^ Karl, you think that an admonishment against the niqab is ' a great crime against Muslim women ' when there are millions of Muslim women struggling with inheritance, divorce, custody, violence, discrimination, and dispossession issues? A true sign of the moral and ethical bankruptcy of this wretched ummah, discussing a silly garment that wouldn't have seen the light of day had the white man not dug up some oil in an otherwise barren land. Hope your tableeq mentors are instructing you in something more worthwhile.

Originally posted by Karl_Polanyi: Any individual with an ounce of intelligence and the layman of this religion will tell you that Niqab has many evidences. Provide one.

My question was why critical thinking , questioning , remaining skeptic and/or doubting are the enemy of Theism? Critical thinking doesn't belong anywhere near how religious education is conducted. People are Muslims because they are born into a Muslim family and are told by their parents and teachers that opting out means hell. That means burning for an eternity. With fires that are made of other people and stones. If there is a self-respecting portion of the brain that has any sort of rational questioning into the teaching at the time, it would pack up its little bag and go home. A real good test of thesim's ability to win the hearts and minds of people (like a political party ) is to take hell and eternal damnation out of the equation. That ain't going to happen. An alternative is to wait until people are grown-ups and then teach them a number of religions and let them choose. The hell and melting flesh business will have a more comical effect on many at this age if they've never heard it before. Like the above proposition, that ain't going to happen either. In the meantime, my friend Johnny B will keep scratching his head at why people just don't question Islam (or Christianity, Judaism, Buddism) and us believers will continue to whisper acuudubillah under our breaths (feeling hell-fire bellowing and singeing arm hairs), remembering childhood stories of eternal torture rituals (ribs cracking, eyeballs squeezed out of big nomad heads, and drinking hell mates' urine) Johnny B, unless you can make that stuff go away, you're messing with our indoctrination We're just trying to deal and here you are sticking your tongue at us and gloating for not hearing the Manchurian whispers.

^ Feeling persecuted, snookums? Somebody call the waaaaaaambulance!

First order of business, she needs to return those 2 children to the woman from whom they were snatched. The birth mother should have her children back. Now for payback, this is what happens when you shack up with a low-down, dirty b@stard. What is she doing going to a sheikh and shoving religion into this matrimonial mess? If she really wanted a divorce, she would simply make his life hell and drop off the first couple of kids at the new hag's place. He would divorce her before her child-kidnap-condoning behind sat back on the sofa. Sharia can't fix this mess but a metal-covered Quran can be used to beat both of them on the head till they bleed. Edit: Oh shidh, C&H, I didn't realize she was a relative May the forces be with her. About the imams, that's what some of them do, peddle rotten goods to unsuspecting people.

Originally posted by Castro: quote: Segregated swimming pools ... Islamic Evening entertainment including nashids.... Sounds like a jolly good time. Nothing makes a vacation more memorable than a pool full of men and nashids at night. lol. Today's large developers and investors are absolute fools to ignore the muslim/halal demographic in marketing goods and services. I think I would pass on a chance to get beauty treatments and swim with a bunch of catty, gossipy women and their brats. And no eye candy too, pfffttt :rolleyes:

^ Che, agreed. The discussion seems to be based somewhat, at least initially, on the conduct of Al Shabaab youngsters with an elderly sheikh. No doubt more political than religious.

Isn't religion brought down to the layperson and isn't he or she the one to be condemned to hellfire for not doing this or that? Then offering interpretations is the least that they can do. And appealing to authority is a logical fallacy Naxar, don't forget the magoos.

^ That's what winter does to people. Four months of darkness and here we are, ripping each other's cyber throats This sounds like an interesting documentary though I've been disappointed lately with BBC programming.

^ Speaking of movies, have you seen the Book of Eli? I'm looking for an excuse to see it. **a wave and a smooch right back at Johnny B** Khayr, being part of a 'polygamous family' has all the appeal of travelling with Jim Jones to Guyana and asking for a cold cup of juice. Rephrase your tired appeal and maybe you will have better luck.

Those are pretty interesting!

El Generale, what's there not to get? One man plus 2 or 3 or 4 women. Marvin Gaye in the background. Let's Get It On...... Now if you throw another dude in the mix, then you have a haraam situation. Comprende?

^ Zafir! long time no read Khayr, so you want a woman to go from shame and depression to an orgy? That's a religious man for you right there.

Sherban, look what your student ID did to my screen :mad: And nobody is born in 1988 :rolleyes: Just kidding. I don't even know why they kept this inconsequential woman for all these months. They could have hijacked at least 5 ships or kidnapped 10 people. Somebody needs to brush up on their Six Sigma methodologies.

Che, the Hindus are on to something with this resurrection business. Makes death less daunting, horrific. Didn't know that about jellyfish, lucky buggers :mad:

Ngonge, Victorian? :eek: More like Inuit this time of year. Juxa, I'm suspecting a little troll of an Asian man who sneezed with his mouth open in the elevator :mad:

juxa, thanks Cara, it's still alive so the coffee can't be that bad. Ngonge :mad:

^ Getting over bronchitis that nearly touched on pneumonia. Have a crazed client sending me threatening e-mails, and my cup of coffee has something moving at the bottom. I just noticed after drinking half of it. Other than that, just peachy

You consume 3500 calories per day? I hope you are 8 feet tall. C&H's advice is sound. Cut your caloric intake down to 2000 maximum. Do cardio, intervals are usually great.

^ It sure is. It is also both curious and intensely depressing to see the rewrites before the blood of the people had even gotten cold. The new monsters seem to have given the old monsters a pass.

Castro and Che, no worries, today's single-cell creatures will be aabo-this and adeer-that in due time . Before we know it, they will be fondly remembered for wondrous achievements such as reducing the population in Mogadishu thereby reducing the nomad carbon foot print. With the beards and short trousers, they will be credited with the Islamic awakening of Somalis. Even the pirates will be taught to children as the Robin-hoods of geel-jires. All in due time.

Cara, literacy efforts, meager and woefully inadequate as they were, happened not because of Barre but despite of him. I have anecdotes, too, from my grandmother about efforts in the 40s, 50s and 60s to urge women and rural people to learn reading and writing in Northern Somalia. So what? It is a matter of public knowledge that his efforts in the early 70s to convert school instruction into Somali essentially aborted small, localized efforts at 'good' public education in its infancy. The results? In 20 years of rule, only a fraction of those who could be educated in English and Italian university faculties were (forget about efforts anywhere beyond Muqdisho). Layzie, I get your grievance about islamists and religious wear and all that. I get it. Successful institutions? The desolate condition of the country in 1990 is not a powerful testament to any success. Things that worked did so DESPITE of him and his thugs. Now some are giving an illiterate man who cannibalized his people credit for the work of Somali intellectuals? That's rich. There would have been so many more had he and his band didn't come into rule.

^ I see the rewriting of history is in full force and not a moment to spare. Listen, you and Naxar can share what you know about aabo Siyad with the few marines who have been stranded at sea since 1969. The rest of us actually have a living memory. Caydiid? Please! His big boy pants were courtesy of the Godfather of all things degenerate and murderous. Islamists? Ha! Naxar, built roads? equality? education? You must be talking about a different country. I don't know how old you are but I suggest you wait until those of us and the ones before us have actually died before writing fiction. Or use it with people born after 1990, they would not be the wiser.

^ Unusually deep reflections for someone only 17. I wonder how many of those wishes he achieved in those 60 years.

^ I can't believe you put that illiterate thug in the same category as Ataturk and Mohamed Ali Basha. What the heck did Siyad Barre know about the separation of state and religion? He didn't know the first thing about either. The only thing that cannibal did is decimate a society, directly and indirectly result in the death and displacement of millions, and propel a nation into lawlessness for 2 decades.