Hunguri, I am aware of that. I was justifying the praise somalis of yore heaped on their beloved animals. Trying to highlight the historical facts misrepresented by Socod-Badne and putting that history into perspective. And I agree with you, women affair got simpler nowadays. It doesn't require that much work to impress them. Some white teeth, a cool slung, few funny jokes and they are all yours. It doesn't even have to be a diamond ring but a gold chain with her name on it tata Why work for forty years only to give away all your wealth and start anew again huh? lol.

^ ^ What should I try again? Do I need to justify the she-camel praise? History teaches us not long ago one had to have hundred she-camels to get married or some paid that much in exchange for a woman's hand. Socod-Badne misrepresented the love-affair between earlier somalis and their she-camels, they worked hard only to give their life'work in return for a woman. See, No somali man has to pay that much for a woman today. They believe in the equality scheme and ask for equal contribution like 50/50 at best if not paid for by the woman(if the guy is afmiinshaar). If she loves the guy, hasoo booddo is the mantra.

Originally posted by Socod_badne: Somali poems aren't really "disrespectful" of somali women, they simply prefer them to she-camels. This is what's eating them up. I don't blame them. More poems are dedicated to she-camels than to somali women. No wonder the poor things detest their men. Perhaps the She-camel was what enabled young somali men of yore to marry the woman they wanted the most and without it(she-camel), their wishes may never have come true. So love and praise of she-camel equated love of women The main reason for earning wealth and working hard into the forties was to land that woman you wanted, what more praise could they ask for?

Coolly written with very articulated facts, thanks Castro saxib. Do you visit "www.counterpunch.org"?, "antiwar.com"? or "lewrockwell.com" which is cool too lol. I think the US might bomb Iran before Bush's term ends and the repercussions will be felt acutely the world over. The world economy might collapse in no time.

Originally posted by Cara: Who says marriage is supposed to be exciting? Ever heard of the term "sowing your wild oats"? You're supposed to get all fun out of the way before getting down to the grim business of shackling yourself to a tolerable man/woman for the rest of your life. The reason so many marriages fail nowadays is because people like you have the wrong expectations about them. If you want excitement after marriage do what everyone does: have an affair. Some wisdom with the exception of the affair supposedly making one's life exciting after marriage. I think one has to be indifferent about the consequences and be fully detached from his partner to have an affair and feel good about it. Yea, some people are weak and I can understand the human element in their infidelity, but there is no rejoicing in that I think. Looking in the eye someone you have cheated on does put a burden on one's conscience. There is no joy in cheating. So best advise is the one you gave at the beginning and people prepare themselves for a life of compromise and control their selfish wishes. Human beings are not perfect but having control over their desires gives them a somewhat manageable life. It doesn't surprise me how marriage is viewed to be grim by many. If you are marrying the same man you loved, what is the difference? It is how people think of marriage rather than marriage itself being grim, bad, scary or problematic. Accepting responsibility and taking charge if you are a man is the key.

Bokero, Altavista generated sources for the "Bokero" word and I quickly leafed through the first best option according to the headline. At the bottom is says "Kinjikitile "Bokero" Ngwale is surprisingly revered as a hero today by the people of Tanzania, even by the warlike Ngonis." As a result of the so-called Scramble for Africa among the major European powers in the 1880s, Germany had ended up with several colonies on the "Dark Continent". These were German East Africa (currently Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, and part of Mozambique), German Southwest Africa (present-day Namibia), Cameroon, and Togoland (today split between Ghana and Togo). I am curious about your emotional connection to that movement? Were you born in Tanzania? Or just you love East African history although The only country mentioned in Tanzania. PS: If you get upset real quick, you won't survive here too long.

Alle-Ubaahne, not a smart move. You just gave a nice topic to A/Y supporters to cleanse this man by arguing you can't call a muslim kaafir. All of a sudden, he will be our imam and we have to pray behind him. Think before you write. I never bothered about A/Y's faith as that is not a factor in all he did for the last thirty years. If indeed Islam was a factor in this man's life, he wouldn't be who he is today, so islam is not a subject to be botehred with when it comes to A/Y. why not treat him as he presents himself? A murderer, a thug, a warlord, jaahil badaw ah and etc. There are plenty of adjectives he quite comfortably fits in.

- Dabshid, thanks for taking the time saxib to get the point I was getting at. - Jimcaale, the first page is available. I had the same experience before. Log in and out again when something like that happens. I had to refresh the page few times to see the recent posts. Can be a glitch.

What is the meaning of "Bokero" anyway? I forgot to ask that earlier.

Afmadow/Dhobley clansmen are even targetted in muqdisho. First day Ethiopians settled in Muqdisho seaport a man who was born, raised, and educated in Muqdisho and who worked in the port was arrested after someone accused him of being ONLF. Last week they killed two men who were teaing in Bakaaraha Market. The clan militias who murdered them knew the teashop was owned and frequented by these somalis who hail from sayid mohamed's clansmen. They are targetted everywhere opportunist somalis who shine Ethiopian boots rule, exported and tortured by the planeload whenever the opportunity presented itself to these stooges in clanfiefdoms. Waa qabiilka kaliya oo waddinayada daacad ka tahay iyo soomaaliya jeceelkeeda. Barre Hiiraale never bothered these people even though they had disagreements with him from time to time. Each kept to their domain. NaxarNugaaleed. You and Duke epitomize what is wrong with the TFG and its supporters.

Bokero has a point Abu-Geeljire. It has to be some form of genetic defection that forces somalis to be backward thinking collectively. Few of us ever benefit from their education and give up the clan servitude. Can you explain a PHD holder supporting a warlord who can't write? Bokero Welcome, may be you can become a moderating force and talk some sense into all of us

Jimcaale, lol @ "anta calal hawaa", Anyway, jack up the volume right after he says "actihum maa tasha", twice or thrice after he says "Yaa walad", you will hear him say quick "war waxan reer hebel". Codka dheeree if there aren't people around sleeping anyway.

Bilan, I didn't complain of any trouble in typing all I wrote to you. I wrote it with Gusto and relished the occassion. I also explained the credibilty part to debunk the myth that someone holds a position or had held a position for a regime makes him/her respectable or dishonorable. People earn or lose the respect despite their job titles. I didn't get the part of me hating/loving people who are not related/close to me. If you mean the TFG members, I don't like any of them be they from Qansax clan or Qurac clan. I said I didn't invite you because you gave me a valedictory sort of speech like "oooooh, i can't be bothered to reply back and I am done " I want you write back. Half a sentence is good, a complete paragraph is even better lol. Tata.

Mystic, They need money to support the troops. The countries who hold the power of the purse put conditions on the Warlords. The arrival on the troops will depend on the political situation and how warlords perform. As usual, the future hangs in the balance and the people expected to save the day are the same old purveyors of hate and disagreements. I would be surprised if anything tangible comes out of Somalia any time soon.

Bilan, you invited yourself to comment and you are always welcome to air your concerns if you may. As for the man, he volunteered and went on air knowing he will be accountable for what he says both in susbtance and behaviour and was defending an organization he belongs to. I am different from him in that I hold no responsible position in the TFG. Public figures are treated differently from private citizens. I don't need to know them prior. As for the past records of people, you need to reread what I said if you care before you imply I am not normal just because you are upset with the subject at hand. You seem to have missed the point. Serving a regime doesn't give one particular credibility. It is a job one is given or apply for and they get and they do perform either honestly or dishonestly. Likewise, just because someone was a member of a failed regime doesn't make them lose credibility if they maintained personal clean record. I can't make it more clearer than that. But it would be nice if you stuck to your pledge of silence as I don't want to explain again to you that I didn't invite you to comment to begin with. It is public forum afterall PS: If the man is closer to you familywise, I can understand your reaction. My apologies then. I might have reacted the same way somewhat feeling stung by the comments. But the man being a public figure invites comments from everyone who has an opinion about what he does or says.

Brown, yaa kale, he is reer-hooyo, I don't know the particular subclan out of those clans he belongs to but my guess would be Sheekh Uweys's. He is the head of the BBC. If you want to know someone's clan who was/is hated and criticised or vilified by duke, caamir, xalane and all teh usual clanish fellas in here, you can bet that person hails from one CLAN ONLY. You will make no mistake.

Bilan, The ministership labeling was an error but hardly anything worthy of a note. The TFG have more ministers than the civilized world anyway. The title means nothing but what and who the person serves is. I could have editted if I cared that much about his position. What matters is how he serves an organization of crooks and defends them for his political interests. I doubt he would come to their defense if he was by-passed for the post. It is important to understand that serving prior regimes doesn't give people any credibility or takes credibility they had away from them as long as they didn't committ a crime. Teeling us his record is nothing, what he said on the clip is at issue and who he stands for today. The clip speaks for itself.

^ The brittish understands their clanish sentiments very well, After all, the brittish used people like them to devide and rule somalis in the colonial days. Same old stories of somalis being loyal to their clan interests rather than to a national cause. keep up the tradition of servitude to your clan Duke.

His past makes him more susceptible to corruption. Protecting his interests and sacrificing principles doesn't make him credible. He epitomizes the TFG. Good on them.

What they don't understand is how the BBC serves the interests of the Brittish. It is a voice for western interests so they are wasting their time expressing their clanish sentiments in the cold.

Dabshid, There is always a better alternative. The idea that every crook tauted as our last hope misses the important point -----> Eradication of the ills from our society. The same men who are responsible for these ills and who came to power through those same ills of clan devisions and hatred can not and will never be able to accomplish what we need as a society. Brotherhood, equality, respect for one's religious freedoms and not persecution on behalf of nonmuslims is what we need. The TFG cronies aren't cut for these tasks. At best, their clanish organization is a temporary break from violence if it succeeds before somalis take aim at each other again. It is a matter of time before clans feel undermined by corrupt system of nepotism and greed. So, why sign on to something we know from experience will fail time and again? Are we doomed to suppor the worst men of our society all the time? Caqliyaa loo baahan yahay. Taliban. They can't answer that question.

^ Xalane, It is the likes of you who came to Muqdisho on Ethiopian tanks massacring kids of Muqdisho. Everybody knows it. The courts were there before an no single person was murdered and if it happened, they served justice to the victims. It is the clan militia of the TFG raining mortars on town. Reer Muqdisho know that for a fact sicne they are the ones being abducted from theri homes nightly as well by these same TFG clan militias. Criminal minded somalis like you doesn't care about others and would justify as long their murder.

^ You got what you wanted, the murder of children by your clan militia raining mortars on Muqdisho. Tough job to defend such coward acts and massacre, but try, only result is for us to imagine the blood of the innocent drip from your mouth every time you justify their death.

Taliban, Keep up the good honorable contribution you make with your cool-head saxib. Aniga waxaan jeclahay inaan isticmaalo the language these clanists understand and they are fond of. It gives me a room to manouver and act like them because waa diideen in islaamka iyo walaaltinimada aqoonsadaan And I still look good and better than them We replicate here, me and these tfg supporters what is going on in Somalia in a way, them justifying the death of others and refusing to acknolwledge other people need the same basic necessities they and their families have, peace, security and dignity. They were happy when Muqdisho was invaded and openly supported the Xabashi army. Haddana waxay rabaan inay naga dhaadhiciyaan wax la yiraahdo "nation" and "government". TFG will remain theirs and it is only time before Muqdisho resorts to the islam which saved it from the grip of death. The TFG would have succeeded if it repreresented the interests of the common man no question about it, but it doesn't. A/Y is still refusing to acknowledge the differences that exist and said he disagrees with the EU AND USA on what they suggested to him about reconciliation. Jaahilkaan intuu madax yahay nabad ma imaaneyso. Wuxuu yiri Ma ii cuntameyso arrimaha ay soo jeediyeen Gaalada ee dib u heshiisiinta ku saabsan. Read here if you know somali: http://www.shabelle.net/2007/February/n10428.htm

^ Well, accordng to Caamir, Muqdisho residents are savages, their death is progress for his clanish vision of submissive Somalis to his Uncle. See how he justifes their death by giving sweet tips to his TFG. You can tell when he is irked, he resorts to clan insults and forgets to keep the superficial facade by Quoting an article inwhich the clans he hates so much are mentioned Some people never learn from history or have interest in abiding to Allah's laws. Just watch and see how far removed the TFG supportes are from realities and keep justifying the murder and the mayhem of other somalis.