Originally posted by nabadshe: As i would like to believe, that MR. superflous but dadku ma xoolaa? dont they have waxgarad who can come out and blame this act?. Some business people visited the jails as I heard along with few elders who expressed their sympathy. Puntlanders are of two groups saxib, Kuwana waa kuwa halkaan munaafaqnimada la taagan oo kale, oo Cade Muse iyo C/Y wax walba ku raacsan, kuwana waa kuwo la heystayaal ah oo naftooda u cabsado. All Cade muse will do is deliver them to the Xabashi dogs encamped in town if they make a noise. Inshallah Muqdisho will be free again so Puntlanders who can't put up with the slavish Cade Muse' abhorrence can come and live with free conscience.

Originally posted by nabadshe: There is a world somali congress based in Canada. Somalis should come under one umbrella to face the enemy. Then we will sort our differences Later. God Willing. This "sorting out our differences later" isn't bad at all. If we get rid of Xabashis, and I hope we do that soon before they buy and bribe their opponents, and we end up with one unified government based on islam, will Somalilanders accept to come to the negotiating table and ditch their search for independence? I am asking this because I will always support a somali leadership who rules by islamic laws against any regional clan based leadership who wants to devide somalis. This is a thorny issue, but I hope nabadshe knows what he said when he wrote "let us sort our differences later"

^ Did-Kong, "King" was a mistype. It is easy to defeat your points as they are self-defeating and contradictory, but I choose to let you think you have made an indomitable argument. I have already been harsh to you once not realizing you were the softer sex. If you were a man, you would have paid a heavy price once more Ladies win. PS: Clan is not a factor when it comes to A/Y. His methods are. He gets accused of clan bigotry because that is how he comes across when he talks. His past is problematic so it is easy for his opponents to use it against him and his present doesn't differ much, if not actually worse, than his past anyway. He can blame no one. He makes silly comments and threatens directly on air the average residents. Meesha caqli kuma haayo odaga, a warlord is always a warlord. And the fact that the Xabashis are the shelling the town and killing the same people he wants to rule is nothing less than suicide for him.

Did-King, Farax-Brown eloquently expressed the same sentiments I have towards the TFG. I may only add to his comments that Xabashi presence in our country has already demonstrated its short-comings and failure to benefit the TFG. Unless laboring under some delusions, anyone can see how Xabashi involvement in Somali politics destroys chances of success. As we have seen in the last few days, A/Y, Geeddi and Jeelle, men who are allied against clans they deem hostile, won't settle differences with their opponents through dialogue but would rather call women and kids terrorists to have them slaughtered by the Xabashi troops who fear for their objective and future in Somalia. The Ugandan troops maintain visible presence and no one has attacked them. Xabashis can not be trusted by all somalis except, and demonstratably on SOL, A/Y supporters. Therefore, since Muqdisho is not Puntland, and Xabashi troops are considered foes by the average resident in Muqdisho, why not take them out of the city and replace them with what people accept? This might expediate AU troop arrivals. Not that I agree with foreigners in my hometown and Somalia, but just accepting the realities on the ground now. Perhaps you lack the open-mindedness and the acculturation to seek to understand and accept viewpoints different from your own Narrow-Mindedness is debilitating in its effects, but you are asking me to accept what is going on in Muqdisho of mass-burials and massacre, and to show an understanding to indiffirent SOLERS calling for more of the same massacre to continue. That is NOT an open-mindedness. Lastly, I had an open-mind once and gave the TFG the benefit of the doubt keeping my distance from their filth when there was no islamic movement. My decision was to let somalis deal with the TFG since they were content with it or rather had no alternative. But as G.K Chesterton once observed "An open mind, like an open mouth, should eventually close on something", I had to close my mind and come out forcefully against the TFG which on its behalf, our best chances of peace and brotherhood was utterly destroyed. PS: I have wasted my time consdering how far removed you were from realities in Muqdisho asking why I or anyone would oppose Xabashi presence, however, I wrote for the record one more time. And don't bother with my unintellectualism or lack of culture. I prefer my way of dealing with people who have no respect for people's lives and concerns so long as who is being killed and maimed hails from not Puntland.

^ You must live in CT Zone to pray Maqrib at this hour , hoos aan u dhaadhacaa aniga xataa, habeen wanaagsan.

^ Perhaps sophistication is another word for bigotry.

^ If you apply the same logic TO the TFG, they are as disqualified. You mention warlordism and blood of the innocent being points to consider to disqualify the ICU, yet A/Y has blood on His hands, a career warlord and mutineer, first man to get into bed with enemy of the somali state, anti-islam, and you are comfortable calling him a president because you are bound to him.

We note who has demonstrated somalinimo in times of need and Somalilanders have proven to be Somalis in every sense of the word. What matters is what we, those of us who hail from outside Puntland, think of thier gesture and show of kinship. The violets, the dukes, and those who left Somalia aged under ten, yet are so full of hate due to their twisted upbringing, have no say in this matter. I, as Aydiid's clansman, proud of my heritage, thank Notherners for their show of concern and brotherhood.

^ The whole drive to impose the TFG on Somalis is to avoid anything resembling islamic governance to take hold in Somalia. The war was waged against somalis accused to be terrorists by Ethiopia and Washington. Don't you remember how the entire world left the TFG to rott in Baydhabo chased from everywhere by warlords who are now the darlings like Maxamed Dheere? When islamic laws were introduced and applied in Muqdisho, the whole world came to aid the only nonlislamic entities they knew existed in Somalia which is the TFG. So, how are the same hypocrites gonna rule with the devine laws they reject and fought? Besides, in case you are not aware, there is no single respected individual on the side of the TFG. They lost whatever respect they had before people knew where they stood.

Your target audience must be the Xabashi lovers like you. No sympatheitc ear shall you find among somalis. A luntaic A/Y is, no need to disprove anything. And don't insult somalis calling this stooge warlord a somali president.

I quote a List of Muslim Scientists, not all are listed but this will encourage peacenow or anyon else intersted to read more of islamic history. Each man's name will lead to a link talking about him and hiw work. Astronomy Muslim astronomers Taqi Al-Din, Ottoman astronomer Al-Khawarizmi, Also a mathematician Ilugh Beg, Also a mathematician Omar Khayyam Al-Farghani The rest can be accessed at the main link at Wikipedia At the bottom. Chemistry Ahmed H. Zewail, Nobel Prize, 1999 Abu Musa Jabir Ibn Hayyan, (Geber) Geography Muhammad al-Idrisi, also a cartographer Mathematicians Muslim mathematicians al-Samawal Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi Jamshid al-Kashi Abu Kamil Abu Sahl al-Kuhi Abu Bakr al-Karaji Al-Khwarizmi (Al-Gorithm) Abu Nasr Mansur Ahmad ibn Yusuf Al-Jawhari Al-Kindi Alhazen Biruni Omar Khayyám, Persian poet, mathematician, and astronomer. Nasir al-Din Tusi, 13th Century Persian mathematician and philosopher Medicine Abul Hasan al-Tabari - physician Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari - physician Al-Zahrawi - physician Avicenna, (Ibn Sina) also a philosopher Saghir Akhtar pharmacist Rhazes (Al Razi), also a chemist Physics Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi, 9th Century Arab mathematician Averroes, 12th Century Andalusian mathematician, philosopher and medicine expert Al-Jazari, 13th Century civil engineer Mahmoud Hessaby, 20th Century Iranian physicist Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie, 20th Century Indonesian aerospace engineer and president Abdus Salam, Nobel Prize, 1979, Pakistani physicist Ibn-Al-Haitham Retrieved http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ujOyKhKRw&mode=related&search= A beauty we might never see any time soon. We might never see somalis in submission and in service to their God in large numbers as shown in the clip any time soon. We miss our heroes.

Notherner, Assuming you are referring to the neutrals like Bashi, They are waiting for a favourable circumstance to thier political views. If there is a ceasefire for example and it holds, A/Y comes out of insignifance, makes the right comments(which he never does), and for some unexplainable reason all parties agree or seem to agree to sit and talk, that is when you will see the neutrals voice their opinion. For now, no one with conscience can come out to support what is going on. The TFG has disappointed. Anyone who supported that organization and who has some conscience left hides saxib.

They are using our country as they please and ordering its people around like they own them. Somalia is indeed gone. This is bothersome.

Sakhar, One can never go wrong about A/Y being a hateful bigot and a mentally deranged individual. You and I know both Somalia's president is Zenawi, Somalia's Prime minister is Zenawi and Somalia's defence minister is Zenawi. Peace depends on Zenawi so is war dependent on him and on his US sponsors. Zenawi is calling Media owners of Muqdisho in order to broker peace on his behalf either to buy time to re-ignite the war or avoid embarrassment. A/Y is a nonentity so is everyone else in the TFG evidently. They are pawns in a deadly game and evil design for their country to be annihilated or reduced to rubble, occupied and owned. PS: I am taller than anyone of you above me who on record wept when Xabashis were slaughtered, laughed and came to the forum acting triumphant when somali mothers in Muqdisho were massacred, I am taller than xabashi-spokespeople who display despondency when there is a day's break of violence in Muqdisho. You don't have to remind me of my credibility because I will never loose credibility with you all as a group of somali-kusheeg. I don't need your respect as a group. We have nothing in common as events testify.

The clip is avaibale every where, you can check that in here too A/Y'S hate just like SOL supporters of his A/Y says what you guy SOLERS who hail from his subclan spew in this forum. You all support his clan wars and are open of your hatred for other clans Just like he is. You have no shame and will still come back here and write more of the same bigotry.

Both are buying time I think. The Xabashis can not be trusted and these elders are falling into a trap one more time.

Originally posted by Paragon: Alley lehe Siilaanyo waa rag ah! Oo uu dhiig Muslinimo iyo Soomaalinimo ku jiro! Allaa Yacizak! Raggu kala duwanaa! kala damiir wanaagsanaa! He is no Coward like Riyaale, He obviously doesn't care what Melle thinks of his condemnation. Riyale simply is sycophantic. This war, though tragic, and if won completely, will benefit all somalis including Puntland. Ethiopia will think twice again before it wages a war inside a somali town on behalf of a favoured warlord.

Khalaf, "reduced" not in the literal sense but metaphorically speaking. You are not interested in explanations obviously and I don't care since I do not value your judgement of my character, but that is how the word was employed. Don't you think though, for conversation's sake, if I was like you, so enamoured with the clan myth, I should have registered "Jalaf" for a username instead of "Xoogsade"?? It doesn't bother me saxib to be labeled a clanist, and You have failed if you thought I would be bothered. I have extreme hate for A/Y and despise his supporters the same way I always have had an extreme hate for the warlords of my clan(ceydid's) and despised their supporters. I was so overjoyed when they waged a war on Qeybdiid and disarmed the clan militia I belonged to. I felt vindicated. When my relatives wavered in their support and claimed our clan was being targetted by men from Cadado and Dhuusomareeb under the guise of religion, I didn't pay attention to such claims. I knew where my loyalty was and should be. We even had deaths in our family, unjustifiable deaths alleged to have been orchestrated by SOME elements who donned the red Cimaamad the morning the war started against Qeybdid's clan. I didn't hold the ICU responsible. My clan is whoever fights for a good cause among somalis. I join them, support them, advocate for their cause as long as I see shared interests. I am quite comfortable in my position and have no apologies to offer TO anyone. I am a clanist to some, I am an islamist to others, I am anarchist, I hold looted homes in my possession etc etc. So be it.

Originally posted by Khalaf: quote:Originally posted by Xoogsade: You are a minority among your clan yet you have reduced their good name to nothing. Care to elaborate on what that means xoogsade? [/QB]Not all your clansmen are Xabashi spokespersons on SOL, yet, and too often, the entire clan is directly or indirectly accused of vassalage to Xabashis. So, why don't the Tigre Xabashi spokespeople like Duke and Taako and cronies have some deceny and stop embarrassing their fellow clansmen? they surely sound the Tigre men I have read in Ethiopian forums. Go read the website posted and see the stark similarities between A/Y supporters and Xabashis.

^The point is, you, duke and the rest of A/Y cronies sound a lot like the Tigre Xabashis in Ethiopian forums. What gives? How come you write verbatim like them? Aaway dadnimadiinii? Diintii meeday? Qabiilkaad ka dhalateen yaad sharafta ka qaadeen. You are a minority among your clan yet you have reduced their good name to nothing.

^ LOL, easy Dhulqaranayn, OLOL is hot air and nothing. Don't take him serious bro.

^ You display an inferior quality to the giants you can never size up to. It is your choice to be at the bottom saxib, don't blubber and lie about Allah almighty as your expressions tesitfy to your lack of knowledge about him. Did Allah send Amxaaro to massacre kids and women in Muqdisho? Wasakhda qalbigaaga ka buuxda yaad cadaysatay.

Xogogaal, You never lose when your reward is one of two best results, defeat your enemy and enjoy the victory, or meet your god dignified and faithful. Those who die in the war will be remembered as heroes of our time, those who fought and survived, defeated or not, will also live with courage and dignity knowing fate has ruled against them, and we thank them as well for letting the Xabashis know, not all somalis are cowards and faithless who choose vassalage over freedom. This leaves us with one ignoble group of somalis, faithless, bigotted, unpatirotic, they are those who supported the Xabashis and A/Y.

PeaceNow, Some islamic countries that I can recall who are performing well are Malaysia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Kuwait, Qatar and Bahrain, all progressive islamic countries. Not perfect but doing well. These countries are not humiliated but stand tall among the nations. Islam doesn't seem to hinder their countries' progress. If you look at Africa, there are many examples of nonislamic countries suffering greatly from corruption, violence and backwardness, our neighbour Ethiopia being one, very poor, Aids infested, corrupt and too violent that it transports the violence to other countries. That is all they know, to be violent. Freedom, christianity and being the vanguard of Western interests for a thousand plus years have given that country little to boast. With our islam, we(somalis) were once a nation of great potentials, almost all literate, literacy extended to the nomadic lady tending to her camels who was given a chance to read and write under an acacia tree, with her animals waiting at a distance while she mastered the art of writing, poor nation we were but progressive. The regression and all the humility we face today is a culmination of many things which have nothing to do with islam. In fact, there is lack of islam in Somalia than there is the need to disassociate ourselves from it. Our problems are not islamic based but clan based. You already know your answer from your visits to the Politics section. Lastly saxib, assuming you have beef with religion per se and think it inhibits progress, I must inform you that islamic scholars of ancient, obeying the directives of the quran to study nature in order to glorify god, laid the scientific foundation the world reaps its fruits today. They collected knowledge of otehrs, translated and expanded on it, invented and taught selflessly to any nation and people who would learn and listen.