Tiiits scare boys, they bring back Freudian horrors of hanging off their mother's breasts. Yes, they actually do have a biological function as well . For preemies, breast milk is probably the difference between life and death.

Nur, brother, do you think this discussion on polygamy should at least include some mention, if not an in-depth look, at the issue of orphans and their mothers? The verse on polygamy is inextricably linked to orphans and being fair/just in their care. Is there a hidden assumption that every second (or 3rd or 4th) wife is a widow w/kids that my dense mind is missing in the multiple scenarios brought up by you and the posters? If not, why is the permissability of the practice not linked to the 2 conditions in the verse: 1) fear of not managing orphans' affairs justly, 2) taking a second (or 3rd or 4th) wife - no doubt the mothers of these orphans, or else verse 3 sura 4 would not bring them up at all.

I remember seeing a news report about a year ago that echoed some of the points in this report. Both the world bank and the IMF make me want to spit nails with their hegemonic policies and I think these positive economic changes in some African countries are happening despite their interventions. Serious curtailing of NGOs and arms traders from the US and Europe would improve African countries' political and economic stability. Sidenote: Whatever happened to John Githongo?

Originally posted by SOO MAAL: I cannot believe how some westernized people arguing without supporting evidence that west respects more women then Islam, or west protects human rights!!! You're comparing a lovers' spat to a religious figure's words. What exactly is it that you're defending? The right to demean women and just who beats whom in comparing them to dogs or left over cat food. Seriously! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lieutenant Xalane: Koran: 33:49"O’ Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their veils over their bodies. That is most convenient that they should be recognised and not be molested . The word you emphasized is not an accurate translation of the arabic word in the Quran which means 'harmed'. The molestation (which in this context, you gather as sexual) translation is surely filtered through the bottom-half mentality rampant in religious translation.

Restraints-ubaahne, after your failed attempts at Sheh's kidnap and molestation in the women's section, I can only do this:

^ Haldol-ubaahne, I think you've finally parted with reality. After borrowing Femme's abnormal psyc book, I'm diagnosing ICU-triggered psychosis with paranoid tendencies. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

The cleric's paternalistic drivel is hiding a deep hatred for women. This self-deceiving notion that he speaks on behalf of virtue or that most women can't make sensible judgment is a graft from the desert culture that is unfortunately stuck to the faith. The contempt for and fear of women is a hallmark of that culture. Any woman who's been to the Arab world knows the endless hassles, catcalls, assault and disrespect falling on covered or uncovered, young or old alike. About the role of women in adultery, he ought to just see a therapist and spare us the ugly, subconscious rationalizations as it seems he's fighting some personal demons.

The good cleric was probably hungry when doing the sermon and the only bloody pig in Australia is John Howard :mad: . Mufti......Sheikh......Imam..... It's nice to see we've been spared high priests. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Femme: Now, is there anything against this Islamically? Femme, the show is absolutely spectacular. For anyone who's interested in how the body looks and works, it opens wide a world of wonder; it is not to be missed!!! About it's haram or halal status, what's haram is clearly marked in the book. Wouldn't it be better for our people to wonder as much as these people do about how things work than worry about whether it is haram?

^ Seeker, I finally had a chance today to listen to the audio lectures on your site. The lecturer is clearly a history buff from his biography and the enthusiastic immersion with which he approaches early muslim history, specifically the khilafah times. In the first part , he takes some pretty generous liberties with connecting certain verses to historical events and weaves them both cleverly to comment on today's politics. He claims that the whole globe is waging a war against you. He makes some good points about American media and military spending. He also says to serve Islam now, we should emphasize different needs like dacwa and knowledge. He gingerly approaches economic/foreign policies although he quickly implicates religion in this war he claims is being waged. Unfortunately, he oscillates between the reasonable and the absurd, and takes a tour around nostalgia, dangerously flirting with idol worship in some of his references to the sahaba and first generations. He either lacks some critical skill in examining historical text or perhaps he is saving that for a different audience. In any case, he is obviously touting the popular themes in today's lecture circuit including a return to khilafah and Jihad. The second part is a different story. He pushes an armageddon type confrontation between the west and muslims, kufr and Imaan, through a JIHAD that he so poorly defines. He then makes a very curious link between this Jihad and Al-wala'a-and-al-bara'a. The lecturer says: some muslims claim that we’ll be victorious when we follow the path of other nations and pursue agriculture, business, industry, trade and technology. He, then, claims that this type of thinking is contradictory to the prophet’s (csw) instructions in a hadith to embrace Jihad instead of worrying about worldly preoccupations like farming. What floored me more than anything was his recitation of a supposed hadeeth where the prophet (csw) says “my provisions/risq comes from under my spearâ€. He suggests that this supposed hadeeth must mean that ghaneema or war booty is better than business, farming, or being a shepherd. His absolute final point, after listing the many enriching benefits of Jihad booty, was that muslims would not have to pay taxes any more as there would be plenty of wealth taken from kuffar. He, then, drop kicks a most brilliant Islamic legislation, which he may have remembered miraculously or authored instantly, that says the prophet (csw) deemed taxes to be haram and anyone who deals in any job that relates in taxes is cursed. Funny thing to say for a young man who received both his undergraduate and master’s degrees in state schools that are heavily subsidized by taxes . I thought I'd be able to answer your questions but I'm still getting over the above.

Originally posted by HeroOfCanton: Also they need 12 years of high crime rate to get over the Apartheid? Is that what you are going to say to the dead somalis? "I'm sorry but they monkeys haven't gotten over the Aparthied". ^ Attention seeking in an adult is a pitiful sight. Instead of spewing this shuban, crack open a book and add some depth to your non-existent knowledge. :rolleyes:

^ What was the second part of the lecture about?

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: .....I will tell that my mother to allow me to shukaansi you. Ummmm....yeah.....scary much?

^ Nothing Islamic about marriage being okay upon puberty; puberty is simply a physiological stage of development and some girls as young as 8 or 9 can reach it. That doesn't mean they're ready to be wives or mothers, these things are set by social mores and ethos. A society can decide that children need to mature mentally and psychologically (not just grow pubes) before they can raise families.

Khalaf, where am I coming from? I'm coming from the Northern Hemisphere. I see you're turning the discussion away from an idea into a person. Listen, in a few discussions, a person's way of seeing the world is relevant, in this one, it isn't. If this singular entity idea is not well thought out in your head or if you have more reading to do, that's fine.

Originally posted by Khalaf: What is missing is jammat islamiya. Khalaf, I'm curious how you got from the Quran and sunnah to this entity. Why is it missing from the life of the average Muslim, whether African, American or Indian? What do you mean by a jammat islamiya? Is it an institution like the Vatican? One of religious training like the Azhar? Perhaps a larger institution that releases religious edicts on all matters of legislation. Not sure about what you mean by start small, with about 1.3 billion people calling themselves muslim now. I agree with you about the colonial borders that are countries now. But there were ethnic and linguistic divisions that grouped people. They did not go away at the advent of Islam and will not now. To me, the term 'ummah' has relevance only in editorials and really has little meaning beyond the faith shared.

Originally posted by Khalaf: There is no single muslim entity, there is no unity, there is no leader. Khalaf, I'm curious about the shape you envision a single muslim entity would take. Particularly, I'm wondering how you see an islamic government forming to represent the 1.3 billion or so people, if a government is what you mean by this entity.

Neither the old chap nor his work are worth knowing. Scientific discoveries are made by people in labs. and fields, through mistakes and innovation. There are no scientific miracles in the Quran. Some scientific facts, yes, but no miracles to be deciphered centuries later. It is a book of spiritual and moral guidance, meant to complete the message that began with Nuuh. In another time, he would be touring with a circus or selling cure-all charms from the back of a donkey cart. He is certainly appropriate to raise the beaten spirit of muslims who've contributed precious little to scientific knowledge in the past few centuries. Now we can claim that we had all the answers all along and just need this incense-burning fool to show the kuffar who's boss. Blaaaaaah. I should go to bed.

This is rich! The biggest charlatan of our times bemoans the state of muslims. How many millions are enough for him and how many theories and scientific miniature will he squeeze out of the Quran to reach that figure? One thing he has right, the Islamic world is living in a state of backwardness. Only the likes of him engineer and benefit from it. Dr Al Najjar is the chairman of the Committee of Scientific Miraculousness in the Holy Quran and member of the Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs in Egypt.

Originally posted by NGONGE: How do you perceive Islamic censorship ? Is it spot on? Should it be increased or decreased? I think of it as tribal censorship more than Islamic censorship. Islam, the faith, allows all to conduct themselves however they fancy (limited by social mores, of course) at the very core of its ideology including the belief in God himself. Islam, the tribe, with its strong affiliations and revered symbols and figures, has to squash dissent. Writers, artists and journalists are usually the ones that push the limits of social mores, articulating what needs to be changed. Or so we’d like to believe. Their control is important but this is not something unique to a society that’s largely muslim. I think what hides under a cloak of conservatism, traditionalism, the way of the salaf, or similar terms is nothing but a protection of the tribal identity that is of Islam but is not Islam. Why complain so much, though? Putting people back in line serves its purpose for the powers that be, from business people to politicians to the self-appointed temple guards. As an earnest journalist, he ought to know that. So what if one journalist has his head cut off only to be drop-kicked through the slums of Khartoum? There are interests to protect. Goth has a blog and a site that people frequent and read, what more does a writer need? He has more audience than any Mu’tazala in the so-called golden era of freedom (foolish romanticism, if you ask me). Suck it up!

luck.................mack :rolleyes: Why the interest in hearing about an insect like him? I wonder why these most stimulating posts are in the women's section and not the General. :rolleyes:

That time of the month, huh, dude.

What a sad state of affairs when the entire muslim discourse shrinks to the dress of a woman. It speaks of intellectual bankruptcy at best. Whenever a group wants to distract the masses, in a muslim country or not, this vapid, endless pseudo-dilemma rears its head. Blaaaaah.

:mad: What is the point of the fundraising on the site? Who exactly are they helping? It sure as sh*it ain't the decapitated heads and Gitmo prisoners.