-Qaida members sought for the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania that left 225 people dead. Counterterrorism experts long have feared anarchic Somalia could become a haven for al-Qaida, pushed out of Afghanistan and under pressure in Iraq, and this week's airstrikes demonstrate Washington is intent on preventing Islamic militants from threatening chances for restoring a working Somali government. The Americans also are likely intent on keeping that effort limited, to avoid any repeat of U.S. venture into Somalia in the early 1990s. The U.S. sent troops more than a decade ago as part of a huge U.N. relief operation for tens of thousands of civilians left starving because of fighting among Somalia's clans, and the Americans soon became entangled in a military effort to quell a dangerous warlord in Mogadishu. In 1993, Somali clan militiamen shot down two Black Hawk helicopters and killed 18 American soldiers in a battle recounted in the book and movie "Black Hawk Down." The images of gunmen dragging the bodies of U.S. soldiers through the streets became an icon for those opposed to U.S. involvement overseas. President Clinton ordered a U.S. withdrawal and promised to never again deploy troops unless there was a clear U.S. national interest. Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden later called the U.S. withdrawal a victory for Islam that proved America was weak and vulnerable to further attacks. The U.N. peacekeeping operation in Somalia also was scaled back, then abandoned in 1995. Washington largely turned its back on Somalia as clan violence and anarchy prevented any government from taking power. The country became the prototypical failed state, with warlords dividing the country into fiefdoms and young gunmen killing, raping and stealing with impunity. A lone U.S. diplomat was assigned to keep track of Somalia from neighboring Kenya, but little serious attention was paid until the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks on New York and Washington. Suddenly the danger of lawless countries became evident and the Pentagon feared terrorists fleeing U.S. attack in Afghanistan would go to Somalia. In 2002, U.S. Marines deployed to a former French Foreign Legion base in nearby Djibouti, a small country on the Bab el Mandab strait where the Red Sea opens into the Indian Ocean. Djibouti borders northern Somalia and is the traditional gateway between Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. The Combined Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa, with about 1,800 personnel, has seen its mission evolve from capturing or killing terrorists to training local military forces, providing aid to the needy and gathering intelligence. In Yemen and Kenya, the task force trained new coast guards and recently gave Kenya three patrol boats. In Djibouti and Ethiopia, U.S. troops train soldiers to better guard their borders. The task force also has built medical clinics in rural parts of Tanzania and Uganda and provided training for physicians in Yemen and soldiers in Djibouti. The CIA, meanwhile, continued to hunt al-Qaida suspects hiding in Somalia, using clan warlords as proxies. At least two Arab al-Qaida suspects were turned over to the CIA, The Associated Press learned from Kenyan officials and Somalis working with the warlords. In 2004, the United Nations anointed a transitional government for Somalia, the 14th attempt since 1991 to establish the rule of law. But the Mogadishu warlords refused to cooperate and the government ended up in the central town of Baidoa, 150 miles from the capital. Last January, Islamic militants with alleged ties to al-Qaida began to fight the warlords _ who were backed by the CIA _ and by August had extended their control over most of southern Somalia. Despite peace efforts, the Islamic militia advanced on Baidoa, leading neighboring Ethiopia to intervene with its military on the side of Somalia's interim government Dec. 24, after months of consultations with top U.S. diplomats and military officials. Defeated Islamic fighters fled the battle zone and are now pinned up in the southernmost corner of the country, under heavy attack from Somali government troops and their Ethiopian allies _ and now U.S. airpower. Washington's goal is to destroy the militia as a fighting force and give the transitional government a chance to restore order, removing Somalia as a potential base for extremists. It's also pushing to put together a peacekeeping operation with African troops. ___ http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4458233.html

That was then(the couple of months of Kismayo's fall to the ICU) when the Islamists used maneouvers to quench the thirst of Reer Gedo as an old ally but after repeated protest over the injustices, the mayor was given to Rer Puntland. Dr. Mohamed Gacmadhere whose interview is on the site of Dhahar for the plight of the rural folks in the country side of Kismayo due to the past flooding confirms this protest in his interview. It was conducive to the remedial action taken by the Islamists. Horn, If you advocate the future edifice of Jubaland, you should count the blessing of the settlers of Kismayo in the name of democracy and reconciliation, not the false raised prospects of your colonel to use Kismayo as a chip that he can hold onto to future power. It is the government that should decide the daily affairs of the adminstration of the city and appoint qualified people based on the support of the constituents in Kismayo. Hirale should not be the governor of Kismayo as well as the Defense Minister of TFG.

Originally posted by Dhubad: ^^Sxb in your dreams. The people you referring are from Puntland only came to Kismayo after Abaartii Dabadhere and therefore, have no right to rule out the dwellers of the city. Wasn't Abaartii Dabadheer around 1973--77

Horn/Afrique, your non-malicious, frivolous banter really have no insight of the politics there. When the Islamist ruled, the mayor was none but for a man who is related to the people of Bulo Haji and that is why the Islamist did indeed offer a measure of stability or justice to the rightful owners of Kismayo. "Kismaayo is the second largest city in the republic this day." Not at this time or near no where at that status, but old adminstrative wise, it used to be the third largest city of Somalia but the city faced inter-conflicts and a recurrent change of power thus its severe decline. However in the Deep South, I believe Kismayo is the second largest city after Mogadishu. Horn, please do not ignore my question, why is the DM holed up in Kismayo? Isn't his job to the whole country as a Defense Minister or this whole post is a joke to him?

^The president will be gone just like his predecessors, but we have to give chance to the TFG and see how things go. Somalis will never stop the blame game.

Axmed, then you don't even know the history of the place and its geography. You should undertake to verify the history and the political involvement of Kismayo's constituents. I can either e-mail or write you in summary based on ample historical documents which discusses Puntland clans being the rightful owners of Kismayo and its near environs. I don't need to venture Af Mado and beyond. If it is for Jubaland, yes Afmadow and Badhaadhe should get fair share of this potential adminstration, but the city and its mayor is reserved none but for Rer Puntland, and we can use Merka and Barawe as a model for resolution for the conflicts there.

Caano Geel, are you a supporter of the old status quo ? How come you didn't speak out of the mayhem of the warlords and their illegal occupation in Mogadisho and the Deep South? I believe U.S's war on what it brands as a threat to its foreign interest is justified. We have foreign troops in Somalia commiting suicide and using our country as a launching pad for their fight against "neo-imperialists" Saxib, Somalis have never been known for exploding themselves as Prof. Said Samatar put in extensive detail of why Somalia is no haven for terrorists, but the reality speaks otherwise. The Prof's claim was that Somalis will kill each other based on clans but will never explode themselves for an "external ideology".

Why is the Defense Minister holed up in Kismayo and therefore does not need to venture outside of the Waamo area. The people of Kismayo need the same rights as was afforded to Afgoi, Barawe. H/A, convince me of why is the DM staying in Kismayo. Shouldn't the city have a mayor or city adminstration with the support of its constituents?

I am looking forward to the adminstration of Mogadisho in 7 days altho I would have wanted that the government give more time in fully pacifying the city .

I know the man on the far right. What a soccer player he was. I think he is now retired or too old to be a swift, talent player as he was before. He is very much related to the Garaad. My first encounter of him was in Nairobi back in 1995. He played for a Somali national team against Nukuru province. He scored 4 goals and handled them with aplomb. They couldn't stop him with three defenders. As I was told, The Garaad has done monumental tasks as he visited us here in San Diego. He resolved 73 cases of sub-clan feuds that began 20 years before he was born, 68 of which will never return or haunt the families in dispute again. He is young and educated and looks forward to fostering peace and coexistance with all clans of Puntland.

^I belive former warlords have this proclivity to disavow their past activities by representing their clans through customary means in the direction of conflict resolution mechanism and by helping the Gov collect guns. As Qaybdiid asserted, I believe all of them would want to be part of the general masses and conduct their normal business, return to their houses and spend time with their families.

^albeit the personal attacks Duke faces daily, he has tried his best to persuade and answer all the questions fairly and convincingly. Duke has an indepth knowledge of Somalia's current conflicts. I believe also he strives hard to see the rebirth of Somalia's dignity and good governance. I am looking for a documentary aired on NPR today about Somalia. It discusses the complexity of our conflict and structural differentiation starting from the time of protection treaties up to the time of Aideed's struggle to drive one segment of a society out of Somalia and his complete failure to attain that end. I hope to find and post it. It goes on up to half an hour.

Benjamin is wrong there that law and order spawns oppression in Somalia. Somaliland and Puntland are good examples how our community thrived in their local level adminstrations. I however think the main factor that we fare better than many African nations is our cultural and political devotion to our respective clans, albeit destructive in nature, it can also be progressive in terms of organizing and redirecting our energy and resources to rebuild our schools and hospitals. The provision of security and the tax collection schemes of the sub-states of Somalis have also stimulated the economy. Bosaaso, for instance, is the success story of the post civil war Somalia. Check this post http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=003617

Commander of Somalia is in the eye of beholder Stephanie Mccrummen Washington Post January 6, 2007 MOGADISHU, Somalia – The revived Somali national army assembled Friday in the sand-blown yard of the former parliament, a hollowed-out building splashed with grenade blasts and scrawled with apocalyptic graffiti. About 1,000 men sat in the sun, soldiers who had been inactive for 15 years, old men with graying beards wearing whatever shade of camouflage they found at the market or dug out of storage. Few had boots; most wore leather loafers, sandals or thin-soled tennis shoes. They squinted at the newly ascendant prime minister, Ali Mohamed Gedi, who was swept into power last week on the strength of Ethiopian soldiers now pointing machine guns at the crowd. "As prime minister, I say let us go back to our national interests," said Gedi, a former veterinarian. "This capital of Somalia is not for clans or tribes, it's for all Somalis, is this clear? Will I repeat it, or have you got it?" They all stood to sing the Somali national anthem, with many soldiers simply moving their lips, having forgotten the words. When it was over, 100 or so civilians heckled the new force – "Traitors!" – and Gedi zipped off in convoy. Even at such orchestrated events in Mogadishu, it is unclear who is in control, and the same could be said of Somalia itself. Candidates for the title include the heavily armed Ethiopian forces stationed at strategic points around the city, without which Gedi's government would have failed to take the country from the popular Islamic Courts movement. There is Gedi himself, who leads an internationally recognized government but is perceived by many Somalis as a puppet of the Ethiopians. The Ethiopians, in turn, are perceived as closely tied to the United States, which has expressed concern that Somalia could become a stronghold for terrorists. There is the fractious parliament, which Gedi is set to meet with in the next few days and whose members include warlords formerly backed by the United States, and others tied to webs of clans, sub-clans and sub-sub clans, most with their own militias. And somewhere in the oceanside city of sand, goats, poetry and barbed wire, an estimated 3,500 former Islamic Courts fighters who shed their uniforms are thought to be awaiting instructions to attack the Ethiopian troops. On Friday, al-Qaida's deputy leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, posted a message on the Internet calling on the fighters and other Muslims to attack the invading "crusader" force, Ethiopia, which has a government and army dominated by Christians and a population that is nearly half Muslim. All week, pamphlets circulating in the city have warned residents to stay away from Ethiopian soldiers. "This is a funny question," said Gedi, when asked who is controlling Somalia. "The transitional federal government. It's a fully inclusive and representative government. This is my commitment, this is my responsibility as a prime minister to lead the Somali people." Gedi's government is frail, however. He has not reached out to any moderate Islamic Courts leaders, who were widely credited with bringing security to Mogadishu, choosing to provide amnesty instead of inclusion in the government. A process of disarming the city is going badly, and Gedi said this week that he has only half the security forces he needs. Although the United States pledged $40 million in aid Friday, the government has practically no revenue to pay soldiers and set up ministries, or to assist thousands whose farms were ruined by recent floods. Related news Al-Qaida calls for violence » Islamic fighters hiding in Mogadishu since their movement's main force was driven from the Somali capital say they will heed al-Qaida's call for guerrilla attacks and suicide bombings against Ethiopian troops whose intervention was key to the Islamists' defeat. » Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, urged the Islamic movement's fighters and other Muslims to attack the troops of Christian-dominated Ethiopia, which he called a "crusader" invasion force. » "Launch ambushes, land mines, raids and suicidal combats until you consume them as the lions and eat their prey," al-Zawahri said in the taped message that aired on a Web site frequently used by militants and carried the logo of al-Qaida's media production wing, al-Sahab. Associated Press http://www.spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=167795

Mystic, point taken but is it not better to save our people from the mass confusion accusatory fingers create in our puzzled minds. TFG wants to reconstitute our state back to where it was before prior to the civil war. Yes It can be done and achieved if we embrace the TFG and put both recent and old memories to rest. We actually helped the current regime of Ethiopia mount up resistance against the old, ruthless regime rule of the Marxist-Leninst dictator, Mingeste. Our Somali government back then trained and supplied arms and munitions to Zenawi's TPLF as well as ELF. But I think TPLF's victory against the old regime is twofold. One is the collapse of the USSR and the other is the massive military and financial assistance ELF used to garner from anti-communist countries. "Ignoring such travesty and the attendant crimes against innocent fellow Somalis, by pointing accusatory fingure at others is no solution. To establish the root causes one must ask: who, in Allah’s green earth, is responsible for the clan-cleansing sprees in which tens of thousands of innocents perished the exploitation of the most defenseless communities, the expropriation of private property, the destruction of forests, the permitting of international syndicates to dump toxic waste in the country’s territorial waters? Were these atrocities overseen by the ubiquitous Western imperialists? Was it engineered by the Amharas—as most Somalis refer to all things Ethiopian? Or, was it iblisi, Somalis that committed these dastardly crimes?" Exactly