I wonder if the tfg supporters on SOL actually read news like this?

The Rise and Fall of Mogadishu’s Islamic Courts Cedric Barnes, SOAS and Harun Hassan, SMC • Multilateral efforts to support Somalia have been undermined by the strategic concerns of other international actors – notably Ethiopia and the United States. • Security in Somalia’s capital, Mogadishu, has severely deteriorated since the US-backed Ethiopian intervention in the country. • The Islamic Courts, which were ousted, had strong support in the country but fell victim to the influences of ‘extremist elements’ within the country and an Ethiopian power eager for the Courts’ downfall. • The standing of the Islamic Courts was damaged by their defeat but the subsequent disorder has served to make their time in control appear as a ‘Golden Age’. • Support for the Courts has been fairly consistent for over a decade and is unlikely to melt away. Read on this intereting report by Chatham House which Invited A/Y last year in London. http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/pdf/research/africa/bpsomalia0407.pdf

Ciidamada Itoobiya oo weeraro xoogan kusoo qaaday aagaga Hotel Ramadan iyo Hotel Towfiiq. Muqdisho 26 Abriil 07 (Beerdhiga ) Wax yar ka dib salaadii subax ayey ciidamo Itoobiyaan ah oo ku hubeysan Taangiyo badan iyo madaafiic culculus weeraro xoogan ku qaadeen xoogaga muqaawamada ee ku sugan aagaga Hotel Towfiiq iyo Hotel Ramadan, halkaas oo ay kala kulmeen iska caabin xoogan oo kaga timid xoogaga muqaawamada ee halkaa ku sugnaa. Ka dib markii dagaalku saacado socday waxay ciidamada Itoobiya horey ugu gudbeen dhinaca Ramadan meel aan wax badan ka fogeyn warshada Baastada iyo Ex- Control, dhinaca Towfiiqna waxay u gudbeen qeybo ka mid ah suuqa Towfiiq oo ay ilaa iyo hadda dagaal xoogan kula jiraan xoogaga muqaawamada. Lama oga ilaa iyo hadda khasaaraha kala gaaray labada dhinac, waxaase ku xasuuqmay madaafiicda ay ridayaan ciidamada Itoobiya dadweyne badan oo rayid ah, waxayna saaka madaafiicdaasi ku hoobsadeen laba Bas oo ay saarnaayeen dadweyne badan. Waxaa saaka xiligaas dagaalku bilowday ilaa iyo hadda dul guuxaya magaalaa Muqdisho diyaarad mareykanku leeyahay oo ah nooca loo yaqaano AC 130 oo la filayo in ay si toos ah u hageyso ciidamada Itoobiya ee dhulka ka diriraya. Weeraradan waxay kusoo beegmayaan xilli uu wada hadal u socday odayaasha Beelaha ****** iyo Saraakiisha Itoobiya ku saabsan sidii loo gaari lahaa heshiis xabad joojineyd. www.Beerdhiga.com

Originally posted by Paragon: quote:Originally posted by me: Xoogsade, waan kaa gafay! Japanese hadii aan ahaan lahaa, tooreey ayaan iska taagi lahaa, Bal tooreeyda soofee marka hore. Markaad diyaar tahayna nala soo xiriiri aan kuu soo daawasha tagnee . One a serious note though; how very noble of you to apologize. Nin rag ah iga dheh. Xoogsadana would accept your apology hadii kale isaguuba xaal cusub fuuli doona. Ragbey qayilaad meesha uga bislaan doontaa . I didn't feel offended at all. Waa fiican tahay in lagu qabto qaladka qofkii balaayo iska dhigo Meeshaan cafis ma jiro, one mistake, and one becomes the talk of sol-politics-town for few weeks No apologies needed because I am not perfect.

It is all About Ethiopia Knows this, Ethiopia Understands that. It is as if, and he is, Zenawi is the Somali president, the Somali Prime Minister, and dealer of all issues Somalia and Somalis.

State Department Spokesman Asked if Somalia is Now Like Iraq QUESTION: I have a couple different things. First, sorry if I missed it. Did you give a readout of the Secretary's meeting with the Ethiopian Foreign Minister yesterday? Can you give a sense of her message on Somalia? It's my first a question. MR. MCCORMACK: Well, they had a good discussion about Somalia and the situation there. And the Ethiopian Foreign Minister underlined what the Ethiopian officials have underlined to us several times over and that is that they have no desire to stay there any longer than they are needed. They want to have an AU force in there that is capable of providing a secure environment where you can actually get to a political situation. And those two things are mutually reinforcing -- having a stable security environment as well as an open and inclusive political dialogue. I think progress along both of those tracks will help the other. But we also don't want to see and they don't want to see a vacuum open up in Somalia in the wake of a precipitous withdrawal by Ethiopian forces. So what is needed now is for the AU to generate the forces necessary to go in there and supplement the Ugandan forces. And part of our job as well as the job of others with an interest in seeing a different kind of Somalia is to help with the resource end of that because you may have willing AU forces, but they don't have either the equipment or the required training in order to go into Somalia and perform the kind of mission that the Ethiopians are performing. The Foreign Minister talked about the fact that there has been violence in Mogadishu, but he believes that the levels of violence are becoming more sporadic in that there are pockets of some of the former members of the Islamic courts who are continuing to fight Ethiopian forces. There have been unfortunately some civilians who've lost their lives in that and the Ethiopian Government assured us that they take every possible step to -- in all of their operations to ensure that there's no loss of innocent life. The Secretary emphasized that that is quite important when you're engaged in these kinds of operations. They also talked a little bit about the regional politics and they talked about the -- the Secretary underlined the importance of working with the Eritrean Government to define the border between the two countries. That was really -- those were sort of the high points. QUESTION: Can I just follow up? MR. MCCORMACK: Yes. QUESTION: Did they talk about a timeframe for the withdrawal of Ethiopian troops? MR. MCCORMACK: No, they didn't talk about a timeframe. No. QUESTION: Do you agree with the Ethiopian Foreign Minister's assessment as you just said that the violence in Mogadishu is becoming more sporadic? That seems to be a (inaudible) stretch -- MR. MCCORMACK: Well, it's -- QUESTION: -- considering what's happened over the last three days. MR. MCCORMACK: Well, it is more -- it is -- the violence is centered in Mogadishu and other parts of Somalia. It is more stable and more calm. There are still intense exchanges between the former members of the Islamic Courts, other associated with them, and the Ethiopian forces. But that isn't, you know, to say that it is more sporadic is not to say it is any less intense. QUESTION: Does it concern you at all that your little -- your opening readout -- your opening statements with the exception of some -- of the proper names could have applied exactly to the situation in Iraq? Does that bother -- does that concern you at all? MR. MCCORMACK: I'm not sure I see your point, Matt. QUESTION: That the Ethiopians say that they don't want to stay there any longer than they're needed, but they don't want to leave a vacuum. It just sounds -- MR. MCCORMACK: Right. QUESTION: -- an awful lot like they're taking a page from the Administration's thoughts on what to do in Iraq. MR. MCCORMACK: No. I mean, they're -- QUESTION: But I guess -- so my question is, are you concerned that they might be seeing the beginning or the -- in fact, the middle of an Iraq-style insurgency going on maybe -- obviously not directed at U.S. soldiers, but the same kind of thing. Are you concerned about that? MR. MCCORMACK: The situations are completely separate. They are -- each is sui generis but you are in each case concerned about leaving the field to a group of violent extremists who do not have an interest in building up the institutions of a democratic state, so in that sense, there are similarities. I think certainly the specifics of each situation are quite different and the histories are quite different. And I think the level of intensity of the fighting in Iraq is quite different than you're seeing in Somalia and the scale of it is a lot smaller. That said, certainly, the types of operations that the Ethiopian troops are engaged in and the kind of outreach to communities and the importance of the political component to resolving the underlying circumstances that lead to violence are the classic counterinsurgency kinds of operations and certainly, the Ethiopians understand that as well. QUESTION: I still have problems with your saying that it is -- or the Ethiopians saying it's more sporadic. I mean, there's been seven days of intense fighting, shelling in Mogadishu, half a million people have been forced out of the city, they're sheltering under trees, a humanitarian crisis is evolving. MR. MCCORMACK: Well, I think that there are a lot of differences over that number, Sue, over the number of displaced persons. You know I'm not in a position to tell you exactly the numbers, but I think the Ethiopians would tell you it's a quite different number. Now I point that out not to say that I know exactly what the number is, but I'm not sure that the people generating the half million figure are actually in Mogadishu at this point. Look, there's intense fighting. It's -- I meant to -- perhaps I used the wrong word, but I meant to try to convey to you that this is not -- or as we understand it, fighting that is throughout all of Mogadishu, that it is intense fighting, yet it is limited to certain areas of Mogadishu. That doesn't mean that it hasn't created displaced -- that it hasn't resulted in displaced persons going to the outskirts of Mogadishu. QUESTION: Did you discuss the humanitarian, sort of, crisis, as some people are saying it, with the Ethiopians and how aid could reach those who need it because there have been reports the Ethiopians have been, you know, holding up aid getting to the right people and -- MR. MCCORMACK: It wasn't a topic of conversation with the Secretary, but Jendayi Frazer had a lot of -- had extensive meetings with the foreign minister both before and after the meeting with the Secretary. And the humanitarian aid is always at the top of our list and we are quite concerned about the humanitarian situation. We have been for a couple of decades in Somalia, so that is not, in fact, new, that you have people who are wanting and suffering as a result of violence. Look, the Ethiopian forces went in there to assist with a problem of violent extremism that was growing in Somalia. It was becoming more of a threat to the Somali people, it was becoming more of a threat to the region. And if you're going to actually get to the root causes of the problem, you need to help stabilize the security situation, which is what the Ethiopian troops are doing, but most importantly, you need to get to the underlying political conflicts that result in this kind of violence, the clan warfare. You heard from Jendayi Frazer yesterday -- that's why she went to Baidoa, that's the message the Ethiopians are sending, that is the message that the Somalia Contact Group is sending. That the they need -- the TFG, the Transitional Government, needs to reach out and be as inclusive as it possibly can and to all of those who have an interest in a different kind of Somalia, in building up institutions of governance that are responsive to the people as opposed to dictating to the people and serving only their interest, the interest of the government. QUESTION: Are you calling for a ceasefire in Somalia or are you urging the Ethiopians to go for these insurgents with as much intensity as they could? MR. MCCORMACK: You don't want to see any more violence in Somalia. Everybody would like that to be the case, but there are clearly people there, individuals who are intent upon using violence in order to further a so-called political cause. And we have seen that in other areas around the world. And what can't be allowed to happen is for those forces to gain a foothold to develop a safe haven from which they could possibly launch attacks against other states in the region and further. QUESTION: So you're not calling for a ceasefire? MR. MCCORMACK: We want to see an end to the violence. But the real way to get an end to the violence is (a) stabilize the security situation and (b) find a political situation that is workable for the major political factions in Somalia life that have an interest in actually building a different kind of Somalia as opposed to the one we've seen for the past few decades. Yes, Nicholas. QUESTION: Sean, Jendayi Frazer was very frank yesterday about Eritrea's role in opposing just about everything that Ethiopia does. I wonder if they came up with the meeting with the Secretary. And Jendayi said that she hadn't talked to Eritrean officials about this, but is there anything the United States is doing to use perhaps international, multinational fora to get Eritrea to be a more responsible player in African affairs? MR. MCCORMACK: The most recent effort at that was I know the boundary conference discussions in London -- that was -- I can't tell you how many months ago. I'm not aware of any recent efforts, Nicholas. QUESTION: And it didn't come up -- Eritrea as -- MR. MCCORMACK: They discussed generally the relationship with Eritrea, but it focused mostly on the demarcation of the boundary and that whole process and trying to get that process rolling again. Posted by master on April 25 2007 11:58:13 http://www.dalkanews.com/news.php?readmore=104

And a sad day for the tigre lovers among somalis who must be weeping by now for their fallen masters.

Originally posted by ThePoint: I must say I like the deflection of 'you(TFG) have looters too'..... Yeah - I can't argue with that. But it seems you can argue against(or minimize) the looters in Mogadishu with nary a reasoned argument much less logic. PS - A sincere advice - stop bandying about 'clan president' unless you want to have that thrown back in your face. [/QB] I must have touched a raw nerve to draw such emotional pleas from you, and to me to stop calling the lowlife warlord for what he is: A clanist bigot who represents only a minority as corrupt as he is. I don't need to comment once more on the facts in my previous posts. The record of the ICU is there and it will take another decent group of somalis to do what they did of justice and community service. Where there was peace, there is chaos today, where the children who came from as far as London went to school peacefully in Muqdisho, to learn the culture and islam, where women celebrated their newly found security from the ruthless warlord's taxation, rape and robbery, where there was beach gatherings for the returnees, where the people pursued education, where somalis who suffered from the trangressions of their fellow somalis opened exclusive schools for their community, to teach their young girls to walk high and reclaim the equality somalis denied them for generations, today, there is genocide perpetrated on behlaf of the maniac called A/Y who is happy to see the above mentioned acheivements by the ICU gone and replaced with permanent fear, death and destruction. This what motivates the people who are fighting, to reclaim their dignity, security and safety, to eject the filthy Xabashis from their homes and live as free as they were born and as brave a real somali unlike the stooges. Dee nin yohow, wixii odagaas dulliga taageersan waa isagoo kale.

^ You can add to the facts saxib that entire sections of Muqdisho was flattened in the early 1990s, thick forest had grown in entire sections of Old Xamar and no one lives there. Also, if it is about property that people in Muqdisho want to keep, they wouldn't have supported the ICU which had an islamic platform, and which would require everyone to give up any loot. It is notewrothy that many properties were returned to those who went back in the ICU days. My own mother was on the waiting list to recover her land, a land onwhich someone built a small home. Illegally built homes on other people's property were destroyed in Kaaraan district. The sheekh was on BBC talking just about that during those old days of the ICU. These individuals on SOL with the "LOOT" monotonous comment know where the looters are: In bed with their clan president and he loves them, among them Qeybdiid, Yalaxoow, Qanyare and the rest of Muqdisho crooks.

^ You can always clarify a bit more saxib instead of asking people to remove blinkers Your arguments would make sense if the conditions on the ground were conducive for negotiated political settlements. You think, I assume from what you wrote, Geeddi and A/Y are interested in negotiating with others. Have you listened to these men talk about their political views? You should try and then make a judgement. If they were into politics for the love of their country and had the interests of their people at heart, nothing of what is happening would have happened and they would have settled matters peacefully when they had the chance. They were not independent to think the crisis through either and they are not still. And least of all, these are men fearful of somalis, they trust no one else but people like them, their enemy seems to be the one sitting next to them whom they think is a threat to their political fortunes. Geeddi called for more bombing and told residents to leave, he wants to see this through and convinces everyone who would listen to his stories that their opposition is a minority, one subclan among other clans, and therefore, he should be helped in eliminating this minor threat instead of sitting down with them to start the political settlements. A/Y said the same thing in Addis. Even Zenawi was quoted as saying, it is only Aweys' clan opposing the TFG and the rest of somalis love the TFG. From what you wrote, you don't know the TFG characters very well. Go do your homework and then come back.

^ The US bobmed civilians, cows, wedding parties in southern somalia, with the world watching declared their mission unsuccessful since it didn't procude the death of wanted terrorists as they put it. So, what makes it impossible this turn around for them to land in Muqdisho when the Xabashis need their air-support, and Geeddi begging the western world to come save them? Besides, you object to nothing of the sort whether Xabashi troops destroying Muqdisho, raping women, killing somalis as they see fit, or American spotters directing a more accurate bombs on what is left standing from the last seven days. Why argue against it? From the onset, this has been the project of Americans who trained a whole year the Ethiopian army for just this mission, to invade somalia. The TFG happens to be the needed insolent, faithless, rootless, murderous thugs they could use and name their legitimate puppets when somalis of nobility despise them.

Me, What did I say? Drop me the link so I can read hadhoow markaan classka kasoo baxo. Saxib, I never claim to be perfect, but there are lines I don't cross. Bal adiga i tus waxaan dhahay. Take care now.

Che, In Xabashida la iska saaro hadday suuro gal tahay oo la iska dhiciyo. Xiin, I trust Me's word, he may have something on me I don't know I am on my way out, take care everyone. Thanks Paragon. Me What did I say? Drop me the link so I can read hadhoow markaan classka kasoo baxo. Saxib, I never claim to be perfect, but there are lines I don't cross. Bal adiga i tus waxaan dhahay. Take care now.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: lol@Me. Along with Paragon, Castro and Xoogsade are the leaders of our cyber movement, why don’t you spare them now and take on NGONGE instead. The man has not been forthcoming on these issues. Waa talo ! ps--your case against Xoogga is very weak. Drop it adeer. Waa talo kale! I want to take my comments back if Me proves I made them and move on bro.

Originally posted by Che-Guevara: Xoogsade.......If you wanna all Somalis to fight this worthy cause, then I am afraid you need to clarify your stances on Somali issues and those issues do need our approval. No Somali in the right mind would want to fight for Xamar that once liberated will claimed be by reer Hebel. Somalinimo and Islanimo die with civil war. You need to understand that!!!!! If that is your opinion, Others will join the war against the Xabashis and their stooges for far greater reasons than who will claim Xamar to be theirs, or what comes after victory. It all depends on what motivations people have. Those who think along clan lines, this is purely one clan against Xabashi army, for others, it is somalis against Xabashi army. Do somalis stand aside and wait to see other somalis die or do they join and think about their differences later? It is all up to what motivates people saxib. Approval or not, somalis have joined the war in great numbers and will join. Somalis don't think the same.

Originally posted by me: ^ Don't worry about that, if it wasn't Caydiid is was indhacade, but I will post the links here since you are so eager to see them. You are welcome to post anything you deem favourable to your case Mr.Me. Ceydiid or Indhacade, or whoever else you can add to your list again. And just so you understand without any cloud of doubt, I didn't need your approval to express myself and take a stance before on somali issues.

^ You can ask these questions though without saying you have seen past posts of mine in which I defended Aydiid's record. You spoke with confidence so I would like to see the posts, or you can private me the source so I can admitt to my faults. I will share it if they are incriminating so you have nothing to be blamed for as well. I will expose myself saxib, so, please, let me know about the posts. Not that I am perfect but I don't recall defending Aydiid.

It looks the kid posed for the picture. He is part of the terrorists though according to Geeddi.

Me, I am waiting for the posts I submitted inwhich I defended Ceydiid. Hope someone else can do the search as well if they know how to. I would like to see those comments.

DhuchDhuc, That is understandable, I forgot to look at it that way in my passion to see my expectations met. And that is not unique situtaion to some Puntland elders, other somali clans have the same problem. Good explanation.

Why don't you pull my comments up bro Me? That is firm statement you make about you seeing me defending Aydiid. I would like to see what I have said. I can't even think of any context I would praise Ceydiid or Defend past actions. Fursad fiican oo aa igu ceebeesid aa heysataa ee ha dhaafin bro. Anigana waxaan rabaa inaan arko waxaan iri. So come on, do your work ama naga dhaaf maala yacniga. I give you plenty of time and will be back, ee soo dheji meeshaan waxaan qoray.

^ Me wants a monopoly on honesty. Should we let him have it?

Odayaashooda fore xample, clan elders, isimo maa dhahdaan ama boqoro or whatever titles somalis up there use for the elders sis. Their voice is important. They need to make a sacrifce and let their disagreements be known that A/Y and others are alone in this. People like you and me are not that effective on a national scale. I haven't seen their opinion anywhere online yet, or heard it on the radio. Would like to see or hear something from them. They can help with the situation.

Me, I wasn't hooked online for you to see my comments about Aydiid and what he was doing. I was back home amid the chaos living as all young people do, under the care of their elders. Even then, I had the conscience to say "Aamiin" when people who were most affected by Aydiid's war prayed for his defeat. I viewed those conflicts for what they were --> Senseless violence perpetrated by mad men and their immoral foot soldiers. It is the same story again so I condemn it the same. And for the thousandth time, I don't care who views my comments or personality to be insincere, I don't exist for the approval of mere mortals like me. I aim higher saxib and will speak of my mind.

^ Those who matter saxib is my objective, the average somali with no selfish interests and not sick with clan animosities is always against corrupt people. I would like to see people who count in that community who must come out forcefully against their corrupts destroying Somalia.