Salamu Calaykum What the Courts have enforced is correct since the verdict is based both strong valid opinions. The most supported opinion is narrated from Imam-as-Sunnah Axmad bin Hanbal (RH) and that is that if a person neglects prayer out of laziness (or denies that it is not obligatory), then he is regarded as a murtadd (apostate) and his blood becomes lawful (i.e. hadd punishment) whilst the other less supported opinion is if the person acknowledges the obligation of prayer but does not pray out of lazines, he does not leave the fold of al-Islam but earns a major sin but yet is executed for neglecting prayer.

Many inhabitants have fled their homes in CaabudWaaq and it's ongoing. The only ones who in the end will remain there and witness the onslaught are the disabled elders and their close family, and those who have nowhere else to go. My ayeeyo, who is one of the disabled elders, has to witness her city being forcefully occupied and the possible war that will occur there once the Ethiopians set their sight on CaabudWaaq knowing that the ICU forces are hiding there. Tsk

Salamu Calaykum This is very interesting. Jazakum'Allahu kharain for sharing. This must be the one of sources of the continuous appraisal of Col. Barre Hiiraale coming from the Courts. It also strengthens the unlawful conquering of the peaceful Kismayoo. Another blow to those who perceived the takeover as a liberation act.

Salamu Calaykum This is very interesting. Jazakum'Allahu kharain for sharing. This must be the one of sources of the continuous appraisal of Col. Barre Hiiraale coming from the Courts. It also strengthens the unlawful conquering of the peaceful Kismayoo. Another blow to those who perceived the takeover as a liberation act.

Salamu Calaykum This is very interesting. Jazakum'Allahu kharain for sharing. This must be the one of sources of the continuous appraisal of Col. Barre Hiiraale coming from the Courts. It also strengthens the unlawful conquering of the peaceful Kismayoo. Another blow to those who perceived the takeover as a liberation act.

Is that the two autonomous states (i.e. Somaliland and Puntland) were forced to listen to their culema and accept their proposal to rule the regions with the law of Allah. These changes, I believe, are due the initiative of the ICU in calling and implementing Sharii’iax in Xamar and it is an attribute that they should be praised for since it instilled pressure on the leaders of these states to re-think and invite the culema to play a more vital role in the administration and for that I commend them. Salamu Calaykum

Lieutenant-General Sakhar, flaunting such intellectual dishonesty is appalling especially from an individual who claims to speak for others. Citing months-old half-quotes coupled with his own half-baked interpretations in order to establish that your weak rebut reveals the light about HornAfrik. There is a no such thing as a fixed POV in the ever changing political scene and this is not alluding to brother HornAfrik. The mere fact that you have been discredited in the past with your senseless tribalistic and insolent attitude is a warning signal and an indicator, which you have obviously missed (or ignored), that your future posts will be disregarded if you do not mend your ways. I assumed that the post of brother Kashafa ( http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=007439;p=1#000003 ) has promoted to re-think your posting conduct, but apparently not which compelled me to write this. If your next response observes the same format as your previous reply, then you will be waiting a long time for a reply. If not, then Illaahay ayaa mahad leh and I will be looking forward to read your next civilized posts. M ay Allah (ta3ala) forgive us and you. Salamu Calaykum Originally posted by muraad: the real joke in this issue is; barre hiiraale was defence misinter even b4 his defeat in jubba war, so why now? why all these fuss? why shouldn't he join his team in baydhabo like qanyare? why ...? or this is just saving his face's water - Wejiga ha naga fiikhin nooh adiga - ? Salamu Calaykum muraad Col. Barre Hiiraale accepted the position whilst he was in Kismayoo but did not officially sworn in until recently. So there is no [joke] walaal but a misunderstanding. Salamu Calaykum

Originally posted by Kashafa: quote:There are amidst us some people who wouldn't settle for anything less than their next of kin as a president (ironically, they wouldn't even accept a cousin if there is brother is a contender). My nigga. Finally some much needed real-talk up in the politics section. I'm sick up to here with the drivel being spewed by blatant tribalists. Case in point: The newly annointed Lieutenant-General-Mighty-Warrior-Poet-Defender-of-all-things-Puntish Sakhraan(drunk with qabiil). 2 weeks ago, the stooge wasn't even posting on SOL, let alone the politics section. ICU comes within striking distance of Galkacyo and macalinka hurdatha oo ka kacay. He came down with a bad case of Xamiyatul Jaahiliya and starts waxin poetic all of sudden. Jinniyada Puntland aa hal mar ku soo dhageen. He enrolls in a 'poetry'(lol) crash course and here are his more enlightened pronouncements: 1. The ICU(clan courts of the south, in qabil-speak) are terrorists. Every single last one of them no-good rapist killers. 2. Dahir Aweys is a terrorist who's in cahoots with Al-Qadia. Same goes to Sharif Ahmed and the rest of their leadership. 3. The 'clan courts of the south' stink. They don't bathe.(lol ok, he didn't say this but I wouldn't be suprised) 4. Barre Hirale is worshipping(sujood'ing to) Adeer A/Y. Evidence ? Sakhraan provides a pic of Barre sitting down in a chair. 5. Since Barre is sujooding to A/Y, that makes his people 'dhuli'(his words). 6. The clan courts attempted to drug the Glorious Puntish Armies by sending them free shipments of jaat. In any other world/universe, this man would commited to a mental asylum, or at best, sidelined as a buffon. Not here, the true authentic tribalist is a whole 'nother beast. Here he gets props and a promotion from General Duke. By all means, criticise the ICU, it's leadership, and it's policies. But wax cagli gal oo nin wayn ku hadlo ah lasoo shir tag. Step up your game with something better than "Boo! Be scared, be very scared: the Clan Courts are coming". If you have nothing to offer but qabil-talk, no matter how cleverly disguised(General Duke) or elequently expressed(Oodweyne), then please STFU. Please. Salamu Calaykum I frankly agree with brother Caaqil and Kashafa. Whilst one can formulate his own opinions of movements, one should at least adhere to the standards of the Islamic conduct in engaging discussions. Some members need to be reminded that ICU council employs many wadaado who are some of the culema of the country and if Allah (ta3ala) has warned his servants from eating the flesh of your brother, what about the heirs of the Prophet. I run a large-sized Islamic Forum and if I encounter such garbage and individuals who are devoid of displaying Islamic etiquette in their posts; I simply ban them and I urge the Somalionline staff to enforce the same rule. Salamu Calaykum

Originally posted by Djib-Somali: [QB] Of course, Shariah must be implemented at the local level without any interference; that has always clearly been ICU's policy. Djib-Somali , forget the written policies walaal. We deduct conclusions based on the actions. I firmly believe that the ICU presently acknowledges and affirms courts that they have built instead of independent courts who rule with the Qur'an and the Sunnah. For instance, Bulled Xawo has already got an court system that is based on Islam (see: http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=007146#000000) and yet the Courts are determined to invade the region to disrupt its peace. Puntland has now an agreement with its culema in impelementing the Sharii'ax alxamdullilah and if the ICU do not retreat their forces then best believe puntland culema will call Jihad against them which again leads to more conflict. It is a detestable action to invade a peaceful region that will cause mayhem and unnecessary provocation. Read Imam ad-Dhahabi's volumes on the biographies of the past culema and how they viewed invasions and rebellions. Likewise, military actions should be strictly limited to self-defence and prevention of any invasion, hence the crucial necessity of securing Kismayo against IGADSOM and TFG renegats. Please ya please walaal, do not ever re-iterate that pretext again for the sake of your own credibility. Some individuals who have absorbed that baseless excuse have repeatedly re-iterated only to be refuted by the ICU officials themselves In fact, Sheikh Xassan Dahir Aweys talks about in his latest q/a session where he praised Barre Hiiraale and said that the man is known to be firm in opposition against foreign troops not to mention that Sheikh Abu Mansuur himself has said the exact same thing a few weeks after the capture of Kismayoo. Please read the thread entitled 'Unfound accusations against Col. Barre Hiiraale'. Barre Hirale was playing with fire by accepting his nomination as pseudo defence minister for the troyan horse; thus some elements inevitably forced the hand of the more prudent ICU leadership when his troops left our third city which is after all a Somali city whose inhabitants welcomed the Islamic courts and declared their own administration. Walaalow, the one thing that that really annoys me is unsubstantiated claims. We all know that during the first week after the peace has been disrupted; major demonstrations were staged which resulted in to the death of a teenager. What bothers me is not the demonstrations, in fact, if the city was taken by force for a justified Islamic reason, then by all means I fully condone it. But what bothers me is the illegimate takeover (which is xaraan) of a peaceful city where daily clan feuds were eradicated and had finally achieved peace. Col. Barre Hiiraale had to turn on some of his close relatives to give the required justice [again refer to my previous]. By taking over the city, thousands were forced to flee, a few demonstrators were killed, it has increased animosity and damaged the reputation of the ICU. Remember that there is a methodology for everything in Islam, and the best methodology is the methodology of the salaf. Salamu Calaykum

Originally posted by Lieutenant-General Sakhar: Barre is a passionate warrior, but I don't believe that he's the right man for the job! I'm skeptical and he's to proove himself, before I believe that he's up for the job! Salamu Calaykum I believe Col. Barre Hiiraale can sufficiently perform his function in spite of the current situation. The man graduated from one of the oldest and most prestigious military university in the world and on top of that, his outstanding militaristic experience. My father and Barre were a few months away of being promoted to General but the civil war broke out.

I am not getting the joke or is it something that is only comprehended by the anti-Hiiraale squad Reminds me of the extreme Sufis' claim that the hidden knowledge is reserved for the elite Sufis.

Originally posted by Djib-Somali: Akhi, concerns about the bad elements in the courts are quite legitimate as well as the vital necessity of avoiding tribal revenges. In fact, ICU's leadership grasp these priorities better than anyone of us. However, apart from the evil legacies endemic within us, the courts face a much greater evil which is outright defeat by the cartel of crime(foreign invaders,warlords,TFG, Western propaganda, Cade's administration ect). This is by no means an easy tasks to navigate with all these swords of damocles placed on their heads and with only poorly disciplined recruits to face multiple agressions. That is why we should all be more concerned about their succes in such critical times for Islam (as should be every coherent Muslim)than with the inevitable death of some of our misguided kinsmen... Salamu Calaykum Walaal Unfortunately, your perception on the whole current affair seems a bit simplistic akhi and the issue is not black and white. It is not Islam against [insert word], rather the issue has elevated to a whole new scenario. Culumaa'udiin are divided on this issue while some are anti-ICU and others are in favour of the ICU. However, their consensus is the implementation of the Sharii'iax throughout the country. ICU seems to be rushing with hasty decisions and seeking confrontation with peaceful regions. They should cease and desist and spend their resources on the people who are in dire need of help. These confrontations create mass exoduses, forcing the already starved inhabitants to leave their area and seek shelter in a kafir country under harsher condition. I still greatly admire some of the shuyukh of the ICU such as Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Axmed, Sheikh Dahir Aweys and Sheikh Abu Mansuur but until they continue to operate with individuals who have different un-islamic agenda in the organization and rethink their hasty decisions, my support for them will be minimum. Not anyone who masquerades with the flag of al-Islam gets the approval seal. The position of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaac is to judge what is in accordance with Islam and reject and condemn what is against Islam. My position is in accordance with the Culumaa'udiin of CaabudWaaq and Puntland and that is to the implementat the Sharii’iax without any interference of any outside force.

Once the bad elements have been fully eradicated, and the qabiil-based revenge attacks have been solved instead of fooling the public that they're being "investigated" ICU might be worthy of support. Yuusuf Indho-cadde iyo Maxkamadaha oo qarka u saaran inay isku dhacaan, iyo Yuusuf Indho-cadde oo ka baxay Muqdisho Muqdisho (PP) - Maamulka Maxkamadhaa Midoobay ee Muqdisho iyo Yuusuf Indho-cadde ayaa la sheegay inay isku khilaafsan yihiin joojinta jaadka iyo cunistiisa, waxaana Yuusuf Indho-cadde uu diiday in jaadka la joojiyo. Warar hoose oo ay puntlandpost ka heshay xubno ku dhowdhow mas'uulka dhanka Ammaanka u qaabilsan Maxkamadaha Yuusuf Indho-cadde ayaa waxay sheegayan in Yuusuf Indho-cadde uu si dhab ah uga hor caddeeyay Madaxda Maxkamadaha in jaadka la joojiyo. mas'uuliyiintaan oo diiday in magacyadooda la xuso ayaa waxay sheegeen in Yuusuf Indho-cadde uu qorsheynayo in gobolkii uu madaxda ka ahaa ee Shabeelada Hoose uu dib ugu laabto isla markaana uu isaga baxo howlaha Maxakamadaha. Arrintaan oo ah khilaaf soo cusboonaaday una dhexeeyay maxkamadaha iyo Yuusuf Indho-cadde ayaa warar ay shacabka Reer Muqdisho isla dhex marayaan waxay sheegayaan in laga yaabo inay dagaallo isaga horyimaadaan. Yuusuf Indho-cadde ayaa haatan ka maqan Magaalada Muqdisho; waxaana magaalada uu ka baxay isagoo careysan sida ilo ku dhow-dhow Maxkamdaha ay tibaaxayaan, waxaana si dhab ah aysan u garanayn Madaxda Maxkamaduhu halka uu dhab ahaan u abbaaray Yuusuf Indho-cadde. Khilafkaan ayaa wuxuu sababi karaan isku dhac fudud oo dhex mara Maxkaamdaha iyo Yuusuf Indho-cadde waxaa isku dhacaan uu saameyn ku yeelan karaan howlaha nabadgalyo ee ay wadaan Maxkamadaha Midoobay. http://www.puntlandpost.com/newspage.php?articleid=6635

Salamu Calaykum Quite odd that it required the endorsement of Sheikh Dahir Aweys (xafidhullah) to accept the mere truth that Col. Barre Hiiraale is an honourable and a true Somali patriotic leader whilst one could easily have reached that conclusion by some brief independent research. I will patiently await the humorous responses of the anti-Barre squad. Which flimsly argument will they conjure up in response to this?

Dhanka kale, magaalada Kismaayo ayaa labadii maalmood oo ugu dambeeysay ayaa waxaa ka baxay ciidamo tiradoodu kor u dhaafeyso ilaa iyo 300 nin oo isugu jira kuwa horay ugu tirsanaa maxkamadaha iyo kuwa dhowaan ku soo biiray, hadana dib ugu noqday xaruntoodii hore ee degaanka Beerxaani. Ciidamadan ka baxay magaalada Kismaayo ayaa waxaa ay aad ugu xumaadeen kadib markii falkii xasuuqa ahaa oo loogu geystay magaalada Buaale 5 nin oo dhalinyaro ah oo dhowaac aheyd oo lagu laayey magaalada Buaale iyo weliba falal ammaan darro ah iyo hanjabaadyo ugu yimid maleeshiyo beeleedyo ka tirsan maxkamadaha Kismaayo. http://www.gedonet.com/index.php?news=593

Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: ^so what exactly is your point? I understand things in bold, so list all your wishes for me buddy and leave the verses of the Quran and Hadith which you are using to advace your hidden agenda out of it. If the ICU praises col.Hiiraale,then why are they fighting amongst each other? can you answer that for me respectably? Thanks Akhi. Mr. Red Sea I have directed substantial points at you and all you seem to be doing is hurling back irrelevant questions at me. Clearly such evasive and fallacious tactic is employed by many who will not sufficiently answer the points in question in order to delude themselves that their argument holds water. It is in fact confirmed with the accusation that you have brought forth claiming that I have a "hidden agenda" because I have quoted the glorious qur'an and the narrations of our Nabi. Can you even point out the discrepancies of my points vis-à-vis with the sources of the Qur’an that I have quoted. Tell me, is taboo to mention the sources of the Deen in the political section? Mr. Red Sea, read carefully my previous posts and provide adequate responses so that this discussion can be elevated to a reasonably productive and fruitful level, insha'Allah, otherwise you're wasting my time and yours walaal. Salamu Calaykum Originally posted by Khalaf: quote:Originally posted by Suleyman: The purpose of this thread was to address those who dishonestly or in ignorance vilify the character of another Muslim brother but yet do not have the slightest idea that Col. Barre Hiiraale is taking their hasanaat while they continue to spew these calumnious words. Know that it is the duty of a Muslim to defend his brother and warn his other brothers who are carrying out these acts or do some of you not consider Col. Barre Hiiraale as a Muslim? If I did not create this topic out of love for you as my brothers and my obligation to defend my brothers, your sayi`aat would have increased unknowingly. I am confused ninyahow, please explain to me why you are being selective here? If you are for justice as Muslim then shouldnt you make your apeal a general warning....ppl here talk about "leaders" rightfully or wrongfully not just Hiraale...arent the other "leaders" also Muslim brothers :confused: And you use the Quran and Hadith, ya Allah. Just admit ninyahow Barre is close to you in relation dont bring the Quran and Hadith in to this. Salamu Calaykum Khalaf What is with the lack of compression in reading simple and straightforward posts. Walaalow, the aim of the post has nothing to do with selectiveness of leaders rather it is a post that details a refutal of myths and incorrect perceptions that is re-iterated numerously on the forum. If the Maxaakiimta praise Mudane Barre Hiiraale then what is with the continuous and repeated slander against this man on the forums by the overzealous ICU supporters or do they claim that the ICU are also guilty of favouritism I mean, doesn’t this prove that their hatred of Col. Barre Hiiraale is based on tribalism and other un-Islamic reasons. Please do not play the qabiil card with me akhi as your frivolous accusation will simply backfire. Yes, Col. Barre Hiiraale is a relative of mine; however, I have close ties with at least two tribes in the ICU. Never ever have I resorted to qabyaalad so please save your accusations of favouritism in the future. Is blood ties an automatic obstruction of speaking the haqq when someone is wronged? Your accusation would have been justified if I had made an unwarranted post displaying blatant partiality to the man which I did not. Walaalyaalow stop introducing red-herrings in to the discussion and either respond to my points which is the position of the ICU or do not respond at all if your intention is to be evasive and find ways to divert the topic of the thread. Salamu Calaykum

Originally posted by Red Sea: ]^If all you are asking is, the insults directed towards Col.Hiirale to stop, will do,however,he must comply with the ICU,that is beneficial to him or you don't think so also? Salamu Calykuum Lol, by all means, one can persist in [insulting] and denigrating Col. Barre Hiiraale but on the yaumul khiyamah one cannot present the excuse that he was unaware of the falseness of these accusations and insults after evidence (my first post) has reached him. Tell me akh Red Sea, have you so far refuted my points that I have outlined in my initial post. Have you recanted your age-old belief that Col. Barre Hiiraale belonged the same group as those vicious warlords? Because so far, no one has tried to offer any evidence that is in direct conformance with the age-old belief. But tell me, how would you evaluate the job done by the ICU thus far? including everything that has taken place? This is sidetracking and I wish we could remain on the subject of the thread. For my political opinions, see my early/previous posts. However, I will briefly answer this one question for you provided that it does not create another sub-topic, insha'Allah. The ICU have the correct of Message of Islam and that is what satisfies me, they do not carry some sort of down-played innovative Sufi concepts and this is why the Sufi community in Somalia opposes them in terms of the Deen. Their ideology reminds me of the past Mujaddidun (revivers of the Deen) due them banning acts that were deemed xaraan in Islaam but acceptable in today’s society. Their rapid expansion and direct force to other peaceful Muslim communities is something which I strongly condemn due its forbiddance according to the Shari'ax. These takeovers have disrupted the lives of many Somalis and forced tens of thousands of Somalis to flee to a Christian nation. It has caused several unnecessary deaths such as the young teenager and it has severed ties that in the long run would have benefited them. This pre-mature expansion goes against the methodology of the Nabi (SCW). The Prophet spend years and years of building treaties with Mushrikun and Kafirun to maintain peaceness and this patience has proven to be effective in the long run and yet war is waged on Muslims for no legal reason according to the Sharia'x. The ICU instead of rushing and disrupting the peace and security of other cities, could have send delegates to several towns, build ties and instil the love of Islam in the hearts of the Muslims with weak-faith. That way, the inhabitants of these communities would eventually conduct their live according to Islam and for the sake of Islam and their extreme longing for jannada. This is exactly what the Prophet (SCW) did but then to the truth-seekers and the pagan Carabs. He sent some or one of the companions to communities to teach them the meaning of La Ilaha Illa Laha and then the rest of the pillars and they entered the Deen in great numbers and strengthen the rest of the Muslims. Allah (ta3ala) said in Surah Aali ‘Imran: “So by the Mercy of Allah, you were lenient with them. And if you were harsh and hardhearted they would have ran away from around you. So pardon them and seek forgiveness for them, and seek their consultation in the affairs. And if you have made a decision, then put your trust in Allah. Indeed, Allah loves those who put their trust in Him”. “Naxariista eebe darteed yaad ugu jilicday haddaadse tahay mid ingagan oo qalbi adag way kaakala tagi lahaayeen gaararkaada, ee iska cafi una dambi dhaaf warso kalana tasho amarka, markaas haddaad wax goosatana talo saaro Allah, illahey wuxuu jeclyahay kuwa tala saartee.” And its due this harshness that many have fled to Kenya and other neighbouring countries. As I have commented previously, the wadaado in Somaliland and Puntland after the news of the Kismayoo takeover reached them, they send a warning to stop interfering with a community that currently enjoins peace and tranquillity and where the people are not barred from worshipping Allah and I agree with them because this warning is in accordance with Islam. Remember that 90% of the Somalis where behind the ICU after their deserved victory in Xamar but this support rapidly decreased after the events of unnecessary disturbance of peaceful communities and those actions simply backfired on them. For your convenience, here is the actual text found at garoweonline: "The Hargeisa clerics hailed the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) for their positive achievements and for applying the Islamic Sharia, but warned them against any attempts to destabilize Somaliland. We praise the Islamic Courts in Somalia for their good achievements such restoring peace and their call for the application of the Sharia but we warn them against interfering in the internal affairs of Somaliland and disturbing its long preserved peace and stability, they said. " http://www.garoweonline.com/stories/publish/article_5410.shtml Would you condone if the ICU stepped at the gates of Somaliland with the pretext to bring peace and security. If not, then what makes you think that other cities who enjoyed years of peace deserve this take-over but Somaliland and Puntland not? Besides, I am bit confused of what is Xaram of taking over in Kismayo.If the purpose of your thread is to try to put to end the insults toward Hiiraale,then what is side point you are trying to sneak in that Kismayo shouldn't be in safe hands as it's today? or you dont believe that as well. The purpose of this thread was to address those who dishonestly or in ignorance vilify the character of another Muslim brother but yet do not have the slightest idea that Col. Barre Hiiraale is taking their hasanaat while they continue to spew these calumnious words. Know that it is the duty of a Muslim to defend his brother and warn his other brothers who are carrying out these acts or do some of you not consider Col. Barre Hiiraale as a Muslim? If I did not create this topic out of love for you as my brothers and my obligation to defend my brothers, your sayi`aat would have increased unknowingly. Remember the words of our Nabi: "Whoever wronged his brother with regard to his honour or any other matter, should seek his forgiveness today, before there are no longer any dinars, or dirhams; and if he has any righteous deeds, they will be taken from him, in accordance with the wrong he did; and if he has no hasanaat, some of the sayi`aat of his counterpart will be taken and added to his burden.” Bukhari I would greatly appreciate it if someone could focus on the points that I have mentioned in my previous posts. Does one agree with the stance of the ICU in praising Col. Barre Hiiraale or do you go against the ICU when it comes to Col. Barre Hiiraale. If you do, then why, other than clannish reasons. Salamu Calykum

Originally posted by Read Sea:^so Yaa Akhi Sulayman, what are saying now,let Barre Hiiraale come back to Power in Kismayo, or what? I am not saying anything apart from that these baseless accusations that are not even endorsed by the ICU itself need to cease Are you also hinting,the ICU is doing bad job in handling the situation in Southern Somalia? The takeover of Kismayoo was a bad job, Islamically xaraan, and has created negative consequences, there is no dispute in that and only a blind-follower would justify the takeover based on the false words of the bad elements in the movement. All my posts in this topic hinted at the biased criticism of the overzealous ICU-supporters and the xaraan take-over of Kismayoo. I did not comment on anything else, indirectly or directly. I welcome all the good actions of the ICU that are based on the sound creed and I detest any actions that they commit that goes against the principles of Islam. That's why the wadaado in Somaliland have issued a warning not to invade Somaliland and mendle with its affairs lest they create havoc. Based on your previous posts, you heavily defended the position that the ICU should never enter Somaliland and I am not going to critize you for that since it is Islamically correct. few questions to consider,since you seem to be defending one man's interest in this particular thread,while on the other hand we are defending the greater interest of us all.And as I said,if Barre Hiirale wants to come back,he must not have a militia outside for his own interest,no one will harm his tribe,and certainly no one will do injustice,so he must join this great cause of the ICU and be a member,then all negativivity that might have been said about him will be put to aside. So what do you say about that Akhi Sulayman?(great nick by the way). Walaal, there is simply too much assumptions and presumptions in your statements and I really do not wish to defend something that I never said or advocated. This is not about the interest of one man, tribe or any other political issue, rather this topic is based on the unfair smears perpetrated by a couple of individuals on this forum. If you want to see my political position on the ICU and Col. Barre Hiiraale, then search my previous posts walaal. There is a narration of the Prophet who said: "Whoever defends the honour of his brother, this will be a protection for him from the Jahannum." at-Tirmidhi Any negativty that is unjustly attributed to him will increase in him in rewards so lets watch our tongue, fear Allah, and avoid attributing any accusations that are baseless. Remember that the ICU that you wholeheartly support heavily praise this man, then on what purpose have you accused Col. Barre Hiiraale of acts he never commited? Salamu Calaykuum

Originally posted by Juje: Inta kaleba yeelkad widayo, lakiin ma waxad hada ka yelna Barre Hiraale waa 'mu'miniin' . Salamu Caleykum Waalow, refer to the tafsirs or ask a wadaad for the general injunction derived from this ayah. Wasalam

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: LOL@Sulayman! You remind me the infamous war sermon of Mark Twain! But I take it as a eulogy saaxiib ! Instead of confusing people and citing the holy Qur’an to defend a warlord (a feeble effort any way), why don’t you take a page from Ina Haabiil’s famous baroor-diiq; Bari yio galbeed baa laga yiqiin golaci dheeraaye’e Magaciisu waa gudubsanaa gaaliyo islaanee’e Geesiigiii lawada …….goconayaa mooyi’i sii wada hee yaa jamaacah! I know Allamagan is the literary stud around here so you might as well enlist his help Sulaymaanow ! Weligeey tanoo kale! Salamu Caleykuum walaal xiinfaniin I am quite astonished at the lack of extending the Islamic salam in spite of the fact that this is a Somali-Muslim forum. akhi xiinfaniin, bear in mind that if you cannot add anything productive to the discussion apart from ridiculing my posts with no basis then refrain from posting in this topic unless your intention was to cause flame-war. Wasalam

Salamu Calykuum ya akhi Che-Guevara Originally posted by Che-Guevara: That's where he made the mistake. You can't remain neutral in conflicts. He along with every Somali has invested interest in the outcome of the current TFG/Courts struggles. Choose side. One can't be TFG Defence minister and praise the courts at the same time. That is where are you are incorrect. Neutralism is a great advantage for a mediator or conciliator. Without Col.Barre Hiiraale's neutralistic stance, war would have erupted many months ago. As for the slander against him, bro the man is warlord. That should say enough. This issue bothers me really and that is individuals using the Somali definition of warlord and the standard definition of warlord interchangbly. What is the standard definition of a warlord? The standard definition of a "warlord" is: "is a leader whose power has been attained by non-democratic means but who exercises authority usually on the basis of an appeal to ethnic or religious identity, and who usually controls a definable territory where he has a near monopoly on the use of force. A warlord, as opposed to a gang leader or petty crook, operates within a clear and defined political framework." By this definition, Col. Barre Hiiraale is a warlord and the ICU are a group of warlords, but what about the oft-used and cited Somali definition? The Somali definition of a "warlord" is: "a criminal thug who recruits men from his own tribe and who have allegiance to the warlord. He is someone who drives his capacity to intimidate one or few persons at most. A warlord drives his power from his capacity to intimidate the civilian populations of whole villages, towns and cities and is usually responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent civilians." Does this definition apply to Col. Barre Hiiraale or the ICU? Nay and here is why: Col. Barre Hiiraale has never performed atrocities as opposed to others such as Caydiid, Morgan, et la. Col. Barre Hiiraale's army consisted of three different tribes including his own. Col. Barre Hiiraale has never intimidated the inhabitants but instead provided security and justice The satisfaction of the people is witness to his justice as outlined in the news article that I have provided. But for your convenience, I will repost the important bit: “Kismayo;s current peace and governance initiative are the brainchild of Mr. Barre Adan Shire aka Barre Hiiraale. Mr. Shire received unprecedented popularity among city residents after he effectively built bridges among various feuding tribes and banned looting and intimidation by his armed militias. His new security drive is welcomed by almost everyone in the city. He lost close friends and former allies when he told them he is not a typical warlord and he's determined to build civil regional administration. Even many armed men from his ******* tribe left him for his stand on responsible governance. A former ally and a close tribesman, Adan jama Dhere is now collecting weapons and gathering tribal young men in an attempt to force Barre out of Kismayo. Mr. Dhere left Kismayo recently after clashes between his supporters and Barre’s.†http://somalinet.com/news/world/English/572 If Barre was really a "warlord" (using the second definition), then why did the ICU praise him on numerous occasions and in fact, why is he one of the few individuals who have been continuously praised by the Courts if he was guilty of warlordism and mayhem. Salamu Calaykuum ya akhi Red Sea Originally posted by Read Sea: Well big ups to Col.Barre if he did indeed brought justice to Kismayo however,you must always keep in mind that one man's hero/savior, is another's warlord.If that is your point of view and the point of view of your likes,then you must remember,that certain sub clans in the Kismayo area were not too happy with Col.Barre being in control of the city,while others were. Red Sea, based on the comment, I can safely say walaal that you haven't read my primary post. The majority of the inhabitants of Kismayoo were very satisfied with Col. Barre Hiiraale: Somalinet.com reports: “Kismayo;s current peace and governance initiative are the brainchild of Mr. Barre Adan Shire aka Barre Hiiraale. Mr. Shire received unprecedented popularity among city residents after he effectively built bridges among various feuding tribes and banned looting and intimidation by his armed militias.His new security drive is welcomed by almost everyone in the city." The majority counts unless one should satisfy every individual which is frankly impossible. The rest of the comments reflect the title of the topic and that is unfound accusations. Walaalow, these fictional perceptions have been already debunked if one has followed the situation of Kismayoo in the last few years. You already revealed that you were completely unaware Col. Barre Hiiraale’s introduction of security in the city which actually manifests that you haven't followed the political situation of Kismayoo in the last years and how did you manage to interpose a completely fabricated story of Col. Barre Hiiraale's intentions and actions. Col. Barre Hiiraale himself announced that after creating the Jubbaland state, he would step back Col. Barre Hiiraale did not base his justice on tribalistic reasons; rather he treated everyone equally which made him popular. The article (which you haven't read, I presume) clearly mentions it. It says: "He lost close friends and former allies when he told them he is not a typical warlord and he's determined to build civil regional administration. Even many armed men from his ******* tribe left him for his stand on responsible governance. A former ally and a close tribesman, Adan jama Dhere is now collecting weapons and gathering tribal young men in an attempt to force Barre out of Kismayo. Mr. Dhere left Kismayo recently after clashes between his supporters and Barre’s.†In addition, I can understand you might think he is been treated unfairly,but being neutral doesn't make any sense,and certainly it doesn't make any sense to say that Barre Hiirale shouldn't have left Kismayo in a way of force,I think it was the right move,timely too,because the Ethiopians were planing on using the Kismayo port to harm other Somalis,thus Hiirale showed no sign of apposing such move if it ever happened,hence he is a minister of the corrupt TFG after all. Ya akhi, please do not tell me that you actually believed in the pretext that Kismayoo would have been occupied by the Ethiopians. This is why I specifically made a mention of the 'unconditional allegiance' in my initial post. Know, oh Red Sea, that if one doesn't base his actions and movements according the Qur'an and the Sunnah, then we reject him and we praise him if he does. The take-over of Kismayoo according to Shari'ax Law is Xaraan. Yes, it is hundred percent Haram and hence why I stated that they (the geniune wadaado) were misled by certain elements in the movement. Because of this, we reject the takeover and we denounce it for the sake of Allah (ta3ala). No one is infallible, not even the Prophets (except in conveying the Message) were despite the fact that our Nabi (scw) was the best of creation. He was rebuked several times for his non-wahy decisions. The geniune wadaado who made ijtihad for this takeover due misleading reasons are still rewarded since one who errs in itjihad is rewarded once while if he gets it right is rewarded twice. If one wants to know the fiqh and the principle of why the takeover was xaraan in the Shari'ax, then you can pm or I might post it at a later time due its length. Ya red Sea, Col. Barre Hiiraale has countless times revealed his position in regard to foreign interference. Please do read my posts ya akhi so I do not have the time to repeat myself. In addition, please read the latest interview (see HornAfrique's first post) of Sheikh Mukhtaar Roobow Abu Mansuur (xafidhullah) and where he mentions that Col. Barre Hiiraale was against foreign interference. Remember that they didn't call him a nationalist for nothing. nor is it against the faith, our faith to critise a man like he.It doesn't matter how many Surats you may quote to make it seem as though its' immoral to say anything about him,but it doesn't apply to this situation whatsoever,he deserved of whatever happened to him,thus it wouldn't have happened to him in the first place,Allah isn't injust for your reminder,so Allah did justice,by causing Barre Hiirale to be gotten rid off by the ICU. Brother, where did I object to criticism. I object to a specific type of criticism and that is biased criticism (see my primary post). That criticism amounts to slander according to Islam. Walaalow please do not attribute a xaraan act that has been committed as Justice from Allah (ta3ala). Akhi Red Sea, once again your post validates and confirms my primary post and that is that most accusations are actually half-baked and pure fabrications. Wasalam

Salam Caleykuum Many members on this board who claim to have pledged unconditional allegiance to the ICU have directed biased criticism against this man without taking in to account the actual position of the ICU towards Col. Barre Hiiraale. I do not know whether these criticisms emanate from ignorance or plain dishonesty and I am not going to indulge in that, however, it is awfully annoying to see certain individuals throw half baked and false smears against this individual. Does one not know that these type of criticism amount to the reprehensible act of slander? Allah (ta3ala) says in Surah Al-Ahzab: والذين يؤذون المؤمنين والمؤمنات بغير ما اكتسبوا Ùقد احتملوا بهتانا وإثما مبينا “And among them who malign the believers unfairly, they are guilty of slander and a glaring sin.†“Kuwa ku dhiba mu'miniita waxayan kasbanin waxay xambaarteen been abuurasho iyo dambi cad.†The ICU has on several occasions displayed their attitude towards Col. Barre Hiiraale and on these occasions, they have praised him for his immense integrity, his patriotic spirit and his honourable history with the wadaado. The exact words were (in a BBC interview): "Barre Hiiraale waxa waayee nin ee Maxkamadaha ka aaminsanyihiin wadaniyaad, iyo sharaf, iyo xurmad badan" "Barre Hiiraale is a man that the ICU believes to be nationalistic, honorable, and full of integrity" And in another interview, available at http://www.somaliweyn.org/Audio/waresiyo_Khadijo_AbuuMansuur.ram (start at 6th minute), Shaykh Mukhtaar Roobow Abu Mansuur (xafidhullah) said that Col. Barre Hiiraale is a man of great respect and character and that the courts had great gratitude for him. Clearly this utmost respect that the ICU possessed for Barre Hiiraale stems from a number of past events: Col. Barre Hiiraale has never annoyed nor attacked the wadaado since the emergence of al-Itixaad al-Islaamiya and never condemned them (al-Itixaad established its base in Gedo) Col. Barre Hiiraale was offered a considerable amount of money to join the "Anti-Terrorism Alliance" but instead choose to send fighters to Xamar in order to aid the ICU. Col. Barre Hiiraale was offered a considerable amount of money by the US Government to capture Sheikh Xassan Turki (xafidhullah) but rejected it. Col. Barre Hiiraale opposes foreign intervention and has on several occasions demonstrated his opposition. He stated that if any foreign presence wages war or simply deploys it troops on Somali soil with the pretext of "bringing peace", I will personally go to Xamar and partake in the fight against the foreigners. He ordered last September the former national forces to turn out and show their spirit of anti occupation movements. General Maxamed Nor Galal who is pro-ICU said regarding this: “We are in favour of Barre Hiiraale, the minister of defence whom we are in a same position of defending the country from he enemy, I don’t know how Hiiraale and the so called pro-Ethiopia government can be in common ground and understand each other,†He always maintained a neutral role when it comes to politics and neither condemned either side but instead attempted to reconcile the political gap between both sides for the sake of the future of Somalia. He brought peace and security to Kismayoo based on non-tribalic reasons but rather based on justice which forced some of his close relatives to resent him. Somalinet.com writes: “Kismayo;s current peace and governance initiative are the brainchild of Mr. Barre Adan Shire aka Barre Hiiraale. Mr. Shire received unprecedented popularity among city residents after he effectively built bridges among various feuding tribes and banned looting and intimidation by his armed militias. His new security drive is welcomed by almost everyone in the city. He lost close friends and former allies when he told them he is not a typical warlord and he's determined to build civil regional administration. Even many armed men from his ******* tribe left him for his stand on responsible governance. A former ally and a close tribesman, Adan jama Dhere is now collecting weapons and gathering tribal young men in an attempt to force Barre out of Kismayo. Mr. Dhere left Kismayo recently after clashes between his supporters and Barre’s.†http://somalinet.com/news/world/English/572 Unfortunately, due some bad elements in the ICU who abused the wadaado to participate in political issues that were no concern to them (i.e. the Kismayoo takeover), it forced Col. Barre Hiiraale to choose a side. So in conclusion, ya overzealous ICU supporters abstain from accussing your fellow Muslim brothers from acts that they are free from lest they eat your good deeds. And remember the Islamic principle: من كان يؤمن بالله واليوم الآخر Ùليقل خيراً أو ليصمت "Whoever believers in Allah (ta3ala) and the Last Day, let him say something good or else remain silent" Bukhari/Muslim Wasalam

Originally posted by HornAfrique: What's wrong with a flag that says Laa ilaaha ila laah? Salam Caleykuum Exactly, personally I advocated the replacing of the flag in Kismayoo. The one thing I admire about the ICU is their strict adherence to the Shari'a law based on the first generations of Islam and not some lenient Sufi ideology. Wasalam

The coordinator of Somali affairs in Kenya, Mohamed Ali Nur Americo, tells VOA that, as of Monday morning local time, government troops are controlling the town of Buale, more than 80 kilometers north of the port city of Kismayo. "As far as we are concerned, this morning the minister of defense and his forces are in Buale," he said. "They are controlling that area. If there's any further counterattack, the ministry of defense and its forces are ready to defend themselves and defend the area." Buale Sunday was the scene of a fierce battle between fighters aligned to the Islamic Courts Union and government troops. At least five people were reportedly killed in the fighting. The French news agency quoted Islamic officials as saying that they had chased away members of the area's militia Juba Valley Alliance and had taken their armed vehicles. Islamist commander Sheikh Yakubu Ali told the French news agency, AFP, that the Islamic Courts Union is controlling Buale. http://voanews.com/english/2006-10-23-voa20.cfm Audio http://128.11.143.113/mediaassets/english/2006_10/Audio/rm/majtenyi_Somalia_update_23oct06.rm

What is with the hostile approach. I am conveying the news that has reached me. Obviously there are conflicting reports on his capture and the current state of his capture so it is best to keep an open mind what is happening instead of absorbing every information that comes your way. Ps, I am not your buddy but your walaal in deen and please address like a brother in Islam, jazakumallahu khairan salam caleykum