^ What do you think?

ThePoint, The point here is that this is yet another example of Africans saying you(the West) must do x, y and z for us to succeed. You're the only one saying that here. Fairer trade agreements and less tariffs are necessary for non-Western farmers to sell their produce. The Western world uses force to pry open markets while blocking fair trade. They are interested in raw materials, governments that amass weapons, and a populace that uses their products. This is not to say that corruption is not killing Africa or that better models of economic growth have been successful in other 3rd world countries. However, there are complex issues that plague many African countries including the IMF and the World Bank's involvement. Personally I'm in favour of less protection for western farmers but I can understand the reluctance to do so given the special nature of agriculture. You understanding it doesn't make it fair. I agree with you and the author that these crocodile tears and the entire aid industry should be scrapped. Even so, Western farmers have an unfair advantage, protection at the barrel of overt and mercenary guns. Any prescription for Africa should be the other way around - ie Africa must do x, y and z and maybe the West could help out a little. The West has an expressed interest in the demise of Africa. They are directly and indirectly benefiting from the thousand civil wars and the gutting of natural resources. Any more help to Africa would surely sink it.

^ How did 'fair' become 'special concessions'? Fair trade agreements as opposed to the protectionist policies in place now for the Western farmer.

Xiinfaniin, you will see from my earlier writings in the thread (below) that I do not place any blame for the muslim world's scientific lag on these 'few scholars'. For one, I don't consider them scholars at all; the muslim world has scholars but the miracles-in-the-quran-and-sunnah people are not one of them. I do put complete blame on them for misleading muslims into thinking that what they do is science. I consider the latter an opportunistic phenomenon (much like an infection in a weakened body), supported by religious establishments and governments alike. Illegitimate or not, corrupt or not, these sheikhs and their governments are in existence. Perhaps these frauds are as important as witch doctors, magic healers, and psychics in those and other societies. Nonetheless, their financial and social impact on the minds of the people cannot be dismissed easily. Large muslim population or not, poor/underdeveloped countries consume but do not produce much original research for many reasons including lack of infrastructure, poor funding and poaching/fleeing of scientists. What's curious but not unexpected is the emergence of a class of religious men who offer an alternative to the muslim world's scientific handicap. We’ve become nothing more than consumers of products and at the mercy of Western producers, thinkers, and tanks. Nearly seventy years of poaching thinkers of the third world in conjunction with economic meddling and instability, the muslim world has many decades if not centuries to begin contributing to the arts and sciences.

Khalaf,, instead of searching the man's heart and mind and guessing his intentions, engage his words and refute them if you will. At some stage, you will have to rise to maturity in discussion and expression and part with comfort phrases such as 'namean', 'chasing tail', and 'cats'. Originally posted by Northerner: I believe the Quran has a number of scientific verses with their accuracies only discovered recently. Northerner, what is the goal behind matching verses about creation with ongoing scientific research that may or may not be refuted? People who believe in the Quran don't need twisting of verses to the point of breaking to believe it is from God. What if some knowledge in embryology, physiology, astronomy, physics, etc...is refuted (as it surely will be), what happens to the Quranic verse that allegedly revealed this knowledge 1400 or 2400 years before? This need to constantly show that the Quran is not a hocky book, written by a long-dead Arab man, is pathological and fraudulent. Believers read the Quran receiving comfort and guidance; seldom do they need one more shaky, pseudoscientific interpretation to validate their belief. A very simple example of the deception: Al-Suweidan claims that there are 12 mentions of the word 'month' in the Quran. Statistically miraculous, he claims, given what is widely known as the 12 months in a year. A 5th grader will show that there are actually 17 mentions of the word. A correct count will show no miracles at all. But that wouldn't garner support from oil-rich Arab men and institutions, would it? This phenomenon of searching for scientific facts in the Quran is fraudulent. Not only because science back-up is not needed by the believer, but because it serves a few purposes including: 1. Trading in the beaten spirit of Muslim masses, fully aware that innovation and research are not encouraged and supported so an anaesthesizing alternative is offered. 2. Millions of dollars are exchanging hands in the way of funding for books, TV shows, and sites. Conferences and institutes that get a steady stream of funding to find even more miracles that will have to wait until the Western world publishes it in a journal. And then the cross-referencing and interpretation gymnastics will occur. The challenge for Al-Naggar, Harun, and Al-Suweidan is very simple. Find a scientific fact from the Quran (call it a miracle for the psychological comfort of the simple Muslim). Write about it in the form of a journal article, and then submit it to peers.

^ Why sulk? And the sky is not blue, it just looks that way . Now the discussion is all over the place (JB, what's with the taking of lives? :mad: We're still talking about charlatans with big bellies. ) Northerner, you had stated in an earlier thread that you've never heard of Al-Naggar or read his work. Have you since then? What do you think about the scientific miracles he gleans from the Quran in his multitudes of writings?

What if the dead guy: 1. Stole money from his company on a regular basis OR 2. Molested the neighbour's 10 year old kid OR 3. Hasn't visited his ill father in the hospital for weeks. What if the reason he was in the mosque was: 1. The neighbourhood sheikh bullied him at every instance OR 2. The father of a girl he wants to marry frequents it and he wants to look good OR 3. Maghrib prayers is the best time to sneak out of the house while the wife nags about the kid's homework and then slink off to the coffee shop. What if the dead guy is not dead at all but seeking sanctuary from the guy in uniform and taking a vow of bowing? Or maybe the picture is fake like that Saudi player video that shows paranormal jumps before the death?

What do you envision an Islamic state doing to ipods, tvs, music, and movies?

Finally! Women don't talk more than men. Always been bothered by nonsense studies that claim otherwise seeing the number of men who walk around in droves like chimps, talking trash, or with cell phones nearly glued to their ears. Here's another nonsense study claiming that flapping the gums is equal between the genders. Maybe commercials will stop peddling that image now. Uff. Men 'no less chatty than women' The chatty woman may be an unfounded stereotype The common notion that women are the more talkative sex has been dispelled by scientists in the US. Researchers who bugged 400 students to log their chats found little difference in word count between the sexes. The University of Arizona study, in Science, conflicts with previous US research suggesting women talk almost three times as much as men. Whether someone was an introvert or an extrovert was more important, said relationship experts. If only the psychotherapist had shut her mouth before she uttered: "If women listened more we might find men talked more than we thought, and if men listened they might find that women actually don't talk a lot of rubbish all the time. Some of what we say is actually valuable." Source

JB, I’ve read that Spain translates more books from English than the entire arab (largely muslim) world combined. Finding scientific miracles in the Quran to match on-going discoveries is a lazy, cheating student’s way of not falling behind. This lazy, cheating mentality is spread by coercion from religious charlatans with the support of governments most interested in a st*upid, controllable populace. I find Islam a dominant language of discourse nowadays. A book is not plagiarized and unimaginative, it is unislamic. A bad movie is not a useless bore, it is unislamic. A new theory of the evolution of gills is not shaky or more fiction than science, it is unislamic. I gather many muslims don’t like the manner in which as a group we have fallen back, especially in the past 2 or 3 centuries. We’ve become nothing more than consumers of products and at the mercy of Western producers, thinkers, and tanks. Nearly seventy years of poaching thinkers of the third world in conjunction with economic meddling and instability, the muslim world has many decades if not centuries to begin contributing to the arts and sciences. In the opinion of charlatans, the answers the muslim world seeks are not with scientists but with a temple guard, preferably one on an Arab space channel. This fellow will be termed ‘sheikh’ (or a top sheikh, a supreme council sheikh, or a Dr. Sheikh) despite Islam freeing people of the shackles of high priests. This sheikh will most likely grow a large beard and even larger belly (from not walking a step and not lifting anything heavier than a cup of tea) and wear a sultanate-style turban to seal his identity as a high priest. The temple guard will decide the worth of a scientist’s work in the muslim-non-muslim scale, and may even show that a matching discovery has been in the Quran all along and Zaghloul al-Naggar or this Haroun fella had to extract it. After the fact. Al-Naggar’s latest discovery is that the Quran predicted climate change. He probably doesn’t specify which of the multitudes of cyclical changes across time that the Quran documents. This is not an attack on learned people but on an unnecessary dependence on appointed religious figures for largely non-religious issues.

JB, A very simple test for the charlatans trading in the faith of many muslims (desperate to be as loyal a muslim as they can be and have a shot at heaven) is to extract a medical discovery or application BEFORE scientists do. Large muslim population or not, poor/underdeveloped countries consume but do not produce much original research for many reasons including lack of infrastructure, poor funding and poaching/fleeing of scientists. What's curious but not unexpected is the emergence of a class of religious men who offer an alternative to the muslim world's scientific handicap. More later.

^^^ Why should muslims aim to have as many children as possible?

^ Cara, I heard through the grapevine that your office is laying off barracudas. Mind putting in a good word for me before you get your box? *still sore about that senility thing in the Women's section* beeing younger than you means i still go to high school and hang around the mall. JB, flattery will get you everywhere , it even gets you forgiven for the Womack and Womack thing. * hates to have missed a SOL freind vissiting Stockholm, he could of have been my wintness. * Who's he? :confused: And I expect my Surströmming when I do visit :mad: . I'll be glad to be your witness and deny that you're methuselah.

^ 3 years???? He finished school 3 years ago???? :mad: Just how old are you, buster? *vows to kick JB to next Monday if he's younger than her* And never mind my a*ss, you got a job for me since you're hirin' and all?

^ You spoiled brat :mad: . Recruited out of uni., my a*ss! You need to hit the pavement and sell your soul to a devil or two.

^ An N-person is like Zafir. He rushes to a morning seminar, sits eagerly by the speaker and starts snoring 90 seconds into the presentation. He is gently escorted out when his snorts scare the front rows. I am an early riser if I get to do what the hell I want to do. If I have to drag myself out of bed, sit to noxious freaks on a bus, then speak to brain dead office mutts, then I have narcolepsy-on-order.

When was the last time you updated yours? I update them in my sleep. There are 150,000 versions of my CV circulating in 4 continents and 50,000 portfolio pieces. Recruiters are my biatches or I am their whore. Whatever :rolleyes: . Any stretches of the truth? Not a single iota. The truth is buried deep, deep under the mundane. Yelling at accounts payable clerks to send you 6mos. worth of paper translates into 'Streamlining Accounts Management'. Ever land a job you knew nothing about by blagging ? It's hard to land jobs you know something about. I'm expert at laughing at interviewing managers, though. What a bunch of posers! :mad: Ever looked back at the job description of the job you're currently at? Was/is it accurate? Heh? Is all of it one big game of deceit? From Start to Finish. I'm doing(avoiding) mine right now. Hence the topic. Edit: Sheh, fcuk lcuk, indeed .

Once at school, Erin has a grueling walk of 125 steps to her first class. Erin's brother Red suffers a chronic lack of heavily branded footwear. Hilarious! In fairness to the bored and affluent teens of these times, they fuel the entertainment and clothes industries. And they are probably no less spoiled and vacuous then their parents' generation.

^ :mad: I'll have you know, my memories of the 80s are sketchy at best. I was in pigtails while you rocked with Elton John .

^ You're welcome , don't forget those gnarly, looong nails eeeeek. I loved everything about the 90s. Love the 80s too but I was too damn young to remember firsthand.......NOT a word, JB! :mad:

^ Who you callin' old? I'll show you a Roman left hook. Anyone know how I can get my hands on New York Undercover DVDs?

Who the hell here was watching cartoons in the 90s? :rolleyes: ( *giggles at secret stash of Pinky & the Brain and Ren & Stimpy.......Stimpy, you iiiiidiot* ) 90s music, YUM! 2Pac Public Enemy (loved Chuck D) Boyz II Men Jodeci (YUM) Shai (double YUM) Karyn White Deborah Cox Shows Homicide: Life on the Street (Best fcuking show in the universe!!!!!) NYPD Blue New York: Undercover X-Files (I Want to Believe too!)

Originally posted by Jolie Femme: Anyway to have one without the other? What are some of those bullshit jobs that have great pay? I need a bullshit job. Director of First Impressions I actually saw a few with that title. They size up new candidates for a position and report to an interviewing manager. You may have to wear too much lipstick and hooker shoes but pay is not bad for a bullshit job.

Make me, Zafir! :mad:

Originally posted by AAliyah416: You would see anything in western countries from homo sexuals, rapists, children molesters etc. Things that one would never or rarely see in Muslim countries.