An important time line, I think some of the opinion is a lil over-zealous. Egal (Ilaheey ha u naxaristee) had his strenghts and weaknesses like any of us. At that early stage, he may have side stepped some democratic processes that he carried into the later stages of his career, nevertheless June 26th 1960 was a time of great hope. His actions reflected the hopes an aspirations of the Greater Somali Nation. A great number of the people of Somaliland wanted to form a united country with the rest of the somalis and Egal's actions reflected the will of those people. In hindsight, its very easy to criticize people, but I have to wonder if any of us would have done differently than Egal given the atmosphere that prevailed at the time. Personally, had I been a young man in 1960 I probably would have been amongst the mob cheering as the Blue flag was hoisted over Hargeisa. People felt the only refuge they had from colonial and imperial influence was to stick with their Somali kin and seek strength in unity.

Originally posted by Castro: ^^^^ The irony here is agree with the Generale but for different reasons, of course. Xassan Aadan is wrong in saying Boosaaso is under occupation while Hargeysa isn't. They both are. Yet, as a legendary singer and a Somali, he's entitled to spew his opinion, however wrong. Generale, you keep telling us the TFG is good and Somalia is not under occupation. We know the TFG is horrible and the country is occupied. Should we tell you to stick to talking about poetry? You too are entitled to your opinions, however outlandish they may be. Viva Boosaaso and Hargeysa. They both will be liberated soon. ?^ Castro is this a serious post

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Horn, so you will wait until 'there is not a single gunfire anywhere in Somalia' maaha? That's when you are willing for somalis to have a dailogue? Then you talk about naiifatee!!!!

Originally posted by Peace Action: Here is more complete picture of the story... Su’aal taas hore la mida ayaa Hassan Aadan Samatar laga soo weydiiyay magaalada Gaalkacyo. Hassan Aadan Samatar ayaa su’aashaas dambe kaga jawaabay inuusan puntland cag soo dhigi doonin inta Amxaaradu haysato. Taas oo layaab ku noqotay dadkii dhagaysanayay. Sida dad badan ogyihiin ciidamo iyo saraakiil itoobiyaan ah oo badan ayaa ku sugan dekada Berbera oo ay dowlada itoobiya wax ka soo degsato. lol ^ So if your a sell out, your going to try and drag every body else with you? If there is 'ciidamo itoobiyaan ah oo badan...' oo Berbera joga, than it should not be hard to snap a picture or two is all I'm saying. More lies from Somaliland's haters, it shouldn't come as a surprise. You've got some members of this forum whom would actually swear that Ethiopia imports all its weaponry and merchandise through Berbera, mind you without a single shred of evidence to support the weapons claim (never mind the fact that the port of Djibouti is STILL the #1 destination for Ethiopian goods). Folks willing to fabricate any stories to give Somaliland a bad name, now that is rather pathetic .

They shouldn't invite him to Hargeisa unless he comes of his own accord. He's been disrespectful in my eyes to the Somaliland community of Toronto. He was payed in the past to sing during the May 18th events and had the audacity to lay down 'terms' were by he wouldn't be singing about 'Hargeisa' or anything to do with our homeland. He hasn't been invited back for a couple years now, from what I've been told his song writers in the early days were northerners as well so I don't really understand were this fool gets off being disrespectful. I say Invite Juba and give him the red carpet treatment, there are no Casino's in Hargeisa anyway so I think Xassan would be quite bored.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: lol@Sayid seated on top of Xiinfaniin! You have a point there! One can reasonably question whether Sayid's movement had anything to do with the subsequent formation of SYL! It’s my opinion however that the youth sought to pursue the vision of Somali weyne! And no sane and impartial person can argue against Sayid’s role in shaping that notion! But we can differ on that. What about the SNL or USP? Why are they almost always a side note in the literature written during the Siad Barre era? Was there role just as important or unimportant as the SYL ? (yes,I am aware that these parties converged) It is my view the independence of the Somali territories in 1960 had more to do with international affairs than the personal struggles of Somalis, not to diminish the work of the SYL-SNL or the like. We are often feed all kinds of illogical BS in Somali history to gives us a false sense of pride. For example, had WW2 not taken place would Somalis have obtained their indepedence in 1960? Had the Fascist Italians prevailed in the war, would there have been an SYL? Back to the discussion on Ina Abdullah Xassan, are we to attribute any desire for a 'Somaliweyn' by any party or group in the past present and future back to him ? Would that make me an impartial person if I did so?

Originally posted by General Duke: For anyone speacially those who were raised int he west and want to read up on the Sayid. The Book Divine Madness by Abdi Shiekh Abdi is a must read. Read it^ it was hogwash, the book by Jardine was a more coherent read. The british for their part though, tend to romanticize characters like the Sayid, in that 'Noble Savage' fashion. More suited for the ears of westerners seeking great tails of adventure.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Really! That you think so is a sign of ignorance yaa Landka! Sayidku was a great leader. He single handedly led a movement of dervishes in resistance to the British Empires colonial designs. There is a western and Arabic literature out there available to you if you want to read it. ^That you make assumptions about my supposed 'ignorance' is presumptive on your part as usual. Be that as it may, stating that Ina Abdulle Xassan had leadership qualities and led a movement is just stating the obvious, your not addressing the historical fallacy in question here. That is linking June 26th 1960 (which seems to have come back into relevance amongst our southern Brethren)to Ina Abdulle Hassan's dervishes nearly four decades prior. Let me be bold enough to state what should be a matter of historical fact, June 26th 1960 did not take place because of the Sayid. Maybe you will write us a poem on this thread making reference to mythical visions of the Sayid seated on top Xiinfaniin that sent the British packing on that historical day in 1960, I'm not sure how your going to approach this one but sophistry can be entertaining I suppose.

I thought it was hilarious when I first read the story too, another article said the the engineers of the plant were not happy because they say it is a state of the art facility that is responsible for a lot of important functional aspects of the city and therefore is too good (in so many words) to carry the name of Bush.

Turning the self-proclaimed Sayid into some type of National Hero is the work of the former 'revolutionary' dictatorship, this thread and others like it, that attempt to correlate historical events which have virtually no positive correlation shows just how well entrenched the old methods have become.

Originally posted by Xaaji_xundjuf: ma xornima lugu hellay dagaal huu qaadayee reeraha dariiska aah Ama beeelaha SOmaliland wadda dagga uun buu kala diilay I'm curious what the people who hold him in very high esteem have to say about the above statement.

First the Czech Republic now Croatia, I cannot believe this Turkish team, I witnessed two of the most unlikely come backs ever, they are going crazy on Bloor St in Tdot as I write this. Congrats to the Turks.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: quote:Originally posted by LANDER: ...considering the situation in Somalia, it doesn’t seem there will be a credible government to represent Somalia anytime soon let alone and end to the bloodshed. ..that said I think the Somalis are beyond saving at this point. By Somalis, you mean non -Somalilanders! And that kind of sentiment is why I always remind fellow SOLers, hardcore secessionist like Lander certainly is has this peculiar wish that Somalia remain stateless so their little tuulo gets the recognition they think she deserves. . Not quite, I was referring to the Somali Nation (yes, that does include Somalilanders). You should warn your fellow SOLers about your desire to have the people of Somalia subjugated to the government of Mbegathi and its cowardly wanna-be dictator, who will surely go down as the most treacherous Somali of all-time. I wear my colours on my sleeves, unlike some I don’t have to hide my views behind pretentious well-wishing and ‘peaceniking’ for I know there can never be peace without freedom. Now check back with me after the soccer game.

^ You did mention that bit about the referendum. However, the typical response you would receive from a Somalilander would be that a referendum has already been conducted in which the results overwhelmingly supported indedepndence. So to that I’m assuming your response would be that the pro-unity side did not have an adequate chance to make its case, or perhaps that some remote parts of the eastern provinces did not have the opportunity to participate In the referendum. Fair enough, but at the end of the day all this is rather far fetched considering the realities on the ground today. Somaliland could and probably will still state that its independence is a fait-accompli in real terms and have 17 yrs of progress to support that. It is also far fetched considering the situation in Somalia, it doesn’t seem there will be a credible government to represent Somalia anytime soon let alone and end to the bloodshed. An important point would also be that you asked for war crimes since 1991 to be investigated, well that would be a sure way to alienate somalilanders as often our southern somali folk forget the war really escalated in 1988 (in the north) and that year proved to be the most catastrophic for most of the population of Somaliland. I know you mean well and your intentions are in the right place, I don’t doubt your ability to see the big picture, that said I think the Somalis are beyond saving at this point.

I have no problem with a Xalimo that makes more than 300K a yr, where can I find her?

Originally posted by Northerner: Those two clauses in the agreement seem to be the focus again. I think they may have sold themselves short but if so, and things do not change in 120 days time, that failure for a withdrawal to materialise will rest with the UN thus making the resistance 100% legitimate beyond doubt to all parties. Therefore, the UN also has alot riding on this as they do not want to lose face. The Ethiopian leadership at the signing of this agreement, almost certainly knew the '120 days schedule' was not plausible. It is also my opinion that the Ethiopian troops will certainly have a strong presence in Somalia even if some small token amount of UN troops are dispatched in term, although I'm sure Meles Zenawi will try to cast a veil over the eyes of the world insisting Ethiopia has no presence in Somalia (Much like during the invasion period).

Originally posted by Kashafa: ^^ We agree then. I'm not referring to the good shacab of Waqooyi. I know that the shacab there, just like the shacab in Djobuti, Puntland, Kismayo, or Mogadisho, are weak and have no voice. And I know that they are against any pimpin' of Somali soil. Any human being would. It's a universal constant oo uu baahnayn explanation. What I am blasting tho for being silent, is the traditional power structure, the Garaads, the Sultans, the Ugaas's, as well as the other figures of leadership: the Newspapers, the Business community, the Parliment, the MPs, and the Opposition parties, both in Djbouti and Somaliland. That said, I'm a realist. I'm not expecting everybody to speak out, but you know something is deeply wrong when nobody dares contradict the status quo, even when it involves something as sacrosanct as national territory. The cancer of moral cowardice and of appeasement has eaten away at almost every single individual in the Somali power structure. And that is one of the root causes of our disintegration and downfall, as a country, and as a people. You seem to be painting with broad strokes here, I can understand this is a particularly frustrating time in the history of somalis for those of us whom have ever envisioned somalis livng in peace and relative unity (especially when comfronted by slaughter and humiliation at th hands of foreigners), however we must look to each scenario on its own and see the state of somali nationhood for what it is today, as you said we need to be realists. Before I get into state of the Somali Nation I will briefly respond to what you mentioned in reference to Somaliland. The Guurti, after playing a large part in saving Somaliland from the internal squables and disunity that threatened to plunge us into war more than a decade ago, has since become a rubber stamping house for the current president. So not much is to be expected from them, in terms of keeping the policies of the president honest. That said, 2009 will be a crucial year in Somaliland and will test just how far we've come in terms of a functional society and government. So until these elections take place, the expections we have of this government is not to jeopardize the sovereignty of our country. I'll state again, we still don't know if there is any real interest on the part of the U.S. to set a base in Berbera, all we know si Riiyaale said he would 'welcome' such a move. As the conflict rages on today between the resistance and the occupiers, I feel there is only one guarantee; That people will not forget what is happening today in the streets of Mogadishu anytime soon and that the somali nation (since the Ethiopian invasion) has been dealt such a severe blow, that it may take another several decades before it recovers. I watched on T.V. as Ethiopian tanks rolled into Mogadishu with the Ethiopian flag plain in sight in disbelief as I'm sure many others had. Xamar, the capital of a once united Somali Nation has now fallen and the worst part of it all, this is being advocated by other 'Somalis'. Even today, you will find these hypocrits with their crocodile tears on this forum and elsewhere waving the Somali flag and at the same time suggesting the people of Somalia should bend to their tribal leader simply because he is the choosen pet of the occupation. Others will tell you that for the sake of 'peace' a negotiated settlement should be worked out with these cowards, one that would legitimize the occupation (or its supposed end) as well as its proxies. I wish this were the actions of a few misguided tribe worshiping morons, but it seems to affect quite a significant portion of the Somali population. Matters of peace and politics have fallen back on almost a strictly tribal basis, where as shortly before the invasion, alot of progress was made in terms alleviating and overcoming triabalism. Nowadays you see anybody that has any sort of tribal connection to the proxies of occupation, reffer to the resistance as 'terrorist' or otherwise speak on how to legitimize the illegitimate 'government'. This is the state of the Somali Nation today, where our people will sell each other out to death and carnage for a very low price. I don't see an end to this anytime soon.

Originally posted by Kashafa: Source quote: Rafay Siddiqui, a Marine veteran of Iraq, says that in the military, “you’re not a man until you’ve taken advantage of a woman.” Impressionable 18 and 19-year-old young men come into the service, see “everyone doing it, so they themselves have to do it too because they want to fit in.” He testifies about his experiences not in Iraq but in Djibouti, Africa on an earlier deployment. Young girls, trying to escape poverty, came to Djibouti and ended up working as prostitutes for Marines and for French legionnaires who were also stationed there. All due respect to any Djiboutians up in here, but um, your country is a giant brothel for American and French johns. Both figuratively and literally. You know, in case you weren't aware. NSS Chief Riyaale wants to duplicate the above by offering Berbera, as a nubile virgin, for the Americans to ravish. And the patriotic Somalilanders clap and applaud his decision, cuz you know, you gotta stick with the President to get to the promised land of Holy Recognition. Not one word of protest. Not a single criticism. Not online. Not by the 'independent' baarlamaan. Silence. "But no, no, no, no. Easy now, youngin'. It's called statesmanship. That's how world politicking works, B. You gosta give some, to get some, naah mean. We offer up Berbera on a silver platter, throw in a couple of expendable hot lil things, and boom-shaka-laka, we get international recognition. Big pimpin', yo, big pimpin'" The depths of dhulinimo people stoop to for the sake of their jahal. Lord have mercy. I'm not sure what your on about, but myself and others on this forum have expressed on this very site our opposition to any foreign troops in Somaliland. Secondly, This talk of Berbera being a possible American base is speculative, for many reasons that have already been discussed including the fact that Riiyalee may not make it to the end of 2009, so hold your horses before labeling and making all types of assumptions. Thirdly, Djibouti could probably do without all the foreign troops however, like much of Africa the people of Djibouti don't have much say to that effect and their country doesn't exactly have a democratic process. Last 'election' had one name on the ballot in true Saddam Hussein fashion, that name being Ismael Omar Guelleh and as you can imagine he won by a landslide.

Gada-who?

"Mogadishu (Capital of Sudan)"...silly, but it doesn't take away from the article, well put together. These last few months before the US admin goes down in history will be interesting to watch as these war criminals try to make up for 8 yrs of failure. Condy is running around making bold statements that have little to no long term effect considering the fact that everybody knows they're on their way out.

Originally posted by Juje: quote:Originally posted by LANDER: George always tirelessly working for the sake of the underdogs and the oppressed. Does he? I bet that is what he was exactly doing when he was on Big Brother Channel 4. I fail to see how the Somali issue will make to the surface if they are advocated by the likes of him. Sorry, I'm not privy to the 'Big Brother' stuff, See in North America we spend our TV time watchin The NBA Finals, Big brother is a flop show out here . What I do know of this man is speeches in parliament and a few interviews on you tube, from what I have observed he often speaks of injustice that is not well covered in the mainstream media. At this point, it matters that the message be spread about the Occupation and its abuses in Somalia regardless, as Geeljiree already pointed out.

George always tirelessly working for the sake of the underdogs and the oppressed.

Bro Red Sea, Thanks for the Video that made my day. These kids are beautiful man, who runs this orphanage? do you know? maybe we can help them.

Except one side has an army of 11 000 and the other 200 000+, not exactly a fair fight. Afwerki is dumber than I thought, knowing full well the French and American armies have bases in Djibouti and knowing full well the Americans are not particularly fond of Eritrea, why start a fight? This also plays into his so-called enemy and former ally Zenawi's hands.

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=1621&updater x=2008-06-09+11%3A36%3A42 http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=1638&updater x=2008-06-09+08%3A52%3A02 Your Obama, All rhetoric?..we'll see.