Originally posted by LANDER: Would Puntland region exist if Somaliland hadn't declared independance? the best guess is most likely NOT. LOL. Can you please get off your high horse? :rolleyes: It was the people in the North East which campaigned for a system of governance. Their politicians were busy taking part in numerous talks with southern warlords and doing very little to build institutions in the region. There were issues of security, regulations, standardization of laws, etc. Or do you think that we(somalis) dont deserve a functioning government? Or are you upset that this puts another hole in your quest to differentiate Somaliland from Somalia? Tell me what would you expect the ppl in the North East to do after seven(7) of no government and no prospects/signs of peace in the south? Alhamdulillah, they didnt wait around for the mogadishu warlords. Honestly, I am surprised it took as long as it did. CeelBuur, Dont confuse my thoughts on the internal politiks of Puntland with disloyalty. Contrary to what you believe, PL is made up of Six(6) regions: 1)Bari 2)Nuugaal 3)N. Mudug 4)Sool 5)Sanaag 6)Cayn/Hawd I dont view actions taken in any of those regions(such as Sool) as 'expansionist' in any way. Puntland forces have been in LA since at least 1999, so this is nothing new. But it is also very disheartening to see this waste of money in changing the status quo in Sool region. The money which is being used to conduct these operations(or any future conflict) would be better spent on: 1)Improving the dire health situation of Somalis 2)Improving access to clean sources of water 3)Creating affordable housing for the urban destitute in cities 4)Compensation for rural nomads affected by the continued banned on Somali beef 5)Investing in job creation to establish economic prosperity And the list goes on. Sadly, the political elite in Somalia dont seem to care about those issues. Most regular somalis back home are disengaged with the politics and distrustful of politicians. I dont blame them. Peace, BN

Somaliland: The 'nation' of Dreamers. Keep it up. Tell me why your 30,000 strong 'army'(or is it 100,000 now? ) has not reached LA yet? LOL. Talk about dragging their feet and taking their time. Are they lost? Maybe they should ask for directions. Or we here on SOL can pool our money together and send them a nice color map Altho I doubt they could count, much less read Maybe its me but I think they've gotten too use to lazying around hargeisa sipping coffee. Peace, BN

LOL@Ayoub. If you wanna talk about cowards and losers stick to the SNM. They hid in towns and cities behind women and children which were then bombed. If you consider that 'battlefield victory', then you need some help. Or do you still consider them 'brave mujahid' bla bla bla? And I dont think you should be insulting the struggle of Somalis to liberate the Somali Region 5(which is inhabited by all somali tribes ). Everyday our ppl there are oppressed, killed, tortured, raped by aids-infected soldiers, and god knows what else. :mad: Insha'allah they will have their freedom. Peace, BN

The article seems interesting. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

wind talker, Very well said. The image of PL has been overshadowed by C/Yusuf since 2001. Btw, can u send me a copy of that video? Originally posted by LANDER: But If I remember correctly Abdulahi Yusuf murdered the very people he was suppose to share power with, or am I wrong? You'll have to elaborate. As my impression of Puntland in those early days, I have to say it was very favourable even though I wasn't knowledgeable on exactly what their intentions were politically, The intentions have not changed sxb The website you reffered gives alot of historical information on Waqoyii Bari during the war and the years immediatelly after the war when they installed the parliamentary reforms, however almost no information on 1998-to the present For that info I would suggest Rebuilding Somalia: Issues and Possibilities for Puntland. Written by the same people(WSP) post 1998(PL). Although I think there might be too much information. Dont forget Amazon has a 30 day return policy or more importantly Yusuf seizure of Power. Yusuf was deputy SSDF leader at the time (Abshir was leader?) and was chosen as the President for the period of 1998-2001. In 2001 the PL parliament extended the mandate for another 3 years. I dont know if they had that ability in the charter, maybe Samurai or others can elaborate. Some elders and political rivals refused to accept the extention. Yusuf refused to hold another conference. What a receipe for disaster What I'm also interested in is what were the intentions of that early government that came before Yusuf. What governments? The regional(like Bari)? or SSDF/Isimo governments of the early/mid 1990's? Peace, BN

LOL LOL & LOL. Phantom 'sources', articles from the future, imaginary 'fighters'...WHATS NEXT??? I nominate SL Times for Propaganda Award 2004. For reliable news, I suggest AllPuntland.com

Is it me, or are HornAfriqe and Mr. Ceelbuur getting very chummy? Running around here patting each other on the back and congratulating themselves....what's up with all these 'back-up singers' lately???? LOL.

Lander, Although I am not the most knowledgeable, and the reasons behind this post are suspect, I'll add my 2 cents First, can you please give us some of your thoughts on this subject? What were you feelings towards PL between 1998-2001, when there was a democratically elected local government? Is it different from today? What if the leader of PL died today? It seems, to me at least, it has less to do with the leadership of PL rather then it's preceived threat to your nation state. Wether it is C/Yusuf or any other leader the conflict over Sool and Sanaag would remain the same. Or do you think otherwise? Although I do agree that democratic reforms are needed and should be carried through immediately. The local elections seem to be getting post-poned for one reason or another(something he must have learned from Egal ). Btw, C/Yusuf is as much a dictator as Egal(allaha u naxaristo) I was under the impression it was to emulate Somaliland and create another independant and stable region from the former somali republic. Where did you get this impression? Which made some sense to me, until a couple of years later after a disagrement in some talks in Hargeisa Can you expand on this a bit? What talks in Hargeysa exactly? So if the intention from the get go was for the regions in the area of Puntland to remain under Somalia, than why rename the area? and why the name of PUNT an ancient civilization that incompassed half of East Africa? why not Waqooyi Bari Province or something of that sort? why use the more secessionist sounding word of Puntland? I dont see how the name Puntland is secessionist in anyway. Unless you also believe Queensland region in Austalia also has seperatist aspirations... But what if the federal formula was not accepted by the south/central Somali leaders. What would be the position if the PL people and leaders??? Would they accept the same pre-1991 political structure of a highly centralized unity state? Or would they take more drastic actions? For more background info on the NorthEast between the 1990s read the North East Somalia Regional Reports Peace, NB

This has been happening for thousands of years. I just saw this on somaliweyn.com At Least 6 Nomads killed in Somali Zone Clan Clash Jigjiga, Jan 13 (JNA) - At least 400 Somali zone residents fled when a long-running dispute between rival clans over grazing rights degenerated into clashes in the southern town of Wardheer, residents said today. The Ethiopian army who traditionally defuse tensions between ********** and ****** clansmen failed to stop the confrontation, which broke out last week and persisted on until this week in the town of Walwal, some 105 km northeast of the regional zone admin of Wardheer City. The confrontation set members of the ****** clan against the zone citizens from the ********** Tribe. Sources among the ********** Wardheer zone said they had lost 9 men while the ****** lost 19 of their men. Clan sources said more than 37 nomadic tribes were wounded. Residents said the clash was rooted in a dispute that has been rumbling for years over access and the ownership of Walwal and Wardheer zone. Recently there were other major clan clashes between ****** and Abaskuul in Dagahbour zone, ****** and Sheekhash in Fiq and Raaso zone as well as ****** and *** in Aware zone. Jigjiga news agency jigjiganewsagency@yahoo.com Jigjiga, Jan 13 (JNA) - At least 400 Somali zone residents fled when a long-running dispute between rival clans over grazing rights degenerated into clashes in the southern town of Wardheer, residents said today. The Ethiopian army who traditionally defuse tensions between ********** and ****** clansmen failed to stop the confrontation, which broke out last week and persisted on until this week in the town of Walwal, some 105 km northeast of the regional zone admin of Wardheer City. The confrontation set members of the ****** clan against the zone citizens from the ********** Tribe. Sources among the ********** Wardheer zone said they had lost 9 men while the ****** lost 19 of their men. Clan sources said more than 37 nomadic tribes were wounded. Residents said the clash was rooted in a dispute that has been rumbling for years over access and the ownership of Walwal and Wardheer zone. Recently there were other major clan clashes between ****** and Abaskuul in Dagahbour zone, ****** and Sheekhash in Fiq and Raaso zone as well as ****** and *** in Aware zone. Jigjiga news agency jigjiganewsagency@yahoo.com

Speaking at the launch, Muktar Diop, the World Bank director in charge of Somalia, Kenya, and Eritrea, said reliable data had been missing in Somalia since the civil war broke out, destroying long-established government institutions. "We didn't have any data to start with," Diop said. It was hoped that the survey, meant to be the first in a series of annual socioeconomic reports on Somalia, would help to initiate an "orderly intervention" there, Diop said. Currently, he noted, Somalia received only about US $100 million annually from the donor community. "This was not just an academic exercise. It is a project that will go a long way to help start the process of rebuilding Somalia," he said. "We want to be ready as a donor community to come back to Somalia in a forceful manner, once the peace process has been completed." Somalia is considered one of the poorest countries in the world, a situation aggravated by the civil war and the absence of a functioning national government for over a decade. According to the survey - also referred to as the "Somalia Watching Brief 2003" - 43 percent of Somalis live in extreme poverty with an income of $1 a day or less. Also present at the launch were representatives of the self-declared republic of Somaliland, the self-declared autonomous region of Puntland and the Somali Aid Coordinating Body and members of Somali civil society. http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=38914&SelectRegion=Horn_of_Africa&SelectCountry=SOMALIA

Originally posted by Angel-Dust:

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: [QB] Salaan... Wooow. I didn't know nooh in ee Boosaaso geed talaal ka baxo. Mise geedo kale aan arkaa, mise kuwii Xamar laga bililiqeystay aa Boosaaso lagu talaalay? LOL. How did I know you would say something like that? You are getting very predictable sxb I can see you are well-versed with "Billie Jean" dance-song. Originally posted by Samurai Warrior: Bari - By the way, I do not see the natural habitats I have been reading about such as deero, cawl, garanuug, biciid and the likes which are said to gaze outside the fence with the local people enjoying their meals in the inside. Or was that Panorma hotel? Perhaps. But I am not the best equiped nomad to answer that. Originally posted by LANDER: nice looking indeed... I actually like the look of this hotel more than ambassador at first glance to be honest. *Gasp* I'm surprised Angel, Gediid, and the rest aren't here accusing you of 'treason'. I'll be sure to attend your court hearing I personally like the style of the Ambassador--not much of a fan of the 'suburban' look :rolleyes: Maybe when you have a chance to visit both, you'll give us a more complete review. Later. BN P.S. Saw this site Lucky Star Construction

Originally posted by Angel-Dust: would I be guilty of generalisation if I concluded the men of Putland are rude in nature and whimps in manner?? Yes, and you would also be 'rude' yourself. I personally not even sure the bloody place[Puntland] exists?? Well if thats not The Pot Calling the Kettle Black... Well Dusty, 'Dust' Ya'self off and try again

Hotel International Village Its no 'Ambassador' but I think its nice It should be completed by the end of the year. There is also a full interview in the link below. Later. BN Interview: HorseedNet.Com Waxaan halkaan idiinku soo gudbineynaa wareysi uu Wargeyska Kaahi Bari ka qaaday Dr. Kamaaludiin Xaaji Aadan oo kamid ganacstada deegaanka Bari oo dhawaan kafuray Hotel Cusub magaalada Boosaaso Hotelkaasoo lagu magacaabo Hotel International Village

Puntland’s VP addresses the nation amid invasion from Somaliland Garowe (AllPuntland) – “Young and old; Men and women, we must all defend our country” excerpts from a radio speech by the Vice President of the Puntland State of Somalia, H E Mohamed Abdi Hashi who addressed the nation in the wake of armed raids by militias from the neighbouring Somaliland (Northwest regions of Somalia). Our local reporter notes that the Puntland police came under attack, but were quick to disperse the attacking militias killing two of them and taking eight of them as prisoners. Included are the son and a brother of Mr Adde who is believed to have escaped to villages near Aynaba. The injured were being submitted to Las Anod main hospital for treatment while the prisoners were transferred to Garowe, Puntland State capital. Mr Hashi in his State address called upon the public to remain vigilant, calm and defend the country from invading forces of Hargeisa administration. “I am calling upon the people of Puntland State of Somalia, young and old, men and women, to defend the country against the blatant invasion and cowardly aggression of the Hargeisa administration. We shall be victorious for we are being attacked. And we are on the defence” said Mr Hashi in his radio speech. Full Story

Puntland State placed under martial law Garowe (AllPuntland) –In an extraordinary meeting in the State capital, Puntland State parliament unanimously voted to place the State under martial law shortly after an evaluation report regarding the security condition of the State had been reviewed, and reports of hostile activities by militias loyal to the government of the self-declared republic of Somaliland in parts of Sool, Sanag & Any regions had been deliberated. Amid reports of heavily armed militia movements in villages near Las Anod in Sool, and pursuant to the attack on the Puntland police in Tifafle on the 9th of January, Puntland government announced the State to have been placed under high alert suspending all other government activities, until security matters had been resolved. In a press statement distributed to the local media, Abdikarim Sultan, Minister of Information confirmed reports of militias from Somaliland entering into Puntland State borders in a flagrant invasion interfering with the security of the State as a whole, Sool, Sanag & Ayn in particular. Military generals were given executive orders to place State forces on full alert, be prepared to defend the territorial integrity of the State, and to safeguard the security of the regions susceptible to attack. AllPuntland News Desk Link

US wants normalized Somalia AFP , WASHINGTON Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 DIPLOMATIC PUSH: The US, concerned about terrorism in the lawless African nation, is considering a diplomatic effort to restart stalled talks on resolving strife The US is considering a major diplomatic initiative to help create a functional government in lawless Somalia, a senior US State Department official said Friday. The aim would be to restore the war-ravaged country to some form of normality for its impoverished people and rein in terrorist elements, including some affiliated with Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, the official said. Should it proceed, the US push would see significant US financial, logistical and diplomatic assistance funneled into faltering Kenyan-mediated negotiations between Somalia's warring factions, the official said. It could be modeled on US support for peace talks between Sudan's government and southern rebels, also being mediated by Kenya, that appear close to producing a settlement to end 20 years of civil war, the official said. US President George W. Bush's administration, which has placed a high priority on the Sudan peace effort, is studying the feasibility of Washington's involvement in the Somalia talks, the official said. A report on the possibilities is due to be completed within 60 days, the official said. Full Story

Every country looks out for its own interests. What does Egypt have to gain by supporting the secession of Somaliland?

In 1989 the government of thug-President Mohamed Siad Barre declared war on Somaliland This guy is obviously confused... First, the year is incorrect-the war started looong before 1989. Second, Barre declaring 'war' on all regions of Somaalia at differnet points. Third there is no mention the rebel groups(SSDF, SNM, USC etc.), which was fighting to overthrow the dictatorship. [for] fears that the Somalilanders wanted to go it alone. Acuudubillah. 'Somalilanders' in 1989 wanting to seperate as the reason for the war??? In 2001, 98 percent of voters opted in a free and fair election for a new constitution that boldly proclaimed the case for independence. LOL. First, some regions did not vote. And I thought it was 97% 'Yes' vote? But whats the difference when the numbers are all made up right??? Somaliland then had successful, internationally monitored, local council elections in 2002 and a free and fair presidential election in April 2003. Acuudubillah. Again some regions boycotted the elections. Second, the elections were as far from free and fair as you can get. The presidential election was most notable because the ruling UDUB party, led by President Dahir Rayale Kahin... What? No background info on Riyaale??? I guess it wasnt worth mentioning... Somalia still does not have a government and is still in absolute ruins This guy obviously has no idea about Somaalia. Or that most of the country is peaceful and rebuilding through the efforts of local people. In addition, the recent killing of an Italian nurse and a British couple raised concerns across Somaliland that it is still vulnerable to terrorist attacks from those who are determined not to let secession go forward. There you have it! This reporter, and p/t sherlock holmes, has solved the cases before the Riyaale government. Not only were the killings committed by what he calls 'terrorists', BUT their reason was to undermine the secession of Somaliland. This, even though, the killers have not been found or tried in court.

Sudan, Yemen, Ethiopia form the 'Sanaa coalition' Regional-Ethiopia, Politics, 12/29/2003 The Sudanese foreign minister Mustafa Othman Ismael has expected that Presidents of Ethiopia, Sudan, and Yemen will officially sign a treaty for the foundation of "Sanaa coalition" during their meeting in Addis Ababa. Ismael told journalists in a statement on Saturday that leaders of the three countries will discuss the treaty, which provides for establishing the coalition, and will sign it on Monday if approved. Ismael explained that the presidency of the coalition will be transferred during the meeting from Yemen to Ethiopia, and the leaders will review a report from the ministerial council of the coalition for the foreign ministers of the three countries, during their meeting on Sunday over tripartite relations and regional security. On the other hand, Sudan's ambassador in Sanaa, Othman al-Sayed, denied that the Sanaa coalition will be directed against any country or group, noting that it rather aims to strengthen relations among the three countries. This came in retaliation to press reports indicating that this coalition is a sort of alliance in challenge of Eritrea, a country in tension with the three said countries. The Ethiopian foreign ministry announced that the prime minister, Meles Zenawi, and the Sudanese President, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, and his Yemeni counterpart, Ali Abdullah Saleh, will discuss means of strengthening political, economic and social relations among their countries. The Ministry added that talks during the summit which will start on Monday, and last for two days, and will deal with means of strengthening peace and security in the African horn. Worthy mentioning that this is the second tripartite summit between the leaders of these countries, who had held their first meeting in 2002 in Sanaa, which was the birthplace of the coalition. Sudan, Yemen, Ethiopia form the 'Sanaa coalition' Eritrea: Asmara Dismisses Accusations of Causing Instability Eritrea 'region's trouble-maker'

Hyderabad's African old guard The crowing of the cockerel greeted me at Mohammed bin Hassan's immaculate little house, down a side street in an old quarter of Hyderabad. While some of India's Sidis came as slaves, this southern city's community has its roots in a troop of guards recruited to serve the Nizams - the old Muslim dynasty of this one-time princely state. "My grandfather came from British Somaliland, from Hargeisa. My father was born here," he told me. "The Ethiopians here speak only Urdu - me too," Mohammed bin Hassan told me. But he has no regrets about having lost his Somali culture. The Sidi ancestors were guardsmen brought over by Muslim rulers "Nothing African is left - no music, no clothes; everything is Indian"-Mahmud bin Farzullah Hyderabad's AC Guards district still has a distinctly Muslim feel http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3116817.stm

Some ppl wanna blame all their problems on C/Yusuf and/or muslim 'terrorists'. Good luck First, I wouldnt put too much into this map as it is not even correct. For example Ceel Afweyn is located west of Ceerigaabo, not east. Not to mention the regional borders demarcations. The federal system based on the 18 provinces has some pros: -forcing people in regions like mudug/sanag to work together and solve their problems. -less regionalism. -bring some anti-federalist on side(such as MMA, HornAfique ) -Bring onboard C/Qasim, Muse Suudi, and complete the peace process(that might be stretching it). And cons: -more beauracracy/politicains -more money -less freedom for people to decide to merge regions -weaker states(infrustructure, economy, institutions etc)

I actually believed what he was saying. He sounded so sure an was very convincing http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000A08JQ/202-3086148-7659058

Saddam Hussein is a murderer, tyrant and a coward. He asked his people to shed their blood to fight the americans and HE surrenders without a fight. Cowering in a rat hole eating Mars bars The least he could of done was go down fighting like a man. For gods sake his 15 year old nephew DID !!! :mad: He doesnt deserve anyones sympathy or respect. But iraqis arent ****** . They know that US/UK/UN sanctions killed 500,000+ children in iraq in the 1990's. But I doubt you will see any of those leaders on trial...at least not in this world.

The americans seem to be living in a fantasy of wishful thinking. Believing that capturing a man who has been living in a hole for the last 8 months will put an end to the insurgency. Most(if not all) of the insurgents are fighting AGAINST the occupation, rather then FOR Saddam Hussein. And I doubt continuing to kill civilians and protestors will help their efforts to install a stable pro-western(read american) puppet government in Iraq. Peace.