I neither care about refuting AllPuntland nor what is in your heart. I just made a simple observation.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: [QB] A colonel high on drug leading some collective uncivilized nomadic militia claiming to represent Somali armed forces? Weren't these savages doing the same thing few weeks back in nearby city? Colaada kugu fogaa adeer.

Magaalada Jilib Ee Gobalka Jubbada Dhexe oo Xasiloon Iska Horimaadkii Shalay Kadib Aug 06,2007 byKismaayo-Gedo-NN Magaalada Jilib ee gobalka Jubbada Dhexe oo shalay iska horimaad ku dhex maray ciidamada dowlada iyo maleeshiyo isbaarooyin u yiilay ayaa maanta degen kadib markii ciidamada dowlada halwgal balaaran oo ay ku sifaynayeen isbaarooyinka uu soo gabagaboobay sida uu ku waramay Col.Cabdul Xireey oo ka mid ah sarakiisha amaanka ee hawlgalkaasi hogaaminayay. Col.Cabdul xireey oo maanta ka waramayay iska horimaadkii shalay ayaa yiri"anagoo haysano amar kasoo baxay wasaarada Gashaandhiga ee dowlada Federaalka ku meel gaarka ah ayaan bilownay halgal burcad sifayn ah oo aan ka fulinay magaalda Jilib oo kooxo burcad ah ay caadaysteen inay isbaarooyin dhigtaan dhibaato badana ku hayay isku socodka gadiidka,ganacsiga ee magaalooyinka kismaanyo iyo Xamar". Mana jiraan shaqsiyaad iyo qabiilooyin ay ciidamada dowlada raadsanayaan isla markaana wax loo dhimay ayuu hadlkiisa sii raaciyay. Hadalka Col.Xireey ayaa ku soo beegmayo maalin un kadib markii ciidamo uu hogaaminayay uu iska horimaad ku dhex maray magaalada Jilib kaasoo galaaftay nolosha saddex ruux, halka tiro kalana ay ku dhaawacmeen. Wixii arrimahaasi kasoo kordha kala soco Gedonet. Kismaayo-Gedo-NN

Che waa ka xaaraan, xaalku waxuu garay la dhiibo kooda wax xumaan ah geysto.

Duke- Cumar tried to level with you but he has not debated with you as long as I have and does not understand your usual debating patterns. Shabelle did not say anything contrary to Hiiraan. Shabelle interviewed the Jilib head who said one thing and they also interviewed Col Xiirey (whose comments you purposely ignored) as saying the governor is powerless and without a portfolio and it it tribal militias, who with his silent support, have made a habit out of the checkpoints and harm to travelers they are pursuing. Yet at the beginning you brought Onkod (a surprise) to say the anti-checkpoint crowd was defeated and after proven wrong to say they looted after kicking out the checkpoint holders. You are joke my friend but then again that does not surprise anyone around here. From the WFP's own mouth to sites such as HornAfrik, Jilib has reached a point where something needed to be done. The most famous event there recently concerning the checkpoint, is of course, the striping of Afgaduud of everything he had after his run from Buulogaduud..

Recent travel from Mogadishu to Kismaayo had been the one of the worst since the starting of the civil war. Checkpoints and armed militiamen had littered the place harming and stealing from travelers particularly in the Xaram area. This will not be happening anymore as the place has been cleaned of checkpoints and armed militiamen. HornAfrik recently wrote this article about the dangers of traveling between Kismaayo and Mogadishu; Wadooyinka isku xiran Muqdisho Magaalada Kismaayo ee gobolka J/hoose oo falal amaan daro ay ka jiraan. Mogadishu,3 August 2007 (HornAfrik Media) Qaar ka mid ah darawalada gaadiidka wada ee ka shaqeeya inta u dhaxaysa Magaalada Muqdisho iyo Magaalada Kismaayo e xarunta gobolka J.hoose ayaa cabasho xoogan ka muujinayo dhac iyo kufsi loo gaysto dadka rakaabka ah. Qaar ka mid ah darawalada gaadiidka rakaabka qaada ayaa waxaa iminka ay muujinaya xabashadii ugu ba.nayd ee ku aadan dhac iyo boob oo ay wehliyaan haweenka oo la iska xoogo oo ay gaysanayaan burcad jidka isbaaro dhigata. Mid ka mid ah darawalada ayaa sheegay in dhibaatada kugu badan ee ay u gaystaan buracaasi ay tahay iyaga oo iska xooga haweenka ragana jirdila oo dharka ka bixiya ismarkaana ka qaata wax allaale wixii hanti ah oo ay wataan. Ilaa iminka ma muuqdaan dadaalo ay muujinayaan Mas’uuliyiinta dowladda fadaraalka soomaaliya iyo ciidamada dowlada si wax looga qabto dhibaatada ay ku hataan buracada isbaarooyinka dhigta inta u dhaxaysa xamar iyo j/hoose Waxaana sidoo kale mudooyinkii ugu dambeeyey soo baxayey dhibaatada dadka rakaabka ah ka soo gaaraysa burcada jidadka u gasha. Source The campaign to clean the place of checkpoints is a success: Somalia: Clan Fighting Kills Five in Southern Somalia Shabelle Media Network (Mogadishu) 5 August 2007 Posted to the web 5 August 2007 Mogadishu At least five people have been killed and a dozen more has been wounded after two clan militias clashed in Jilib district, about 380 kilometers south of the Somali capital, Mogadishu. Residents said the fighting which has started last night has been ongoing on Sunday as both militias using heavy weaponries were facing off in the town. Col. Abdul Hirey, the leader of heavily armed militiamen reportedly from Kismayu, 500 KM south of Mogadishu, told Shabelle by the phone that the he was leading the government troops. "I am leading Somalia's armed forces. We are from the third brigade in Kismayu and we are fighting a group of armed robbers based in Jilib. Every Somali person knows that the local militias have been notorious for armed robbery, rape and killing, so we decided to crack down on them," he said. He said five people were killed from both sides, accusing the government official in the town of being inactive, threatening that the fighting will last until "we secure Jilib and the surrounding areas." Meanwhile the chairman of Jilib, Dahir Dooro, told Shabelle that the gun battle was taking place between two clan militias. "The situation is calm now and there are elders from both clans trying to establish peace talks between them," he said. Dooro said he was hopeful that mediation will bring solution to the fighting.

I do not know about banning but clearly it is time for him to go as moderator. I do not know what judge is forgiven for breaking the law.

Sour grapes Mr. Moderator. You have been bested for you to resort to catty immaturity is not duly unexpected. I am aware I have written some names that would normally compromise the rules and regulations of the forum but because you, the moderator, had opened up that pandora's box I wanted to make sure you did not "just" realize what your job description entails and look for an opportunity to violate my posting rights. For reference purposes, I have taken a print view of where you had opened up the pandora's box (which was not edited nor erased for two days now): I sent it privately to you because of the general respect I have for you as a forummer. I did not think it necessarily to air your hypocrisy for all to see. That you felt it necessary to respond to me publicly is telling in light of the direction the debate has taken. Other than that, do carry on I am all ears.

In fact it was because this group of Somalis, that our Miskiin says were brought by Siad Barre, that was the reason Britain gave Jubbaland to the Italians. I have already mentioned this before on this forum but I did not have the necessary documentation. According to that source I was able to find it. George L. Simpson, Jr. writes: "More importantly, this inability to control the ******* illustrated just how little control the colonial state exercised on the northeast frontier. This example of Somali resistance certainly would make the British think twice about imposing their dictates in the northeast for some years to come. Indeed, the presence of so-called recalcitrant Somalis there had much to do with the nature of the cession of Jubaland to Italy in 1925

I bring factual sources written by the colonialists and it is "Siad Barre's revision" yet one brings a childish and rather simplistic generalization that anyone could have drawn simply by hearing "Northern pastoral" clans as opposed to "southern agricultural" groups. Again, here is a direct source from a first person exploration in that area in the early 1910's by the same people who drew that map: First-person account Exploration Also, here is a letter that was written by a British minister in which they wanted to deal with Italy whereby they could trade British Somaliland and the "******* Country" (the name they knew as Jubbaland) in exchange for concessions from Italy (this is all for reference purposes): "Letter from Wilfred Thesiger British Legation, Addis Ababa, October 11th, 1917 to General Sir R. Wingate. My dear General, Addis Ababa October llth, 1917 Your letter of the 25th April and mine of the 16th May last concerning the future of Abyssinia and any possible arrangements with Italy and France. In that correspondence we discussed the various combinations possible with Italy, basing our considerations on the necessity of eliminating French influence by the acquisition of Jibuti without any attempt to establish some form of stable Government in Abyssinia must be impossible. As I mentioned in my letter it is hopeless to expect any good result so long as three powers have the right of interference in Abyssinian affairs, altough cooperation between two governments might be possible. It is very certain that after every effort will be made to clear up contentious questions between us and our present allies, and it has struck me that a fourth His Excellency General Sir Reginald Wingate Governor General of the Sudan. GCB, GCVO, KCMG, DSO, etc. etc.solution might be possible in regards to Abyssinia and Italy which like the other three mentioned in my letter of the 16th May, is based on the primary necessity of acquiring Jibuti without which the whole of the presnt discussion falls to the ground. Briefly stated the fourth proposition would include the cession of the Sudand of Eritrea in return for British Somaliland, French Somaliland and the ******* country, and a protectorate over the whole of Abyssinia. Italy, in return for this, must guarantee to the Sudan all rights over the waters of Tana and the eventual reversion to the Sudan of the four provinces of Gojjam, Walege, Jimma and Kaffs, which are vital to her future prosperity and will then assume all responsibility for the future government of this country. As you mentioned in your letter of the 25th April. "This telegram (of the 27th March) made it clear that His Majesty's Government were anxious arises whether, as regards our future relations with Italy, it would not pay us to make this concession as generous as possible as long as this generosity could be made compatible with thesafeguarding of the interests of each of our Colonies as border on Abyssinia." Source "Siad Barre's revision". How original.

Originally posted by Juje: quote:Originally posted by HornAfrique: Juje, ninka siyaasadiisa kasoo horjeedso lakin shaqsiga wax kaa quseeyaanan jirin. ***** Biixi has not said anything Qeybdiid does not say on day to day bases yet I have yet to witness saying anything remotely close about his personal affairs. With that said, Biixi hurdadiisa haysaga laabto meesha wax lagu haayo ayaanan jirin! Xashaa..! Wa markayagi...! Saxiib hadey kaga ficantahey....Biixi wa alkooliste Illah ka furtey oo weliba nacalladeysan...C/qeybdiidna wuu ka daran yahey... haye, maxaad kale oo heysa? Hadaad isla meel marisay wax kalaan kugu haysto majirto. Lakin wax kale lagaa ogolaan maayo.

Juje, ninka siyaasadiisa kasoo horjeedso lakin shaqsiga wax kaa quseeyaanan jirin. ***** Biixi has not said anything Qeybdiid does not say on day to day bases yet I have yet to witness saying anything remotely close about his personal affairs. With that said, Biixi hurdadiisa haysaga laabto meesha wax lagu haayo ayaanan jirin!

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: MMA, Amreally suprised that they had Garaads in the riverine areas. Dabshid "Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh" while waving that banner, a lot of innocent Somalis lost their land to those saying "Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh" who were engaged programs to replace those native peoples. Horn, I have learned that the "SNF" has made an enemy out of the "SPM", "RRA" and southern puntlanders in jubaland. Do you think this can be sustained? Intriguingly Naxar, the only important enough to document moving of people that Siad Barre had ever done concerned primarily the people that you claim, those from Sool. From the farms of Sablaale to Kismaayo, refugees from the dabo-dheer drought were airlifted from Sool, Bari, and Nugaal to wealthy farming lands of Somalia. Yet their products are the ones who stress today that reer Gedo were brought to that land by Siad Barre or that they have no rights to be in Kismaayo because "they came post-civil war". As for SPM and RRA, both were allied to the USC in 1991 and participated in the fighting in Gedo. I will leave you with that.

Well some things are overlooked because of the chaos in some places, but really Duke no government had anything to do with this.

Duke, you insult Gedo's economy yet even at its worst era one source, Kenneth Menkhaus, who is the author of Somalia's report in the UNDP Human Index (the one that measures development) said this: Some of the trade with neighbouring Ethiopia and Kenya takes the form of recorded trade via official crossing-points at Belet Hawa and El Waq on the border with Kenya and at Dolo on the border with Ethiopia. Considerable unofficial trade is also engaged in across the borders with both Kenya and Ethiopia. Extensive small trading goes on in all towns and villages as well. Kenneth Menkhaus, Assistant Professor at Davidson College/UNDOS consultant, considered the Gedo region's economy to be in reasonably good shape and described trade in the region as "booming". Traders in Gedo made more profit than, for instance, those in Hargeisa, in north-western Somalia (Somaliland). He pointed out that the Gedo region was a centre for brisk trading between Somalia and Kenya or Ethiopia. Large quantities of goods were brought from Mogadishu to Bardera by lorry. Bardera, being the largest town in the Gedo region, formed the centre of that trade, with active flows of funds both from abroad and to and from Mogadishu. Kenneth Menkhaus explained that the vast bulk of the capital built up in Bardera was channelled back to Mogadishu in order to bring in further goods from Mogadishu (and Merka). He regarded this as a clear sign of economic health, since the money remained in Somalia, while also pointing to his own surprise how little capital there actually was in the Gedo region. Virtually all capital had left the area, with the lack of capital plain to see, not least in Luuq. Kenneth Menkhaus reported people in Luuq to be poor, with hardly any money in circulation. He made it clear that the group of business people in possession of any sizeable trading capital was very small. He also regarded the Small Loan Fund (SLF) scheme run by the Somalia Rehabilitation Project (SRP) as very important for Gedo's economy. The vast majority of imported goods in Gedo come from Mogadishu, making the state of the roads and the security of Gedo's neighbouring regions vitally important if trade is to continue. While in Luuq, the delegation visited a transhipment centre for imported goods from Mogadishu. The centre contained a number of trucks from Mogadishu, from which goods were transferred to what were referred to as "******* trucks". These then took goods on to destinations in Gedo. Luuq District Council reported that it had begun taxing trade in the area. Goods from Mogadishu and livestock transactions were taxed, with the tax revenue being used for purposes including police pay. Because of the instability, there was no investing in Gedo which accounted for the lack of visible capital despite the intense trading but nevertheless things have been changing and will continue to change.

Originally posted by The Duke: I must give it to MMA, he has a more consistant argument which he stood by from the beggining. No one doubts that these two groups live in the region. However the claims of brother Horn that they make up 90% of the population seem quite laughable and without merit. So far MMA has the upper hand. Keep the info coming we are learning much. As for the personal issues, it only adds sauce to the dish that is SOL. But lets not get carried away. How ridiculous. Heedhe berigaad Xiin kula dagaali jirtay Kismaayo topics ileen nabad jacayl maahayne reerka waxaad ka uruinaysay kalsooni for adeero's administration dheh. Haatane maadaama ay dhacday kala jabin dee caadi un yaad seeftaadi qarsoonayd ula soo baxday. Meesha waxba laguma hayo sxb. The man is fathoming over a second person account with holes the size of the ozone layer. The overwhelming majority of the sources are from Mandeera. Infact the translators, guides, etc are all from Mandeera which is where they probably, in their Western ignorance of the delicate tribal balances of the Somalis, thought they might be able to find impartial, objective sources. The positions of the men they used sufficed enough to trust them but alas a Somali will never shrug off that which continues to plague our people! For example, the Bardere information is gleaned form a souce called Cabdullahi Sheikh Mohammed of the of the UNOPS National Professional Project Personnel, Mandera who says, among other things; Abdullahi Sheikh Mohamed, of the UNOPS/SRP, regarded that seizure of power as the culmination of a long-term strategy by the President at the time, Siad Barre, with the Gedo region having been established back in 1974 in order to create a regional base for the ******* clans. Before we even establish why Gedo was created (which was the same reason Awdal, Sool, Galgaduud, etc were created which was for better administrative purposes), it is important to note that it was this man (the same one talking like this) that arranged everything for them including being the source of Miskiin's famous "Bardera was settled by [add specific sub-clans of Bay no one would know]...": The United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS)/Somali Rehabilitation Programme (SRP) and the UNDP, Somalia, provided the mission with logistical support during its stay in Gedo. They arranged the delegation's flights and other transport in the Gedo region and helped fix up its meetings with de facto authorities in Gedo. In its note on the Gedo region, the UNPOS states that , before civil war broke out in 1990, Bardera was mainly the homeland of various [native] clans: [shaatigaduud's clan; Xaabsade's clan; Fowsiyo Max'ed Sheekh's clan; Shariif Xasan's clan, etc, are listed.]. Written by the same tribally motivated Abdullahi whom, because of his position as head of UNPOS Mandeera, the unaware Westerners did not suspect. It is ridiculous for me to continue to argue about a compromised piece of research when there are maps and direct historical accounts dating from over centuries ago (one would think the mythical sultanates of Luuq and such would have once been recorded). Again, sxb this is not an issue worthy of debate, I will leave you with this map from 1911: Intaas ku raaga kuna noolaada!

Originally posted by Jimcaale: ^What’s with the hate man? You do realize we have come a long way. We’ve carried out the “first punishment” to settle two hostile clans. Our leader brought medical equipment to the needy hospital. We’ve successfully completed a seminar to train women on breastfeeding and offered rewards for completing the seminar. What more could we have done? Morgan would have never brought such success to Kismaayo populace. We could have accomplished more had it not been Yeey and the Courts of attacking us. Our nomadic geeljire fierce fighters are ready to defend the city residents at any cost. Jailing our social & political leaders abroad won't stop our geeljire to defend our freedom to rule and ownership of our forefather's land. As for the ownership of Kismaayo, I'm sure you'll find a detailed history of our traditional inhabitance in Jubooyinka on Beesh Blog from 1500 - 2007. That link is found in Beesha's homepage on the world wide web. Back to the topic. Please do continue to shed light on the history of Gedo region. Alore Jimcaalena ma fogeyn, why does that not surprise me.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^^If those who claim to hold the city represent your clan and its interest, one thing is certain, and that is your qabil is stronger than mine. Yours is bold and daring while mine is distinctively timorous and quite weak. Yours have thousands, as you put it, of battle-hardened fighting force while mine has noticeable meager resources. Fame never hit us, Horn--ow, because of a fierce fights we put up---ours have no genuine claim on ferocity…we are the kind that collapses under the gentle touch. ^^Intaa ku seexo caawa adeer ! I know it feels good, kind of fills up your ego with clannish pride! Pity, ma aanan arag intaanan seexan.

^^^Twice the fella above me has provided the ammo for my point. Maxaakiim gabaad ma le. The two men you have insulted the most in recent times concerning Kismaayo were both two men who supported the ICU against Barre. To refresh your memory or have links to Kismaayo, ask around how much money the same Taano you insulted just because of his clan origins paid to bring together the clan and the ICU. Yet today you insult him because he gave Afgaduud and the innocent hoodwinked you boys from Bari the boot and a unforgettable introduction into the real world. Never pick a fight with a battle-hardened geeljire as an innocent kaluumayste!. Also, the position of the clan in Kismaayo manifested itself in the administration set up by the same ICU you resort to nowadays in which most of the key positions, among them mayor of the city, were given to the clan. Maxaakiim kaa shaqayn wayde, outright qabyaaladne ku meel marin wayde. Adigu un wax kale iska soo xul ....

La kala dhaqay marka. ^^A good example of the character of the Somali; hadal aan afka baarkiis dhaafin until we get to the nitty gritty.

Kismaayo maanta yaa sheekada kusoo daro, hala kala fara dhaqdee.

Dhubad, dagaaladii sokeeye ka hor gobolka Galgaduud magaalooyinka ugu weyn waxay ahaayeen kuwa ugu fac weyn sida Dhuusamareeb, Ceelbuur, iyo Balanbale. Maanta Guri-ceel oo shalaytoole ahayd tuulo hoos timaado Balanbale iyo Caabudwaaq oo aanba galabsan in lagu daro meelaha uu maro jidka waqooyi iyo koonfur isku xigo baa ugu wayn! Caabudwaaq heer maanta waxay maraysaa laga yaabo inay ka jiidato Dhuusamareeb magaala madaxda gobolka.

Labaduba dhaxeeyaan lakin reer Balanbalaan ahay asaliyan. Ballo kuwaasi noogama horayn, taankiyadii Axmaarada laga gubay ilaa iyo hada sidaa bay u daadsanyihiin..magaaladiine waa siday u burburiyeen, dhagaxaan ayaan mel walba miiran, shacabkiine waa siday Xamar u aadeen ama Caabudwaaq u guureen. Balanbale haday kasoo raaynaysaa, berri dhawaydne isbitaal heer degmo ah yaa loo dhisay. Guriceel sidee baad u tagtay adigoon Balanbale tagin? Sow ma ogid dhagaxa Guri-ceel laga soo tuuso inuu Balanbale ku dhaco

Intriguingly, I have brought an argument based on historical evidence and have been able to back it up but the other side seems to be gulping for oxygen like a water deprived fish!