migraines! If I had state secrets, I'd be giving them up right now. Who has regular migraines around here and what prescription are you taking nowadays? Imitrex is not working anymore Natural remedies, anyone? Yoga, herbs, visualization,.....I'll try anything.

Originally posted by -MARX-: The liberal minded sister said she would consider marrying a non-Somali, and the other sister asked her if the stigmatism attached to that would not bother her. You would sincerely hope that a PhD candidate would know the difference between 'stigmatism' and 'stigma'. Unless the snooty girls have a problem with wonky eyeballs.

Ferocious people! The brother getting beat on in his sleep should throw a punch or two. I don't condone domestic violence but beating people in their sleep is just a low down shame.

Whomever is going to the flower shop, can you pick up a lily or two for me? Ahem.....Johnny..... .Ahem

Johnny and Ngonge, if I lived anywhere near you boys, I'd bake you banana chocolate muffins Guessing nomads' ages can only be done by cutting them in half and counting the rings. Any other method is unreliable.

Ngonge, I noticed the ol' pull-the-ponytail trick but I was in too much of a camel-milk-debate mode . A&T is cool, and much too smart not to participate in this discussion fully (after some basic imbibing of evolutionary theories).

Abtigiis & Tolka, inadeer (note the conciliatory tone in my greeting). How did you come to accuse me of immodesty in this long thread out of all the contributors on different sides of the discussion? Again, nabad iyo caano

^ Abtigiis & Tolka, I insist that your posts are much more amusing and creative when discussing Viagra or drive-by coitus in Ramadan. Nabad iyo caano, champ?

Norfsky, I am not really sure what sort of answer you're searching for when you haven't examined some of the evolutionary evidence yourself. Even a wiki and some googling maybe better than nothing at this stage. Since we share nearly 95% of our DNA with present day chimpanzees, is it so far fetched that we would have a common ancestor? There is evidence of the genus, Homo, across several continents, and it is thought to have branched off from a common ancestor approximately 5-7 million years ago. I'll give you an example of a debate that has been raging among muslim scholars in the face of this evidence. Abdel-Saboor Shaheen, a Muslim Scholar and well-known Daciya, waged a war of sorts in the early 90s against some Muslim scientists who agreed that early versions existed of today's man. He argued that these theories contradicted religious texts' conception of Adam (much like what his Christian counterparts do). In 1998, he did a turnabout and published a book called 'My Father Adam' where he contends that Adam, the first creature, may NOT be Adam, the nabi, mentioned in the Quran. I read the book when it came out and it is very thin on science. And there is a strong suspicion that a seminal part is lifted directly from a more learned Syrian scholar. Nonetheless, Shaheen essentially agrees that present man evolved from 'less-formed' series of ancestors. This complete turnabout earned him the expected wrath of other muslim scholars and daciya. Fortunately for him, the very writers he was accusing of kufr and testifying against in courts came to his aid with support. Curiously, he continues to wage his takfeeri war against anyone with whom he disagrees. One or two Muslim scholars are now postulating that the appearance of Homo Sapiens (sapien is Latin for intelligent) is nafkh el-roh into the less intelligent ancestor. They argue that this is how God preferred Adam's lineage over others. Frankly, Norf, and please don't take offense with this but I'm not sure what you can gain from engaging in evolution discussions when you're so woefully misinformed. I say use this passion that you have to gain some insights based on knowledge. Others may learn something from you as well. Abtigiis & Tolka , I would truly respond to you if I believed that anything you had written above was worth a response. That is not to say that I am not amused by your cosmic insurance policy.

LOL, scrawny?? That is the nicest thing I've heard all week. My love handles thank you. I've just witnessed a dizzying discussion with one party an ardent Lamarckian. It seems like the 18th century was just yesterday.

^ LOL, for you, my dear Cara, the ostrich will make an evolutionary exception

^ Yep, that Cara is a show off, makes you want to feed her to a fanged ostrich

^ Why are you not capable?

Norfsy, the arguments seem well-reasoned to a layman because they are laden with ideological posturing. You insist that the Egyptian, for example, is doing his thing and yet you haven’t read for him since our last discussion about 3 years ago. Listen, read, study, think through, and then bring forth your views. Even scientists who study evolutionary evidence argue extensively about what the evidence means. Any introductory archaeology book will be a good start. A book on methodology/principl es of anthropological archaeology would also be good.

Northerner, before you put evolutionary evidence under the microscope, I would suggest some earnest study across disciplines where this evidence is found (assuming you haven't begun already). Harun Yahya and his ilk should not be part of that study at all. About the intentions of the two men, they've been given the benefit of the doubt to no avail. Their financial empires are built on the ignorance about and fear of science among the masses. They continue to peddle their nonsense and make a handsome buck out of it (certainly easier than any banker could). Sincerity and righteousness have nothing to do with these two.

Northerner, I cannot get beyond Yahya's ignorance of basic scientific principles. The gist of his book refuting evolution is that some creatures of today (e.g. an eel) have not changed in millions of years. Of course, in too many examples, he is not comparing the same things. He is an ideologue and a smart man but he is an ignorant, profiteering charlatan. The one I had disparaged in the past is Zaghloul El Naggar, another religious charlatan and profiteer. It is, unfortunately, both dishonest and futile to place evolutionary theory (or any science) on opposite ends of faith/religion. But it seems inevitable where similar discussions arise. I am a believer and also a student of science (Biochemistry/ Archaeology). My reading of the Quran is cognizant of its overall spiritual purpose and its allegorical style. And it helps that I have a naturally high tolerance for ambiguities . People over the next generations and through coming millenia will be faced with greater understanding of evolutionary changes. What will come of religious faith, then? The likes of Yahya and El-Naggar (and their Christian counterparts) will place themselves favourably between ever-expanding scientific knowledge and what is, no doubt, a struggle with belief in God. It would be interesting to engage in a discussion about God.

Northerner, I have to admit, I am in awe (and admiration!) of your tenacity. You are truly a soldier of God, unwavering to the end (no sarcasm intended at all). Please, though, distance yourself as far away as you can from Harun Yahya. Methinks even God may find his ignorance objectionable. For what it's worth, studying evolutionary theory and some of the evidence from different disciplines may be to your liking and may not offend your Muslim convictions. Originally posted by Johnny B: Obviously the thread cries for positive contribution, preferably something about God. [/QB] Johnny B, I think this thread is, indeed, in dire need of a discussion about God.

JB, I would hinaas if Ibtisam had put me on her silly poll though I don't care for dusty elections with no campaign funds to swindle. Ngonge, I'm betting on my beat-up Matrix that you're going to win

^ You withdraw after I voted for you? :mad: Who is this Haneefa character? I don't know why she reminds me of Corazon Aquino.

Ibtisam, I didn't realize the drivel in the 15 page thread were campaign speeches! Buck-toothed geel-jires and elections, a dangerous combination.

I don't get it. Elections without lobbying, campaigns, or even criteria for choosing people. This is worse than a middle school dance committee election. Ibtisam, two threads and not one reason why those people are on the list?! How geel-jire of you!

The_Siren, if you haven't seen my review of District 9 in the general section, I would urge you to save your money (I wish I had). Never have I seen a more infuriating and insulting film. And the story development is overrated (any sci-fi film in the past 15 years can rival it). The only thing it has going for it is the large budget.

Bloody witch hunt. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, humiliating this poor young girl.

The_Siren, do you actually think the the onus of proof is on the person who says that they doubt the existence of a God? Surely the onus is on the positive claimant alone. *waves to Johnny and blows a kiss in the air*

Why of course it is brilliant! Except that little part about 'Nigerian' gangs running amok while mighty whitey bemoans not ONE but TWO types of slums inhabited by darkies (one looks like a cockroach while the other is an African of the land). And that little part where black women engage in cross-species baby-making business. This movie is a certain white man's wet dream: internment of blacks (and pesky aliens, what's the diff?!), apartheid policies gaining fresh blood and energy. Let us not forget blacks doing what they do best which is travel to the bottom of depravity as quickly as whitey can send in his guns and scientists. It is some good sci-fi shtick, though, and this coming from a die-hard fan of the genre. Short, fat Peter Jackson can stand a little taller and a little leaner with this vision of a post-alien world of slums, guns, and inter-species prostitution. In the tradition of Ebert, two middle fingers up!