Originally posted by presidentofsomalia: im from Hargeisa and What neighborhood? oh and try not to run to your next door neighbors house to ask

Originally posted by Mansa Munsa: Mr. Guled’s clans, on the other hand, had served as mercenaries for the British and he seems to be proud of it. This only shows the gaping gulf between our values. Sool has a history of supporting Somali cause. Others have a history of stabbing Somali causes in the back. This is where I part company with Guled and cite the holy Quran where it says “Lakum diinukum waliya diin†Mohsin Mahad UK Email:Mohsinmahad@yahoo.co.uk source: wardheernews.com How Ironic is it that one would use the quote of "lakum diinukum waliya diin" and also allude to a historical even where one party used religion as a means to justify much crime and violence. Did somebody forget to tell ina Mohamed Abdullah Hassan "lakum diinukum waliya diin"?

C.G, You touch on many points that may require a separate discussion for each case, but let me try to address what I can for now. You’ve outlined a definition of a state as being (as far as I understood) a territorial delimitation that is more or less set up arbitrarily and that is dominated by a group of elite and where by the remainder of the population serves as ‘worker ants’ or proletariat as Marx would put it. Assuming we agree on these characteristics of a state you went on to say that you believe a smaller state is ‘weaker’ than a larger state. By weaker, I cannot know exactly what you meant but would be fair to assume your referring to economic strength as well as strategic and military strength. I’d have to say I still don’t see how a larger state (assuming we’re focusing on greater land mass and population) necessarily means a ‘stronger’ state. For one this may go against one of the fundamental assumptions we just made which was a ‘state being dominated by an elite and the rest of the population falling under the role of labourers’, since the elite are greatly outnumbered by labourers, we can only assume that a larger country would a greater number of both groups in a proportional way which doesn’t really explain how or in which categories a larger state would be more beneficial. The second point being from real life situations or empirical evidence we notice that there are many smaller states that are economically, strategically and militarily more powerful than some larger countries in this world. Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea just to name a few, why do you think it is these countries don’t fit your criteria? Maybe even before that, you could explain how a larger nation has greater access to resources and whether those resources are internal or external. As for your question I think it was along the lines of who profits from sovereignty? In theoretical terms I’m afraid I don’t have a single answer for you, that may depend on your understanding of the role of the state. But you were alluding to Somaliland and this brings us again back to the point of your definition. If two states are political entities equally dominated by elites and are simply there to demark “one territorial boundary from the otherâ€, than how does there separation harm them and make them ‘weaker’ or more susceptible to the attach of “another psychoâ€?

^Are you sure you really liked the conservative platform? or maybe your just liked their pretty blue signs who's colour closely resemble that of the flag of Somalia.

Originally posted by Animal Farm: the Liberals are too corrupt exactly who are you talking about, Paul Martin and members of his former cabinet?

Jay, Let these folks spend their precious time dwelling over every article put forth by foreign intellectuals. It really bothers them to see third parties who don't apparently any direct interest in Somaliland,to be continuously writing about it and spreading awareness of the issues facing it. Typical response is the one put forth by this author, instead of applauding this foreigner for understanding the complex geo-politics of a third-world region that is bordering on insignificance on the global stage, he tries to lecture him in his own warped, fallacious, self-righteous and typically fascist views. Yes it is a pity the likes of him don’t spend more time doin real ish for his beloved Somalia.

Originally posted by Allamagan: Folks, I can understand Duke's protest, as there were no lucrative contracts left! sxb, take adeer to SOL to show your work here. and prove him wrong! am lol. Am I just seing things or am I just missing the latest info in the TFG drama? did yeey suffer a coup, why is Duke criticizing? I don't think in all the times I've seen him post in politics he criticised aderkiis. Has the world been turned upside down or has Puntland embraced democratic ideals overnight. What is the world coming too, I've seen it all and heard it all now. Waryee Duke you need to ease off that green leaf mayn, mirqaan will make you say silly things

Originally posted by Caano Geel: So are you saying that see the role of the state as the guardian and protector? If so who does it protect, how does it identify them since it cant protect anyone and in whose interest does it protect? C.G, your asking alot of open ended questions that may not have any simple or unique answers if you will. Seems your questioning the role of the state in general terms and I'm sure you might receive a multitude of all valid answers to that questions and in practical terms you can also find an equally large if not greater amount of ways the role of the state is undermined in a given situation. That said, I just hope you also question yourself on the 'why not?'

Originally posted by Jaylaani: He was never embraced in Somali history books before Siyad Barre came to power…I wonder why? Kacaan legacy is well and alive what more can you say sxb. I wonder why the likes of OLOLdin were never glorified?..anybody care to speculate? Say 30 years from now, could Farah Caydiid be elevated to super-hero status on a "national" level by the next dictatorship in Somalia? After all he did fight the modern day neo-imperialist forces of the U.S.A and unlike inah Abdulah Hassan he was succesfull in his quest to drive them out. History is a funny subject at times don't you think? Seems to me somalis of all walks of life, subsconciously yearn for some form of historical heritage to boast of in whatever form in may come. In our case (somalis), as a collective nation our history is obscure and our impact on greater civilization is insignificant at best. While we waste time bragging and glorifying our petty past, the world seems to be leaving us behind.

I think Palestinians already gave up long ago on regaining all of historic Palestine, rhetoric coming from militant groups is usually just a way to inspire their followers more than a real ideological belief or expectation to actually one day regain all of historic Palestine. The media often makes the palestinians seem very undiplomatic but the truth of the matter is they would be willing to settle if given a contiguous territory in the West bank and would conceid quite a few areas annexed by Israel in the west bank. However, it seems they were never even offered a contiguous area but rather patches of land which the Israelis suggested would be linked by underground roads and not to mention all the major water ressources from the jordan river and elsewhere would fall in Israely hands, along with the most fertile territories of the west bank. -A map showing the Barak-Clinton proposal at camp david -Since than, some Israeli right wing government members (Sharone)decided the Barak proposal was too "generous" and came up with the following ingenious plan -In all honesty, considering the amount of palestinnian territory already annexed, I don't see how a two state solution will ever be implemented. Right now the only possibility it seems is a One state solution and the palestinians having demographics on their side may be able to change the state from within. Who knows anything is possible.

It is very much possible, living in the west we are not often taught the history of other civilizations aside from the glorified past of the europeans. I remember an old teacher/friend of ours once showing an image of the old chinese sea vessels on scale next to the Santa Maria of colombus which looked like a little dot in comparison. I'd say the chinese vessel was at least 20 times larger and longer and had these numerous and huge sails, the boat had some 5-6 different levels and was made purely from wood, it was apparently "mind boggling" from an engineering standpoint considering the technology of the time. Wish I only had that image.

Originally posted by Dhoodimeer: I quote "The clans did not wait to be conquered. They took the easy way out and sold their rights, most often for less than a hundred dollars. The treaties were remarkable for their three-point simplicity. Point 1: All rights are yours. Point 2: I get 70 or 100 dollars. Point 3: You have the last word in all disputes." These words says lot about many Somalis!! bye Dhoodi Meer ^A lil satire on the part of the author, but makes a point. Somalis were petty and small-minded people in those times and very little has changed since.

Indi lost?!...why am I not suprised, the Mannings both a them seem to fold under serious pressure. Where is Jim Hardbaugh when you need him the former QB of the colts a.k.a captain Comeback as he was known for putting on them cinderella runs. Thats crazy though, its gonna be an interesting superbowl not predicted by many. Originally posted by Caano Geel: maaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn whats wrong with you people. american football (or handball as its known to the rest of the world), is just plain gay. big guys in even bigger outfits jumping each other than, then taking a break every 12.2349 seconds having moved forward 2.34268696 yards to the 9th decimal place as sponsered by coca cola and Ms. Jackson's soon to be furnished new breast! lol...there outfits are not big man, those are shoulder pads. As for being gay?!..lol american football is the roughest sport there is, some might bring up rugby but football is rougher since the field is much smaller and on every play you got 300 pounders goin head to head. Ey you wanna know whats gay? those italian soccer players who be layin on the field in calacal because the opposing player broke his nail or somethin now thats gay. They get carried out in stretchers when you know they're fakin it. I'd like to see Del Piero or Luigi Pizzaria play hockey or Football for even 5 minutes.

Originally posted by Mumia Abu-Jamal: "If (Prime Minister) Paul Martin and the Liberals are not able to disrupt this pattern in the next few days, the only remaining question will be whether it is a Conservative minority or a Conservative majority on election night." ^That be disastrous if somehow the conservatives could pull out a majority government.

^good read

YES SOL b-ball family y'all neva take a rest huh beautiful to see happy new yr to all of you. Did anybody see the heat pistons game? I missed it but D-town looks unstopable, on pace to break the record too. ey Layzie Girl, can you say DEEEETROIIIT Baskeeet-baaalll?

Originally posted by liibaan: Actually, what surprises me is how many muslims vote liberal. surely you'll bring up the gay issue here. I wasn't really advocating any single party, just highlithing the conflict of interest between the average somali and the conservative party. Originally posted by Socod_badne: In Canada, we don't really have a Righwing party . We have far left party in the New Democrats. And no Rightwing or Leftwing party will likely get elected in this country. If you wanna win in Canada and in most countries of the West, you gotta fashion yourself as centrist. The general public are disenchanted with extreme politics. ^If you say so, but I don't think what you said specially about being "right wing" is accurate at all. If you pay attention to the evolution of the canadian conservative party from the canadian alliance to the reform party, you will noticed much of the same political views.

Originally posted by Socod_badne: Right now, I'm leaning towards voting for the Liberals. It's feasible I change my mind and vote for the conservative. I don't buy all 'hiden agenda' they supposedly holding from the Liberals. ^A somali who votes conservative...I'll be damned, than again I've heard of somalis who vote republican on this very same forum so that shouldn't be too suprising. Remind me of that jada kiss line "why vote republican if you black huh?"

Originally posted by Kashanre: Somalia does not have an Italian suffix, but a Greco-Roman suffix that is in widespread use. Somalia (land of the Somalis), Ethiopia (land of the burnt skin), etc are just some nations whose name was influenced by western civilization, their Greco-Roman foundation, and the latin language that has influenced all the other European languages including English. [/QB] ^^Qansharee Italian belongs to the family of languages considered "Latin Languages" in europe. some 90 odd percent of Spanish and Italian derives from latin. Other latin languages include Portuguese, French and Romanian. Aside from those 5, other european languages have been heavily influenced by latin but are by no means in that same category. Best believe the word "Somalia" as was adopted from italian, if you don't like it? blame the gaalo

Originally posted by Kashanre: Somalia does not have an Italian suffix, but a Greco-Roman suffix that is in widespread use. Somalia (land of the Somalis), Ethiopia (land of the burnt skin), etc are just some nations whose name was influenced by western civilization, their Greco-Roman foundation, and the latin language that has influenced all the other European languages including English. [/QB] ^^Qansharee Italian belongs to the family of languages considered "Latin Languages" in europe. some 90 odd percent of Spanish and Italian derives from latin. Other latin languages include Portuguese, French and Romanian. Aside from those 5, other european languages have been heavily influenced by latin but are by no means in that same category. Best believe the word "Somalia" as was adopted from italian, if you don't like it? blame the gaalo

Originally posted by Suldaaanka: quote: Why do they call it Somaliland? Both Somaliland (English Suffix) and Somalia (Italian suffix) are from colonial era. ^Probably the most forgotten fact in all the ignorance surrounding the root of "Somaliland", is the root of the word "Somalia". As if the ladder was some sort of proper somali termination and the former a purely colonial invention by comparison. I ain't a linguist by no means, nonetheless many of us can notice a pattern with Latin rooted proper names like Germania, Francia, Polonia, Italia, Britannia etc...and Somalia. Till this day I have ppl coming to me and asking how and why do you people call yourselves "Somaliland" some of them are simply pulling my leg but some others are dead serious in their conviction. Somaliland is a gaalo invention they tell me, why would you want to have a country with a Gaalo name?.....In all scenarios my answer to such questions is >>>>> role with the punches I say...because to these people anything you tell them no matter how honest or sincere, will go out in one ear and out the other. Next week they will ask you the same thing with equal conviction and vigour. Your best bet is to answer something equally as ignorant such as we prefer gaalo over other somalis thats why! (essentially what they wanna hear)...now you just sit back and wait for a tongue lashing ,best believe they ain't gon forget that last comment by next week and you can both pick up your ignorant conversation from where you left off.

Originally posted by Suldaaanka: quote: Why do they call it Somaliland? Both Somaliland (English Suffix) and Somalia (Italian suffix) are from colonial era. ^Probably the most forgotten fact in all the ignorance surrounding the root of "Somaliland", is the root of the word "Somalia". As if the ladder was some sort of proper somali termination and the former a purely colonial invention by comparison. I ain't a linguist by no means, nonetheless many of us can notice a pattern with Latin rooted proper names like Germania, Francia, Polonia, Italia, Britannia etc...and Somalia. Till this day I have ppl coming to me and asking how and why do you people call yourselves "Somaliland" some of them are simply pulling my leg but some others are dead serious in their conviction. Somaliland is a gaalo invention they tell me, why would you want to have a country with a Gaalo name?.....In all scenarios my answer to such questions is >>>>> role with the punches I say...because to these people anything you tell them no matter how honest or sincere, will go out in one ear and out the other. Next week they will ask you the same thing with equal conviction and vigour. Your best bet is to answer something equally as ignorant such as we prefer gaalo over other somalis thats why! (essentially what they wanna hear)...now you just sit back and wait for a tongue lashing ,best believe they ain't gon forget that last comment by next week and you can both pick up your ignorant conversation from where you left off.

Originally posted by LANDER: [qb] Originally posted by ThePoint: Well, I didn't use the term extreme if you will notice above. But in some ways it fits. Morales wants to free up the planting/harvesting of coca - notwithstanding its traditional medicinal uses - that has an adverse effect on countries around the region through increased availability of cocaine. Morales brought down or helped to bring down the previous several presidents - 2 of them in a matter of months. Does anything change drastically for the better in a matter of months? No. Is that the course of action a wise leader would take? I doubt it. Morales also has publicly said that Cuba is an example for him - Notwithstanding the good healthcare - Cuba has little going for it economically. Communism and state ownership of large chunks of the economy are not a recipe for economic development - that has been pretty much established. The comparison with Canada is incorrect. Canada is a socialistic country in terms of trying to equalize income disparity and the associated ills thereof(ie. access to decent healthcare/education etc) Canada does not actively manage its economy and dicker with the ability of people to own productive assets through corporations. In general, I don't like rabble-rousers and extreme populists as leaders. That sort of style is not conducive to rational, well-thought out policies and recommendations that will make a real dent in poverty and despair in the long-term. Well, notwithstanding the coca policy, nothing else to me seems outlandish about what Morales is proposing. He his getting help from a Ph.D latino professor from an ivey league school and he will hopefully negotiated better terms with the TNCs. Judging the wisdom of his future actions serve no purpose at the moment and much of it will depedend on reaction from the TNCs operating in Bolivia and to a larger extent reaction from Washington. Taking his rhetoric about “Cuba being a model†at face value doesn’t necessarily reflect the reality on the ground. It’s interesting the points brought up about Cuba between you and Castro really. The government over there like many others in this world does a lot of things to be admired (Morally) and than some other economic matters that are not to be emulated. That being said, I think Castro is absolutely right about the economic sanctions. We wouldn’t know how Communist policies would or wouldn’t have been successful under Castro if the U.S hadn’t imposed those economic sanctions. When talking about Communism seems to me there are two mistakes often commited. One being to equate communism with the broader definition of “socialism†and the second taking empirical evidence of Communism as absolute proof of the non-viability of the theoretical system itself. A few modern Marxist theorist would argue to the opposite, but that’s another discussion all together. Cuba’s largest trading partner was the U.S if you could call that a “partnership†in the past as it was really a total domination of U.S investment. Take away a small country like Cuba’s overwhelmingly largest trading partner and you have an instantaneous collapse of the Economy. Due to its geographical location too, Cuba didn’t really have much elsewhere to turn hence the reason for its international isolation today. Can you picture the U.S. border being closed to Canada? (Each others largest trading partners) that would bring about strong recessionary forces in the U.S. and all but the collapse of the Canadian economy. Canada does not actively manage its economy and dicker with the ability of people to own productive assets through corporations Are you sure about that? I’ll give you this much, there is a strong trend towards privatisation of what use to be Natural Monopolies such as Ontario or B.C. Hydro. That being said, every country does “actively manage its economy†contrary to what you wrote be it the U.S. federal reserve or the Bank of Canada. Maybe you were simply alluding to capital controls and even there your still mistaken, as I previously stated the Canadian government will control certain sectors of the economy. A prime example is that of Chartered I banks (i.e. Scotia bank, CIBC etc..) no such bank can have more than 25 % foreign ownership or more than 10% ownership by any individual or group of individuals. Any mergers are to ask for government approval and can be turndown if perceived to be against public Interest. For a more blatant example let us reach back to a time of Mild Welfare state system in Canada (According to Dr. D. Williamson), there was still a a competitive market system but there also much government involvment in the general economy. This was the period between 40s-70s in Canada, it was Characterised by increasingly extensive and continuous gov. involvment to fine tune the business cycle and to bring about ecomomic growth and high level of employment as inspired by John Maynard Keynes. These days though we follow closer the ideas of John Kenneth Galbraith in Mixed economy still with stage direction from gov. of resources, prices, investment wages, profits. For example in 73 the government set up the A.I.B(anti-inflation board) which controlled prices and wages for ALL firms in Canada. It proved to be inefficient and was disbanded in 75. Also in 73 there was a Foreign Revenue Agency set up which controlled the take over or merger involving ANY company that was wholly or partially owned by non-canadians. So you see all of these matters were characterized by increased gov. direction of the economy in the goal of National Interest much like the Bolivians are doing(Mind you the two situations differ in matters implied, but the desired outcome is quite similar). Back then there wasn’t too much noise made by these policies by foreigners as compared to Bolivia for several reasons that extend to the political realm. For one Canada is a western nation and doesn’t talk rhetoric about “communismâ€, secondly its a middle economy and could not so easily be ignored by the U.S., thirdly and most importantly Bolivia has not come up with "sophisticated" means to have the people of bolivia benefit from natural gas aside from outright threatened nationalization which would be I guess what you refering to as "extreme socialist values". so anyway this little thread has consumed a little too much time, what I would suggest to you The Point is to compared the merits of sociaslist policies with that of “cowboy capitalism†as practiced in latin America. Ask yourself which is in the greater interest of the people (by this I don’t mean the selective elite)? Why do governments regulate business? According to Williamson there a few reasons you might find compatible with the situation in Bolivia. Intervene: 1-When undesirable Market Structure exist 2-When there is a perceived need to preserve a natural resource(not necessarily a reality only perceived by the public) 3-When there are significant externalities connected with a firms conduct in a Mkt. I.e. pollution 4-**When the Market conduct of firms generate public discontent. Na’mean power to tha BEOPLE 5- When public discontent is to control or dilute large power blocks in the economy

Originally posted by ThePoint: Evo Morales is a grandstander with, I think, little substance behind his sweeping rhetoric. And Bolivia is not as rich as Venezuela so he needs foriegn investors to stay. But if his people elected him in a free and fair election, Washington should butt out. I wish Cuba/Venezuela/Bolivia could learn something from China - Transition your economies slowly and steadily - Communism and extreme Socialism is a deadend There is nothing "extreme" about the policies suggested by Morales, having a mixed economy with government regulating some aspects is perfectly legitimate and widely accepted in IR. If one would compare the government regulations and Crown Corporations in canada to those found currently in bolivia, it be assued canada is an extremely socialist country by comparison. What partly makes China a succesful economic story is its control of capital flow, hopefully morales will do something along those lines. Historically "cowboy capitalism" has prooved desastrous in latin america due to the very fact that Capital flows and foreign direct investments came in and out too easily out of countries like Argentina. Any foreign investor panic could result in launching the country in a serious recession and an uncontrolable spiral that could ensue in the region. Part of the reason I think the region is fed up with American interventionism in their economic/national matters. Anybody seen the documentary titled OUR BRAND IS CRISIS it aired on the CBC a while back, it told the story of how U.S. and Israeli strategist (James Carville amongst them) got the ex-president GONI of bolivia re-elected in a very close race. How the utilized smear campaigns against the opponents and used tremendous resources to basicly look after the interest of the united states in the region. It also talks about how inneficient of a president he was with his neo-liberal policies where he and his immediate entourage got very rich and the unemployment level rose despite the promises of thousands of new jobs from the gas industry. Interesting doc to say the least, because the makers of the doc do not directly comment themselve, all of the opinions and messages come straight from either the Bolivian government members of the time or their employees from the US consulting firm. I won't ruin it for those whom haven't seen it yet, but needless to say things end badly for 'GONI' and his 20 something % (of popular vote)victory. More on Bolivia: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article333457.ece

very true Tukaale, I'm glad most other develloped countries are still making an effort though, still whitout the co-operation of the worlds largest poluter. In contrast check out this initiative by Castro and Chavez. Castro's 'miracle' cures the poor of blindness