^ Nur, walaal, stoning for adultery is invalid, in my opinion, because the punishment is clearly spelled out in the Quran. The support for stoning and the distinctions made between the unmarried and married do not hold water on many levels.

Khalaf, the issue of death by stoning is one that has been in contention for hundreds of years as you must have read. There have been thinkers of Islam who found that there is no real basis for the practice/punishment in Islam given that there is a punishment spelled out in the Quran for adultery. The narration by Omar (RA) about the sheikh/sheikha is vague and truly inexplicable. The story about the rasuul (csw) succumbing to a Jewish woman's pleas to be stoned (to purify her soul of the sin) is steeped in the Jewsih faith and tradition. Arguments can be made for each side but I've always been of the conviction that there is no real basis for this practice in Islam. Adultery is no more hideous a crime than torturing people, molesting children, killing the innocent and so on.

^ Yum, just the right kind of thread to open after gorging on delicious mahi mahi and sundried tomatoes What happened to the his-and-hers stats? Surely they haven't forgotten about the smelly, warty boys.

^ Me too. Pocket-sized dudes like Bacluul can move mountains for a girl but women can be so stubidh sometimes, going for the tall one (even if he needs a bib for the occassional drooling).

An ambitious women will forgive an indiscretion or two. A book deal and a couple of TV appearences will solidify his wife as the victim-du-jour. In a few years, if she has the brains and some cojones, she might run for office and run after one of these rings. How the public forgets little blue dresses!

Northener, it's not about using money or the politics of it alone but using God's gifts to lift the misery of your brethren (and your own). The hypocricy behind asking for dua'a from the larger 'ummah' while wheeling and dealing with the transgressors speaks volumes about the misunderstanding (innocent or deliberate) of what it means to ask God to lift your misery. It has not lifted in the recent past and it will not lift. Somalia is a prime example as well.

Cara, it is more than a hunch for me. They also pay for the professional wailers on TV and in some mosques to turn people who can fight for justice into empty petticoats. Very often, they pay for an ex-freedom fighter to fight a present freedom fighter who will, eventually, also be broken and infiltrated.

GJ_Goate, indeed! Northerner, I am suggesting nothing of the sort because I don’t have that knowledge and nowhere did I mention patience or imaan . Some Arab cultures, especially in rural areas, have this tradition of paying some village women to scream and wail at a funeral. It is to emphasize the magnitude of grief over the loved one. To me, calls for duca’a for Palestinians ringing from every manbar and in every news article without action are okay, emotionally moving even, but no more a move towards easing their suffering than the wail of a stranger at a funeral. Now helping resistance groups with money and arms (the way Americans do with Israel), now that is deserving of a duca’a or two. Friday prayers will come and go, Hajj will come and go, heartfelt duca'as for Palestinians will come and go and a Palestinian child will continue to have 1/10th the water access that an Israeli child has. We can synchronize duca’as tomorrow with all in the Arab/Muslim world, and even include our Christian brothers (who dance and wail just as effectively) and not one roadblock will move by Sunday. Simplistic, perhaps. But the question has always been for me, what Muslims/Arabs need to do before they are in a position for God to help them change? They already have all that oil and the human capital. What are they doing with them?

^ I am calm. I don't see how I am lacking in adaab for questioning the ineffectual dua'a streaming day and night when mobilization and helping oneself is clearly a prerequisite for God helping you as well. You've rushed in your response, Jimcaale. I don't doubt prayers but question the passivity of a people who witness injustice in their backyard and think they're entitled to divine intervention.

^ This is my last reply to any post of yours as you are missing the very basics of adaab in conversation and expression. You have a long way to go before you are at a level to converse with me or anyone on this subforum.

^ In the meantime or after we've (and they've) done all that could be done with the resources available. Which comes first for change to happen? PS. It is 8:53.

I always thought it was a 'mishar' and not a 'minshar'. Hmm.

ThePoint, why the adolescent eye roll? Grow up, man, and contribute if you have anything to contribute. Ameen, it is all well and good, brother, that tough situations test a group's resolve. It is also well that we wish them (and other oppressed people) a speedy end to the suffering. I am not speaking about you or me as individuals as much as I am speaking about us as a group. We are told in Friday prayers, TV shows, books, and hajj to pray for the oppressed, and yet genocide continues to be visited upon them. I think of 8:153 and 13:11 and wonder if we may be on the wrong track.

^ Are you sure that it is the least we can do? I think Palestinians have had billions of du'aas going their way since 1948. What have they gained?

Just quit taking things that you haven't paid for. And you should always donate to charity no matter what. Your good should outweigh the bag opening and munching.

"You can find messages which say 'that is what the Prophet ordered us to do'. But you can show historically how they came into being, as influences from other cultures, that were then projected onto Islamic tradition." The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various - often conservative - cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control. Several centuries late and severly overdue. I do wonder about the sort of advising that someone named Felix Koerner is doing. Time to google him.

^ I am the founder of if-you're-going-to-do-something-do-it-right

She's alright but might need glasses. She can aim better and go for the chest or neck next time.

^ LOL @ Doakes, you know I'm still grieving over the cabinet scene. What an awesome character! Especially, the way he looked at Dexter and gestured that he had his eyes on him. Rita is one of those take-care-of-me-and-my-kids chicks who turn psycho possessive at the drop of a hat. That whiny voice doesn't fool me, she is due for a tranquilizer and plastic wrapping

^ I meant season 3. Hayam, so cool to find someone who enjoys Dexter. I love that cat suit he wears on one of his hunts. And the way he jumps over fences and sticks those psychos with the horse tranqilizer. Never been happier to see a Brit hag meet such a demise! Whenever they put one of those slutty, yet mysterious, chicks with an English accent in a show, it sinks. I rented Dexter and watched the DVDs over 2 days. Dextering someone is in my lexicon now, you do not want to mess with me. I am thoroughly disappointed with it being on regular TV, it is just too edgy for the masses that watch Deal or No Deal. BTW, that Rita is a snake. I just wish they would write an intelligent, remorseless role for a woman on TV. I am so sick of these clingy, whiny snakes.

^ Season two???!!! Damn! I think I missed it. Dexter is the best show I've seen since Homicide and NYPD Blue in the 90s. Awesome writing and great acting.

^ It is just the Zinah in another form Explain and substantiate, please.

Ismahan, where in the hadith that you've written does it permit ear rings? From what you've written, the earrings are the donations and the permission to have the holes from which they are removed is simply a deduction, no?

Ismahan, do you believe that hadith permits ear-piercing or merely recounts that women had their ears pierced and donated the jewelery hanging from them? Blessed, lol@ camel's nose. I guess what is good for the goose, or camel in this case.

It is very easy to sit back and make rash judgments about other people's decision but infertility can be devastating. At its most basic level, it is a yearning shared by most humans to have and raise a child of their own. It has nothing to do with lack of imaan or deen. Carrying, bearing, and breast-feeding your own child is one of life's gifts. To trust someone else with your child, who may or may not keep healthy habits and jeopardize there future health, is an excruciating decision. For the person insinuating that it will become a habit for the rich and lazy, it's been around for many years and surrogacy is mostly used by women who cannot carry a child or can only do so with serious health risks.