Shiekh Sharif, I am afraid, achieved naught but to cause a small melee of discord among the party he sought to represent. He neither had the capacity to deal on behalf of the armed resistance in Somalia, who altogether labeled the group in Eritrea as "cilmaani" nor does he now enjoy the legitimacy to represent the teeth-less Alliance in Eritrea. Bal maxaa daarayay Shiiqa? The Bush administration is essentially a lame-duck administration. Wasting time on Somalia is the least of their worries and the U.N moves not a finger towards "terrorist" hot spots, which the naming of Al Shabaab as a terrorist group was supposed to garner for Somalia. The Shiiq must understand the lines are drawn internally and he seemed to have criscrossed on a very pivotal point; addressing negotiation with the presence of Ethiopian troops in Somali Republic soil. What was he thinking? Even the TFG's mandate is coming close to an end and will not even have the wretched symbolic legitimacy it holds now. Yaa laga dhaadhacsiiyey ayuu la heshiin?

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: Puts the Ethiopians aside That's the point. I can't put the Ethiopians aside. In fact, there is no way to put the Ethiopians "aside". Ah, the folly of responding to you. Good day sir.

Adeer, I said Somali fratricide...how can that then be used in a situation where lines are divided between Somalis and Ethiopian soldiers? Then again, even people of your political position do not take you seriously.

Adeer I didn't know Xabashi have become Somalis in the past couple years?

In response to those who advocated for a fantasy "peace" meeting in Djbouti, I responded: Current Somalia Players: -The U.S.A -Ethiopia -Al-Shabaab. The notion that the TFG and the "opposition" can sit down on a issue in which they are not the prime players is really beyond laughable. Perhaps now they can see for themselves why I never mentioned TFG as a player.

Says the man who labeled the resistance nothing but surwaal gaab wareersan. Boholkaad kasoo baxday ku laabo adeer, Al Shabaab talo iyo mid toona kuugu iman maysee. You were among the few who opposed the ICU even before the beginning. While some have come to oppose them based on politics, history will not forgot you were among the few to oppose them based on their religious ideology.

Originally posted by Nephthys: quote:Originally posted by HornAfrique: Somehow I cannot imagine the prophet would have sent delegates if Medina had been caught from under him and his people were facing subjugation. This is my personal opinion after all but somehow I can't imagine the response would be similar to what you advocate. Wow, an impressive comparison to say the least! L0L. This has got to be the weakest argument you've ever offered. Is that all you have, sir? My logical brain tells me the weak argument goad is directed towards me while my rational brain tells me it is directed towards Xiin, however if it is directed at me have no misunderstanding Nephthys I never offered an argument. That tadbit was a mere side comment to Xiin evoking the prophet's name and his use of "delegates" to spread peace. I could not help but point out the situations are altogether completely different you see. Then you have people like horn afrique who's was so supportive of all the attacks these shabaabs were carrying out ruthless attacks even when civilians were killed and said weey shihiiden well are you to determine who's gonna be a shahiid or not DID I ASK TO DIE?. But when the shabaabs were approaching kismaayo oh it was all about lets talk and ilaah baan ka baryey inuu kala qabto. Now where lies your support in shabbab 100% or the buck stops at kismaayo? Check yourself adeer. I never questioned the right for the resistance to go to Kismaayo. Nay, I questioned the wisdom of trying to go there by force as did almost all of the pro-resistance nomads in this forum. Parts of the nation are under direct foreign occupation and the resources and manpowers that could be waged to continue the cycle of Somali fratricide could be better spent against the invader force. There is no need to try to go to Kismaayo by force at this time where there are no Ethiopians stationed and the people, if they are not directly supportive of the resistance, are not in arms against them. Wada hadal and rationality should take precedence over everything else in this sort of situation. If the Kismaayo group had armed themselves to directly fight against the resistance, however, with an aim to give leverage to the invader force....halagu jihaado midna yaanan laga reebin ayaan oran lahaa!

Somewhere in your reasoning I would like to see mentioned: -physical occupation of parts of a nation -complex ill-developed political situation -difference between options available to aggressor entities (such as the U.S would be) and entities shown the aggression (aggrieved party in Somalia). -etc Somehow I cannot imagine the prophet would have sent delegates if Medina had been caught from under him and his people were facing subjugation. This is my personal opinion after all but somehow I can't imagine the response would be similar to what you advocate.

C/QAASIM SALAAD XASAN: “C/llaahi Yuusuf haddii uu is-leeyahay C/qaasim ha cararo, haddii aan cararayo mar hore ayaan carari lahaa, ka mana fiicni….” Jimco, May 23, 2008(HOL): Waxaa shir jaraa’id ku qabtay gurigiisa madaxweynihii hore ee Soomaaliya C/qaasim Salaad Xasan oo shirkiisa jaraa’id uga hadlay baaritaan ay gurigiisa ku sameeyeen Ciidamo Soomaali iyo Itoobiyaan isugu jira. C/qaasim Salaad Xasan waxaa uu sheegay in ay wax laga xumaado tahay in madaxweyne C/llaahi Yuusuf, Ra’iisal Wasaarihiisa iyo Dadka Dowladda kula jira ay u hoggaansami waayaan waxa ku qoran Axdiga u degsan Dowladda Federaalka oo ah in la ixtiraamo madaxweynaha xilka ka dega, wuxuuna carrabka ku dhuftay in taasi tahay arrin uu la yaaban yahay. “C/llaahi Yuusuf, Ra’iisal Wasaarihiisa iyo Dadka Dowladda kula jira miyeysa u hoggaansameynin waxa ugu qoran Axdiga u degsan ee qeexaya in madaxweynaha xilka ka dega ay tahay in ixtiraamo oo sharaftiisa la dhowro”ayuu yiri madaxweynihii hore ee Soomaaliya C/qaasim Salaad Xasan oo sheegay in Ciidamadii gurigiisa baaray jir-dil u geysteen ilaalo uu leeyahay oo ay ka war qabaan Mas’uuliyiinta Dowladda Federaalka. “Arrintan wax looga jeedo anigu garan-maayo, C/llaahi Yuusuf haddii uu is-leeyahay C/qaasim ha cararo, haddii aan cararayo mar hore ayaan carari lahaa, ka mana fiicni 7-da Kun ee dhimatay, 25-ka kun ee dhaawacantay iyo labada Milyan ee barakacday, kuwaasi ayaaba waxaa ku jira kuwo Ahlu kheyr ah oo aniga iga wanaagsan”ayuu yiri mar kale yiri C/qaasim Salaad Xasan. Madaxweynihii hore ee TNG-da oo wejigiisa laga dheehan karay in uu aad uga xumaaday baaritaanka ay Ciidamada Dowladda Federaalka iyo kuwa Itoobiya ay gurigiisa ku sameeyeen ayaa wuxuu dhanka kale ugu baaqay shacabka Soomaaliyeed in ay Allaah u towbad keenaan, si uu dhibaatada uga dul-qaado, “Waad la socotaan markii aan Allaah barinay oo aan Roob ka tuugnay wuu na qaboojiyay, hadana si uu dhibaatada nooga dul-qaado waa in aan Allaah u towbad keennaa oo aan barinnaa”ayuu yiri C/qaasim Salaad Xasan. Wuxuu kaloo ka hadlay madaxweynihii hore ee Soomaaliya af-duubka loo geysanayo shaqaalaha samafalka u yimaada dalka Soomaaliya, wuxuuna ku baaqay in la sii daayo samafalayaal dhawaan lagu af-duubtay deegaanno ka tirsan Gobollada Jubbada Dhexe iyo Shabeelaha Hoose, isagoo sidoo kalena ku baaqay in la sii daayo Markabka u raran ganacsatada Soomaaliyeed oo dhawaan lagu af-duubtay Xeebaha Soomaaliya. Si kastab arrintu ha ahaatee, Bartamihii sanadkii hore ayay ahayd markii sidan oo kale ay guriga madaxweynihii hore baaritaan ku sameeyeen Ciidamo ka amar qaata Dowladda Federaalka Soomaaliya, inkastoo xiligaas ay C/qaasim Salaad raaligelin ugu tageen Madaxweyne C/llaahi Yuusuf iyo Ra’iisal Wasaarihii hore ee Xukuumadda Federaalka Soomaaliya Prof. Cali Maxamed Geeddi oo welibana raaligelin kadib ballanqaaday in aan mar dambe sharaftiisa meel looga dhici doonin, lana baari doonin gurigiisa. Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis), Hiiraan Online sxiis@hiiraan.com Mogadishu, Somalia

The secondary group in Jamaame has already dispersed after forcing peace between the two hostile groups there: Dhanka kale, wararka ka imaanaya magaalada Jamaame ayaa sheegaya in xoogagii shalay soo gaaray degmadaasi ay isla markiiba isaga baxeen magaalada, iyaga oo la sheegay inay dib ugu noqdeen goobahii ay markii hore ka yimaadeen. Xoogagaasi ayaa tiradoodu la sheego 180 oo ku hubeysanaa laba gaadiidka dagaalka iyo mid xamuul ah sida ay xaqiijiyeen dadka degaanka. Gedonet Again, as my update showed, the whole episode was take out of context by the usual Somali ku tiri ku teen. No organized entity exists in the Jubba Valley that can withstand the Kismaayo militia, if Allah (swt) does not say otherwise. The good Shiekh Ibraahim Shukri came, explained the objective of the groups, and in turn succeeded in getting the confidence of the Kismaayo group. The episode ceased to exist after that point.

Well the thing is Duke, while the isbaaro in Jilib are used as mechanism to rob and even rape unarmed travel ors, the ever so often isbaaro in Kismaayo is used as a political weapon. Essentially as a conduit for political force, a politico-economic embargo of sorts. It is sad but reflective of the greater Somali society in Somalia today. Even so, that is the main difference between the two. Like I told you before, there are two competeing ideologies in Kismaayo today and either group uses the isbaaro as a leverage when the other group is seen as getting their way more. This interesting article came out today backing what I have told you before: Ali said local leaders were caught up in the fight between the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) and insurgents, mostly loyal to the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC). The UIC, which was in control of much of south-central Somalia, was ousted by combined Ethiopian and TFG forces in December 2006. He said if an administration was set up and one side or the other saw it as "pro-UIC or TFG, then it is doomed before it even begins work. That is why it is taking so long to come up with one. They want to make sure that neither side is offended." IRIN This is why, I presume, the ICU and its splinter groups want to stay away from Kismaayo. Ultimately they hope a natural solution favoring them solves itself out. The possibility is certainly there. What would they gain by meddling other then giving power to the group opposing them who will try to use outside meddling to play upon clannish suspicions?

And the reports come in backing the update I gave.. Isbahaysiga dib u xureynta Somalia oo sheegay in aysan jirin wax qorshe ah oo ay ku Weerarayaan Magaalada Kismaayo. Muqdisho. 20. May .2008. (Sh.M.Network)- Isbeheeysiga Dib u Xureeynta Dalka Somalia ayaa sheegay in aysan Qorshaha Ugu jirin Weerar ay ku qaadaan Magaalada Kismaayo Ee Xarunta Gobolka J/hoose.. Shabelle Maxaakiimta Islaamka oo sheegay ineysan u qorsheysneyn xiligan weerar ay ku qaadaan magaalada Kismaayo, kana warbixiyey... Mas’uul ka tirsan saraakiisha ciidamada maxaakiimta Islaamka ee jooga degmada Jilib oo lagu magacaabo Sheekh Axmed C/raxmaan Yaxye ayaa sheegay in ujeedada ay halkaasi u tageen ay la xiriirto sidii ay dadka deegaankaas ku dhaqan gacan uga siin lahaayeen sugida amaanka, isagoo xusay in degmada Jilib ay ka mid tahay goobaha ugu amaanka xun dalka Somalia oo maalin iyo habeen walba ay kooxo maleeshiyo ah ku dhibaateyn jireen dadka musaafurka ah ee isaga goosha gobolada dalka, kuwaasoo uu sheegay in u geysan jireen falal iskugu jira dhac dil iyo kufsi , wuxuuna xusay oo kale in degmada Jilib aysan aheyn meel uu ka jiro maamul wax ka qabta dhibaatooyinkaas oo maleeshoyinkaasna ay ahaayeen kuwa sida rasmiga ah uga taliya degmada... ... ayuu yiri Sheekha oo meesha ka saaray weerar ay xiliggan la damacsan yihiin magaalada Kismaayo, wuxuuna sheegay in aysan taa u qorsheysneyn. Dayniile

Originally posted by Xoogsade: If Horn's last report is the latest on the ground, I guess I have no reason to be Euphoric. Waa dadaan meelna raacsanayn oo dantooda/dakhligooda ilaashada barre and his boys. Xoog, adeer Xamar baa gantaal Xabashi gubay ee Kismaayo miyaad sidaa la jeclaan lahayd? Maxay faa'iido u tahay aanan ka ahayn barakac iyo xasuuq shacbi ku jiraane kuwii kasoo cararay Xamar?

Already did adeer. I'm out!

Just got an update and the reality is very different than was painted. It seem as if talks are going on as a form of courtesy but the weight of the groups are not anywhere near being able to take Kismaayo or even stand against those militias in Kismaayo, if the Kismaayo boys showed hostility. It also seems as if the group in Kamsuuma and the earlier group in Jilib are two different groups who share the same objective. It was not planned but really a chance occurrence. Some of the ICU pocket in Jubbas have gotten tired of the negative effect the checkpoints in Xaramka have on passing civilians and decided to do something momentarily. Another small pocket took advantage of the cover of the Jilib operation to diffuse tension between two groups in Jamaame. Shiekh Ibraahim Shukri "Abu Zaynab" (an Afmadow fella btw Paragon) came to Kismaayo to convince the Kismaayo group, the operations are no threat to that city and to convince the Kismaayo group not to carry out any pre-emptive strikes because of misunderstanding. The state of Kismaayo was never part of the discussions. Almost all of the traditional and political leaders have been convinced and this where the puzzling "cooling down" period begun. The situation is much different than was spread by Somali ku tiri ku teen.

Duke, I have gotten an update and the reality is very different then painted on the web.

That is the thing Duke. I do not consider it a loss if Kismaayo is taken this time.

Duke, let tell me you a secret adeer. The reason why reer Gedo sweat a cold sweat and become nervous even before the action starts when this issue (Al Itihad, Islamic Courts) is involved is because usually the lines start being drawn within the clan. No other issue has the ability to fracture the unity of this group as this one does. Gedo is a witness. It was because of the fracture that occurred almost a decade ago on this single issue that they are still trying to heal internally.

Duke seems to reinvigorated.

Duke, it is not a secret that for a long time now the main argument in Kismaayo has been whether to physically join the fight or stay this position. A man named Abdirizaak Farax Taano headed the group who advocate for more involvement against the Ethiopians while Barre has presided over the group who want to stay in the status quo. Barre, of course, weighed above mostly because of his brand name but the other group is very loyal to their cause. This explains the different news reports given out with one spokesman (Hassan Dheere of Afgaduud wars) saying they are going ahead with talks while Barre seems to be, at least from your article, going ahead with a fight using his personal militias. The fight really isn't between Al Shabaab and Kismaayo, the fight seems to be a battle of ideology within Kismaayo. I, of course, am with the other side though I do hope Barre sees the light soon enough.

Duke, Barre Hiiraale is set on building Jubbaland. Perhaps those of his clansmen who see the reality for what it is will get through to him. Your article says the traditional leaders are very unhappy. Arintani ayay walaac ka muujiyeen odayaasha magaalada kismaayo waxayna la hadleen bare qudhiisa

Paragon, I said it adeer. This is not September, 2006 when many felt wronged. No one from Kismaayo to Luuq has any stomach to contemplate a fight with Al Shabaab or any other group who are seen as the few truly resisting a perceived and real occupation of the country. Gunimadaas cid ay ku duugantahay ilamaaha reerkaan. Sidaan iri xiniinyo taabasho ayaa laysku salaamay lakin wadahadal waligeedba miiska way saarnayd. I have not checked yet but something tells me the latter news report is accurate. If this is the case, however, the group in Kismaayo will no longer be seen as neutral party by Addis Ababa and it stands to be seen whether they then move away from their centrist position and join the liberation camp without any hesitation. Perhaps this was Al Shabaab's objective? In any case, it will be a good day for Somalia if things transpire as they seem. Hardship will follow but it will be worth it I daresay. I will try to get updated on the situation.

Emporer, I will not spare you any words. The fact of the matter is yes Ethiopia took out the Islamic Courts in Somalia, but what is TFG? TFG is only a figment of your and a minority's imagination adeer. You should best suit yourself to continuing posting pictures because that is all that will exist soon enough. I'm out for the day guys!

Originally posted by Xoogsade: Also, If I thought like you, I would have switched my support from the courts when they attacked and disarmed the clan militia who share family lineage with me in Muqdisho. Adiga you accused and still accuse the courts because they forced Hiiraale to abandon Kismaayo despite the courts having on their side men of your own blood. They were not motivated by clan. I admit both Barre and Qaybdiid were/are warlords. Even so Xoogsadoow, your reaction to the ICU going after Qaybdiid and my reaction to the ICU invasion of Kismaayo cannot be compared. From the start Qabydiid had been opposed to the ICU. Barre, however, and his militiaboys in Kismaayo were not. This is the same man who personally sent men and weapons to help the ICU in the battle of Galgalato where the ICU could not have overpower Maxamed Dheere and Bashiir Raage without his support. Many of them have admitted this. Dahir Aweys has admitted this and I remember posting an interview of his where he praised Barre because of this fact. It is in the archives good Xoog. Abu Mansuur, the same thing. Yet even when the ICU was largely considered a single clan dominated entity, and Barre had helped them beyond capacity to rise to power in Mogadishu, they chose to attack Kismaayo at a time when the JVA was being demolished and Seeraar was no longer welcome to the city. Clan opportunists achieved this adeer, in conjunction with masses manipulated with the Qur'an in one hand and cimaamad on their shoulders. There have been talks afterwards (the disintegration of the ICU I mean) and many of what I write has been discussed and admitted. I will never renounce my objection to the ICU in its latter time-frame adeer, and I would hope you realize the folly of comparing your support for the ouster of a Qaybdiid who prospered off of his checkpoints near the road to Afgooye to the illegitimate invasion of Kismaayo under the back religious manipulation.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: The good fellas of your clansmen are leading and in cahoots with the armed religious knights almost always, why are you so blind? You find two cousins in opposite lines here saxib, adiga midka dadka dhacaayo yaa kuu matala qabiilka, what about the good cousin of yours? Isn't he worth your unmolested support? Can you deny the fact that a good junk of your clansmen are always on the side of the courts? Dhuuso boys in Kistaa should hand over the reign of the city to their religious cousins to save the town from unnecessary violence Time is up bro for the lawless men in town. PS:This time other sources also report the same events saxib, it is not only Kismaayonews. Sheekada waa mutawaatir lol. Edited. Take it with a pinch of salt, but I consider myself on the side of Al-Shabaab no matter how hard this is for you to believe. Xoog, the fact of the matter is maxaa dagaal keeney? This is the most irritating factor in all of this. Not only are there some Court-supporting individuals in my group, as you say, but I know in reality that the majority are. I also know that a lot of them have been turned off by this recent development and probably many of them heading to try to fight the groups now have no stomach for it. Balse maxaa dagaal keenayo. Adeer nin doonaya inuu ku dharbaaxo, gacamaha u laabayn maysid. The fact of the matter is a section of the group entered Baardheere a mere two weeks ago. However, they came peacefully and told the people that their fight is with the Ethiopians forces and that their objective is cut off an Ethiopian supply line that runs through Luuq and Dollow. The townspeople said go in peace. They went to Buurdhuubo where the same thing transpired, and by today they are probably positioning themselves in various strategic places around the supply line both as saboteurs as well as sentry. That is working towards the liberation of the nation adeer. Not going gun-totting in a land where tribal sensitivities are rife. Aggression breeds aggression. That is the law of the jungle.