Originally posted by Gediid: I blv there was no opposition from the USC up until they reached Afgoye.The reason I blv had something to do with infighting within the USC and as such the easy march from the kenyan border all the way to Afgoye.Siads forces had painted their cars with ruug cadaagi so rogal celi and after doing the Abdi Bile back to kenya waxa loogu qorey raamsadaa helay Another Burco-historian. USC infighting started in 1994. Smooth the rough edges in your Burco-based history. You watch the same video posted in this topic and you can clearly hear the number of clans participating...both north and south Mogadishu, in other words a united USC. The Afgooye meet was not that far from Dagaalki Araare.

Suldaan- Your assumption is that a national army existed by that point. No, the national army had disintegrated along clan lines by 1990. Again your understanding of the history is poor. The first part of the civil war was "Muslim iyo M********n". What if I told you my very house was being ired upon by my very neighbors 6 months before the official overthrow? This is what 1991 in Mogadishu was. Conventional fighting did not exist but mere urban fighting similar to the one going on in Mogadishu now. Even with a unified and professional Ethiopian army, the native population will continue to have the upper hand. Now look at 1991 and see a mere civilian sub-clan taking the brunt of all grievances against the state in a city and region overwhelming populated by the people who held the grievances. No shame in saying, they opted to withdraw, grouped in a conventional manner, counter-attacked successfully but were defeated by an alliance of most of the southern Somali population. The shame would have been in allowing their own home regions to be occupied, and that is something they cannot be accused of.

Originally posted by Suldaanka: But let me ask you, after being humiliated and defeated, why was Siyad Barre still adamant to coming back to Mogadishu? I've seen a video recorded somewhere near the Kenyan border where he was talking like he would rebel against the rebelion and mount a counter attack of some sort. He actually did. Perhaps it is your poor knowledge of anywhere south of Burco but he did mount a counter-attack and came to mere km of Mogadishu. It was at Afgooye where a coalition of USC, RRA, and the SPM of Cumar Jees (whose defection to the USC side was not known then) stopped his momentum and forced him to retreat back to the border, forcing him into exile, with most of Gedo region being occupied for a brief period of time. SNF forces in May this year reached as far as Afgooye, only 30 kilometres away from Mogadishu. They were defeated and driven back up to Gedo region by USC forces lead by general Aydiid. Later on during the summer Aydiid's forces entered into a confederation with the ******* forces of the SPM, under the leadership of Source and In South- westernmost Somalia the ******* clan in the organisation called SNF entertained clear plans to play a role in the politics of Somalia. During may this year motorized infantry reached as far as Afgoye, 30 kilometres outside Mogadishu. Source After the SNF regroup at the border, here is Aydiid's (alle hau naxariisto) flight from Gedo region. SNF, a faction loyal to Somalia's exdictator Mohamed Siyad Barre, have following several days of sporadic fighting taken control over the town Baardheere. Baardheere has functioned as the headquarters for the leader of the USC, general Aydiid, who is now reported to have fled to Mogadishu. Source So you see Suldaan, despite your clear objectives, the civil war did not start and end in Siad Barre (alle hau naxariisto) departing from Mogadishu. That was merely a point in history. Jimcaale- You have been watching too many American election pundit shows.

James, what are your sources? Many times you mention "accounts from the times". What and where can we find these accounts?

Adiguna "Horn" markaad aragtid Barre Hiiraale iyo Kismaayaad urisaa. Forgoodnessake raganimo yeelo ee wax iskula har adiguna. Miskiin's narcissistic blabber hungaaco ayaay dadka ka keentaa and so does your false demeanor. You went from Ducaqabe to Jimcaale so you can start internet clan squabbles, many in which Miskiin participated on your side, and now you come here with a replica of that false self-righteousness. Mayhaps it is because you now accept the reality on the ground, but for whatever reason let us hope with the change of location, came a real change of personality.

Abdiqasim '09.

Here comes the falsely self-righteous narcissistic blabber. Such blabber would have merit if (1.) it was not politically motivated attack and (2.) the author did not exemplify all that he vilified. Knowing the individual's history, clearly the mere mention of the acronym "RRA" triggered this wave of verbal diarrhea. Dismissed.

Suldaan- Hadafka USC waligeyd sharaf maysan lahayn! The most anti-state elements were present-day Puntlanders. Even before your own folk, they were in the bush rebelling to install a 60's era administration overran by their sub-clannish groups. If the USC was a legitimate anti-state rebel group, they would not have went after innocent civilians of Puntland-origin and others who were anti-state even before them while men such as Cabdullahi Caddow, Cabdiqasim Salaad, and Kulmiye Afrax walked free! It was designed to ethnically cleanse a whole Somali make-up from the capital they were a minority in irrespective of their support of the state or not. Get your facts right adeer...although one admits your position is not very surprising considering the clannish animosities amongst SOmalis.

Originally posted by Suldaanka: Dagaalkii Koonfurta Somaliya markaa ayuu sharaf lahaa. At least, a united rebel group was chasing a toppled dictator out of the country. But, markii USC isku soo jeedsatay ee jabhadii kale isku jeedsadeen ee meeshi qasantay ayuu sharaftii beelay oo wax laga yaxyaxo noqday. Clap, clap and the fellow from Dunbuluq is happy to see USC chasing "Fa-qashti". Surprising? The thing is Suldaan-oow, southern Somalis have long moved and passed on, many of those people have shook hands with the people they were fighting then. Ragu waa ay lagdamaan, gacmahana way isa saaraan. Raganimo weeye. Maxaad adinku la calaacashiin marka?

Originally posted by AYOUB: but the allegation against the deceitful use of "wadaads" by their opponents is a serious one indeed. Key word sxb, "allegation". What makes you think any Somali "jabhad" in the early 90's had respect for life, morality, and religion? Why would the Caydiid (alle hau naxariisto) whose policy was to make any militia member of his high on a concoction of khaat and hashiish have had respect for religion? Teeda kale, watch the video correctly. Several individuals are interviewed and everyone one of them relays the battle differently, some do it with much bravado and others with modesty. Some say "waa dhawr", and then others say "hawdka bay ku jireen ee lama qiyaasi karo", etc. This is the importance of different perspective.

This is the battle of Araare. Somalis know it as "Dagaalki buundada Araare". Synopsis: Where most of the Gedo-origin folks in Mogadishu made way to Gedo, most of the Puntland-origin folks escaped for the most nearest safety-zone, i.e Kismaayo. Morgan then organized a small militia of sorts from among those internal refugees and it is they who were involved in this chapter of the civil war. Sadly they would be out-gunned, and out-manned and Araare took the form of a massacre but it opened up the chapter in which an army led by a Col Afgabdeedle came from Baardheere and would chase all those you see in the video to Baali-doogle. This took place much before the big meet in Afgooye that saw the SNF surrounded from the back by the RRA and the front from by the USC forcing them to retreat to the border areas. Incidentally, the repercussions of this battle was such that the security of Kismaayo came to be seen as tied with the security of Gedo and became the precursor of SNF-folk leadership over that city and the surrounding countryside.

Faallo:Mustaqbalka Mugdiga Ah Ee Somaaliya:By Dr.Cabdirizaq Faarax Cali (Taano) Mar 21,2008 by Kismaayo-GEDO-NN Markaad eegto Kafadaha faraha badan ee la rabo in ay simmaan si xaaladda Soomaaliya ay u degto, waxaa kuu muuqanaysa Waddo mugdi ah oo iftiinkeedu fog yahay. Markaad ka bilowdo labada kafadood ee Maraykanka iyo Midowga Yurub oo mid waliba rabto in uu ka dhismo Soomaaliya Maamul ay raad xoog leh ku leeyihiin taas oo dhalisa tii danteeda meesha ka arki waydaa in ay burburiso isku dayga tan kale. Hadaad ku xijiso saamaynta dowladaha Carabta oo aan lahayn xoogga kuwa hore laakiin ah Kafad jirta oo dhinac ka saran Miisaanada kala duwan ee la rabo in ay dheelli tirmaan si nidaam loo helo. Markaad milicsato Kafadaha ay kala saaranyihiin dowladaha dariska la ah Soomaaliya oo laftigoodu ku kala xoog badan qaabka saamayntooda iyo waliba is waafajinta danta gaarka ah ee dowladdaas dariska nala ah ay leedahay iyo danta larabo in ay fuliso ee ay leeyihiin ama bah-wadaagta ay ku yihiin quwadaha haga adduunka, kuwaas oo dowladaha dariska nala ah aysa uga maarmin in ay ka helaan dhaqaale, qalab ciidan, khibrad ciidan iyo ruqsad guud oo ay ku banaysato in ay fuliso labada danood ee isi saaran. Markaad eegto boqolaalka kafadood ee ay kala saaranyihiin rag farabadan oo Soomaali ah, saamayn xoogganna ku leh gudaha Soomaaliya, mid Ciidan, mid Siyaasadeed iyo mid Qabiil intaba. Kuwaas oo aan wax arxan ah aan u galayn danta guud, wax kasta oo la gaarilahaana ka hor imaanaya si uu u helo dan yar oo shakhsi ah. Markaad sii humaagsato kala fogaanshaha Soomaali waynta ba’day, sida ay u garab marayaan wadada badbaadada, dhaga fudaydka ay u hayaan Hoggaamiye-kooxeedyada ku dhaga nugaylsada Tol-beelayda, talo la’aanta iyo waliba Boholaha lagu sii dhacayo oo Boholba Bohol looga sii gudbayo qofkeenna noogu miyir roon waxaa u muuqanaya mustaqbal mugdi ah iyo rajo la’aan ka garasha gaarista Qaranimo Soomaaliyeed oo lugaheeda ku taagan. Marar badan ayaan kaligay dhafoorada qabsadaa, waxaan is waydiiyaa su’aasha ah “MAXAA NOO TALAA”?, talada ayaan laba-laba isku saaraa, mahelo meel aan ku gunto, markaan ugu roonaa alla bari baan u istaagay, “ Ilaahow SYL noo soo noolee” ayaan isku seexiyey si aan mowduuca joogsi ugu yeelo. Dr.C/Risaaq Faarax Cali(Taano)

Originally posted by -Serenity-: I agree with Dabshid . The Beled-Xaawo or the Boorama...or is this the case of Serenity saying "you don't need to ask". p.s. I agree, women from Boorama are hot.

Laas Caanood.

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ You're bloody paranoid, that's what you are. Paranoid! And here I thought I was trying to make you feel sharp .

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ You see where this is heading, don't you? The man may be from your clan but your clan practices icky customs. I guessed that a long time ago.

Originally posted by GJ_Goate: I don't believe that the FutUH aL Habasha or any other medieval text names the clan of Imam AHmad or Nur ibn Mujahid? So where did you get that infro from Mr Horn! That is assuming if you have read all the medieval texts that exist. Listen I am not here to debate anyone's clan. However, history is history and if you need sources for the information, they are listed in the posted article itself. As for the origins of the article, the blog I got it off credits the "Dictionary of African Historical Biography (Vol. 1)" which is a volume that exists according to a quick google search and one that I am sure you can lay your hands on if you desire. Geeljire, you seem to be one of the most obtuse individuals I have encountered in this forum. You said marrying the widow of your uncle is "haram". It is not, you made a false claim. What else are you after? Is it cultural? Well it is. The article I posted speaks of the Emir of Harrar, marrying the widow of his late uncle, and there are many instances where men have married the widow of their uncle. One such famous case is the Khaliif Cumar ibn Qaddaab whose mother was wedded by his older cousin after the death of his father. The cousin married the widow of his late uncle. Full stop. As I have said before, "icky" is a product of one's environment. Now what else is there to argue about that you see the need to keep coming back for more?

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: quote:Originally posted by Jimcaale: lol@Faarax. Qarxis.com quote: Che, adeer adiguna goormaa kitaabka kuugu danbayse? "Is it allowed diiniyan" ma wax da'aada dadka la waydiiyo baa? Jimcaale, clearly you haven't followed the conversation starting with the article itself. That edit button cancels any replies. LoooooooooooooooL...War Horn, it was simple yes or no answer. Spooning with your uncle's widow is disturbing, atleast to me. Again, individuals are products of their environment. In the 1500's, as well as even today, such feminist ideals as love and "icky" were overshadowed by culturally dictated norms to attain economic, political, and social survival. It is why even today dumaal is a form of social security in the country. Forget such an "icky" thought as marrying your uncle's widow, but how many of you Western-bred young lads would marry your brother's widow? I daresay non and only because you are a product of your environment. In this case the West. Things are a lot different back home you see.

Originally posted by Geel_jire: ^ Classic after "The Somali culture is today lost on the diaspora youth." and "clearly the young man is confused." I'm the troll ? Adeer we had two contentions. 1. Is this Islamically applicable? Answer: Yes, in both cases either a widow or divorced. 2. Is this part of Somali culture? Answer: Yes, but traditionally only if widowed under the concept of dumaal. To lengthen the argument beyond the desired scope is to willfully be a troll.

Geeljire, if being a troll is more to your liking, it's your prerogative.

Waa hagaag. It is because it seemed belittling that I edited.

The daliil has been posted. Legal verdict is that one is allowed to marry an uncle's divorced or widowed wife. How one judges "icky" is a product of one's environment and not necessarily a universal concept. Therefore, your opinion is yours to formulate.

Farax, way to go quoting when I edited extensively. As for the "back up", there is no shame in asking that. In fact, the first thing that should come out of your mouth when you hear a religious claim is "where is the daliil" (evidence). Now what needs backing up? That you can or cannot marry your uncle's wife if divorced and/or deceased? Suuratul Nisaa, verses 22 to 23 says: "And marry not women whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; indeed it was shameful and most hateful, and an evil way. Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your foster mother who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sisters, your wives' mothers, your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have go in - but there is no sin on you if you have not gone in them (to marry their daughters), - the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins, and two sisters in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed; verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Those are to whom you are a mahram and cannot marry. Your uncle's wife, if she becomes divorced or a widow is legal for you to marry.

Ngonge, clearly the young man is confused. Geeljire, I encourage you to pick up the Qur'an and try to understand before making claims. Those you are not allowed to marry are called the "mahram" and through marriage, those that become a "mahram" to a woman are the father-in-law (or step-father), the son-in-law, and the step-son. These along with the blood-relation mahram are the individuals a woman would not be allowed to marry. The nephew of a husband is not a "mahram" to a woman so there is no reason why marriage, or dumaal in this case, is not applicable. The only stipulation is that you must wait the prescribed waiting period to make sure the woman is not carrying a child. This is why you must be sure what you are talking about when it comes to diinta.

Originally posted by Geel_jire: ^ I've hear dumaal in the sense i.e marrying your brothers,cousins widow and it does make sense. I have never encountered a man who married his uncles widow..... what dhaqan is that ? Somali dhaqan, take this as an educational opportunity.