Originally posted by Mobb_Deep: quote:Originally posted by LANDER: When the SNM entered Berbera, why did they not decapitate this alleged war criminal like all the others? Does anybody honestly believe they would have spared him in the hopes that he may lead the country one day? non sense. The SNM had already done enough killing, if a significant number of citizens started pointed fingers at Riiyaale I imagine they wouldn't have wasted no time to kill him. Lander, there was no finger pointing in the SNM false Jihad na'mean. You simply had to be the wrong tribe at the wrong place. Anyone from Siyaad's main umbrella tribe was simply decapitated in all the main Somaliland cities. Women, children, men ... whatever. The only option open was to scape and only few did na'mean. It is comforting to hear a lander confirming the horror stories of people being "decapitated" by the SNM hooligans na'mean. Crimes commited against innocent people are recorded by Allah. Siyaad Barre and his criminals will get justice from Allah and so will the SNM savages na'mean. I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth, saxiib if it makes you sleep better at night to equate adeero Morgan with the SNM, than go ahead. But don't assume others believe in the fairy tales you have been told to justify tribal cleansing. The topic was Riiyaale and SNM was an example but you obviously like to run with that topic whenever you can. Its obvious you believe Morgan is somehow justified maybe even a hero, and you have the right to believe whatever you like. That being said, I suggest you let others show hommage to the freedom fighters to whom some owe their families lives.

N-sister, I can relate to some of your sentiment towards education. I think getting a formal education is somewhat overated in our society. As an undergrad most Uni profs will tell you that you won't you use 90% of what you learn once in the workplace. I think the little paper that most people strive for better known as a degree, is somewhat indicative of the materialistic and superficial society we live in. People will often judge you and your intellectual capacity simply based on whether or not you've received a formal education. I don't like working for others myself and much less taking orders, but that is the world we live in. As depressive as it might be at times you gotta get that little piece of paper, smile and nod and be phony to get ahead. At the end of the day the best advice I can give you sis is that not everybody thinks like you and you must keep that in mind. The quicker you work now, the less you'll have to conform to the avarice norms of this capitalist society in the future.

Originally posted by Casey: Puntland leader denied entry to UK The leader of Puntland, Abdillahi Yussuf, who left the UAE Monday evening for London was denied entry to the UK and returned to the UAE. ......... Yusuf said the British government’s receiving of Somaliland President and its acceptance to open a British representative office in Somaliland as well as allowing Somaliland to open a representative office in London was tantamount to recognition of the breakaway state, warning Britain that such action would make it an enemy of the Somali people . This guy is a joker, I had a good laugh with this one. First he wanted to take advantage of the countries medical care and when he was denied entry he started name calling and threatning in typical warlord fashion. "yez you are enemy ingirisii, enemy waryaa you hear me? :mad: " I'm sure the british are shaking in their boots, they've officially been threatened by 1-out of 55 warlords in somalia. Isn't he aware that wining and crying raises stress which in turn will probably raise his blood level? he better chill out and leave the politics a bit before he catches a heart attack. I suggest a healthy diet of caano geel and some corn .

Sue, walaal since you say you are new to the whole S.land political landscape allow me to share a few observations and ask a few questions on the conclusions that you seem to be drawing. Speculations such as this can be debated interminably but lets pull back and examine the validity of some of the claims facing Riiyaale. Believe me I'm no fan of the man, but as a reasonable person I don't have much to hold against him in terms of war crimes. I say this because I remember reading and hearing quite a few articles and opinions on this matter a few years back. The usual array of eye witness accounts (numbering in the 100's if not 1000's), former subordinates to verify direct orders and mass graves being directly linked to an alleged war criminal where simply not present in the case of Riiyale. Mind you he was part of the NSS and as an intelligence apparatus they might specialize in not leaving evidence behind. Still common sense tells us that if he was directly responsible for so many assassinations there would be more evidence and more importantly witnesses. That being said, there is another inconsistant fact regarding the faith that was reserved for war criminals in that turbulent time. When the SNM entered Berbera, why did they not decapitate this alleged war criminal like all the others? Does anybody honestly believe they would have spared him in the hopes that he may lead the country one day? non sense. The SNM had already done enough killing, if a significant number of citizens started pointed fingers at Riiyaale I imagine they wouldn't have wasted no time to kill him. Another observation I've made is that Riiyaale's Udub party won/or got close to 50% of the vote in berbera in the last presidential election. Matter a fact that was one of his strongholds if I remember right, because as I looked at the figures one of the toughts that crossed my mind was- how could this alleged war criminal be so popular among the populations he allegedly victimized? that didn't make sense to me either. Mind you,I have no proof of the contrary to say with CERTAINTY that Riiyaale did not do the deeds he was accused of. Is there a chance he might have done what he was accused of? YES. Is it likely or reasonable? NO at least not with the facts we are presented thus far. The final factor I would like to remind you of sis is POLITIKS , yes one of the oldest games in human history. The political opposition always finds a way to demonize the opposing sides political leader. In the case of S.Land, whether it be Tuur, Ciigaal, Siilaanyo, Riiyaale etc...heck even throw in Warabe in there, the opponents of Somaliland will find a way to demonize them for their own motives believe me. That is the first dimension or should I say the external factor; there is also the internal political game, opposing parties such as UDUB and Kulmiye supporters will find ways to target one another in the most vicious way, ahhhh the "beauty" of democracy . Sometimes watching poltical debates is not much different than watching an old re-run of Jerry Springer. I seen two old taiwanese parlimentaries Karate choping each other on TV the other day, it was quite amusing.

Iraqi troops refused to fight in Falluja Monday 12 April 2004, 9:42 Makka Time, 6:42 GMT The Iraqi soldiers said they would not fight fellow Iraqis A battalion of the new Iraqi army refused to go to Falluja earlier this week to support US Marines besieging the town, American military commanders have said. US Army Major General Paul Eaton said the Iraqi soldiers had told the American military they had not signed up to fight fellow Iraqis, according to the Washington Post on Sunday. "(Eaton) declined to characterise the incident as a mutiny, but rather called it 'a command failure'," the Post said. It quoted Eaton, who is overseeing the development of the post-Saddam Iraqi security forces, as saying the 620-man 2nd Battalion of the Iraqi Armed Forces refused to fight last Monday after members of the unit were shot at in a Baghdad neighbourhood while on their way to Falluja. The commander of US forces in Iraq, Lieutenant General Riccardo Sanchez, said the incident showed there were difficulties still to be overcome with the Iraqi forces. "This one specific instance did in fact uncover some significant challenges in some of the Iraqi security force structures that have been put into place over the course of the last six months," he said on NBC's Meet The Press. "We knew that there were some risks that we were taken by standing up security forces quickly. And we also know that it's going to take us a while to stand up reliable forces that can accept responsibility for both the internal and the external security of the country," he said. 'Command failure' The Post said it was the first time US commanders had tried to involve the new Iraqi army in major combat and the battalion's refusal to fight "is casting new doubt on US plans to transfer security matters to Iraqi forces." US troops besieged the town for several days "The lines are blurring for a lot of Iraqis right now and we're having problems with a lot of security functions right now," it quoted Eaton as saying. The 2nd Battalion is one of four in the new Iraqi army. It graduated from training camp on 6 January. Eaton told the Post the battalion's mission in Falluja would have been to help with secondary military tasks like manning roadblocks and securing the perimeter. He said one problem was the Iraqis were not told they would have a relatively benign role. "The battalion thought it was going to be thrown into a firestorm in Falluja," he said. Eaton described the situation as "a command failure" and refused to characterise it as a mutiny. Reuters

This is a joke right? Are my muslim brethren in the US naive to the point where they believe their vote can make a significant impact? Beyond the demographics, it is obvious the "republican" and "democractic" parties are not too different in terms of their political obligation to uphold and protect american/zionist hegemony worldwide. Politically acute americans know very well that no american president would dare endanger what they like to call the "special" relationship with Israel. They can bark all they want during the campaign trail we know things change once they get to the white house. I really do hope for the sake of those muslims that John Kerry prooves me wrong.

what is pathetic? it is pathetic to be called reer xamar now? or do you suppose I have ill will towards reer xamar simply for pointing out inconsistencies. Most the somali folk I know out here are reer xamar including my neighboors, its all love and kaftan. I wasn't making any statement regarding xamarawiis, so leave your insecurities at home folks. 1

Originally posted by Sophist: Soomaali. Luqadeena wa luqad aad qani u ah, oo runtii hadii eyno xitaa erayada soomaaliga oo idil aan rubeceed aqoon laheyn waxaan runtii ahaan laheyn qooraayaal qaali ku ah aqristayaasheena. luqadaa reer waqoyiigaa ninkaan isku qasbayaa baal eega. Waraa af xamarawiiga so daa niyoo, I've notice you throw the usual "abowiis" "abaayo" etc... in previous threads, you ain't foolin nobody with this "jiidali, Sanaag" claim.

I seriously doubt Sharon would go as far as killing Arafat, he's bluffing trust me. Arafat is useless anyway, may Allah forgive me for saying this but he would proabably be more usefull as a martyr than alive today. Not that I would wish death upon him, but he lacks some back bone.

Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: Sammurai, when people are extremely angry, they sometimes become irrational and do absurd thing. From what I gather, Islam doesn't permit such actions. well said libaax, the lack of moral scruple demonstrated by these perpetrators is obvious, but often when we look at such horrific images we allow our emotions to impair our sens of rational and realism. We all fall in that trap at one point or another, its just human nature. In this case though, we have to keep in mind that we don't live in the place of those people in Fallujah or Baghdad. We don't know their state of mind, if they might have had fathers, uncles, daughters, mothers etc....fall victim to the imperialist occupation force. This still doesn't justify the gruesome acts, but if we could understand what motivated those people, than we might be able to put things in perspective instead of letting our emotions run wild. Speaking of perpective, does anybody have exact figures on the amount of Iraqi civilians murdered in this war? I guarantee the number is easily in the 100 000's. Last I checked on the american/zionist propaganda machine (CNN), the number of dead american soldiers was around 590's. I think these pictures where some sick way of boosting arab national pride since they feel so helpless in doing real damage to the american occupation. Let's all try to keep a clear head when confronted with such horrific images, and let us all try to keep matters in perspective no matter how hard it might be.

Samurai, thanks for the link. Exactly what is the hypothesis you refer to on the upbringing of young Somalilanders? By the way, Somali is my first language, french my second and english my third. That is the order in which I learned the languages. lates

Samurai, where can I find more works by the professor? By the way, af somaaliga waan ku hadlaa lakiinse qoritaankaygu ma ficnaa. Since most people talk in english in this forum anyway I opt not to massacre the written somali language and write in a language that I can at least write with mediocracy. Baashi, you are right in the sens that this entire colonial history and how it plays into present geo-political realities, is a long subject I do not want to elaborate on at the time. Maybe another time.

A clear breakaway from his usual line of thinking, and use of language by the good professor here. Wonder what might have influenced his newly-found paradigm. Nice reading though, Cheers. Curious. Just what was the profs usual line of thinking? Originally posted by Baashi: Another good Professor, a foreigner, doing the bidding for the secessionist. Note the classic use of the word "protection" to disguise the colonialism. Don't forget he is a well known Orientalist. Last I checked Somaliland was a british protectorat and not a full pledged colony. I know you would like to rewrite history but stick with the facts if your trying to make a point. I thought Samurai/jack with the pride he takes in his darwiish history would be a little offended at that, since it was his ancestors that fought to keep the "protectorat" status and nothing more.

Suldaan, those are the only 5 that have veto power, Israel, Germany and Japan are not permanent members of the security council. You see, it was established immediately after WW2 and therefore the vanquished powers such as Germany and Japan where left out.

A native of Gabileh? How typical of an emotionally charged detractor. In short, it is obvious that this man traveled overseas for the main purpose of antagonizing Somalilanders. If by mentioning Gabileh a town inhabited 99% by Somalilanders, he was hoping to minimize the broad support that exist for independence within Somaliland, than I ask why he doesn't take his rhetoric to Gabileh itself? Shouldn't he first convince the people at home that secession is not the right path? Another Detractor among a long list, he is not bringing anything to the table other than his obvious comtempt for the existence of Somaliland. This small minded politician should stick to teaching his geography, but than again it is often too much to ask of a somali to be more productive with their time.

Qudhac, Nobody is snapping at you, like you said you are intitled to your own opinions. You can come up with all the hypothesis you like on this topic, nobody is trying to silence you. That being said, when you post them on a public forum opinions are open to criticism. Your attempt to reach out to those who usually reject your opinions on unrelated matters is valiant, often in the exchange of ideas it is better to start off on common ground. However, your efforts come across as appeasement in my personnal opinion. ..... desire a broad national government when regional stability hasn't been achieve sheikh yassin: One must be able to crawl before attempting to walk or sprint. What we need is real and tangible peace/security in Somalia; before we can implement complex and debateable institutional as well as constitutional systems of governance. At least one person agrees with me on that point

Qudhac, Its is intriguing as to why you pre-occupy yourself so much with these matters. So the warlords have problems getting along, this is nothing new to any of us. But I notice a re-ocurring trend with your exhausting energy at fnding resolution to problems that are futle. Trying to solve the problems of other somalis will not make Somalilanders look any better or worst in their eyes. That being said there are many matters that require our attention and effort at home. I believe that the best way to influence and commmand respect is to lead by example. You want the feuding regions to see the light? show them how well Somaliland can be develloped without much external intervention. Show them what somalis can do whitout the aid of foreigners to solve their internal issues. One more suggestion, try not to oversimplify these matters because that is the same trap the Somaliweyn proponents always fall into. They desire a broad national government when regional stability hasn't been achieve and the warlords who hold these poor populations hostage haven't been tamed. You wish to unify these warlords that dream day and night for the destruction of Somaliland, be carefull the statements you make saxiib. Many of them wish for our demise and some of them even act out these wishes by sending terrorist elements in the real sense of the word into the country.

Originally posted by Baashi: ^^Aah! Quebec analogy! In case you don’t know, the PQ are promoting Quebec's need for independence in order to protect its French language and culture all the while Northwest secessionists want to separate because that corner of our Somalia had been colonized by different European power than the other parts of Somalia. What the secessionist proponents need to understand is the fact that any decision that has the potential to profoundly and fundamentally change the nature of Somalia must be decided by all Somalis. There are many foes whose interest is to see the Somalia that once existed dismembered into pieces - weak, disintegrated, etc. Waa sidey tahay! Baashi, did you miss the part where I stated Quebecers are a "distinct" society? believe me I know too well their french culture and heritage, I have no interest in wasting my time replying to your non-sense as you probably like to argue for the sake of arguing. What the stubborn naive Idealist like you have to understand is that Somaliland has not/will not be held hostage by other somalis PERIOD. If you think otherwise, I invite you and any other Somaliweyn to back up your bravour and will see how far it takes you.

Gunners aiming for record, and Man U. are the miskiins layed out on the shooting range like helpless victims , ironic twist of fate. Man U. will be in the history books for all the wrong reasons off course. Arsenal move towards equalling winning record 20/03/2004 - 6:30:07 PM Arsenal 2 Bolton 1 Manchester United may be powerless to interrupt Arsenal’s remorseless march to the title but only Alex Ferguson’s side can now prevent their main rivals creating a slice of history on the way. However, this was by no means the serene progress towards equalling the all-time top-flight record of 29 games unbeaten since the start of the season that many had expected at home to Bolton. Arsenal may have moved ominously into a two-goal lead after just 24 minutes with Robert Pires and Dennis Bergkamp sweeping home superb strikes. Then again, losing a two-goal lead at Bolton in last season’s run-in had ultimately cost Arsenal the title and they came perilously close to suffering the same fate again. But even though Ivan Campo pulled a goal back on the stroke of half-time, Kevin Davies wasted one free header and this time Arsenal held on as they were denied two late penalty claims of their own. Arsenal may have had one eye on their Champions League quarter-final against Chelsea as they were guilty of a lack of concentration either side of the interval. But while Don Revie’s Leeds side of 1973-74 and Kenny Dalglish’s Liverpool team of 1987-89 were undone by Stoke City and Everton respectively in their 30th games, United are Arsenal’s next opponents at Highbury. And it is hard to imagine the Gunners relaxing on their lead against United as they did against Bolton. Despite kick-off being delayed, Arsene Wenger’s side were straight into their flow as Thierry Henry struck the bar after just six minutes. Indeed, despite the conditions and Bolton’s attempts to interrupt Arsenal’s rhythm, it was not long before the home side were predictably ahead. Edu, who has grown in stature with each game this season, was the midfield fulcrum, playing the ball forward to the evergreen Bergkamp, who laid it off to Pires. The Frenchman still had considerable work to do, but rose to the challenge by curling a shot inside the far post, leaving Jussi Jaaskelainen with no chance. Only the timely intervention of Simon Charlton with a headed goal-line clearance then denied Henry and Bolton were clearly rattled. Under pressure from Henry, Emerson Thome headed Edu’s long ball past his own keeper but was relieved to see the ball roll just past the post for a corner. Jaaskelainen did manage to deny Ashley Cole from close-range but he was left horribly exposed as Arsenal then doubled their advantage. Henry was sent haring down the left flank by Pires but his over-hit cross would have left most ordinary strikers struggling to control the ball, let alone get a shot on target. Bergkamp, however, is no ordinary striker and simply swept the ball into the net with aplomb as he met the cross with a first-time volley. Arsenal were now toying with Bolton, but they were guilty of relaxing on their lead before the interval. Indeed, when Jens Lehmann could only half-clear a corner and Bruno N’Gotty’s shot was blocked, Campo was allowed the space in which to swivel and fire his shot into the roof of the net. The warning was not heeded as Stelios Giannakopoulos then grazed the crossbar with a header on the stroke of half-time. And with Arsenal still sluggish at the start of the second-half, Bolton could - and, indeed, should – have equalised. Stelios chipped one effort over the crossbar and then planted a cross on the forehead of Davies, who was standing unmarked just eight yards out. However, the striker headed just past the post and then saw another effort blocked by Kolo Toure as Arsenal’s defence continued to struggle. The Gunners remained as dangerous as ever on the break but Henry was foiled by an outstanding save by Jaaskelainen, while Pires and Bergkamp blazed efforts over the bar. Substitute Fredrik Ljungberg had a clear chance to clinch victory but stumbled as he struggled to reach Bergkamp’s pass as the goal beckoned and was also denied a penalty. Arsenal’s mood was not improved when Henry’s claims for a spot-kick were also turned down when N’Gotty tackled him from behind just as he took aim inside the area. However, where they had collapsed at the Reebok Stadium last season, this time they survived, just as they did at home to Charlton a few weeks earlier. And that, above all, is the crucial difference in their title campaign. History now beckons.

Spadez,thanks for the explanation of Qurbe. I think their is a solution to these self-proclaimed terrorist. Since they are so eager to claim al-itixad or threaten NGO's how about they be handed over to some people who know how to deal with these infesting cocroaches. Somalilanders are too nice, they probably won't get information out of them, I say hand over to the Americans , they go bananas anytime they hear anything having to do with organized terrorist. Let them enjoy a stay at Guantanamo, I hear the beach view is excellent.

Qac Qaac, Saxiib you have every right not to support Somaliland and to still claim the region, however this doesn't change the fact that your in minority among Somalilanders as most of us opted for independence nearly 13 yrs ago. Your Quebec analogy is flawed, sort of like comparing apples and oranges. Despite the fact quebecers are a clearly distinct society within Canada, they were one of the founding provinces of the confederation back in 1867 and have been part of Canada ever since. That is for over 130 yrs, and you might have forgotten they had a referrendum in 1994 initated by the seperatist party BLOC QUEBECOIS, that was defeated by a slight margin. Therefore the people of Quebec did not want to seperate from the rest of the country. Somaliland on the other hand was in union with the rest of Somalia for mearly 3 turbulent decades and voted overwhelmingly in favor for indepedence in the referendum. Some critisized that referendum, but even if the remote areas that did not participate had every one of their citizens vote against the secession, it would have made little difference. The numbers would still favor independence by a great margin. I take the time to right this hoping you are sincere in understanding the unique situation of Somaliland.

Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: But one must be very careful not to portray Somaliland as a state not welcoming other law abiding Somalis merely because of their clan affilition. It truely sends the wrong message which would only re-inforce the perception by some that Somaliland is a state that still upholds tribal privileges despite its recent advances in direct local democracy. Libaax, I agree with you 100%, I think "careful" is the right word. I personally wouldn't mind seing Somaliland become a safe haven for all somalis, but what concerns me is the current mood and atmosphere of the population. I don't know how welcoming they would be to other somalis given the current state of affairs. Hopefully though things will cool down and the atmosphere will stabilize once again.

Gediid, I'm not sure where Qurbe is, but this guy should be prosecuted. After the latest incident with the german NGO, there is only a hand full of them left. These cyber-cowards wanna chase away all the workers that wish to help our population; If this guy has been identified he should be brave enough to face the music. They should lock him up for good for all I care, make an example of him. These cowards think Somaliland is some sort of playground for their homicidal habits, they should learn to think otherwise.

lol DnD you don't wanna make the queen mad Originally posted by LANDER: An influx of people who are not native or known to dwell the area could lead to instability. Libaax what is your take on this? DnD sis I think you misunderstood me, by people not native to Somaliland I didn't mean Somalilanders or the diaspora like yourself. Rather I mean't the other non-somalilanders that they are proposing to send to the region. I'm pretty sure thats what the british government is negotiating, setting up refugee camps for all somalis who are rejected asylum in the UK.

Hibo, Inform yourself on the fortunes Somalilander business men have made in Ethiopia. Don't be ignorant if that isn't too much to ask. What is a shame is that under the old regime, these people couldn't make business because their land and wealth would be confiscated for xaasiid and qabiil reasons, therefore they opted to do business in ethiopia where the locals were grateful for their contributions and they were able to put their entrepreneurial skills to use.