^ Not at all. More skepticism than anything. This system is more akin to a profit partnership or equity partner. If you look hard enough, you'll probably find a credit union or a cooperative with similar values and practices. I've dealt with a credit union for the better part of 10 years. The charges and risk taking fees are always there, though, no matter where you go. It's the psychological appeasement that I don't necessarily seek in an Islamic term vs. a so called western one. The value and intent behind a policy/practice has to jibe with the meaning behind the Quran's words.

Originally posted by Djib-Somali: Now the problem arise when I decide to accelerate things if my income augment during the contract's period, ie I pay the rent plus 2 "supplements" instead of one each month. So the bank may ask for penalties for breaking the agreement, hence the misgivings in a Islamic point of view. If the agreement stipulated initially does penalize for early payments, despite your scenario being very much fair to the financial institution by payment of installment + supplement (a very interesting euphemism for interest), then the person in debt should pay the penalty. This is akin to an open and closed mortgage whereby the latter has such penalty while the former charges principal + interest but with little or no penalties. It's clear from reading many of the fine prints in 'Islamic' institutions that the risk factor taken by an individual/institution, known as interest, is simply replaced with other more acceptable words such as supplement, charge, sharing cost and so on. In 3:130, يَا أَيّÙهَا الَّذÙينَ آمَنÙواْ لاَ تَأْكÙÙ„Ùواْ الرّÙبَا أَضْعَاÙًا مّÙضَاعَÙَةًوَاتَّقÙواْ اللَّهَ Riba in the Quran refers to excess or add as read in 22:5 and 16:92. We would wonder about the ‘double’ of riba. Is there an acceptable percentage of ‘riba’ lower than the principal that can be charged (assuming the double in the verse refers to the principal and not the agreed upon excess/interest)? One wonders if the profit of lender is always haram when termed ‘interest’ and acceptable if called by another Islamic name. A rose by any other name is still a rose. The muslim psyche has it seared that interest = riba (of all kinds) = haram. I wonder if what used to be termed رباالنسية before the advent of Islam is what is made haram. People who couldn’t pay off a debt at the agreed upon time where given an extension but only if they would pay double or more of the principal amount. Modern versions of this exploitation are practiced by some financial institutions (and loansharks), whereby your monthly payments are only interest and your principal remains the same and due at any time. This may be different than الربا الÙضل which is the money/interest paid in trade or purchase of goods and is a fixed and agreed upon amount BEFORE a transaction. I think that until terminology dealing with riba as a whole as outlined in the Quran is made clear and reexamined, people will continue to be ambivalent about anything with a greater return than the principal including investments and so on. They'll also continue to be suckered into ‘halal’ financing of business and goods that doesn’t seem much different than its haram counterpart.

Originally posted by Northerner: .......The holy month of Ramadan is a perfect opportunity for beggars to earn money. In fact, many beggars who are dressed up as Saudis are in reality non-Saudis who flock to the kingdom on Umrah visas and end up overstaying...... ....... There are around 150,000 beggars in the kingdom. ....... Eighty per cent of the beggars are non-Saudis and the Coast Guard is able to arrest 19,000 overstayers each year. ......."Beggary is horrible, it spoils the beauty of our cities and whenever a person walks; someone will stop him or her and begin a long story which is usually false . The very sight of beggars standing at traffic signals with horrible deformities makes people sick ." .......Abdullah believes that the beggars operate in well-organised gangs and are taking advantage of Jeddah. "My children always ask me about these people: What do they do? why are they missing a leg or an arm?" he said. ....... Studies indicate that beggary is very much associated with stealing. According to researchers, the art of begging may turn into a habit...... ......."I have a friend in Kuwait who always tells me that it bugs him when he comes to the kingdom, " he said. Pity those Saudis, exposed to riffraff, cripples and the stench of poverty and the poor. Never mind the multiple mentions of giving to the maskiin and sa'el in the faith. While I think people who go there for Imra or Hajj and decide to stay should not be allowed to do so, they should at least have a way to appeal deportation and seek legal immigration. They probably are mostly economic migrants but aren't most people who seek immigration in the Western world?

Where did I lie, dude? The brother should preach. I need the laughs.

Originally posted by RendezVous: Since Islam is against feminism (read Prostitution/Multiple patners), against Liberation( read Stripping and walking semi-naked),homo-sexuality/lesbianism(Read Catholics) RendezVous, life must be good when everything is so black and white. Preach on, brother.

^ What's with the one-two punch, a welcome and then a demand? The poor girl gave what a polygamy thread deserves.

Is it just me or does the new Pope resemble someone who's been dead for a little while. My sister and I were watching his inauguration (is that what it's called?) a few years back and were totally spooked. The other dude looked okay but this one reminds me of characters in The Exorcist or Constantine. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

The Hudood Ordinance criminalises all sex outside marriage, so if a rape victim fails to present four male witnesses to the crime she herself could face punishment and prosecuted for adultery. Four male witnesses? :rolleyes: Just where in the book does it limit the witnesses to men in 4:15? But it revised the bill because of strong opposition from Islamic parties. Funny how much spirit and energy these Islamic parties are putting into rape legislation.

Originally posted by Castro: If one didn't have to pray to be saved, one really shouldn't bother. Good point. If all you do to enter heaven is to accept Jesus as your saviour, why bother with the church? Hmm. Maybe 'being saved' is not a one-shot deal. Originally posted by Khayr: Do the numbers: how many hours a day do you and your friends spend infront of the television and compare that to the number of hours spent on ANYTHING RELIGIION AFFLIATED? You are a good sample population and the same can be said of the kids in burco or capetown or manila etc.

How is this decrease in faith quantified? The number of people going to church, subjective reports of believing in a God, donations to religious institutions, number of worship places, etc. How does the good Pope decide that belief is out of fashion and God disregarded? Maybe the catholic church collected a few billion dollars less last year than the one before :rolleyes: . He ought to be careful. These millions of poor and oppressed Africans/Latin Americans, dropping their last bir or peso into a collection bin, may outgrow (or outwise) the after-death salvation in heaven and choose to keep their pennies.

^ Khara, indeed. I say a girl should propose, but only if she's about a stone throw's away from losing her virginity :rolleyes: . And I mean, trampy sluttiness is just around the corner. Other than that, keep a nickel between your knees and wait for Faraax to propose. Uff.

Originally posted by AAliyah416: Well as you all know polygamy was promoted back in the Prophets time since many women were being widowed due to Jihad. And as Hodman said that is the main reason Allah was encouraging young men to take on second third or fourth wife. Polygamy is encouraged in that time and every time for any man provided that the second, third or fourth wife is the mother of orphans. War is not the only manner in which the husband/father can die and leave a widow and orphans. The colourful scenarios of barren women (men account for nearly half of infertility), separated families (as though the remedy for being away from one family is to start another) and others are just sad. Widow + orphans = Candidate for wife number 2 or 3 or 4.

Originally posted by Fabiana: So ladies, [and I said ladies because guys are not that emotionally sophisticated when it comes to these situations] Who would you choose, be honest and answer as though You were faced with such predicament. I would forego any type of choice for now and not make any decisions. When marriage looms and part of you is not ready, all types of more attractive alternatives pop out of nowhere. It could be a Farax, a grad. program, or a job in a foreign country you wouldn't even consider visiting. Once you've derailed the marriage train, Farax #2 may begin to seem more real: mousy, picks his nose in public and just has that hideusly annoying habit of breathing in and out .

Originally posted by Cambarro: Obviously there was a reason that Allah permitted it. The only reason is to provide for mothers and their underage children whose fathers have died (orphans).

Originally posted by Amelia: Most suspicious and questionable of all in this thread tho, is Naden 's taste in men :eek: :eek: What's wrong with Djimon? :mad: He can save me from the Amistad any day.

^ Nah, will have to pass on the older men thing, the only thing that makes them grin is the TV remote and maybe an afternoon nap . A 20 year old can be trained to grin at the right things.

^ Don't forget to mention the 20 year old fine, young thing (a suspicious look-alike of Djimon Honsou ) who grins happily as he mows the lawn, puts up the curtains, and gets Haagen Dazs ice cream at 2 in the morning, massaging your feet as you wolf it down.

Originally posted by Shabanu: If you were fortunate enough to build your own home - How would it look like (the layout inside & outside)? It has to be on the beach. Not necessarily too big but must have lots of bright, natural colour (none of that yellow light haze that nurses melancholy). Simple, modern decor with mostly monochromatic colours. Repeat after me: flower patterns and fadhi sucudi are evil. P.S. Be realistic (you'll probably never own a mansion). :mad:

Originally posted by Umm al_khair: I was told by a sheikh that those who disagree waay kibirsan yihiin and a decent sister who know her deen will agree Ahhh! Multiple marriages like the famous Hargeisa coupling (tripling?) are interesting. I'll bet there isn't a single snot-faced orphan in sight . Tsk tsk tsk, the brother sheikh should present an argument stronger than kibir.

Originally posted by sheherazade: I won. Alhamdullilah. Mabruuk! I'm happy for you and a little jealous. *Takes notes from Sheh for her next Naden vs. Goliath fight *

^ Never mind the higher standards for women, demand them of yourselves, brother.

Originally posted by RendezVous: Cheap as in "Easy" to take them for rides...They call them Somali ladies( Easy and cheap..I don't understand what they mean)... but am sorry but you need to improve your ratings Originally posted by Khalaf: Why some of these women give precedence to an outsider who can shame her and discuss her business in public to a brother who would fight for her honor? Cause they cheap! For men quick to defend Islam at every corner, you sure do lack the common adaab of expression it encourages.

Originally posted by bilan: whenever i go to islamic lectures, or listen or read books about muslim women, it really pisses me off that they put all muslim women in one catogary which is wife/mother/stay at home. Bilan, I think the lecturers/authors' focus on mostly marital affairs is a reflection of their limitation. There are many writers/lecturers who address concerns about work, ethics, and finances among others. They may not be as well known as the ones you've run into or have the access to the lecture/TV channel circuits. If you'd like some names, send me a private message and I'll give you a couple.

Nur, you teased my competitive spirit with your questions so let me take a crack at some. What does Nicmah mean in that Surah? The nicmah in the fatiha is guidance to the righteous path. Why do we recognize a nicmah only when we have lost it? Our nicmahs are niqmahs sometimes. Now, Think about the possibility of Somalis becoming a familay again? Somalis never stopped being a family; being hateful and cruel is part of nature and if they had appreciated the nicmah of land, wealth, and each other, they would not have fallen. Can you recall the verse in Quraan that explains Nicmah from a brotherhood perspective? Al-Imran, Verse 103. By far, my favourite since I was a child.

Originally posted by Thierry.: So advice the leader and don’t loose patience, keep advising him and maybe he will take your advice. Advice wouldn't break up a fight between 7 year olds in a playground. Listen, I get what you're saying, all this business of 'bad' people being ruled by equally rotten leaders. I'm curious where you stand on the punishment of murdering/thieving leaders because my guess is that a common criminal would have the weight of divine and human legislation crashing down on his head. There is no reason for a leader be somehow immune from God's legislation and be tolerated until he wisens up and heeds advice, no matter how sinful the individual citizen. And I'm almost certain there isn't a hadeeth that gives tyrants sick notes from worldly accountability. If a rule can't be applied to one person, it should not be applied to others.