Meiji has taken the "my words are right, your evidence, no matter how rich it is, is automatically false" approach Meiji, if we had to rely on your unreferenced words, than you might have a point but the world the doesn't work that way. I mean, you can hole up the hatred you have for him which is grounded on clannism but one cannot deny his achievements. As Jonathan Stevenson commented on the achievements of the previous Somali government: When Siad Barre took over, Somalia's population was three-quarters nomadic and largely illiterate. Nationalization of agricultural industries focused and coordinated production, crowded out sleazy and inefficient middlemen, and nurtured foreign trade. Through largely inspirational government self-help programs Somalis built an operating health and education infrastructure from the ground up and inched Somalia in to the twentieth century. In 1973, Siad instituted Somalia’s first written language (a hybrid of indigenous argots and Arabic) and promptly brought literacy in Somalia up to a level that was in fact exemplary for the Third World. By 1975, with his program of “scientific socialism”, he had centralized the budget, nationalized land, and imposed wage and price controls. He conscientiously tried to ban khat, recognizing that it rotted the core of Somalia’s work force by creating young addicts who spent the morning hours scoring the amphetamine weed and the afternoon hours chewing it. The ban didn’t work—but Siad tried. Here are videos/articles about the late president and his achievements: Articles Videos

Kashafa, since you seem to be fond of Saciid Afisoone, why not listen to his commentary on the Maxamed Siyaad Speech 1969 http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=GdU5xcmer 3c

Fabregas, it would have been better for you to simply say Allah knows best instead of indulging in hearsays and rumours. Maxamed Siyaad (May Allah have Mercy on him) never denied Quranic ayaah, the burden of proof is on you. And no, "I heard it from so-and-so" will not suffice. Secondly, Marxism by lip was to win substantial aid from the Soviet Union to build the country. Somali Socialism and Russian Somalism were not one and the same. The Somali one was mostly based on Socalist principles that did not contradict the Islamic ones, hence the conjured-term "Islamic Socialism" He precisely said in an interview given in the early 70's: "For us, socalism is simply defined: it is a system in which the state takes primary responsibility for the poltical, social, and economic development of the nation." There is a reason why the Soviet Union switched the ties from Somalia to Ethiopia.

Dabshid, I wonder what our dear moderator would comment in terms of the boost in the education sector 1. In 1969 55,021 students were enrolled in all schools located in the country. In 1975, the number jumped to 240,550, which is an increase of 437% 2. In 4 years between the pre-revolution and post-revolution, there was an increase of 128% in elementary school enrolment which is equal to an annual growth rate of 32.1%. 3. Intermediate school enrolments increased 51% (21.8% annual growth rate). Secondary education enrolments rose overall by 63.8% (16% annual growth rate). 4. Before the Revolution, there were 6,412 secondary students of which 737 were girls. After 4-years of the Revolution, there were 10,500 students of which 1,773 were girls, considering girls; their enrolment increased 140.6% over the 4-year period. 5. Before the Revolution, there were 3 technical and 2 vocational schools in Somalia. After the Revolution (before 1978), there were 16 of them: 4 technical schools, 2 polytechnics, 3 nursing, 2 clerical, and 1 each for maritime, agriculture, animal husbandry, range management, and telecommunication technicians. 6. Before the Revolution (in 1969), there were 1,873 Somali teachers. Three years after the Revolution ( 1972-3) the number jumped to 4,486 teachers which was a rapid increase of 440% in teacher training. 7. Before the Revolution, there was not a single university in Somalia. After the Revolution, in 1972, a Somalia National University was established with five initial faculties (gradually expanded in 1974) in education, law, economics, agriculture, and the sciences were in operation. In 1974, faculties of medicine, veterinary, sciences, natural sciences, maritime sciences, languages and literate and fine arts were established. 8. Before the Revolution, intellectuals and academics still used the English or Italian terminological terms. After the Revolution, these terms were Somalized. 9. Before the Revolution, all textbooks and school books were written by foreign authors and printed in foreign countries. After the Revolution, Somalis had their own school and textbooks, written by Somalis and printed in Somalia. Between 1973 and 1976, the Ministry of Education published over 6 million text-books in Somali. 10. In 1975 alone, 1,180 class-rooms were built for primary education

Miskiin, you would think a moderator nevertheless would at least demonstrate some sort civility when conveying his messages. Tell me, Ya Miskiin, what are your Islamic credentials if you feel agitated about me referencing a single ayaah. It's quite unwise to presume someone's Islamic background, 'cause let me make it clear Ya Miskiin, surely and Islamically, I am not in the wrong here. I mean, it is quite simple to take the words of a deluded Evangelist about a deceased Muslim, but yet hard to conceive of his past accomplishments and practices. Good thing that we judge Muslims based on their outwardly actions, otherwise, every nut clannist with a grudge use it as an ammo in a spree of defamation. Going back to the points I have listed earlier. Miskiin, going by your previous posts, which are myriad of anti-Siyaad sentiments, I wouldn't certainly struck me as a surprise if you even denied his achievements altogether. I mean, hatred based on clannism can only reach that level. The Isbahaysiga Mosque was built with the assistance of Saudi Aid, is it such a principal factor that one has to negate who actually built regardless of where the aid money originated. The Isbahaysiga Mosque was built in 1974 by the Somali Government at that time. Aid was the initial boost up to get things going since there were so many sectors the previous government had to focus on. Your favourite news outlet you same to be in favour of quoting all the time mentions: Masjidkaan ayaa la dhisay sanadkii 1974 tii iyo intii u dhxeysa 1987, iyadoo maalgelinta masjidkaasi ay bixisay dowladda Sacuudi Carabiya. http://www.ssunion.n et/node/1090 Going back to my second point, Miskiin. One has to be in a complete denial to distinguish the influx of pre-1969 and post-1969. All it takes is a simple look at the influx of mosques being constructed from 1960 to 1969 (4 small ones) and from 1969 to 1975 (more than 150). Are you also going to deny the huge influx of students entering education from 1969 - 1975 in comparance to 1960-1969? You have conveniently failed to comment on the weekly Tafsir program initiated post-1969. Nevertheless the essence of the whole post and the previous one is to indicate the level that we stooped ourselves in to take the words of an Evangelist over a Muslim.

Clannism has blinded us to such a great extend that we have to take the words of a deluded evangelicalist, who in his own words 'believes' that the late Somali president was a closet Christian based on some 'archival' letters writing by a Christian organization? Good thing that some of us still adhere to certain Islamic principles when discerning the truth. For those, who without discernment, accepted this fable, I say to you as Allah (Exalted is He) said in His Qur'an, "Bring your proof, if ye are truthful" (Al-Baqaraj:111) Prior to 1969, Muqdisho had 4 miniature mosques. In 1975, Maxamed Siyaad built more than 150 medium-sized mosques including the largest mosque, which still stands to this day, the Isbahaysiga mosque. Prior to 1969, not a single Islamic lectures were broadcasted on the radio. In 1971, there was a weekly Qur'anic tafsir session on Radio Muqdisho. As for the executed scholars, a committee [guddi] was established and they subsequently ordered the execution of the scholars. The Family Law had a small issue that was not in par with the Islamic teachings, instead of the scholars advising the government (according to the methodology of advising the rulers), they staged an uprising. Bear mind that there was already an rule in effect that states that anyone who stages a demonstration without the knowledge of the government would face execution, plain as that. The committee ordered their execution, Maxamed Siyaad wanted to forgive them but did not to cause a rift between the institutions. I still possess the audio interview, delivered in 1975, that elucidates this issue in great detail. Salamu Calaykum

There you go, Somalinews has officially joined the ranks of dayniile and co. The report of him being imprisoned is nothing more than a sheer fabrication. Waagacusub.com: "Waxba kama jiraan in la i xiray,waxaa warkaas faafiyay shayaadiinta Shabaab,anigu waxaan joogaa Dooloow,waxaan ahay Xildhibaan ka tirsan DFKMG ,waxaana qorsheeynayaa inaan Kismayo ku laabto"ayuu yiri Korneyl Barre Hiiraale oo la hadlay Warbaahinta Waagacusub." http://waagacusub.com/news/Barre%20hiiraale.htm

If Maxamed Siyaad wanted to unleash chaos and mayhem on the Somali population and the nation he built, he wouldn't have provided the proposal for a ceasfire and a resignation when the USC rebels approached the city with nothing but onslaught as their intention. If Maxamed Siyaad wanted to destroy the Somali population, he wouldn't have devised plans and achieved goals that uplifted the neocolonalist tribal 60's to a Modern unified State of Somalia where minorities had rights, to putting Somalia on the map. If his main aim was to bring slaughter, he would have defended the capital city by all means necessary instead of leaving the city for the sake of the Somali residents who resided there. You have here the pro-Yuusuf supporters attempting to paint a positive light on the first clan-based group SSDF who were responsible for the first Ethiopian invasion in Somalia and the deaths of hundreds to thousands Somali citizens. Here is a news report published on the 31th of December, 1991 by Reader's Digest News where they clearly state that he asked for numerous ceasefires so that the people wouldn't suffer. Would you think someone "who was bloodthirsty and vengeful" would request ceasefires and options to resign? If these power-hungry rebels had the people at heart, they would have accepted his proposals instead of unleashing a full-fledged holocaust on the Somali population.

The fault lies with me for trying to level and reason with you.

Duke, either you do not have a grasp of the Somali language or you quote news reports that carry certain keywords that consildate with your views. You claim that they have invaded the city while Dayniile reports that the two clans live there. Dayniile also reports that no such looting took place. If you are going to quote dalkanews, then I want you to quote the rest of their articles concerning TFG. You either accept all their reports as trustworthy or you reject it. You cannot pick-and-choose and quote certain reports to validate your bigoted POV. The main question and argument is, what makes you REJECT your usual news-sources such as Hiiraan Online, Somaliweyn, etc and look for Pro-ICU sources to make a point?

Duke, please -- do not insult our intelligence. Your beloved AllPuntland in addition to the dozen Puntland sources reports that they have captured the city. What makes you look for a Pro-ICU website, particulary one which you have sentenced as unreliable for its Pro-ICU stance, to prove a point while youe usual "reliable" sources say otherwise?

Duke, your hypocrisy and double-standards have no limit, do they? At one point, you cry and sharply label the website Onkod as a pro-ICU propaganda piece full of fabrications and when it conveniently suits you, it suddenly becomes an authentic impartial news source. Hiiraan.com reports: Axad, August 05, 2007(HOL): Shan Ruux ayaa geeriyootay, labo ruux oo kalena dhaawac ayaa soo gaaray kadib markii uu maanta dagaal ku dhexmaray Degmada Jilib ee Gobolka Jubbada Dhexe Ciidamo ka tirsan Dowladda Federaalka iyo maleeshiyooyin ku sugnaa Degmadaas. Dagaalkaas ayaa wuxuu qarxay kadib markii ciidamo ka tegay Magaalada Kismaayo ay tageen Degmada Jilib, halkaasi oo ay horay u sii joogeen kooxo maleeshiyooyin ah oo ay is-qoomeen ciidamada ka tegay Magaalada Kismaayo. Dagaalka labada dhinac dhexmaray kadib ayaa ugu dambeyntii waxay magaalada Jilib gacanta u gashay Ciidamadii ka tegay magaalada Kismaayo oo la sheegay in uu hoggaaminayay Sarkaal lagu magacaabo Col. Cabdul Xiirey. Col. Cabdul Xiirey oo ka hadlay sababta keentay in ay dagaal ka ridaan Degmada Jilib, isla markaana ay gacan ku heynteeda la wareegaan ayaa wuxuu sheegay in Wasaaradda Gaashaandhigga Dowladda Federaalka ay ku amartay Guutadooda oo ah Guutada 3aad ay xarun ka sameysato Degmada Jilib, halka Guutada koowaad ee Ciidamada Dowladdana uu sheegay in loo diray Xerada Deynuunaay ee Gobolka Bay. Col. Cabdul Xiirey waxaa uu sheegay in maleeshiyooyinka ay ka ceyrsadeen Degmada Jilib ay ahaayeen kuwo falal burcadnimo ah ka geysanayay deegaano hoos-taga Gobolka Jubbada Dhexe, kuwaasi oo uu wax ka qaban waayay Maamulka halkaas ka jira. Si kastaba arrintu ha ahaatee, Xiisad ka dhalata Dagaalkaas ayaa la sheegayaa in ay weli ka taagan tahay Degmada Jilib, inkastoo Odayaal deegaanka ah ay ku howlan yihiin sidii ay u baajin lahaayeen dagaal kale oo labada dhinac dhexmara.. Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis), Hiiraan Online Let us see what OCHA (United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs) writes on the 3rd of August concerning road-blocks in Jilib. Roadblocks on various roads in South/Central have continued to impede access. A WFP convoy from Kismayo to Buale was held at a road block during the week in Jilib for three days by local militia, demanding passage fees. The trucks were eventually released after successful negotiations between the transporter and the militia. Restricted access along the transport routes in Middle and Lower Juba continue to cause delays in movement of humanitarian cargo. http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/EGUA-75QLDY?OpenDocument

Baardheere: Col. Barre Hiiraale oo ku hubeysan gaadiidka dagaalka oo xalay gaaray Baar Dheere. 15. Maj 2007 Baardheere(AllPuntland)- Col. Barre Aadan Shire (Hiiraale) oo ah xildhibaan ka tirsan dowladda KMG ah ayaa xalay gaaray magaalada Baardheere isaga iyo ciidamo aad u fara badan oo ku hubeysan gaadiidka dagaalka. Barre Hiiraale oo xilkii wasiirka gaashaandhiga horay u hayey ayaa laga qaaday kadib markii lagu eedeeyay xil gudasho la'aan, lamana oga socdaalka deg dega ah ee xiligan ugu ambabaxay magaalada Baardheere iyadoo wararku qaar ay sheegayaan in uu u sii gudbi doono magaalada Kismaayo oo taageerayaashiisa ay la wareegeen gacan ku heynta degmadaasi. Xildhibaan Barre Hiiraale oo tan iyo markii maxkamaddihii Islaamiga ay ka saareen gobolada Jubbooyinka ku sugnaa magaalada Baydhabo ayaa haatan ku soo baraarugay inuu booqdo halkii uu markii hore ka talin jiray. Cali Muxiyaddiin Cali AllPuntland, Muqdisho http://www.allpuntland.com/article/anmviewer.asp?a=2960&z=1

Col. Barre Hiiraale oo wata gawaari dagaal oo gaaray deg. Baardheere Baardheere 15, May.07 ( Sh.M.Network) Wasiirkii G/dhigga ee xilka laga qaaday Col. Barre Hiiraale oo wata gaadiid dagaal oo fara badan ayaa gaaray degmada Baardheere ee gobolka Gedo, xilli khilaaf xoogan uu ka taagan yahay gacan ku heynta magaalada Kismaayo. Xildhibaan Barre Hiiraale oo ay wehliyaan kolonyo gaadiidka dagaalka ah ayaa xalay abaarihii fiidnimo gaaray magaalada Baardheere ee gobolka Gedo, xilli dhowr maalin ka hor wareegto ka soo baxday xafiiska ra'isulwasaaraha lagaga qaaday xilkii wasiirka G/dhigga. Imaanshaha Col. Barre Hiiraale ee degmada Baardheere oo aan horey loo sii shaacin ayaa waxaa soo baxaya warar kala duwan oo ku aadan ka soo bixitaankiisa Baydhabo, iyadoo wararka qaar ay tilmaamayaan in ay la xiriirto sida uu marnaba ugu qanacsaneyn qaabka madaxda dowladda ay u maareeyeen xaaladda dalka ka taagan iyo isbadalkii dhowaan xilka lagaga qaaday, waxaana warar kale ay tilmaamayaan in uu u yimid degmada Baardheere sidii uu kulamo iyo wadatashiyo ula yeelan lahaa odayaasha iyo waxgaradka. Lama oga Col. Barre Hiiraale in uu u sii gudbi doono magaalada Kismaayo iyo in uu sii joogi doono degmada Baardheere, laakiin xiriir aanu la sameynayay Colonelka manoo suurto galin in aynu helno. Socdaalka Col. Barre Hiiraale ee degmada Baardheere ayaa ku soo beegmaya xilli ciidamo isaga ku heyb ah ay gacanta ku hayaan magaalada Kismaayo, ka dib markii ay ka saareen magaaladaasi ciidamo ka soo jeeda Puntland. http://www.shabelle.net/2007/May/n11592.htm

N/AA, the sources are from a database of e-books. Mj. bada Cas, this clearly demonstrates that you are one of these youngsters who from young on were imparted with propagandic thoughts like "M S Barre bad!", "SNM Mujahidun!" without actually questioning these statements. I am not sugarcoating anything; it is part of history and is researchable, just like how the atrocities of the SNM are widely documented. The reason that we are 'countryless' is not because of M S Barre, rather is it because of the rebel movements who duped the masses under the pretext of 'liberation' whilst they were hungry for power. To clarify this, let us look at the USC. The USC, upon capturing and "liberating" Xamar, started a cleansing program killing over tens of thousands Somalis in the first few weeks and over 500,000 Somalis in the long run. Caydiid wouldn't accept the idea that someone else beside him rule Somalia and started targetting his enemies who were once allied with him and killing over tens of thousands of Somalis. SNM also demonstrated this type of behaviour. Tuur who was the last chairman of the SNM group denounced the creation of 'Somaliland' after he lost the power struggle to Cigaal and fled to Xamar to become Caydiid's vice-president. Asteris Huliaras in The Viability of Somaliland: Internal Constraints and Regional Geopolitics writes: Mohammed Egal’s election was not without controversy. His first two years in office as President of Somaliland converted some of his adversaries into bitter rivals. In the second half of 1994, members of a clan militia clashed with the government and its ***** supporters. By the end of the year, the conflict had pushed large numbers of the capital’s population to take refuge along the Ethiopian border. Nevertheless, what looked like an endless and senseless feud between rival clans was to a certain extent a more classical conflict of power. Politicians who were defeated in the 1993 Borama election distributed money among clan militias to foment opposition to the new president and helped to promote fighting in the towns of Burao and Hargeisa (Compagnon 1998:85). http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/power.jpg It all comes down to thirst of power that has cost the lives of tens of thousands of Somalis. It was first initiated by Cabdulaahi Yusuf who created the first clan-based militia and attempted the first clan-based coup and the legacy continues with the warlords that roam around the streets of Xamar.