Yonis, Thanks for your efforts. What is the definition of the arabic word "Nasab"? As somalis, we use it to classify us and to set Somalis apart into privilleged and unprivelleged. Does our meaning or understanding of the word and how we use it correspond to what is meant by "Nasab" in islam? What is "casabiyah" btw? lol, bear with my questions saxib. If you read the history of Arabs, did they have a tribe or tribes among them considered ignoble? I also thought a slave was another name for a captive person who lost his freedom due to conflicts. They call that person a prisoner of war nowadays. So the inferiority of the person in the eyes of the captors(pre-islamic Arabs) was not justified in anyway. It was due to the captor's inhuman mentality and treatment that islam was addressing. Naturally, a healthy mind(a muslim) recognizes the equality of human beings regardless and that is why when Arabs accepted islam, slavery disappeared gradually. Alpha_Geeljire. Well saxib, it is nice you would marry such a girl and have no qualms about the marriage. However, you followed your good declaration with some form of retraction by asking why I would marry the said girl when I have more girls available to me from the so called my nasab clan. Are you contradicting your statement mise anigaa faduul raba oo macno aan meesha ku jirin kala soo baxay? lol. To answer your hypothetical question, my parents wouldn't care if I married a white muslim woman. I have my preferences as a person, but non of them are based on prejudist views.

Geeljire, you remind me of someone I had met online before in a discussion forum who claimed that muslims can't marry each other due to what he called Nasab differences. Meaning, nasab girl can't marry a man from a tribe falsely labeled as unnasab. Isma geeyaan in other words. I think the word was "KUF" or something akin to that. That guy was actually referring to some people he claimed were sheekhs. I thought he was spreading lies about islam and falsely telling us how it accepts such marriages only between nasabs and that a man can be rejected on grounds of his tribe being not equal to the One the girl hails from. What do you think of such beliefs/claims? You are the only superior around(or if there are other superiors they can jump in too) so there is no need to weigh your replies. Just fire away PS: On a scale of One to ten, ten being the highest, I am interested to the tenth to know if such claims made by that guy can be verified or justified by you or by anyone else who knows anything about this inequality supported by islam. You are a good candidate to ask such weird anomalies because when you demanded from other Somalis to see you as different and that only islam can unite you with them(contradictory indeed, why care about the unity), I recalled him. I am in luck now and have someone who can verify for me something as weird as that. Anyway, soo daa warka. I am interested.

Originally posted by Alpha-Geeljire: Walaalo, I disagree, I don't think all Somalis descendent from one man, and the faster we recognize our difference, the sooner we will see our similarities (mainly religion) and embrace them, and hopefully unite. That says it all. How about keeping your islam as well as it is no use to the rest who are, as you put it, DIFFERENT from you? Waxaanoo kalaa hoosta kaasoo galaaya hadhoow oo islaanimo been ah kuu muujinaaya isagoo khuraafaadkaan aaminsan. Originally posted by wind.talker: You know, under the elite reasoning theory "some" Somalis are from Arabia and you can tell because...(insert: bull$hit reason). And others waa dadka degaanka . So if they're dadka degaanka, maxaa degaankooda loogu haystaa? Why don't the Arab-claiming Somalis go back to Yemen - because, clearly, Somalia is not their land. Beledweyne, under the theory of elite reasoning, falls under the dadka degaanka category. How come Beledweyne-origin girls look more Arab than the others who claim to be of Arab origin? A lot of useless, boastful talk. P.S. I'm with Positive's take on this. Wind.Talker, You have my respect bro. Qofaan carabna u ekayn muuqaal ahaan oo mugdigiisa reminds others of John Grang's tribe, nor does he speak arabic, why embarass himself and claim to be an Arab? Wax ceebaa jira oo laga xishoodo. I suggest they(anyone claiming to be an arab) should focus on studying arabic from now on to make the claim look credible. One can hardly differentiate between somalis in looks yet amongst them are people like Alpha_Geeljire who would have you believe they are different from one another. Ilaahay nama waalo. SAXIB, ADAA ISHA KA TUUREY, waddanka hanooga guuraan Real Arab Somalis, like those who lived in Shibis, Xamarweyne etc are the only true Arab Somalis and are our brethren. You wouldn't see anyone questioning them for claiming to be Arab Somalis. Wixii wareersan ilaahay hasoo hanuuniyo.

Originally posted by Rahima: ^Oh why thank-you for being so understanding. How does one become opposition horta? --- To me, all are individuals, come from PL, SL or Mogadishu matters not. What matters are views. Sis Rahima, Just say or give some clues to your clan or city connection in Somalia and I will tell you whether you are an opposition or a supporter of this government automatically. I won't wait to hear what you have to say or it matters really. That is how it works. Also, If you happen to share a family connection to a high ranking tribalist political figure and express an unfavourable opinion about certain things he does or did, you become an outcast-like or are accused to be a religious fundamentalist who has some agenda of her/his own. So coming from the same family is not always indicative of your loyalty or disloyalty in the eyes of your fellow emotional clansmen. It is whether you offer support right or wrong regardless. If you are not connected in anyway to a leader, and your views are in line with common sense, you are still wrong because your disagreements have to do with your tribe being different from that of the high ranking official you disagreed with morally. You are caught in between mad people. Anyway, there is no escaping to the labeling in somali politics. The good voices are drowned by the pervasive insane popular ones. Your views as Rahima are excellent but are aimed at the wrong crowd with the exception of those who favour nontribal politics in Somalia.

CHE, The city needs the government with its head in town forcing change slowly and by their presence. The government should capitalize on people's frustration and be in town to show who is standing the way of progress and security. If A/Y can't come, he should send the bulk of the government in to test the willingness of people. Aidid Jr said will give the keys of the VILLA to the government, so why not come and take it as the first step? I think important members of the government like A/Y and Geeddi should show courage and test the waters of Xamar, see how much support people will grant. A/Y will have the same protection he has in Jowhar. The WARLORDS have no real cause unless given a cause to them by short-sighted policies. Picking a fight with them and pickering with them is empowring them. Yalaxoow won't be able to fight his community if majority of them support the government which they do. Atto represents his avarice and can be bought and silenced. These men shouldn't be treated as representative of a clan or part of a clan. Treating them like that will actually gain them support. Some government entities like shariif and like minded others are good people and would won't be presenting challenges since the government is fully in Town. Their positions of responsibility must be respected. If people's sentiments are of any indication, there are Radio stations where City residents actually call in to express their opinions and frustrations in Xamar, most residents really want to help the government and feel betrayed. Feeling betrayed is a good sign because it shows people expected better and will still lend a hand if their expectations are addressed. I don't think sitting Jowhar and being a guest to one Man will accomplish something or bring progress. Expecting Atto and others to make the town secure and fully functioning is pointless. It is a joke. Only the Government in its entirety present in town can bring the energy and the motivation towards successful transition to stability. That is what people hoped for in the beginning, that these leaders will come to town, claim their titles and be courageous enough to face the difficulties ahead of them. If A/Y tries and fails because of people he was willing to sacrifice for and help, then I don't see why other somalis should be concerned. After all, there is no particular clan or entity trully benefitting from the success of this government other than current residents of Muqdisho. As for the property issues, if government is successful, it will be easy to evict people who can't show proof of ownership to the properties they hold. Many homes are actually destoryed and gutted, many are inhabited but all in all, a strong hand of government utilizing islam and god fearing muslims will get everyone their missing property back. Marka hore dowlad ka dibna xoolo maqan. If you start with the second one, you are setting up yourself for a failure. Duke The second part of my earlier post dadkaa looga hadashiinaa nooh lol. The likes of Xiin Galti PS: Ramadan Kariim Everyone.

I guess there is a reason why so many tribes use "Hooyo" ama "Habar" as a unity instead of a "father" figure. I always wondered why the "Habar" or where is the "Father" for these nomads. This elite BS waa waxa qarribey soomaalida. Hadda laakiin no elite sheeko sheeko, hilibkaa la qalaa proudly. Indeed humility is a learning process. Caaqil LOL, makes a lot more sense.

Sayid maxamed Abdulle dhab may ka ahayd markuu lahaa Nebigaa wax ii galay? Thought that was a little too boastful.

The men who were supposed to challenge them are in Jowhar by choice, and for that reason, you can't blame the lack of progress and stagnation only on those you mentioned. A/Y isagaa marti iska dhigey but people were ready to fight for him and for his government. Isagana waxaa ka xun midkaan geeddi la leeyahay oo Xamar ku Dhashay. He should be campaigning day and night in Xamar stirring up the passions of people positively to put more pressure on any nay sayer. Instead, he is cooped up in Jowhar looking like a yes-man to A/Y. And what do we deal in here at SOL politics section? Mindless A/Y supporters who would attack you when you present a legetimate question to a screwed up policies just because the man behind the policy happens to be, oh yea, their distant seventh cousin.

LOL@BISHAARO, good question

As a man, it seems great to have more than one woman, any man who says he doesn't entertain more women at his disposal might be lying or being politically correct, however, as an individual, I find it difficult to envision myself maintaining more than one. If I can get one to do my bidding and everything I want, most of all Baarinimo and attentive ears to my advice, it will be enough. I will just have to find ways to manage my manly ego and train my eyes only on the one. I tell ya, it is difficult task to not like every woman lol.

Duke , that is the story in Xamar and I was told by someone who had no reason to lie unless they were lied to. There is confusion in situations like these but eventually all will be clear. Suldaanka According to some waziir of yours, it is not the locals but people considered outsiders(anyone who is not from the tribe). You don't pick on people who are weaker if you are in a postion of power. Middeeda kale, soomaaloo dhanaa lug ku lahayd wixii hore u dhacay including some of your own. You can't hang on to past injustices to do an injustice to others who are innocent. As for the women arested, I wouldn't let that happen without a fight And no, I am not advocating for northern Somalia to be waddo halaq mareen. People travel there nowadays enroute to ethiopia. They can find other transitional towns and bypass halaq dageenka. Anyway, here is a story on Yahoo News: HARGEISA, Somalia (AFP) - Authorities in Somalia's breakaway region of Somaliland have warned outsiders, particularly Islamic clerics, without legitimate business there to leave immediately following the arrest of several alleged Al-Qaeda operatives. In a crackdown ordered after the arrests of five suspected members of Osama bin Laden's network during a shootout with police on Friday, Interior Minister Ishmail Aden said non-Somalilanders illegally in the region would be deported. "I have instructed the (Islamic) clerics from neighbouring Ethiopia and Somalia to leave the country if they do not have legal papers and are not genuine businessmen registered by relevant authorities," Aden said. "Those who have commercial interest here may stay as long as they respect the laws of the land but others must leave as soon as possible," he told a news conference. "This is strictly a security issue." "The activities of outsiders and suspect (Somalilanders) will be scrutinized further for security purposes," Aden said, adding police in the region had arrested a total of five alleged Al-Qaeda members on Friday. On Friday, he said three suspected extremists, including "an internationally known" Afghan-trained Al-Qaeda leader, had been detained after police raids in the capital Hargeisa that followed tips from local residents. Three police officers were wounded in the shootout and Aden, while he declined to identify the suspects, told reporters that all five detainees were cooperating with police. Hargeisa's Ogal daily newspaper, meanwhile, said at least 100 people had been detained for questioning after the raid, but added that many had been released. Aden said the suspects had been plotting attacks in Somaliland on local leaders and foreigners ahead of elections scheduled for September 29 in the internationally unrecognized breakaway state. He said police had recovered a large cache of weapons and communications equipment from the men, many of which were displayed by state-run television on Saturday. Somaliland's self-styled president Dahir Riyale Kahin said Saturday that the suspected terrorists, who he claimed were based in Mogadishu, were extremely dangerous and praised the work of the security forces. "The terrorists who planned to wage attacks in Somaliland are trained and facilitated from Mogadishu," he said. "These terrorists are dangerous and planned serious attacks but their attempt was foiled by our people in uniform." Kahin said the men had arrived from Mogadishu separately and had been discovered just a day after renting a house in Hargeisa from where they intended to plan and carry out attacks. "I congratulate our security forces for the heroic operation they fulfilled by arresting these terrorists," he said, appealing for international assistance to help prevent extremist attacks there. Somaliland, in northwestern Somalia, unilaterally declared independence from the rest of the country after the 1991 ouster of strongman Mohamed Siad Barre plunged the Horn of Africa nation into anarchy. It is not internationally recognized but is seen widely as an island of relative stability in the lawless country which Western intelligence agencies fear has become a haven for Muslim extremist groups, including Al-Qaeda. In July, a respected international policy think tank said a group of Al-Qaeda-affiliated fighters led by an Afghan-trained militia leader had secured a foothold in Mogadishu and threatened to push Somalia deeper into anarchy. "The threat of jihadi terrorism in and from Somalia is real," the International Crisis Group said in a report that described the group as "a new, ruthless and independent network with links to Al-Qaeda." http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050924/wl_afp/somaliasomalilandattacksqaeda

Haweenka la xir xiraayo aawey raggii dhaley ama la dhashey?

Originally posted by Naku Penda Piya: But tell a man his little boy throws a ball like a girl, and see what happens. Bishaaro Bil Kheer, I would give the young boy a good beating for throwing the rock like a girl. A boy is supposed to be a boy in every sense, act like a boy, play like a boy, sit like a boy and talk like a boy. I am sure you wouldn't prefer the misguided approach some parents in the west take when their little boys behave contrary to men's biological norms. Such encouragement, thanks to the propaganda of the feminists, results in a disaster. No wonder some men of age with families seek sex change just because the devil breaths into their mind they are feminine deep inside and they have been denying themselves the luxury. PS: The world is a beautiful place with men being Men and Women being women. And if you ask me, the best thing we have as somalis are somali women. I think to take a tough stance against norms that blurr roles and confuse behaviours are important for the continuity of mankind without such stance being made as anti-women. As for the topic at hand, there are more qualified persons around from both sides with eloquence to represent a healthy view. I will happily read other people's contributions

Originally posted by Jumatatu: Xoogsade : Dam right. Wouldn't it be all over if he had to come tommorow from his refuge in Jowhar? But hey, the old man is battle hardened and very resolute according to his disciples in SOL. [/QB] The Ethiopians abandoned him and he couldn't master other support for his planned insane wars, so now it is down to basics and the dawning realization that he can only talk in today's environment. Other plans of community devisions didn't work either. Whatever he had in mind, he is forced to go back to the drawing boards and start anew. He will be in Xamar whether he likes it or not for this government to work. And he is coming with no single bullet fired contrary to his previous murderous ambitions.

Viking, you have done enough already. Thanks for your efforts. Should I come across a source that explains the matter in detail, I will let you know too. Take care saxib.

The people mentioned who came from Xamar were on their route to Ethiopia and onwards to Europe if possible. Their age are said to have been in their twenties. As for the Sheekhs they talk about, they are their neighbours whom they systematically arrest every now and then to extradite them to an enemy who will butcher them for their beliefs. Boosaasadoodaa loo qaatey.

Argagagixisada la sheegaayo maamulkaaba u eg masaakiinta laayey if the news is true.

Viking Warkaan waa igu cusub yahay, and that is typical of people like me who don't invest their time in studying what is the most important in their entire universe, their faith. Anyhow, to avoid being dogmatic, I am willing to accept such meaning as allegorical should I find or be shown some sources having the same view from the first three generations of islam. Do you have sources that discuss about this allegorical meanings relating to this Hadiith? Someone must have written their views somewhere for others to share I suppose? I am sure you are not the first to understand this hadith this way. It is an interesting explanation of the Hadith. Such meaning can be handy if we were to find out that the sects outnumber the 73 mentioned although I don't know if these sects were tallied all the way to 73 yet. Looks like someone had the idea and feared that "what if these sects are/become more than 73?", then they may have decided to give an allegorical meaning to the Hadith to avoid such obstacle, good intensions indeed lol. This is my conjecture of course, but I would appreciate if you can direct me to some sources I can read on this. I thought if there was a meaning to some verse or part of it, to some hadith or part of it, other than the obvious literal one, it was clarified and the meaning given already as was the case in some cases. Thanks saxib. Saxib, I can't say for sure that the universe was created in 50,000x6(days). Allah knows best. Besides, God could have created the entire universe and everything in it by saying "Be" and they would have "been" instantly. I hate to swim in a sea I can't swim through if you know what I mean? lool. Nimaan cabsanin waa loo cabsadaa saaxib. I like to keep it to the basics and leave the thinking for others. Earlier muslims can be trusted because the prophet pbuh indicated their goodness. It is safe to refer to them for the fundamental parts of our faith. Thanks bro.

All-Ubaahne, welcome back saxib, halkee ka dhacdey? Aragtidaada waa too clean for the present time. I developed the tendency to worry about people like you who seem way too stack in a forgotten prestine world bro. It is good to be clean in a world full of dirt. Anyhow, welcome back and peace be upon you.

The same articles can be used to give credit to Shariif for his motivation to learn a foreign language to communicate with outsiders. As for getting money from the outside communities, who doesn't? They were collecting money for A/Y the previous weeks. And there is a lesson for the corrupted minds in Reer Muqdisho's willingness to admitt the failure of the men among them. It takes Qalbi fiican to admitt such failures and demand changes.

Funny how some are already worried about the dwindling term of their uncle's presidency. No worries though, if A/Y's government succeeds without any wars, he will be voted in again, this time in a legitimate vote where everyone casts theirs in thanks to the government for bringing some sort of political stability. It all depends on what political decisions A/Y and his PM make and how they want to implement those decisions on the ground. Surely, there was no need to move to Jowhar and waste a whole year if they were coming back to town talking politics as they should to begin with.

Callypso, I am still confused as to why differing numbers should be viewed, understood to mean, or point to one conclusion. If the numbers 71,72,73 were supposed to mean just "large numbers", don't you think the prophet would have said Muslims will be devided into large numbers as jews and christians were devided into large numbers? A point can seemingly be interesting while it defies logic, and the "may be" thinking can invite too many problems. If it is simple, I don't want to complicate things for me.

Bro Viking, Thanks for your clarification. Just to let you know, I have no ulterior motives but want to find out why I seemingly have a different understanding than you do on this issue. I am interested in exploring what someone who is not a literalist would derive as a meaning from these sayings of the prophet if you know. Should I assume that the objective was to convey that too many sects will appear and too many people will enter heaven without being tested/questioned? You get to wonder what is the point of quantifying? Salafi-Dacwa presented some sort of enigma when he quoted the companions's question in want of clarification of the saved sect. From their understanding, the numbers meant something specific and they wanted to know which sect was the saved among the 73 sects. Another question I have for you about the sects, just because each one claims to be a saved sect, should I give them all the benefit of the doubt and treat them all equal in the eyes of islam? to me, their claim means nothing unless they support their views with evidence from islam without deviating the meaning and making it inline with a destorted view of theirs they hold dear. In reply to your suggestion that my interpretations have to do with or are influenced by who my teachers are, I must say I have no loyalty to anyone including people I respect and whom I would take their opinions as safe opinions. I don't treat someone, regardless of their knowledge of islam and their status as respected scholar, as infallible for my own safety in belief. I will abandon their opinion today if I come across another one more grounded with evidence and stronger than the respected scholars used previously. I simply use everyone as a means to my objective but not as a role model. The prophet is the Only role model I must emulate while others have my respect as fellow muslims and educated scholars and brothers in islam. Finally, thanks again for the examples you gave.

Viking, Now you basically buried a good topic. I learned few things already from reading it. I understood from Xiinfaniin's post that some muslims went off-track in their drive to effect perfect Tanziih. Both Bakar and Xiinfaniin have it right in my understanding. There are no hidden meanings here. The 70,000 are favoured with such passage by God and the 73 sects are as they are mentioned by the prophet.

So learning the doctrine of warfare and how to kill people is an education? It is a necessary skill vital to one's own defence and survival, however, such skill doesn't translate into an education the kind of which that makes a person a model citizen. A/Y was nothing but a pain to somali society and he is the first to start dismantling it by introducing insurrection and rebellion, the violent kind that ultimately somalis emulated. Aidid I suspect may have had the same education or more but he had nothing to show for it as well. As for studying law, wasn't that the penal code of the italian colony intended as law for somalis? War waa jaahil. But in fairness, others competing with him are no better. That is why I don't favour anyone or single him out. I give him what he earns through politics and chicanery. As long as he is not going to be violent, he is another somali man with the same ambition as that of his foes. Besides, reer mudug cilmi kastoo uu barto, the culture he brings to the table clouds any education he has. Waa qodax docda kaaga taagan weligaa. Unless they are Ahlu-towxid whose deeds are commandeered by their faith even though some of these ahlu-diin will always remain reer mudug themselves, they are failures. And I don't mean reer mudug to describe one single entity but anyone who hails from that region irrespective of tribe. I am simply biased against them although my grandfather left Galkacyo 85 years ago. I blame them for everything that is wrong with our country.