Qoloda soo duushay, reerka guud ee kamid tahay cid ishortaag ku samayso miyaa la waayey oo tiraahdo war joojiya falkaa wa fal gurracane?

Paragon- Insecurity will always be risk factor in Somalia for some time to come, but you cannot come here and tell us visiting your birthplace and the source of your longing is not worth the risk? Certainly insecurity should not prevent any Somali from his country especially you. Imagine if we had all let the jitters ( ) from that overtake our nerves, who would have invested and kept the country alive in the last decade?

Walle meesha waa laysku helay. Nin la yiraahdo Sophist yaa duulaan soo qaday har cad laysku wada jeedo.

Relax boys, we know what Puntland is. It's merely small branch of the Tigray found government safe guarded in Xamar. Red Sea, clearly it is Somaliland that did much more then Puntland to try to woo Ethiopian support. I remember a time when the most favorite saying of your leaders was "a child born in Addis Ababa is closer to I then one born in Mogadishu". You yourself have history in this forum praising Ethiopia's support of the SNM. Get off the hypocritical chair adeer, you will not be allowed to ride the crest of the current popular anti-Ethiopia and TFG wave to take jabs at folks you perceive to be your traditional enemy.

Emporer, isbaraha Garoowe daadsan kuuma muuqdaane maxaa ku tusay kuwa Kismaayo yaal?

Dekedda Kismaayo oo dib u howl-gashay ka dib markii laga qaaday maleeshiyadii qabsatay Click here to find this article in English Mogadishu 31, May.07 ( Sh.M.Network) Odayaasha iyo waxgaradka beesha **** ayaa ku guuleystay in ay dib u furaan dekedda magaalada Kismaayo oo kooxo dableey ah u xirneyd. Dib u howl-galista dekedda magaalada Kismaayo ayaa ka dambeysay ka dib markii odayaasha dhaqanka ay ku guuleysteen in ay ku qanciyaan maleeshiyooyinka qabsaday dekedda in ay dib ugu laabtaan xeryihii ay ka soo baxeen. Warar ku dhow dhow odayaasha ayaa waxa ay sheegayaan in maleeshiyooyinka loo sameeyay balanqaadyo lacageed. Saraakiisha hogaamineysay dekedda magaalada Kismaayo ayaa waxa ay sheegeen in ay ishortaageen howlaha shaqo ee dekedda magaalada Kismaayo ka dib markii ay waayeen musuhaaraadkooda muddo bilooyin ah. Ma ahan markii ugu horreysay oo howlaha shaqo ee dekedda magaalada Kismaayo ay ishortaagaan maleeshiyooyin sheeganaya lacago mushaaraad ah oo ka maqan. Click here to find this article in English Max'ed Axmed Shabelle Media Network Somalia

The elders of the militias in control of Kismaayo have made it a noble habit of giving some of the port money to the displaced militias in Buulogaduud as form of appeasement and garnaqsi. Yaan laka xumaan bay islaahaayeen. However, they have done that to the marginalization of their own men. This is a way to express their frustrations and according to parliamentarian Cabdirashiid Xiddig (Afmadow/Dhoobley constituency), who is the TFG's envoy to the city, they have every right to do so. Maleeshiyooyin Ka Caraysan Mushaar La'aan Oo La Wareegay Dekadda Kismaayo May 30,2007 by Kismaayo-GEDO-NN Ciidamo gadoodsan oo Mushaar doon ah ayaa gudaha u galay dekadda caalimaga ah ee magaalada Kismaayo halkaas oo ay joojiyeen dhaqdhaqaagii ganacsiga ee dekadda. ciidmadaan oo ku hubaysan gaadiidka dagaalka ayaa hawada u ridaya xabadaha ka dhaca qoryaha Lidka dayuuradaha. Waxaana ay diiden in dadku ay galaan ama ka baxaan dekadda oo xilliyadaan oo uu soo dhaw yahay Bad xiranka uu mashquulkeedu badan yahay. Maareeyaha Dekada Kismaayo Deeq Caabi Xasan ayaa sheegay in ciidamadaan aysan waxaba u dhimin qasnadaha Dekada balse ay la wareegeen guud ahaan dekada ayna cayriyeeen Ilaalada gaarka ah ee dekadda. Caabi waxaa uu qiray in Ciidamadaana ay xaq u leeyihiin mushaarkooda, balse waxaa uu dhaleeceeyay tallaabooyinka soo noqnoqda ay ku qabsadaan dekadda oo haysa adeega qaranka sida uu warka u dhigay. Xildhibaan C/rashiid Maxamed Xidig oo goor dhaw shir jaraaid ku qabtay Hotelka Maridian ayaa shaaca ka qaaday in ciidamadaan ay gar u leeyihiin xirashada dekadda , waxaana uu sheegay in shaqsiyaad gaar ah ay lunsadeen maaliyada ka soo xaroota dekadda ayna yartahay inta loo diro dhinaca wasaarada Maaliyada. “ waxaan aaminsanahay in lacag lunsashada ka socota dekada iyo iyagoo waayay mushaarkoodii ay xaq uga dhigayso Ciidamada in ay xiraan dekadda” ayuu yiri xildhibaanka oo ka soo jeeda Degmada Badhaadhe una jooga Kismaayo xalinta khilaafaadka ka aloosan. Aqoonyahan iyo odayaal ayaa waxaa ay ku hawlan yihiin ka soo saarida dekadda maleeshiyaadkaan oo ka wada tirsan guutooyinka koowaad iyo seddexaad ee xooga dalka ee ku kala tagay colaad salka ku haysa qabyaalad. GEDO-NN-Kismaayo News Desk

His conclusion was rather short, maybe too short. He did well setting the stage and giving evidence for his contention but he failed to answer himself and explain, in more detail, just how to "declanize" Somali society. Without that, I am not sure if anything else of substance was brought that I can honestly say was new and informative.

Castro, you have become a loophole lawyer my friend. I think I have argued my position well and it is tiring arguing more then I have already done so. You simply cannot make a person see that which they do not want to, so I think it is in our mutual interest if we agree to disagree. Although, I do not see what we have disagreed about. We both want the Ethiopians to leave, but you want them prematurely now and without having grown from the situation and I want them after we have used them to unite us. I know Somalia. I know its smells, sights, sounds, and its politics. I know what is in store if left to our own devices and I pray that it never occurs, at least in our present condition. Nabad galyo

Janagale, forgive me if I do not share some of your sentiments. I have never been a supporter of foreign intervention, in fact have always been violently opposed to them, but because they are here today I cannot help but make the most out of the sad situation. There is an opportunity in everything, the opportunity that lies in the unfortunate and pitiful affairs of Somalia today is this; that this is the first time since the beginning of the civil war that we are all equal and our guns will not necessarily decide the future of the nation. All I ask is "why not take advantage of this opportunity to do some house cleaning and then turn around, united as can be, and kick Xabashi butt (pardon the language) as is our heritage?"

d/p

Castro, did you want to respond or did you feel as if you had to respond? Your inconsistent argument and the apparent lack of understanding of my own position (the very position you are challenging!) shows me you were poorly prepared to address me. For one, HornAfrique neither supports nor argued for Ethiopian occupation of Somalia, per se. The apparent reality and the state of our affairs today forces me to call for cooling heads and embarking on honest discourse first and foremost. That is a respectable position by all accounts and the one I am sure is most able to successfully maneuver us out of the ditch we have placed ourselves in. It is my wish that we take advantage of the situation we have been presented with, the first instance since the inception of our infamous civil war that we can all actually come to the bargaining table as equals and not any more powerful then the other due to the size of the barrel of our gun. I neither support Ethiopian invasion to keep the current administration in power nor a premature, and somewhat politically inexperienced, radical response to the situation. If you then accuse my position of being tantamount to being a supporter of Ethiopian occupation, then so be it. Note, however, that I believe that is but a very feeble attempt designed to take the spotlight out of one's lack of confidence in their own radical, and ineffective, position, provided it is not a mere front. Only in the third and fourth paragraphs did you discuss our point of contention, so you will respectfully understand if I take those paragraphs up to respond to. You argued that Ethiopia has made it a habit of continously trespassing on our affairs and helping stoke the civil war by way of arming various factions, and I agree. However, you then believe that if Ethiopia withdraws that all will be sound in Somalia and that Somali fratricide will not occur again in conjunction with heavy Ethiopian interference by way of arming those deemed to be supportive of them, out of scrutiny and with far more capabilities as a result of it. Do you see where you fell off and how my position of "take advantage of the occupation to talk as equals, then campaign for Ethiopian withdrawal in unbroken unity" is legitimized? Adeer Somalis have killed Somalis. Ethiopia might have given us weapons and watched us kill each other, but all she did was take advantage of most strategic situation presented to them. I can hardly blame them for that, but I can, however, blame Somalis for using those weapons to kill each other. Clearly Ethiopia did not take us by our hands and help us fire the trigger and if not them, someone had to do it! The question, then, that begs to be inquired is, why did that happen?. I take it that simple question answers just about everything you presented as your argument, so let me repeat mines, however redundant. Because of the Ethiopian occupation, not only is international scrutiny preventing Ethiopia from arming us inorder to carry out clan warfare but it also gives us, Somalis, an opportunity to reflect and reevaluate our present circumstances and try to find lasting solutions to the divisive problems that have plagued us and will continue to be a hindrance in our development as a nation-state. It forces us to talk, as is the objective of the upcoming reconciliation conference, although I personally have not an ounce of confidence in that particular conference simply because it is being ran by the Ethiopians. The talks I hint at and the dialogue I argue in favor of must come from Somalis and be managed by Somalis, such is happening between you and I. We as Somalis must first reconcile as a people, address our long-standing internal problems, and only then will we be able to permanently grasp our destiny by its hands, campaign for Ethiopian withdrawal, and say "NO THANK YOU" when the departed Ethiopians surely entertain the idea of arming our people against each other again and playing the game they have played throughout the existence of our civil war. Otherwise, Ethiopia will never completely abandon our affairs, and with their leaving of our country without that aforementioned dialogue ensuing, I am doubly sure we will not escape regressing back into the civil war that we have been unfortunately accustomed to for the past 16 years. We will surely start eyeing each other as the hungry hyenas we have been throughout our civil war and Ethiopia will not hesitate in once again taking advantage of the situation by giving us the means to finish each other off. I regret this is not apparent to you.

Originally posted by Castro: quote:Originally posted by N/AA: Now you tell me what would happen. I don't have a crystal ball but I will try to show you later how Somalis will be no worse off when the Ethiopians leave. In fact, I will argue they will be better off. I thought as much.

Ayoub- Tsk tsk, I hardly gave an opinion about the ONLF or what is going on. Everything I contributed here has to do explicitly with your question and the response of Ladiif. Nothing more then that. Do pay attention to what is at hand next time.

Castro- If you would so please as allow me to ask, what is, then, your belief Somalia will be with Ethiopian withdrawal. You have failed to listen to me and have looked for loopholes where there are non so let me be so bold as to ask you of what the most likely outcome will be. I say the first outcomes of Ethiopian withdrawal would be immediate resuscitation of the infamous Mogadishu green line, clashes between two major groups behind those lines, as well as between Puntland and their neighbors to the south. Your Somaliland, led by hotheads, might even take advantage of that situation and hit Puntland from the west. This might bring other groups into the equation and the Somali Republic will be up in fires unseen since early 90's. Simplistic? You bet. Likelihood? The most possible scenario. Now you tell me what would happen.

Paragon, ina adeerow bal wad. Any more pix? I am scheduled to go there soon enough inshallah.

Originally posted by AYOUB: For the record, I condemn the threats, arrests, ill-treatment of the ONLF boys. No if or buts. So then you admit ONLF boys are arrested and ill-treated by the Somaliland administration? According to Ladif, the truck burnings are response to those crimes so then I guess you also have indirectly brought the answer to your own question of "why the truck burnings"?

Originally posted by Castro: quote:Originally posted by N/AA: It is my belief that the only thing keeping the ocean waves calm are the presence of armed, somewhat impartial, foreign troops . Because of their presence, there are not any possibilities of clan wars ensuing and because of an inability of one group to dictate the affairs of others through the barrel of the group, dialogue and communication are paramount as forms of problem solving. It is my sincere hope Somalis take advantage of the situation presented to them to reconcile and explore the reasons that led to this point and which has kept their nation lawless and anarchic for more then a decade. Only then, I believe , we should unite towards our historical common enemy and demand, and even fight, to have total control over our destiny again. Good try saaxib but this falls woefully short of providing any convincing argument of what terrible disasters would befall Somalis if Ethiopian troops were to withdraw tomorrow. Moreover, your hopes and beliefs are well and good but evidence they make not. Finally, there are no impartial foreign troops in Somalia. Both the occupying force and the so called peace keepers have a clear mandate to protect the puppet regime. Impartiality, therefore, may be stated but is simply a ruse and a veteran of politics like you ought to be the last person to fall for such elementary propaganda. The risk of fratricide you mentioned is real but, as you said, "because of an inability of one group to dictate the affairs of others through the barrel", it is highly unlikely any terrible disasters such as the killing of thousands or the displacement of hundreds of thousands would follow an Ethiopian withdrawal. In other words, the calamity you predict upon Ethiopian withdrawal is simply fallacious. You have taken the last quote of mines completely out of context and in fact has nothing to do with the conclusion you reached using it. However, you need not bother, I understand now where you are coming from. This reminds me of the time the Rwandan genocide was occurring and the U.N security council was debating the political correctness of using the term "genocide" and what it would imply in terms of even immediate and large-scale intervention. Castro, get off the high horse adeer. No one is analyzing scholarly work here and none of us can completely convince you of something that has not happened yet, but those of us who are aware know and understand the fate of Somalia left to its own self-destructive devices. 16 years of modern civil war and centuries old legacy of blood fueds are a witness and example of what is to come if left to our own devices.

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown: [QB] I am almost certain I believe inaa kaa badiyo, I spent my childhood life some less than a KM away from B.Xaawo, I was there as recently as last summer War adigaaba iga roon, anigu reer Balanbalaan ahay geelayaduna meeshaa iyo galaadi ayay gaaraan lakin Beled-Xaawo allahu kariim maanta waa xuduntayda. Mustaqbalka dhaw dabaqyaan rabaa inaan ka dhisto anigu iyo reerkeygaba. Inshallah I am scheduled to got there (among other places) pretty soon in the near future, magaalada jawigeeda guud waa sidee? Meesha waa lay dhoobanayahy balse kama daalo inaan warka hubsado. p.s. Ina abti markaad ila ahayd ileen meel baad iga arkootay.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: quote:Oh posh sxb. Jimcaale as always is infatuated with my cyber character but I would hope you debate like a man and quit with the character assassinations. I do not know about Ceel or Caabudwaaq but I can honestly say Beled-Xaawo owes its peace and security indirectly to the Xabashi. It is fear of the Xabash base across the borderline that keeps the yey who want to cause insecurity apart from each other. I do realize we owes to Amxaaro for the peace and stability of [insert city name here] and the liberation of Kismaayo from the ruthless hands of our enemy who violated our families for protesting in public. My bad Horn if you get offended. It's getting rather old Jimca.

Farax, malaha Beled-Xaawo adigaa iga badiyo ina abti so do explain. I said indirectly. It is fear of the Xabashi that keeps some of the hoodlums calm, but certainly not due only to the Xabash. I believe Barkuus is a god-send to the city. The man has transformed the area and when he said security of the general population as well as businesspeople would be of the utmost importance during his coming in as mayor he was not lying. Part of what he does is allocate some of the tax money to the unemployed young people or those who do not have relatives abroad in a way becoming a welfare mayor. It is also because of him the Xabash leave the Islamic Courts of Beled-Xaawo in peace and let them do their part in carrying out appropriate and swift justice that is an example for all others.

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown: quote:Originally posted by Jimcaale: ^Waryaara leave good Horn alone. He's just praising the good peacekeeping forces of the Ethiopians in Moqdisho, not Ceel or Caabud Waaq. ^^ Geeljire,Well said brother...There is permanent cuqdad now,one that will never be healed. Its one thing to fight one another,its totally another thing to use your enemy to kill & displace your fellow brothers(sisters)! Oh posh sxb. Jimcaale as always is infatuated with my cyber character but I would hope you debate like a man and quit with the character assassinations. I do not know about Ceel or Caabudwaaq but I can honestly say Beled-Xaawo owes its peace and security indirectly to the Xabashi. It is fear of the Xabash base across the borderline that keeps the yey who want to cause insecurity apart from each other.

Originally posted by Castro: quote:Originally posted by N/AA: If you are looking for evidence of what would be the most likely outcome on the eve of immediate Ethiopian withdrawal, then you should not be in the clan politics as a contributor but as an observer sxb. I do not say that to be disrespectful good Castro, but in genuine honesty. Why dodge the question saaxib and turn personal. Give it a try. We might actually make this a decent discussion. Well for one I have no reason to believe the Islamic Courts will make some sort of a revival. Not only is the world, particularly Uncle Sam, scrutinizing the local affairs of Somalia much more detailedly but even more important is the loss of confidence the majority of Somalis have for any other group entertaining themselves as representatives of Islam in Somalia. The recent gaffes of the Islamic Courts union, particularly of the failure to deal with warlord Indhacade and the Lower Shabelle case fairly, and the perceived empowering of certain groups have left a sour taste in the mouths of majority of Somalis. Those gaffes have also set a precedence of what blindly following any group that claims to uphold Islamic principles under clan shirt so early in the game would lead to. Immense support early in the game, as they had gotten last time, is something the ICU would need to close off the power vacuum that would form if the Ethiopians leave and that is something I am completely sure would not happen this time around all due to the ICU's recent legacy. This brings clan based armed factions into the equation. There is not a shred of a doubt that Somalia will revert back to its pre-ICU form of being a shadow of a state composed of fiefdoms controlled by warlords with the support of their clan. Essentially the law of the jungle that had existed just prior to the ICU's rise. But instead of the calmness and somewhat serene environment that existed in the last few years of anarchy, I believe Somalia will see an early 90's relapse into severe fratricide. This invasion has caused tremendous damage in both monetary as well as human value. Some groups are perceived to have benefited, even among clans, and others are perceived, or very apparently I should say, to have suffered and victimized. People will be wanting to settle scores. It is my belief that the only thing keeping the ocean waves calm are the presence of armed, somewhat impartial, foreign troops. Because of their presence, there are not any possibilities of clan wars ensuing and because of an inability of one group to dictate the affairs of others through the barrel of the gun, dialogue and communication are paramount as forms of problem solving. It is my sincere hope Somalis take advantage of the situation presented to them to reconcile and explore the reasons that led to this point and which has kept their nation lawless and anarchic for more then a decade. Only then, I believe, we should unite towards our historical common enemy and demand, and even fight, to have total control over our destiny again. Disunited Somalis in combination with a lack of a fair playing field to "lafo-gur", so to say, will only sadly transport us back to what we have been accustomed to for the last 16 years. It strikes me as bewildering how some can cheer lead to regress back to such a dark time.

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown: quote:Originally posted by N/AA: quote: Originally posted by Faarax-Brown: Dear Sh.Shareef, Please respond to the weak & the faithless.. Oh stop it right there sxb. It is ridiculous how some of us have been become ehlu-diiniyan over night and the rest of us are mujirms. War yaad ka Muslimsantahay? Adiguse yaa hubo waxaad samaysid iyo meeshaad u socotid? If we are going by stereotypes then Faraxow, based on your own contributions to this site, you strike me as a very secular sort of fella hardly a muqaawama, if we are to take a page out of Kashafa's book. Marka adeer meesha waxaa ka socoto isma oge islaan dhaan. Sheikh Sharif, alle danbigiisa ha cafiyo, nin xushmad badane wuu yahay waxna oran maayo lakin anigu waa ii kow jihaad la iclaamiyoo laga tagay. So Farax, the supposed moral superiority might work on others but not with I sxb. Ishaan kaa eegi, anigana ishaan doonayaa in layga eego. Now address the topic at hand sxb! Heh! Adeer, What i meant to say is: Weak in surrending and changing positions, faithless in the course to free the country from occupiers. I dont think you need an cimaamad for commonsense...Also, Yes one can change overnight,just ask You! Ok then apologies are in order, inaad shaqsiyan igu xadgudubtaan moodaye. Xaal qaado.