Originally posted by Modesty: For example, why is it somali restaurants, they allow men to sit in the well lit areas, the cleaner areas with the t.v., yet women have to sit in a hole that's unhygenic, and bore lighting (yes, I have experienced this, and I was hungry so I ate there anyways ) Modesty, you should have either demanded better seating area or not given them your hard earned money. Where is the motivation to improve if women don't complain and continue paying for crappy service? Somalis, like other nomads, can be harsh, ignorant, misgynistic, and severly lacking in manners and decorum. This includes the women. Unless we speak up and demand better (and act better ourselves), nothing will change. I was walking by a group of older Somali men in a shopping area and noticed how they were pointing and laughing at a couple of Somali women with certain..*ahem*..physical endowments. I marched up to them and told them very quietly to mind their akhlaaq and respect their bloody age and useless grey hairs :mad: .

No religious party worth its salt (no matter the religion) would give up the chance to march people to heaven in chains. My suspicion is that these are growing pains and part of a plan to show people the upper hand in the absence of a huge army. I'm also suspicious of some of these being rumours to undermine the courts by die-hard tribal interests.

Khayr How come you never answer some of the questions you pose? You remind me of humanities classes in university, make a girl shake in her boots . Tell you what, I will answer the first 2 if you answer the last 2. Okay?

As long as love, peace, and hair grease is his motto, black women will reject his sorry a*ss .

Originally posted by KEYNAN22: why would anyone want their culture to be associated with these warlods turned waadaad. Islam is one thing and Arabic culture is something else, but these guys cant see the difference. I agree. But I also think Arabic culture is inextricably linked to Islam and not through language alone. Unfortunately, the peripheral issues of dress have been taken up in lieu of the core issues of justice in Islam. What we see in many Arab channels and papers are long-winded editorials on dress and not a word on the thousands of political prisoners among other deep and serious injustice hurled at the masses. If we're going to be Arab, might as well throw on the white dress, carry the palestinian shawl and get to business. About these courts, I think they did well for the people in Muqdishu. We Somalis sat the on fence while the 21 year regime shed blood, and then suffered under warlords for 16 bitter years. These beard-growing gentleman should get more than a few weeks to show their intent. We already suspect most of the TFG members are yearning for their share of Somali blood. If history is any indication, greed and power will reign and whomever gains control of Somalis long-term will cannibalize them sooner or later. Originally posted by Dhubad: Odaygaan tiisa aa haysato ee dhibka muu nagadaayo? Is old man Yey suffering from a neuromotor illness like Parkinson's? I saw a clip of an interview on the BBC and he was shaking uncontrollably. Had me a little puzzled.

Originally posted by Ibn Abbas: So to uproot evil and injustice we first have to start with our own Nafs once we have conquered that then start with your own household, it would be hypocritical to criticize a tyrant when we are doing the same thing in a smaller scale. What if after you've cleaned your nafs of all evil, straightened out your kin, and even sternly lectured your neighbours, people in power are still robbing and maiming. What do you think should happen then?

Viking, Indeed, slaves were given rights and slaveowner responsibilities with the birth of Islam. When Henri Dunant, red cross founder, visited several muslim countries in North Africa (1860), he commented on the 'relative mildness' of the slavery practice in comparison to common colonial practices. Slavery wasn't abolished immediately probably because it would have had a massive impact on the economy of the society. I think a ‘gradual’ abolition is but one deduction from the link between freeing slaves and acts of worship and/or righteousness. Freeing a slave in some instances in the Quran is akin to spending of one’s wealth, and a person who cannot do either can substitute with fasting. A slave is a part of one’s wealth, and giving of one’s wealth away (as in the case of freeing a slave or marrying one) are but one of the ways a Muslim gives away precious property to absolve sin, gain righteousness and so on. The issue whether this link was designed to eventually end slavery may remain a matter of conjecture. I've always believed the economic impact of slavery abolition and how it needed to be gradual was also conjecture at best. What was more central to the Arab/Bedouin’s economic, social, and spiritual life than polytheism? Nothing, probably. With Islam, it needed not to be eradicated in steps but was forbidden wholly and immediately. Owning a human being is a stinky affair practiced in all civilizations in one form or another. I think it was regulated by Islam as were other human relationships in the Quran. It's abolishment, I believe, came along with other human advances in knowledge and awareness. This design of God, in my opinion, is more relevant. Slavery was eventually eradicated and abolished much faster in Arabia than it was anywhere else in the world. I believe Saudi Arabia and Yemen both abolished slavery in 1962. While it is true that Saudi Arabia was only a country for about 3 decades by then, Islam was there close to 1400 years. A gradual plan of abolishment would have seen the death of enslavement not more than a few generations after the compiling of the Quran.

1. An African-American family in 1950s Chicago comes into some money through a life insurance policy. 2. No idea :confused: 3. Nora 4. Langston Hughes 5. Jean Valjean

^ Like when the tsunami hit Asia 2002. Actually, it hit in December 2004. Where was our rich Arab brothers then? 'Our' rich Arab brothers are very generous but no one gives them fair credit. They've donated so much over the years. Let me break it down for ya': they practically gave away Palestine, auctioned off Iraq, and continue to run Western-benefitting interference and fitnah amongst their people. But those are only a few. The majority donate to needy Swiss banks. They couldn't stand the images of those starving European bankers with bloated bellies, flies attacking their innocent faces, crying for one more dollar/dinar/dirham to save their wretched lives. In fairness to muslims in general and Arabs in particular, most are poor with the few rich running the show. These generous European/American governments give one dollar and exploit/rob five.

It's very interesting to see younger girls/women wearing their headscarves in the most colourful and some, beautiful manner. For the fashion conscious, it's nice to see how they coordinate the colours, prints and designs. For the fashion...*ahem"...challenged, it's a little frightening to see so much clashing in one outfit. I agree with you that no one knows what will happen in Akhira.

Hello Nur, So, are you suggesting that these women prefer to work their a.. off serving so many stinking men daily? Yes. Most do prefer to hook when they could be doing minimum wage or under the table work; this is especially true for people in western countries with social welfare systems. The men may or may not be stinky, depending on the 'class' of prostitute, if you will. I hear what you're saying: women enslaved sexually are exploited and most cannot escape. The prostitute I am referring to is not the one physically chained by an ‘owner’ but the one who may or may not be an addict, uneducated, or dirt poor. or is it because they fell through the cracks of a failing system? Some did, sure. I can’t help but think of the teenager escaping home, living on the street, addicted to drugs and simply selling his/her body for a score and/or a meal. There are complex social and economic reasons for people marginalized into prostitution, petty crimes and institutionalization. Have these women failed, or it is the sytem and its enforcers to blame? Both. Perhaps. If legal, the justice system cannot fail in prosecuting willing, adult participants. If illegal, then enforcement could and does fail sometimes. Since we are talking about western women, I am tempted to say that they are largely making a choice to prostitute. The same choice is made by the John buying sex. Supply and demand, unfortunately. I hear religious and psychosocial arguments of exploitation but I’m afraid they’re infantilizing and somewhat paternalistic. No ‘system’ can eradicate prostitution and not every woman (or gigolo?) selling sex is a victim, not here in the West, in the streets of Sofia, Nairobi, or Tehran. Sex trade will be exchanged by mostly willing people. When it comes to children or the physically restrained/bought (as in the article), then we have crimes of grave exploitation.

Nur, The Moral of the story: Cutting Hands (of criminals) is literally Cutting Costs! We can spray for mosquitoes all we want but if we have rotting, standing water, they will keep on coming! I watched a program on a news show that profiled a work training project for a group of women in a prison. Their crimes ranged from fraud, theft, and child abuse to more serious felonies. The premise of the project was to reduce recidivism by training this largely unskilled population in needed trades. They were trained in making pastries and restaurant management. The project seems so needed that female inmates in other prisons are rushing in with transfer requests and a rotating system is now in place. What’s interesting is that the majority of these women belong in one of 3 categories: poor background, uneducated, minority. The idea that the Mogadishu courts can solve the problem of theft (I gather that’s why you bring up this particular punishment) is an interesting one. Of course, it remains to be seen how these courts would solve that society’s problems in the long run. They certainly have done an admirable job curtailing the warlords. How they could possibly solve the deep racial and economic disparities behind the crimes of many of the 2 million incarcerated and not just the individual punishment of criminals will remain in the realm of thoughts. My guess is that when these Islamic Courts are running a society as rich and complex as the one in the US, their justice system will closely mimic the one already in place. It leaves a great deal to be desired as it contains a significant racial/ethnic policy but cutting the hands of thousands of already poor and undereducated people will not be a sufficient replacement. A thief, blue collar who swindles billions or a petty thief who snatches a purse from a lady are not punished the same in the Sharia. The blue collar thief's hand is chopped off, to cut cost of incarceration, and as a deterrent for would be thieves. Kenneth Lay died yesterday and I would have liked to see him go to his grave missing a few body parts. His money bought him great defense, time outside of prison, and all the other perks of privilege. Isn’t that what separates the punishment of the powerful and powerless in sharia-based sentences as well as seen in a country like Saudi Arabia? My thought is justice precedes punishment, equality before privilege, and humanity before the knife. These, in my opinion, are the serious challenges for any judicial system, sharia included. The petty thief can be warned the first time, wipped the second time, by his thrid time, his hand is chopped off. So the punishment for both a white collar criminal and a petty thief is ultimately the same except for the warning? Certainly, one has the possibility to continue life after the amputation (with even the means of re-attachment) and one is left even an greater ward of the state because physical disability is added to their impediments. Rehabilitation programs are expensive, can be poorly run, and maybe ineffective for many, but many crimes and criminals are a serious reflection of societal rot and injustice especially in a racially stratified society like the US. I’m not saying that prisons aren’t full of cruel, calculating, insufferable people or that the prison system doesn't create many serious problems. ‘Cutting’ the cost of crime would need to address this societal rot and injustice as well.

Originally posted by Viking: For scholars to succeed in doing their work properly, they need to be independent and funded by who they are working for, the people, not the govt. I agree. Scholars who are not serving political powers and not served by them can be judged by the people directly without a powerful intermediary. It's interesting to note these 2 somewhat contradicting principles in the Salafi creed in the old thread: [15]: We hold that the da'wah (call) of the Ikhwaanul-Muslimeen is not an upright and righteous da'wah that brings about the rectification of the community. Indeed, their da'wah is political, not religious. [18]: We believe that politics is a part of the Religion, and those who try to separate the Religion from politics are only attempting to destroy the Religion and to spread chaos. Originally posted by Positive: Our corrupt leaders and phony scholars are just reflections of the moral and ethical evolution of our society. It won't help to fight with them because they will be replaced by their likes. I agree that corrupt leaders and phony scholars are a product of their societies. However, fighting them is the ONLY way to curb their tyranny, restore justice, and allow effective leadership to take their place. Not only is fighting them necessary, it must be done by every generation, at every level of governace, and in every field including religious institutions. That there are other greedy elements in society is a given but that doesn’t deter a justice system, for instance, from arresting and prosecuting as many killers as caught. Only when the person evolves to a higher spiritual, ethical and moral ground have we won our real fight to rid ourselves of injustice, corrupt leadership and phony schoolar. The task then is not to make revolutions but rather that the person makes real jihad with himself by persistently trying to make himself a better human being. I’m afraid I don’t see how personal evolution could ever replace a revolution, no matter the form, against tyranny. I can understand your reasoning, that an overall lift in moral and ethical standards would certainly be reflected in the type of leadership in society. But would that be enough to ward off greed, special interest, and exploitation? I believe that couldn’t even occur at the family level, the smallest unit of governace, much less at the largest one.

Originally posted by J B: ^^^knowing that SB is already there and Naden is coming along , i don't know if i wanna stay. too crowded for my aloof a$$. Don't you wish you could hang out with us . And if you abandon the rest of your houris (63), you will get worse treatment than the gatekeepers you're threatening my friend SB with . Besides, if you leave, we leave, goddammit. Originally posted by Zafir: But I would like to tell you, better yet I’ will say it silently, read my lips Naden I ‘will say it slowly, here it goes. {Olive oil}. LMAO! Olive Oil! What kind of black women have you been fighting, nacho libre? Let's just say that you'll be schooled by this black woman in the art of choking a mexican fellow with his tights . But that's only if you have the honour of seeing the 'DEN (moi) on the other side.

^ :eek: Moi? I was just teasing JB and SB, but if your prediction looks like it's about to come true for me, I better not see you on the other side :mad: . You'll have first hand experience with a Negro-Nomad-Knockout .

The way I see it...growing older, giving birth and so forth are expected natural part of life that one is better off accepting as change is inevitable I believe so too.....sometimes . As foolish and superficial as it may seem, many women (and men) hinge a great deal of their self-worth on their physical appearance. It is a significant part of their sexual attractiveness to their mates. For some, a little nip and tuck does the trick. Surgery is drastic, no matter what, but keeping oneself in strong physical shape and 'keeping it together' goes with other life achievements. For women in a certain age group, breast enhancement, liposuction or other benign tricks do wonders for their self-esteem. I also try (as hard as it is) not to roll my indho when a pot-bellied 50-something tries to rejuvenate himself by going back home for a 20-year old.

Originally posted by Amelia: One thing is for sure, and I would like some1 to convince me otherwise if the case exists, no woman gets the implants because it makes HER life better. For a significant number of women, especially the middle aged ones, it is more of a reconstructive procedure than anything else. If they have nursed one or more children, the breasts lose their shapes and affect a woman's self-image. For many, it is both for their marriage and their image, particularly if the woman is conscious of her figure and has maintained it through exercise and so on. Not every woman loses the shape or is bothered by it, but it is something that no diet or bench presses can fix.

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- Women and girls trafficked for forced sexual or domestic work suffer post-traumatic stress on a par with torture victims, researchers said on Wednesday. Forced prostitution is a tiny fraction of the number of women (and men) selling their bodies for money. The remainder are doing it out of poverty, lack of work skills/opportunities, movement into urban areas, and many other reasons. In all, personal choice is a central factor. Prostitues can and do make the choice; outside of kidnapping and forced physical/sexual enslavement, addictions are but one contributor to prostitution. Illiterate women, educated women, young and old women, and many times men engage in this often lucrative trade.

Heard of many Somali women in the Arab world getting a little 'work' done. Probably cheaper. Do your boobs hang low? Do they sag and touch the floor? Can you tie them in a knot? Can you tie them in a bow? Can you throw them over your shoulder? Like a continental soldier. Do your booobs haaang looow?

^ :eek: :eek:

@ Socod Badne. Originally posted by ALexus-: Why are members associating marriage with unhappiness? I blame Dr. Phil. If he keeps showing fat, homely couples clawing each other's eyes out, marriage will be as desirable as a touch of leprosy. So far, marriage seems like a war-zone that gives you back rolls and funky breath. Unless Dr. Phil shows otherwise, people will say thanks, but no thanks :rolleyes: .

Interesting read, Positive. ……humans when in power disobey God, in my humble opinion is true. Although people transgress against one another and against their faith/principles even when not in power, greed and influence make the temptation more difficult to resist. Power and money have their own standards of morality and ethics which, I believe, religious and social mores have always tried to curtail. Of course, it gets complicated and highly effective when religion is fused with economic and military power and one uses or justifies the presence of the other in the subjugation of people. In our somali context I ask myself : Where is the islamic way of Life? Or do we belief that PURE RITUAL without proper religious intention and observance is a key to enter paradise? I don’t think we need religion to know that robbing your neighbour or killing him is wrong. Most believe them to be universal values, a human instinct towards good and Muslims are instructed to believe that their religion responds to a created, unchanged instinct (30:30); the failure, I reckon, is at this greater level. Do I think a religion should be blamed for the sins of the powerful and the silence of the rest? I don’t know. I do know this: Fir’oon (Pharaoh) is mentioned over 70 times in the Quran as he symbolizes oppression, corruption, and brutality. How important is this emphasis on this oppressor whose mention exceeds manners of ‘ritual’ such as ablution, charity and pilgrimage as well as divorce COMBINED? Are we to believe that God repeated the story of Pharaoh and his people simply to give a history lesson to the prophet and his followers across time? Is Pharaoh the only grand oppressor in human history? As demented and evil as he was, he is easily equaled if not exceeded by any engineer of genocide in the past few centuries, including our own leaders. What lessons are Muslims to draw from his story? People are expected to fight against oppressors, they are expected to fight tyranny, injustice, and genocide and if they do not, they suffer greatly in both worlds (43:54, 4:97). I couldn’t guess whether the key to paradise is through ritual (prayer, fasting, etc.) or personal ethics (bearing witness, keeping pants zipped up, etc.) alone but I believe able-bodied, quiet observers of injustice cannot guarantee a position of righteousness. Realizing that the faith urges people to reject oppression and injustice in all its forms, many scholars through an unholy alliance with the powerful have diverted attention away from this. Curiously, religious commentary in general has tended to be associated with ruling parties. We see thousands of volumes on ablution and others but a dearth on fighting injustice and corrupt leadership.

Originally posted by Socod_badne: SB, From one reprobate soul to another Originally posted by J B: ^ As if going to hell was not enough? btw, why are Jamilah, Waterlily and co are sending me to hell for what you(SB) do on SOL? Don’t fret, boys, you’re both going to hell. But isn’t that where all the cool kids go? . Speaking of hell, I just watched a movie recommended by a Syrian friend who’s up to no good like my friend JB with questions of who and where. I think he’s going to hell too . The film is called ‘I Love Cinema’ and his church went into a total tizzy when they heard of it. *Spoiler alert* for foreign film fans. The story follows a devout, albeit unstable, Christian of the 1960s adamant to save his family from the evils and degeneracy of movies. As he mentally spirals down, this father alienates his wife by refusing to fulfill his…*ahem*…duties, beats up his thief of a boss, and drills into his 6 year old son’s mind that he is going to hell no matter what! The child deals with this hopeless outcome the only way a 6 year old can; he becomes as naughty as possible. He spills water over pedestrians, blackmails relatives for gum, and urinates in a funnel and gives it to his grandmother as a gift . What’s point, he asks whenever someone tries to punish him, I’m going to hell. Great movie!

I'm with ThePoint on this one. Israel seems to have beat the Arabs in connecting and trading with African countries the continent over and have been doing so since the birth of the Jewish state. The Arab world's deliberate policy since Abdel Nasser has been spotty save for the odd Lebanese businessman trading in everything from arms to bicycles? There is a hint of racism in the reaction of some segments of the Arab society in response to this isolated act of foolishness. Browsing through some Arabic sites, I was shocked by the frequent use of Al-Mutanabi's verse "Don't buy the slave without his stick" in response to the actions of the 2 players. If the Israeli flag is so offensive to the psyche of the Arab world, why does it fly in a number of capitals? I do sympathesize with the disappointment of the average Arab cheering for Ghana as a partially Muslim country emerging to the pride of Africans and '3rd' world people.

^ Celebrity marriage news can be a little nauseating. The only thing worse are the images of their new, bowling ball headed babies splattered across tabloids. Blah.