Naden
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Everything posted by Naden
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Pi, I am neither a freshman nor am I 'giddy' with thoughts that so offend with their elementary nature. One thing I could not surpass you in is the art of respectful, intelligent and civilized discussion. And to think that you have gone through the trouble of reading and posting without adding anything of substance. Personal attacks and adolescent whining not withstanding, of course. Animal Farm The world can end instantly, so can life..... I believe so as well.
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The Point, Some of the comments struck me as belabored and stretching. Sudden doesn't preclude that signs(for those who know and believe) will appear. That the time of the Hour is known only to Allah doesn't preclude that His signs will appear to foreshadow that time. The ‘signs’ in the Quran seem to speak of the actual moments, whatever their lengths maybe, of the collapse of the earth as we know it. Judgment day and the eternal life cannot begin before this one ends. The collapse of the earth, the arrival of Ya’JuJ and Ma’JuJ, the smoke, the horn, and so on are signs of the end of this world. As a believer, they make sense to me; even metaphorically as I cannot imagine them, they do. What doesn’t make sense is a ‘sign’ that is really nothing more than an odious staple of human interaction that's stubbornly lingered for centuries. That a slave mother gives birth to a child who might grow to be her master does not fit in with the nature and type of the immediate ‘signs’ of the hour in the Quran. What's interesting is that the ‘signs’ of the hour outside the Quran are similar to those imagined and believed by cultures and groups foreign to Islam and other monotheistic religions. That they are central to people’s interactions with morality, mortality and reflections of a higher power is evident. You speak of a ‘foreshadow’. Just how does this ongoing human interaction foreshadow the end? Could humans reach a point of tyranny, poverty and collapse of social justice that slavery is the norm and most women’s wombs bring forth young masters? Could be. Would this mean the end of the world? Maybe. However, a few more countries gaining nuclear weapons and serious fights over oil and water are more ominous and could bring about a speedier end to humanity. In my belief, even in the worst scenarios that we humans, with our limitations imagine, the end as spelled out in the Quran is only knowledgeable to God and will happen at his whim as shown by these few verses among many others (Shaker translation): Source 10.045 And on the day when He will gather them as though they had not stayed but an hour of the day, they will know each other. They will perish indeed who called the meeting with Allah to be a lie, and they are not followers of the right direction. 12.107 Do they then feel secure that there may come to them an extensive chastisement from Allah or (that) the hour may come to them suddenly while they do not perceive? 16.077 And Allah's is the unseen of the heavens and the earth; and the matter of the hour is but as the twinkling of an eye or it is higher still; surely Allah has power over all things. 20.015 Lo! the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden, that every soul may be rewarded for that which it striveth (to achieve). 33.063 Men ask thee concerning the Hour: Say, "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone)": and what will make thee understand? - perchance the Hour is nigh! I find the recent phenemonon of picking and choosing with regard to Islam(as if it was some sort of cheesy smorgasbord) puzzling and pathetic. No one is picking and choosing anything. You've never even heard of these ahadeeth and yet you find it 'pathetic' that they are discussed? Matters of significance, relations and reference are important when something is vague. I choose to discuss a list that claims one of the signs of the hour is that “Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business†(Ahmad) (#60) and you can choose to abstain.
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Cara Assyrian, huh? Don't know much about their end of times tablets but they sound fascinating. I look forward to reading more. I find it interesting that we humans think the end of times would be a consequence of our actions. Castro Google has little information on the tribe of Daus but apparently they were based somewhere in Yemen and they are famous for some poets. I've decided to abandon the no-touch policy to religion a few moons ago . Socod Badne You must be channeling the Niiko thread in the General subform, dude . And I went through all that trouble pushing the philosophy of boom, boom, boom. :mad: All this scary doomsday 'shidh' is fun to talk about. There are so many people I'd like to see on the other side starting with the guy who tripped me in 2nd grade and made my knee lose a chunk of flesh. Part of my wish in the afterlife after all the hoopla settles is to have a hut in a beach somewhere, sipping tequila, and having people line-up outside to apologize to me. Want to take about African booty shaking , open your own thread, brother-man, and I will bring my drums .
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I was hired by a marketing company that needed summer students to create a marketing campaign. Showed up for work around 8 a.m. on a Monday, was given a portfolio with contracts and a list of names and addresses, and then dropped off with 5 other people in a suburb of the city where I lived. Going door to door trying to sell golfing equipment to retirees and stay-at-home moms was the marketing campaign :rolleyes: . Never had so many doors close in my black face. I quit at lunch hour.
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Castro, My only answer would be why not wonder about these things? I don't have any seditious intentions and islam is supposed to be a religion of reasoning and thought. When questions about faith or belief arise, I try to approach it with an open mind. I think it is the least that I could do as it is undoubtedly one of the strongest influences in my outlook on life. As for ahadeeth and their authenticity, it is not so important. I don't think this one is strange or out of place; it is perhaps mysterious but it fits with the time and place of idol worship. It is just interesting to me how the link between so many things could be made to the final hour as revealed in the Quran.
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I agree with Ngonge on this one. I spent hours watching dramas, gameshows, cartoons (Tom & Jerry reruns were my life), nature shows, the news, debates, interviews and so many other shows. Even as a child, I didn't realize that I was a child as I found myself 'plugged' into world affairs and aware of so many people and cultures around the world. I still recall a show on Australian aborigines I watched at 12 or 13. I was absolutely struck by these short, dark people with the straight hair. WTF? Where did they come from? How come they're so short yet their feautres African and their hair Asian? I wish more Somalis watch TV, especially adults. They might learn a thing or two about raising and guiding children from the hundreds of hours dedicated to parenting skills. Whenever I visit a Somali house and want to catch up with HardTalk or a PBS show or an episode of LOST, I realize that the remote is nowhere to be found, the set hadn't been opened in ages and even if turned on by some miracle, you can't hear anything. Why? Because in their cocoon, the family and their guests are talking about what's happening to the TGF :rolleyes: , who brought new gold from Dubai, and where the next independence party is going to be. Just how many different independence celebrations can one group of people numbering less than 10 million have?
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JB Thanks . I agree with the notion as well that the end of times as expressed in the revelation is unknown. Personally, I don't think it matters much. What is important for humans is to live, grow, create, and explore as much of their world as possible. Who cares about the end? I worry that a philosophy that finds any enjoyment of life and living in the present disdainful is the force behind the emphasis on 'signs' and what not. The signs or portents attached to the 'only God has knowledge of the unseen and the hour' are non-sequitors in my opinion as well. I Like the clever equation . What I find fascinating is how similar these 'signs' are to other ideologies' predictors of doomsday. To me, our own analysis of the 'end' of times is closely related to what we perceive to be the end of man himself, and a curious assumption that he is an instrument of that end through sins although for a student of the Quran like myself, I understand the end to be sudden and at the discretion of God. Our collective histories (unconscious) point in roughly the same direction with an underlying theme of life-death or creation-destruction cycle. I don't believe the prophet knew anymore than is presented in the Quran and I am somewhat disappointed by how nonsensical and laughable some of these signs are. In the revelation, no hints or fantasies are necessary as they throw followers into darkness. You see, either way I can’t seem to answer your question without questioning your basic assumption and that you wouldn’t like You can question anything you want, friend, but I am hoping as much as possible through study and questioning to strip my faith out of the nonsensical and absurd. Say, Why do think that the Universe will be wrapped in the first place ? Your guess is as good as mine. Luckily, despite my belief and practice, I don't usually care about the end or the hour or its signs or camels, pregnant slaves or swinging butts. I figure it won't happen in my lifetime and if it does, I will be in the company of billions scurrying left and right. What I do think about very rarely is the billions who believe what I don't believe? Who will be right? What if I am not? I will have to find an equally irate Jewish lawyer to get my zakat money back . Castro I don't know what the Arabic text is but I am not so concerned with the choice of body part. I'm curious about this particular ritual, this particual tribe and their idol. Why are they worth mentioning? Was it a type of tribe where only women moved around the idol? What happened to that tribe now? Edit Here is the hadith: Øدثنا †â€Ø£Ø¨Ùˆ اليمان †â€Ø£Ø®Ø¨Ø±Ù†Ø§ †â€Ø´Ø¹ÙŠØ¨ †â€Ø¹Ù† †â€Ø§Ù„زهري †â€Ù‚ال قال †â€Ø³Ø¹ÙŠØ¯ بن المسيب †â€Ø£Ø®Ø¨Ø±Ù†ÙŠ †â€Ø£Ø¨Ùˆ هريرة †â€Ø±Ø¶ÙŠ الله عنه †â€Ø£Ù† رسول الله †â€ØµÙ„Ù‰ الله عليه وسلم †â€Ù‚ال †â€Ù„ا تقوم الساعة Øتى تضطرب أليات نساء †â€Ø¯ÙˆØ³ †â€Ø¹Ù„Ù‰ ذي الخلصة وذو الخلصة طاغية †â€Ø¯ÙˆØ³ †â€Ø§Ù„تي كانوا يعبدون ÙÙŠ الجاهلية †Source
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In slave mothers and swinging buttocks, we will find the end of the world. How? I will tell you in a bit. A few days ago, an earthquake shook the ground under the people of Indonesia. In a few horrific moments, thousands were crushed under giant mortars, some buried alive, others missing and may never be found. It was the images of children sitting on the rubble or their small bodies dragged from collapsed building that sickened me the most. Like with all children caught in man or nature made catastrophes, my initial thoughts are usually: Is this brutal end all that was destined for them? Where is the justice? As a follower of an Abrahamic doctrine, I believe that there will be justice. I see some justice in the world, not much for the little man, but greater justice will be done. I hope. A friend e-mailed me shortly after images of the earthquake appeared on TV; she complained of how cheap we, Muslims, are towards each other. She added contacts for her favourite Muslim charity and urged me gently (read: guilt-tripped :mad: ) to donate. Towards the end of her message, she wondered rather depressingly if the end of the world was near. I wasn’t sure if she meant that the earthquake or our collective stingy ways would bring about the end, but this quake and her words reminded me of a thread opened in another subforum about the ‘minor’ and ‘major’ signs of the hour of reckoning, the moment that ends this world and ushers the next. With a quick exam of 'signs' in this Old Thread's list, it seemed its contents could be divided into: 1. A series of events that will materialize before the hour. They’re not in any specific order and no explanations for their particular presence in exclusion of others. Some are simply pedestrian such as men wearing silk garments, others are frightening such as the appearance of 30 dajjals. Despite reading of their goal, I don’t really know what a dajjal is and why only 30 and not 40 thousand or 50 million. I gather they will be instruments in the clearing of the dead of their graves or maybe even the capture of living ones as they scurry around in horror . Who knows? 2. A number of sins that presumably usher the end of the world. The overwhelming sense in these is that humans, through their relentless sin, will somehow trigger the end. From the list, I was able to draw some crude groupings of ‘signs’ that are surprisingly similar to major no-nos in Islam: fahishat such as illegal intercourse (3, 4, 5, 15), children/offspring that are insolent and unkind (11, 12, 22, 63), alcohol consumption, homosexuality (6, 59), bearing false witness, telling lies, deceiving (21, 57, 42), gender confusion (67, 32), greed, miserliness, not paying alms (16, 17, 18, 19, 42, 43), tyranny of rulers (4, 8, 29, 30, 31). These ‘signs’ are a curiosity. Apart from the few taken from the Quran which I accept wholly, the remainder make me wonder how much they overlap with humanity’s cumulative interaction with their pending mortality. Our mortality, in part, guides us to question the origin of things; no beginning is understood, imagined or studied without a questioning of the end. For a brief period, I was involved in brain research and apoptosis. Brain cells in a sample of patients with neurodegenerative disease simply died without a complete understanding of the mechanism. It’s been some years since then and some of the mystery has been uncovered but it’s always held my curiosity. Eschatology. Ancient Egyptians were just as interested in death and what came after as they buried their own with food, weapons and gold. They may have been instinctively wondering if there is life after death; thus, they prepared their dead for immortality by burying them with provisions. Other cultures approached Eschatology in a different manner. Buddhists believed Buddha’s moral teachings would be replaced with vice such as widespread murder, greed, ill-will, and adultery (sound familiar? ). This, they believe, would trigger the arrival of a new Buddha named Maitreya who would revive the moral code of conduct in a cycle of destruction and creation. Similarly, Hindus believe that the end would be ushered by degradation and widespread conceit, violence and poverty. Their eschatology predicts the appearance of a leader to reverse degradation and bring virtue once more. In monotheistic faiths, the end would initiate a time of God’s wrath, and judgment as is believed in Islam. The "Consistent Eschatology" of Johannes Weiss and Albert Schweitzer is an interesting read for the inclined. I read about the hour in the Quran every so often. From what I can deduce, a few signs are given such as: the possible appearance or involvement of Ya’JOJ and Ma’JOJ, the blowing of a horn & smoke, and the collapse of the earth/sky. The last two are understandable and could be imagined, sort of, but the brothers JOJ sound damn scary, perhaps even more chilling than the alleged dajjals :eek: . Aside from these Quranic signs, I have always firmly believed that all knowledge of the ‘hour’ such as the timing and mechanism are a mystery only known to God and that the prophet knew as much as he delivered in the message as seen in Sura 7, Verse 187. I would normally reference a verse but this I have to spell out: “They ask you about the hour, when will be its taking place? Say: The knowledge of it is only with my Lord; none but He shall manifest it at its time; it will be momentous in the heavens and the earth; it will not come on you but of a sudden. They ask you as if you were solicitous about it. Say: Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most people do not know†(Shakir translation). These verses (6:31, 10:45, 12: 107, 16:77, 20:15, 22:55, 33:63 and 43:66) are by no means exhaustive but they all point to the same gist: the knowledge of the hour is in the ghaib (unseen) to which only God is privy AND it will be sudden. The words (بَغتةً and ÙƒÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ…Ø٠البَصَر) are defined as sudden/ unexpected and blink of an eye respectively. For me, ‘sudden’ precludes any warnings. I’ve read a little about signs outside of those in the Quran and they claim the timing of the end may be unseen but the signs are there. I’ve also read that temporal estimates for man and God differ, so perhaps the ‘sudden’ repeated in these verses actually means across the entire time of creation. I don’t know. I’m a simple girl, when I hear ‘sudden’, I believe it to be sudden. I’ve also read elsewhere that these minor and major signs will be harrowing only for disbelievers, but believers will safely bypass them. It will remain a mystery. So what do slave mothers and swinging buttocks have to do with the final hour? These 2 ahadith speak not of the ‘time’ but ‘signs’ or ‘portents’ of the hour. Book 2, Number 47. Narrated Abu Huraira “………..Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents. 1. When a slave (lady) gives birth to her master…..†It is puzzling for conditions to be set for the hour despite God clearly pointing to its sudden and unseen nature. It is also puzzling because slave women as sexual property have always given birth to the children of their masters who would at times inherit them along with cattle and other wealth. These children owned their mothers from the ancient times to the middle ages to the new world. If anything, the world is moving away from the normalization of human slavery in all its forms. I gather if true, this sign/portent simply means it is checked off of a list of things to happen before the end. Or perhaps it is metaphoric for a coming time when poverty would be so widespread, slavery would become the norm again. Who knows? If so, what then in the repertoire of human experience is not a sign of the hour? Book 88, Number 232. Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established till the buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daus move while going round Dhi-al-Khalasa." This ‘sign’ struck me as odd. Dhi-al-Khalasa was an idol of a tribe called Daus and they moved around it in worship. I’m not certain what has become of the tribe of Daus. Some research is in order. I’m curious if it is a metaphor for a return to idol worship. Perhaps. I’m really baffled by the significance of the ‘buttocks’ of these women. Why not their shoulders? Heads? Arms? Why women alone? From what I understand, both men and women worshipped idols. No doubt that people, no matter their ideology, are unwavering in their quest for knowledge about the end, theirs or the world’s. There are more questions than answers but solace in the knowledge that one is just as immersed in darkness as the rest of humanity.
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Islam doesn't allow taking long breaks between babies if there are NO health reasons for it. This is an unnecessary and unsubstantiated tahreem. There are a few forbidden behaviours in the Quran and contraception is not one of them. Some scholars may admonish against something but people can choose to take it or leave it in light of their understanding of the Quran.
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I'll fill out your poll as soon as you explain what thick which one is you suiting means.
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Here is an e-site with e-Quran: Quran . Enter the word 'condom' in the search, if nothing pops out, you're good to go.
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^ True. They aren't really the vanguards of anything and they are only responsible for themselves, uncivil society and all.
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I don't believe Saudis are any better or worse than people in different regions of the world. They are uncivilized, though. Worker rights and the protection of every member of a society including expatriates must be fought for by individuals and groups including unions. These fights are often bloody but necessary. Saudis have little use for such organizations. Yet. Even in the most developed nations, worker (human?) rights are a work in progress and must be constantly defended and upheld. Justice doesn't come easy and without a price and their religion means nothing; these are CIVIL rights and those ignoring them will remain largely uncivilized.
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Caracas, Venezuela.
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^ I don't know. It is desperate that Malaria, gastritis, and childbirth among others clamor for the African soul. Medical research is just as competitive and cutthroat an industry as others and lax restrictions might mean a hundred different researchers from the developed world running parallel trials through their affiliates in 'developing' countries that lack the ethics watchdogs. Before you know it, grave injuries and deaths are not reported in the results and healthy folks are infected to try the vaccine side of research without them knowing what's happening. It's all very desperate. But like Cara said, for the person with AIDS, any drug offers hope and reservation is the luxury of healthy folks.
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Originally posted by Cara: Most pharmaceuticals wouldn't go to the cost of conducting human trials without having a pretty good idea that the drug is relatively safe and efficacious. Cara, I agree. I think an AIDS diagnosis is a crux of human misery since it means a slow, degenerating death and the loss of mostly young, productive people. I also believe that it is fair that clinical trials should be done in all parts of the world since everyone eventually benefits from the treatments once the drugs are approved. What leaves a sour taste in my mouth is the chance, like you said, that big pharmaceutical companies would contract out smaller portions of a drug development phase to local/smaller companies and laboratories with the hope that some of the hoops might be bypassed for accelerated patenting and approval. The benefits are theirs but the risks fall on the smaller fish. I'm just worried that many drugs NOT ready for human trials will gain access to African humans and not necessarily American/European ones. I agree in general. I wonder though - with the new cocktail drugs you have - HIV/AIDS is becoming a managed disease thus reducing the likelihood of people wanting to participate in clinical trials as it is not(so much) a death sentence. ThePoint, it's true that AIDS is not the death sentence it was 10 or 15 years ago. Prevention is probably just as much an important need as treatment in areas where the infection rates are staggering. People in these areas would probably be willing to participate if, like the women in the article, they are unable to convince their partners to use condoms. There is always trial and error with these things man but this is as close to perfect as we can get. J.Lee, I agree. The trial of those researchers in Libya, however, reminds of instances where people are cheated out of a chance to know what is being done to them or their children.
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Sobering. This had me a little worried: If developing countries can't run trials, lifesaving breakthroughs will sit in laboratories waiting to be tested. By some estimates, 100,000 people will be needed for HIV-prevention studies over the coming decade. Despite my strong belief that new therapies hold the future for lifting this misery, I am always weary of ethical standards being applied differentially in 'developing' countires. In many, people are largely poor and desperate and don't speak the language of the researchers. What does informed consent mean when someone is illiterate, has no recourse for lawsuits and can't seek second opinions?
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^ It's obvious that you're sh*it stirring with that nonsense and your despicable use of the word 'adoon'. Quit trying to get attention. :rolleyes:
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Nothing bizarre about this at all. Humans have always been concerned with the quality of their 'stock'; breeding healthy children who can advance a society and form strong armies was and will always remain a supreme goal. From ancient Greeks to modern matchmakers, qualities such as youth, physical health, intelligence, and family wealth set the stage for the breeding of such strong people. Selling the eggs of young, smart, otherwise healthy women is in the same league as goading daughters of a tribe/town to seek out and sleep with the most brave and notable soldiers to improve the stock of such a tribe.
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Malaika, thanks. I like the idea of having the colour come out in a few weeks. I might even go nuts and try a colour other than black.
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^ I sure hope so. If any of them wants to jump over the ethnic fence, this black woman and her short knife will be waiting.
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^^ @ Sheh I don't think I've ever seen anyone intervene in public the way you have there. I find most people scared of teen boys (some are shepherds of the devil) but I strangely don't find them threatening at all. It's the textbook type psycho (white, 30s, raincoat, shifty eyes) that scares the crap out of me. I regret taking a serial killers class in uni., I haven't been the same person since :rolleyes: . I figured there is a serious risk that my knife will be used against me. Since I'm fairly aggressive for a girl and have worked with street teens in the past, I will not go down without a fight in the case of an attack. The attacker always has the element of surprise on you but I reason that a healthy suspicion and a little knife are my only weapons.
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^ :eek: There used to be a time when people came to the rescue of the injured and attacked. It reminds me of house robbers in Somalia. One person screamed 'toog' and you had neighbours, street vendors, child and passerby alike jumping over the fence to chase the robber down. Now you get mugged at knife point in daylight without so much as a helping shout. Sigh.
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I carry a small knife normally used for peeling apples/oranges. It is tucked safely under my watch and I would never walk through a parking lot, at night, or in a different city without it. If anyone startles me, I will swing it to slash and kill so I don't give a damn if you're a parking attendant or just asking about the time. After 3 million crime shows, I know all the ways a girl can be hurt by freaks and wannabees. Sheeet.